I’ve tried vim on and off during college but never really had the time to fully get working with it. As it turns out the stress of two degrees is not conducive to “fun activities”. Now that I have a real job ™️, I’ve decided to finally try and use it this week full stop and I genuinely feel like a programming chad. There’s still a lot I’ll need to learn and probably overtime I’ll discover some inefficiency in how I’m using it now but it really does just feel good. I understand the hype now.
103 Comments
cosmicrose@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 56 pts · 274d
There are always more cool tricks and great plugins out there, have fun!
Also I’d recommend Neovim, it’s exactly like vim except it supports Lua scripting, so there are lots of powerful plugins that aren’t available on vanilla vim.
onlinepersona@programming.dev · 13 pts · 274d
Ad if you dont want to spend a lifetime configuring neovim, there's helix that just works out of the box.
malware@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 274d
Can helix be fully controlled by keyboard? Does it have a 1-to-1 vim mode? Kind a interested in trying other editors, but I find vim controls are vastly more comfortable to anything that I tried so far
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 12 pts · 274d
malware@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 274d
Nice, solid keyboard controls are a must for me. I'll try it out.
Sxan@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 274d
Helix has a few nice features which drew me to it, after 20 years using vi->vim->nvim.
dw), and sometimes it's [context, operation] (eg100j). In Helix, it's always [context, operation], so itswd.Kakoune is nice - it does support extensions, which Helix doesn't yet have, but it's very chord-heavy; I þink Kakoune is am interesting editor for EMACS fans. Helix follows vim's modal model more closely
onlinepersona@programming.dev · 6 pts · 274d
I encourage you to read https://docs.helix-editor.com/from-vim.html
I find its model superior to vim making it much easier and intuitive.
malware@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 274d
Yeah sounds nice, hope it lives up to those words lol. I'mma go check it out right now.
olafurp@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 273d
Also, if you don't want to spend a lifetime setting Vim up there's kickstart.
https://github.com/nvim-lua/kickstart.nvim
fhoekstra@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 271d
Or LazyVim
https://lazyvim.org/
galaxy_nova@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 274d
I’ll have to try neovim, and eMacs and all the derivatives. Honestly I just went straight to vim first because I wanted to try to OG experience first to see what it was like. I’ve also simultaneously been using vim mode in Zed which has been pretty nice too.
PokerChips@programming.dev · 0 pts · 273d
expr@programming.dev · 2 pts · 274d
It's not exactly like vim, and there are plenty of vim plugins that don't work with it (anything vim8 onward). There has never been a 1-to-1 correspondence, the gulf widens as both develop different features with different philosophies.
The most egregious offense on Neovim's part that I can't get past is the removal of access to the shell in which you run vim (via
:!,:w !, etc.). Vim is so much more capable of being closely intertwined with the shell, whereas neovim requires everything to be done through terminal buffers (speaking of which, vim's terminal buffers are a lot better than Neovim's).Also, Lua is really overrated and worse for vim scripting than vim9script (which is both more native to vim and faster).
Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works · 23 pts · 274d
I like to say that using Vim turns editing into an optimisation puzzle. That will either sound super fun to you in which case you'll probably love it or it will sound like a nightmare in which case maybe it's not for you.
four@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 274d
I looove solving the optimization puzzles instead of actually doing my job :D
"Yes boss, I am working on that feature. Right now I am installing a new plugin that will save me 5 seconds and 14 keypresses!"
somegeek@programming.dev · 20 pts · 273d
The bad part is when you learn vim bindings you want to throw up when you use any other editor.
aloofPenguin@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 272d
rozodru@pie.andmc.ca · 19 pts · 274d
The thing about Vim is once you get the navigation down you'll want it for everything and you'll refuse to go back to anything else.
I used Vim for so long that I can't live without some form of vim style navigation. my Window Manager uses it, my web browser uses it, all my TUIs use it, hell I even switched to Emacs and installed Doom Emacs and THAT uses it. Now I only ever use a mouse for gaming because you realize that navigating around your PC purely with your keyboard is actually faster than using a mouse. I've disabled the touchpad completely on both my laptops.
If you're digging Vim check out NeoVim with LazyVim. makes plugins and theming and what have you easier. I use it as my backup to DOOM Emacs.
mr_pip@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 274d
how do you actually navigate a browser tho? i always feel like i need the mouse for that...
rozodru@pie.andmc.ca · 6 pts · 274d
I use Qutebrowser. All links and interactions are keybound. so if for example I want to "click" on your user name I hit "F" which pops up a link hint and then hit whatever two letters are over the link. so for your profile it would be f + ll. that's it. everything that it's on a webpage that you would normally use a mouse to interact with can all be done with keybinds. It's great, it's quick.
Browser navigation is also keybound. if I want to go back I hit shift+h. forward is shift+l. to switch tabs it's shift+j or k. closing a tab is just pressing d.
there's also extenstions for chrome and firefox that will do the same thing like vimium and tridactyl.
If you've used Vim for an extended period of time then navigating the same way in a browser is actually awesome. takes a bit to get used to but once you do you won't go back and trying to use a browser with a mouse just feels slow.
mr_pip@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 269d
thank you for your elaborate guide! i ended up installing vimium, as i am restricted in my vrowser choice at work.
PokerChips@programming.dev · 1 pts · 273d
Qutebrowser is great for document style sites. I use it for tutorials and tech sites. Great for reading.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 273d
Try Vimium if you use Firefox, Chrome, or something Chromium-based. Invoking links with ‘f’ and a couple letters is so comfortable that I now get mad when the addon doesn't work on Mozilla's sites (due to security concerns) or when a site has ‘links’ implemented with JS.
mr_pip@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 269d
thanks for the tip, i tried it and it feels amazing! it is just a bit janky with not working in new tabs, but i can work around that with the "old" browser based keyboard shortcuts.
Mikina@programming.dev · 2 pts · 274d
I second this. I only started slowly switching to nvim few months ago, and I already can feel slightly annoyed when I have to take off my hands of the keyboard to reach for a mouse, or when I'm editting a text in i.e a browser, want to make an edit few words back, and I have to spam keys like a madman instead of just jumping where I need to be.
It's addicting and extremely comfortable, having a good keyboard navigation controls.
I really need to look into tiled window managers and a browser.
sukhmel@programming.dev · 1 pts · 273d
I'm more interested in how do you navigate system menus and such, or does DE manage this? I've tried one Linux distro recently without a mouse attached and it was painful because some elements of the system UI are not accessible in any way
rozodru@pie.andmc.ca · 1 pts · 273d
never really an issue with that either because most GUI menus will trigger via alt. even in something like KDE with the proper keybindings setup it's not an issue. heck even discord now has keyboard navigation.
slowbyrne@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 274d
Modal editors in general are awesome. Currently using Helix as my goto editor
beejjorgensen@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 274d
I was just going to say this. The modal part is the important part. Helix seems great, but I was unable to find a killer feature to draw me away.
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 274d
For me, the killer feature is the consistent selection->action grammar followed by the discoverability features. Being able to see what I am doing before I do it works much better for me and having those little pop ups for the space and g menus mean that I learned the bindings so much faster and use more of them that I ever did for either emacs or vim.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 273d
Emacs has this with the Hydra plugin, iirc. Particularly, Doom Emacs already has this feature packaged.
liebach@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 274d
Also, OP, realize you will always be nerd sniped. :-)
I use Emacs BTW, and sometimes helix (after 20 years of vim).
lobut@lemmy.ca · 17 pts · 274d
I've always liked vim but one thing that I really loved about it was when I started using vim mode in zsh.
Being able to just navigate through commands in my terminal and easily highlight and edit and all that ... it's so good.
tal@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 274d
I'm an emacs user myself, but if you're not aware, readline --- which handles a considerable portion of the "prompt for text" stuff in many terminal programs, like input for bash and such --- can be put into vi mode.
https://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/readline/rluserman.html#Readline-vi-Mode
Or, in ~/.inputrc:
To set the default.
bradboimler@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 274d
HOLY CRAP
Let's say I run a command that spews output. Are you saying that with Zsh I can use only the keyboard to navigate the spew, copy a bit of it, and paste it in a new command?
If so I should try it out!
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 273d
Zsh probably can't do that, because zsh is involved with typing commands, not handling their output. You should look into the docs and settings for your terminal emulator — some of them do support selecting output with the keyboard. Alternatively, something like tmux might be able to handle that too.
lobut@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 274d
Some say you don't need it, but I personally use this plugin: https://github.com/jeffreytse/zsh-vi-mode
but I also use this: https://github.com/zdharma-continuum/fast-syntax-highlighting for syntax highlighting and it makes it more readable too.
ArseAssassin@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 274d
xep@discuss.online · 18 pts · 274d
:qthisArseAssassin@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 274d
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 273d
I wonder if iOS and watchOS being macOS in miniature means that the terminal can be used on them natively, like on Android.
mr_satan@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 274d
So I keep trying vim and now neovim, I kind of like it as a good allrounder for one off syntax highlighted editing. It's just that for me, quick and simple editor.
For a true IDE I need proper symbol navigation. What I have in my JetBrains setup: ctrl+click - go to definition, ctrl+shift+click - search for references, alt+ctrl+click - go to implementation, alt+ctrl+shift+click go to declaration (specific to going to an interface). Then there's symbol renaming and good multi carret / selection support with keyboard and mouse bindings (alt+up/down arrows, alt+single/double/tripple click). Also, multicarret copy pasting is a major feature.
Let's not forget about live static analysis and autocomplete with support for fuzzy search and documentation.
I don't even know where to start to make vim or neovim do all that. If it can't do that seamlessly and just as well, vimlike editors will never be a replacement for a proper IDE. It's fast, capable single file and small scope editor for me.
I do also like all the alt and ctrl combinations with arrow keys to move lines, blocks and jump over words.
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 4 pts · 273d
Give Helix a try. It comes with everything you are asking for built in, plus discovery for the commands, plus a selection first approach so you can see what you’re doing.
fin@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 273d
Helix + lazygit is amazing
https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/discussions/12045
mr_satan@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 273d
I've seen it mentioned and it had already caught my interest. Main drawback I saw was lack of plugin support. It's healthy for an editor to support plugins.
I'll probably try it, since I'm setting up another computer.
aesopjah@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 274d
gdto j(g)ump to definition. Just to say that those features exist in nvim.absentbird@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 273d
I always thought it was (g)o to (d)efinition.
mr_satan@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 273d
I understand that they exist, the problem is they aren't naturally discoverable. With normal IDEs and context menus, I see keyboard shortcuts as I look for functionality. Neovim doesn't have that. Having to read docs or google for every little action I want to do is very unproductive and annoying. Features need to be discoverable through usage.
namingthingsiseasy@programming.dev · 3 pts · 272d
If you're interested in learning how to do it, I found this guide extremely helpful for getting started. it's in both blog and video format, and it shows how to install Lazy (a package manager for vim), and which plugins to install to get LSP working (which is what would provide all the hotkeys that you were mentioning above).
It's definitely not a task for the faint of heart, but I found it very rewarding once I figured out how to work with the plugin systems because it's so powerful and easy to customize. I found it helpful to just watch the video a few times to see everything working, then slowly started building up my own configuration (which was a bit more minimal than the linked guide I provided - I only installed about 30-40% of the plugins he listed on that page).
Another alternative is Lazyvim, which provides an out-of-the-box configuration experience for you. It installs a lot of plugins and most things should work out of the box with very little configuration. It is a massive beast though, but still pretty good for a first start.
Mikina@programming.dev · 3 pts · 274d
That's what I love the most about VIM, that it has dozen little tricks like these. Need to jump over a word? Jump to next occurance of letter L? Jump five words? Jump to second parameter of a function definition? Jump to matching bracket? There's a motion for all of that, and more. Including "go to definition" or "go to references", if you set up your vim correctly.
What I did was simply install IdeaVIM into my Rider, so I can start learning the motions while also keep the features of the IDE I'm used to, but also more importantly installed LazyVim, which is a pre-made config for nvim that can do most of that by default, or has a simple addon menu (LazyExtras) that automatically download and install plugins relevant for a language you are working on. I.e I need to work in Zig, I just open LazyExtras menu, find zig-lang, and it install LSP, debugger, linter, etc that's specific for that language.
mr_satan@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 273d
Well, having vim in an IDE might be good way to get the hang of it. I do see the potential of vim, but skill floor is too high for comfort. I don't mind learning something, but I need to be productive out of the box.
Gonzako@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 274d
oh, you do have fuzzy search with neovims kick-start. I have go to def on g>r>d. The rest I use way less so I don't remember offhand, the normal one button search just works for me so far.
Yes, I will not say it doesn't take extra effort but at least for me it has payed off.
mr_satan@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 273d
The thing is I need to know before hand that there's such capabilities. The editor has no way (besides docs) to surface stuff via usage. That makes the skill floor to productivity generate way too much friction.
I love the mouse for navigation. If I'm jumping through references chances are I'm just reading and analyzing so I don't need to shift from mouse to keyboard in that scenario.
FizzyOrange@programming.dev · 2 pts · 274d
I completely agree. Also almost all of the fancy editing you can do with Vim can be done just with multiple cursors, and it's less annoying because you do it incrementally (rather than typing a long sequence of commands and then seeing the result), and you much less to memorise.
mr_satan@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 273d
The main barrier for me is discoverablity of features. I don't know what I can and can't do in an IDE. That's where context menus shine, pair that with some documentation and settings exploration. Now we have a system to surface features and capabilities through natural usage.
AldinTheMage@ttrpg.network · 1 pts · 272d
Do you use vim motions in your JetBrains IDE? We use Webstorm at work and I installed the vim motions plugin because I want to get more fluent with using Vim but I haven't really given it a fair shot yet.
mr_satan@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 272d
Not really, someone suggested a plugin for that that I will try.
mrh@mander.xyz · 9 pts · 274d
wait until you try emacs
natecox@programming.dev · 6 pts · 274d
malware@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 274d
Tried emacs after vim and it made my pinkies hurt. If only it was exactly as vim...
badabim@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 274d
Check out evil to use vim keybindings within emacs. If you want a battery-included experience, try Doom Emacs where enabling evil is a breeze.
malware@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 274d
Evil? Sounds fire lol, I'll check it out thanks
limerod@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 274d
Yeah. It was frustrating to use vim. Emacs on the other hand was so much fun. The amount of things you could tweak and change. I haven't seen another software which can do this today.
sping@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 274d
It really is unique.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 7 pts · 273d
Vim is great for editing in general and coding simple things but I kind of gave up on using it as an IDE. Too many plugins to configure, to many breaking changes, too many bugs. My current issue is that after couple hours or days code formatting simply breaks and starts mangling my code. Only full restart fixes the problem. It's impossible to figure out were the issue is as there are so many plugins and external tools involved. I still think it's amazing you can setup vim to work as a full IDE with code completion, refactoring, formatting and all but it's just not stable enough. I reluctantly switched to Zed with vim mode. I miss smooth scrolling but other then that it's really nice.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 273d
I tried nvim with all the bells and whistles and it’s just too fiddly
Moved to helix instead, it does the light editing I need with LSP support and themes
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 1 pts · 273d
I tried helix and it's nice but it's still not ready to be an IDE. Too many features missing. And I'm not learning completely new tool just to edit text. Vim is still great for that. Let's hope it grows and gets all the features eventually.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 273d
Yea its definitely not an IDE
I use it mostly when I need to edit a config file quickly and don’t want to bother with a full IDE or VS Code
chasteinsect@programming.dev · 7 pts · 274d
On a related note, try Vimium (FF / chrome extension) that brings vim motions into your browser. You will have a more complete experience.
galaxy_nova@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 274d
Wait that’s awesome. Any chance that there’s a safari extension? I use safari and FF at home since I use both Linux and macOS
chasteinsect@programming.dev · 2 pts · 274d
Not a safari user so don't really know but on a quick google search did find this : https://github.com/televator-apps/vimari
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 273d
Just FYI, if you just use Firefox in both OSes, you can sync the tabs, history, and extension settings. Though I've seen the opinion that Safari works faster, but OTOH extension developers are unhappy with Apple's publishing/vetting process, and some devs dropped support for Safari that they provided previously.
marlowe221@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 274d
You probably already know this, but most IDEs have a setting to enable Vim keybinds or you can easily install an extension to add them.
I really like Neovim but my job often requires some stuff that it doesn’t easily do. So, VSCode is what I use a lot of the time… with the Vim extension.
Just something to consider if your stack isn’t super well supported in Vim/Neovim or you need tools it doesn’t have for your work.
msage@programming.dev · 9 pts · 274d
I tried vim keybinds in an IDE, and it sucked.
It wasn't even that advanced usage, but it just didn't work.
Instead I know run language servers in neovim.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 274d
What part didn't work? I use that all the time in IntelliJ and Visual Studio Code.
expr@programming.dev · 3 pts · 274d
Most of vim is not emulated. It's very surface-level and limited. The closest is evil mode for emacs, which is decent, but still lacks a fair bit. The emulators in Intellij and VsCode are paltry in comparison to what vim can do.
msage@programming.dev · 2 pts · 274d
Most of them, unfortunatelly.
Only the basic movement is not enough.
Markuso213@piefed.social · 2 pts · 274d
I agree with you. I figure you probably know this, but VS Code can act as a frontend for Neovim, providing one-to-one Neovim keybindings.
Some parts I never got working, but movement was honestly flawless. But I use a lot of snippets with ultisnips, and I didn't like the idea of translating all of that to hypersnips (or whatever the VS Code equivalent was called), so I stuck with Neovim.
msage@programming.dev · 1 pts · 274d
Movement is like 20% of why vim is amazing.
Without macros I'm already out, registers are also mandatory, marks are very nice to have, etc.
I have trouble even remembering what are some of the features called, it's just musle memory now.
witness_me@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 274d
I use vim keybindings in both IntelliJ and VSCode with no problems.
msage@programming.dev · 1 pts · 274d
Keybindings are OK, but anything beyond movement was way less ok.
Don't remember if macros or buffers were implemented correctly.
witness_me@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 274d
Buffers do work in IntelliJ. Not sure about macros since I don’t use them. Haven’t checked VSCode. I found the IntelliJ plugin was better though.
msage@programming.dev · 1 pts · 270d
Macros are absolute must, without them it's just walking.
witness_me@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 269d
I just tried it out, and IntelliJ’s vim plugin supports macros. You’re in luck :)
msage@programming.dev · 1 pts · 269d
I might give that a try very soon then, thanks.
SinTan1729@programming.dev · 6 pts · 274d
Welcome to the club. Don't worry too much about setting it up perfectly in your first attempt. You're gonna rewrite your whole config every year-ish anyway. (Or is that just me? 😥) Also, try Neovim. It'll be a drop-in replacement for your current config. But
Luais just a superior language compared toVimscript, so you'll have a much better performance in the future. You also get all the sweet LSP and treesitter features.corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 274d
The mistaken belief that vi was the only editor used in my early days in college was almost enough to make me change majors and career path in abject disgust. I didn't want to work in a field where vi was state-of-the-art. I'm forever indebted to the TA who broke ranks and admitted there was choice.
paequ2@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 274d
Awesome! There's a tooon of stuff to learn, but Vim is eternal, so it'll be a good investment.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 271d
You can delete everything inside the first parentheses on the line by "cib"
iByteABit@programming.dev · 1 pts · 273d
Helix is really fucking good too, it was really easy to pick up as a VIM user and it's 99% batteries included. You still have to manually install the LSP for most of the languages, but it makes it really easy for you to do so, just run
hx --health <language>and if the LSP is not installed it tells you the name and you can just look up how to install that on your system, which is usually just one command.Also it's written in Rust so added bonus for that 🦀
Lembot_0005@lemy.lol · -8 pts · 274d
Wait until you try an IDE.
sping@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 274d
I swear some of you people think some of the most talented and productive experienced devs use vim and emacs because of some snobbery or because they haven't noticed vscode etc exist.
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 274d
I have used many ides and editors over the years, including nano, emacs, vi, Notepad++, CodeWarrior, JetBrains, Code Composer, MPLAB, Cider, VS Code, and now Helix.
I've found that the most important things for me to be productive are:
Currently for me Helix is winning on all of the fronts. Cider was surprisingly great, particularly at search, but isn't available to us plebs, VS Code is ok, emacs and vi can get there but have terrible out of the box and discoverability issues. The others have major problems with multiple criteria.
sping@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 274d
Hackability not on your list? It's the ability to extend and adapt it to my particular needs that, above many other things, means I am too deep into Emacs to even imagine leaving.
Plugins are a very weak substitute that cannot provide that utility, and I notice Helix doesn't even offer plugins. That sword does have the horrendous opposite edge of almost total lack of security, so perhaps I'll regret that one day. There are so many ways I value Emacs that isn't matched by any other text environment that none of the others are even on my radar as possible replacements.
Out-of-the-box experience is very weak on Emacs, but I'm decades past that being a concern to me directly, though it does inhibit newcomer uptake.
Other than that, for me it ticks your boxes while barely scratching the surface of its merits. At least its speed and latency is not something I notice any meaningful benefit when working with something that people praise, like vim. Come to that most of the time like now, typing into a browser text box, I'm not even bothered by latency, and that's way worse than Emacs.
It's biggest failing to me is working remotely when there's significant network latency, where VSCode is clearly superior, but I have neither the time, nor probably the ability, to fix it.
BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 274d
Surprisingly, no, hackability isn’t high on my list. Sure it’s nice, but I tend to value good defaults and simple configuration more than creating a super bespoke system that only works for me. With Helix if I really needed to extend it there are the shell commands for now and plugins are coming soon. But I haven’t really felt the need to. 🤷♂️
I do agree that VS Codes remote is fantastic and I wish that there was something as good as it more generally. I do see a proposal for adding it to Helix based on the distant library. That might become my first PR for helix.
sping@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 273d
Hmm, I'm not taking about hacking defaults, I'm talking about hacking functionality. I'm talking about making capabilities that didn't exist, all seamlessly part of my typical integrated text manipulation environment (that's way broader than editing)
The unique power of emacs is it doesn't have typical boundaries, so integrated personal unique functionality is possible. May well be a huge downfall, security wise - it rides a lot on security through obscurity.
Frankly it's taken me decades to properly appreciate how my computer experience can be so fungible. Most computer systems don't allow it.
FizzyOrange@programming.dev · 1 pts · 274d
There's definitely an element of snobbery, and also of being lazy about tooling. Do you think once you become a talented dev you lose all human vices?
Some of the smartest people in the world believe in an imaginary dad who lives in the sky and grants imperceptible wishes. Everyone is human.
sping@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 273d
Lazy about tooling? The biggest point people make is that IDEs tend to work out of the box while the likes of vim or emacs need configuration and have an initially steep learning curve.
Well, as in this discussion, some people sometimes also tend to raise a lot of features as if only IDEs have them, but that's frequently just ignorance.
FizzyOrange@programming.dev · 2 pts · 273d
Not in my experience. It's very easy to design systems that break IDE support. People love adding all sorts of ad hoc build scripts that mean you can't just press F5 or whatever. It takes discipline and caring about IDEs to not do that.
And while people might love tweaking Emacs and Vim, it isn't required.
Sxan@piefed.zip · -1 pts · 274d
A great many of us had to use IDEs in our careers, and know exactly well what limitations and bloat þey carry. Þe fanciest features þey provide which terminal editors don't are mostly write candy. Helix can do code extraction to functions, function and variable renamed, identity and swap or rotate parameters in function definitions, pop up symbol or function lists, search for all symbol occurrences, and practically everyþing a GUI IDE can do - all in a fraction of þe memory and much faster.
It's not snobbery - it's experience.
gigachad@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 274d
It hurts to read your text, so I stopped after the first sentence. You probably already know LLMs couldn't care less about this "trick". I don't want to appear rude, just thought you should know, because other people may feel the same.
sping@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 274d
Dude, your
þeybusiness immediately turns 80% of readers against any message you may be trying to convey while the rest will be saying "Okay, they may be an insufferable dweeb, but that doesn't mean they're wrong, so let's try to give it a fair read"...lascapi@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 274d
Then I can use vim in the IDE 😍
I'm used to use Intellij Idea or Zed, or VScodium, and I started to learn the vim command because it's possible to use it in this IDE. That means for me to keep my habits!
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev · 0 pts · 274d
Add something like NvChad to Neovim. The amazing thing with Neovim is that everything is custom. You can have your IDE if you want.
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world · -25 pts · 274d
Vim is 40 year old garbage.
If you need to edit files directly on a device go ahead bust it out, but you're wasting your time decking that shit out with plugins for half the usability of an ide.
smiletolerantly@awful.systems · 4 pts · 274d
Cope
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 274d
Garbage. Nerd.
crimsonpoodle@pawb.social · 0 pts · 273d
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 272d
Garbage in garbage out.