The divide is most often made between carnivore and herbivore. "Shit" flows up, meaning all the nasty stuff an animal eats lower in the food chain, goes up and accumulates in their predators. Carnivore meat is usually more disease ridden and unhealthy for consumption. Our culture has kinda evolved to this point naturally as a protection mechanism.
It's also the reason you should avoid eating too much of bigger fish species due to heavy metals. Smaller fish don't absorb as much, but bigger fish accumulates heavy metal for each small fish they eat.
I think the point isn't about practicality, but ethics. It's less practical to eat carnivores, but is it unethical? If it's ethical to kill and eat a cow, is it also ethical to kill and eat a horse? A dog? A cat?
I had a professor who was native american, and yeah, he spoke quite honestly about how they breed the dogs for meat, and the puppy is more tender. He said his friends would always joke with him when he went back to the reservation for holidays. I can't remember the exact joke, but it was something about how he would have to dig deep into the stew because the puppy was at the bottom.
would have to dig deep into the stew because the puppy was at the bottom
I am having a hard time getting that.
If puppy is more tender, it would be because its tissue is lighter and composed more of fat and areolar tissue than muscle and dense connective tissue. Then in a stew full of meat from multiple ages of dog and what not, the puppy should be more buoyant than the dog, making it float higher.
How then, does the puppy end up at the bottom?
Some parts of my country used to eat & sell dog meat during WW2. Now not anymore, for above reasons.
I think it's perfectly clear; the line is neccessity and taste vs. friend and practicality.
Also, third-level consumers are a waste of ressources in most cases, due to metabolic inefficiencies.
And yeah, horse meat is still a thing. Moschtbrƶkli (some dried good parts kept in apple juice) a more or less local speciality. Quite tasty btw.
I often wonder which animals would just go extinct if we stopped farming them. And which ones would trade in a shorter life of food, shelter, safety, and health instead of being in the wild and surviving, constantly preyed on.
Animals aren't concerned with extinction and don't have committees to vote on what kind of life they should have. They just want to live.
Many would go extinct as they were bred to be killed, not to survive in nature.
I'm not sure if you were going there, but that's not an argument to not stop farming them. The intention here is to stop this cycle where hundreds of billions a year are born into a disfigured body, then live hell and suffering and misery then killed. They should go extinct and that should stop.
animal cognitive behaviourists who study the subject have not found proof that non human animals understand personal mortality. that is, they don't understand that they, themselves, might die. if you don't know that you might die, you can't meaningfully be said to want to live.
Well, Aurochs has gone extinct because of humans. Domesticated cow would likely have huge mortality rates due to inflamed udders the first few generations (things like this fix themselves fast).
Some folks say that all meat is disgusting if you haven't eaten it in a large amount of time. I definitely know there are meats, completely unseasoned, that I like and dislike. Pork is a big ugh from me.
I don't think this is true for most people. I will eat food that has meat in it if it's just going to go bad or be thrown away, but that's extremely rare and it's the same as I remember it from when I used to eat it. So probably once every 1-3 years. maybe it would be different if it was like 10+ years. Definitely with milk it is immediately obvious anything that has it and it tastes pretty gross now.
Here in the US, there was a rumor going around for a while that Taco Bell meat was horsemeat. Dunno if it was ever verified or debunked. My own opinion was just, "If it's horsemeat, then I guess horsemeat is delicious." Even if it were true, I couldn't have cared any less than I already did.
I guess just like any meat it all depends on how it's prepared. I ate horse meat I don't know 15 years ago or something like that and it was just okay it wasn't good it wasn't bad it was far too sweet with the way they prepared it. But apparently that's the way the Tongans like it.
I have been eating horse meat the past week ever since our uncle got us some. We had steaks, goulash.... But in none of those forms was it that far from beef or pork
Bought on Spain a few times. As you say, like very lean beef. Not great, but was much cheaper. I think the horses were not breed to be eaten originally
Horse meat taste quite good for the price. There's also lots of horses around, so re-using the meat when they die is much better than some farming conditions. It's a more natural cycle of life.
Horse meat taste quite good for the price. There's also lots of horses around, so re-using the meat when they die is much better than some farming conditions.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but riding horses or similar aren't consumed afterwards. Horses that are will be specially raised, basically like cattle.
Oh it's easy. You eat the ones that are bred specifically for food or licensable to hunt - generally herbivores and some omnivores. I know it can be confusing though. The easy way to tell is that if it's sold at the grocery store or restaurant then it's almost certainly a food animal. If the store also sells pets then you can always ask the staff, though live animals are generally not intended for human consumption.
I'm not even commenting on veganism. Basing any moral framework off of whatever the law currently is a bad take. Laws should be based off of morals, not the other way around. Slavery was legal, but that doesn't make it moral.
111 Comments
VonReposti@feddit.dk · 57 pts · 241d
The divide is most often made between carnivore and herbivore. "Shit" flows up, meaning all the nasty stuff an animal eats lower in the food chain, goes up and accumulates in their predators. Carnivore meat is usually more disease ridden and unhealthy for consumption. Our culture has kinda evolved to this point naturally as a protection mechanism.
It's also the reason you should avoid eating too much of bigger fish species due to heavy metals. Smaller fish don't absorb as much, but bigger fish accumulates heavy metal for each small fish they eat.
SmoothOperator@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 241d
I think the point isn't about practicality, but ethics. It's less practical to eat carnivores, but is it unethical? If it's ethical to kill and eat a cow, is it also ethical to kill and eat a horse? A dog? A cat?
Hazel@piefed.blahaj.zone · 53 pts · 241d
I think you misunderstood the argument.
It's okay to eat puppies and kittens because they haven't accumulated as much š
burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 241d
I had a professor who was native american, and yeah, he spoke quite honestly about how they breed the dogs for meat, and the puppy is more tender. He said his friends would always joke with him when he went back to the reservation for holidays. I can't remember the exact joke, but it was something about how he would have to dig deep into the stew because the puppy was at the bottom.
ulterno@programming.dev · 0 pts · 239d
I am having a hard time getting that.
If puppy is more tender, it would be because its tissue is lighter and composed more of fat and areolar tissue than muscle and dense connective tissue. Then in a stew full of meat from multiple ages of dog and what not, the puppy should be more buoyant than the dog, making it float higher.
How then, does the puppy end up at the bottom?
burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 239d
You're asking the wrong person.
SmoothOperator@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 241d
Is the argument that ethics are a function of accumulation?
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 241d
Some parts of my country used to eat & sell dog meat during WW2. Now not anymore, for above reasons.
I think it's perfectly clear; the line is neccessity and taste vs. friend and practicality.
Also, third-level consumers are a waste of ressources in most cases, due to metabolic inefficiencies.
And yeah, horse meat is still a thing. Moschtbrƶkli (some dried good parts kept in apple juice) a more or less local speciality. Quite tasty btw.
guynamedzero@piefed.zeromedia.vip · 3 pts · 241d
lol, I canāt help but read this as āmushed broccoliā even though thereās no way thatās how itās pronounced
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 241d
"Apple juice piece"
SmoothOperator@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 241d
Mostly agree - if you eat meat I don't think there's a difference between eating dog and pork.
But surprisingly many people think it is unethical to kill a dog, even if it's your own dog.
axx@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 241d
The line is ethics and necessity.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 241d
Horse + bunny tasty, dog not.
axx@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 216d
I don't see how that's in anyway related to what I said.
They are also different colours, just as irrelevantĀ
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 241d
I'm more curious why it's Cat->dogs->another Cat->other dogs
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 39 pts · 241d
The cat further on the right pissed in your shoes
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 241d
Does that make it more yummy? If so pigeons should the rightmost animal
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 2 pts · 241d
Yeah, less ammonia taste
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 2 pts · 241d
I hate pigeons and they hate me
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 241d
You, should eat each other
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 3 pts · 241d
No I should shit on their heads
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 240d
I nearly set one on fire before. Turns out they built a nest in our chimney, bastard wasn't too happy at a fire being lit below.
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 1 pts · 240d
Whatever they consider a nest. Stick on a rock? Best nest they've ever seen.
NatakuNox@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 241d
I heard that branch of the tree of life taste horrible. Too much ammonia flavor
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 2 pts · 241d
That's why the cat on the right is more edible - it dropped it's ammonia level by pissing in your boots
FridaySteve@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 241d
Good film imo, but terrible sequels.
5in1k@lemmy.zip · 23 pts · 241d
Pretty sure all mammals are edible so I guess the line should be all the way left.
axx@slrpnk.net · 8 pts · 241d
Pretty sure none should be eaten so the line should be all the way right.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 241d
I put the line horizontally so I get to eat just the bottom half.
Atropos@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 241d
Thanks, solomon
5in1k@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 241d
That is generally where most of the meat is.
burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 241d
Who's out here eating faces? Savages. Suck face, eat ass.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 21 pts · 241d
Have you considered the animals we don't eat just don't taste good? š¤·āāļø
slazer2au@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 241d
Or they were too hard to domesticate?
saltesc@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 241d
I often wonder which animals would just go extinct if we stopped farming them. And which ones would trade in a shorter life of food, shelter, safety, and health instead of being in the wild and surviving, constantly preyed on.
PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 241d
Animals aren't concerned with extinction and don't have committees to vote on what kind of life they should have. They just want to live.
Many would go extinct as they were bred to be killed, not to survive in nature. I'm not sure if you were going there, but that's not an argument to not stop farming them. The intention here is to stop this cycle where hundreds of billions a year are born into a disfigured body, then live hell and suffering and misery then killed. They should go extinct and that should stop.
Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 241d
Or we could treat them better
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 240d
Been on a farm before, what suffering? Plenty of non factory farms exist too.
PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 240d
You've probably been in a nicer slaughterhouse than I.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 240d
They don't live their life in a slaughterhouse
PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 240d
Yes, that is the idea of slaughterhouses.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 240d
animal cognitive behaviourists who study the subject have not found proof that non human animals understand personal mortality. that is, they don't understand that they, themselves, might die. if you don't know that you might die, you can't meaningfully be said to want to live.
PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 240d
Hahaha, what total nonsense.
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 240d
what's nonsense is making unproven claims, and premising a broader argument on those.
PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 240d
I'm not even making any claims that are not truisms. Just common knowledge obtained by everyone that has ever had any contact with any animal.
But you do you. I don't want to continue with this. Be well, happy holidays.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 241d
Well, Aurochs has gone extinct because of humans. Domesticated cow would likely have huge mortality rates due to inflamed udders the first few generations (things like this fix themselves fast).
neidu3@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 241d
Can confirm. I've tasted dog; Not that good.
Horses are excellent sausage material though.
Saapas@piefed.zip · 4 pts · 241d
Horses are best as cold smoked cuts imoĀ
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 241d
I like horse steak a lot. Itās somewhere between beef and venison.
Kalothar@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 240d
Do you think most carnivores donāt taste all that great?
neidu3@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 240d
Haven't thought about it, as I haven't eaten many, but pigs are omnivores, and they're pretty great.
I tasted alligator a while back, and it was alright.
Kalothar@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 240d
Iāve had alligator but only fried, so Iām not sure if that really gave me the best example
MrSmith@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 241d
Does raw pork taste good?
Or is it the dish that tastes good, a.k.a how it's prepared and seasoned?
For example, I hate fish, but Fish'n'chips is amazing, because there's barely any taste of fish.
burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 241d
Some folks say that all meat is disgusting if you haven't eaten it in a large amount of time. I definitely know there are meats, completely unseasoned, that I like and dislike. Pork is a big ugh from me.
saltesc@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 241d
Oh, I dunno about that. Have you ever seen a vegetarian relapse? They'll murder you if you try to take it off them.
starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 240d
I don't think this is true for most people. I will eat food that has meat in it if it's just going to go bad or be thrown away, but that's extremely rare and it's the same as I remember it from when I used to eat it. So probably once every 1-3 years. maybe it would be different if it was like 10+ years. Definitely with milk it is immediately obvious anything that has it and it tastes pretty gross now.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 240d
Even without seasoning, change the cut and cooking method makes a huge difference.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 240d
You know there is more than 1 fish right?
MrSmith@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 240d
No shot??
yobasari@feddit.org · 0 pts · 241d
Raw pork tastes great.
MrSmith@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 241d
Taste is probably a matter of taste
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 240d
I draw the line to the right of horse, because we have bred those animals for thousands of years as food.
Thats why they taste the best.
Killer57@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 241d
Because PETA is a piece of shit organization that doesn't actually require or deserve that kind of consideration.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 241d
PETA is shit.
Don't let that stop you from considering empathy towards animals. Pigs shouldn't suffer because of bad representation.
OlPatchy2Eyes@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 241d
Where does it say PETA?
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 241d
How many dogs has Peta even eaten before making that graphic?
AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 241d
All im gonna say is hare/rabbit should definitely be more to the right than horse
Rooty@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 240d
ulterno@programming.dev · 1 pts · 239d
Also, to the right of those:
www.photosynthesismbillboard.com
OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 240d
Iāve never had horse meat (afaik).
OrgunDonor@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 240d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
Damn I cant believe that was 12 years ago.
ICCrawler@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 239d
Here in the US, there was a rumor going around for a while that Taco Bell meat was horsemeat. Dunno if it was ever verified or debunked. My own opinion was just, "If it's horsemeat, then I guess horsemeat is delicious." Even if it were true, I couldn't have cared any less than I already did.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 240d
It's quite good.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 240d
I guess just like any meat it all depends on how it's prepared. I ate horse meat I don't know 15 years ago or something like that and it was just okay it wasn't good it wasn't bad it was far too sweet with the way they prepared it. But apparently that's the way the Tongans like it.
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 240d
I have been eating horse meat the past week ever since our uncle got us some. We had steaks, goulash.... But in none of those forms was it that far from beef or pork
Rooty@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 240d
There was a big scandal regarding undeclared horse meat in certain sausages in Europe, so you've might had it.
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 7 pts · 240d
None of those are bred for meat.
Never tried dog btw, it's expensive and doesn't smell great.
amzd@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 240d
Are you saying āif you are bred for this purpose the purpose is moralā?
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 5 pts · 240d
No, I am saying the dogs bred for being meat are the best at it, the most edible.
The vegans are kinda correct here.
QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 240d
given the random stuff they eat, they shouldn't smell great.
socsa@piefed.social · 6 pts · 241d
French bulldogs are not obviously more delicious than English bulldogs because they use more butter.
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 240d
Mostly we listen to our hearts...and stomachs...they sort of decide between themselves and let us know.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 241d
Its because there's more meat on the larger breeds
Flickerby@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 241d
The only conclusion that can be drawn is the maker of the graph tried them and listed them based on deliciousness
savvywolf@pawb.social · 4 pts · 241d
Why are some cats more edible than some dogs, bit less edible than other dogs?
Lemminary@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 240d
I'd rather not upset the natural order if my cats are going to eat me when I die.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 240d
Depends if you are shopping at Tesco
viral.vegabond@piefed.social · 3 pts · 241d
Swap horse and rabbit and put the line between them
radiouser@crazypeople.online · 12 pts · 241d
Plenty of people have (unknowingly) eaten horse meat, yum yum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal
6nk06@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 241d
The issue was that it was advertised as beef. You can buy horse meat in France and it's good, almost like beef but with less fat.
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 241d
Bought on Spain a few times. As you say, like very lean beef. Not great, but was much cheaper. I think the horses were not breed to be eaten originally
radiouser@crazypeople.online · -1 pts · 241d
You're talking to the wrong guy, I think it's all gross.
VonReposti@feddit.dk · 5 pts · 241d
Horse meat taste quite good for the price. There's also lots of horses around, so re-using the meat when they die is much better than some farming conditions. It's a more natural cycle of life.
JASN_DE@feddit.org · 7 pts · 241d
Sorry to burst your bubble, but riding horses or similar aren't consumed afterwards. Horses that are will be specially raised, basically like cattle.
Tonava@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 240d
Saapas@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 241d
Pretty easy, between rabbit and dog.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 240d
On what ethical basis?
Saapas@piefed.zip · 2 pts · 239d
Feels
shortypants@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 240d
Where are the delicious whales?
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 241d
Yet they keep killing and eating each other! When does the madness end!?
Shanedino@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 241d
Why are horses more edible than rabbit?
MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 241d
I will continue to eat geese forever because fuck geese
Etterra@discuss.online · -5 pts · 241d
Oh it's easy. You eat the ones that are bred specifically for food or licensable to hunt - generally herbivores and some omnivores. I know it can be confusing though. The easy way to tell is that if it's sold at the grocery store or restaurant then it's almost certainly a food animal. If the store also sells pets then you can always ask the staff, though live animals are generally not intended for human consumption.
apftwb@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 241d
"Laws provide moral order"
commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 240d
this is bad faith. it is not what they said, it is a strawman.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 241d
All life consumes other life to continue to live. Pretending that being picky about it is more moral is extremely arrogant.
apftwb@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 241d
I'm not even commenting on veganism. Basing any moral framework off of whatever the law currently is a bad take. Laws should be based off of morals, not the other way around. Slavery was legal, but that doesn't make it moral.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 240d
There are some people that have morals that should never be laws.