Mentioning it? This site is surprisingly a ghost town when it comes to an actual revolution being repressed. Going to a protest near your politicians or calling/writing them.
Not trying to argue with you so much as hope you got some links I can check to make sure I ain't missing big pieces.
I know a lot of arrests were made in like 2018ish and they had camps for them but I thought they transfer people to standard jails or let them out by now tbh.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Post news articles, make comments, make memes about the event itself, not making lemmy users the subject of your ire, the same people you wish to convince? Not the most efficient way to start the convo
Simply pointing out how there's (rightfully!) all the righteous anger in the world when certain countries do evil, but a blatant massacre is going unremarked upon or excused because Iran is "anti-west". I was expecting more than apathetic shrugs here.
I’m seeing posts. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I have little respect for “where are all the posts?” posts. It’s complaining that everyone else isn’t doing it for you. Someone has to sit down and post those posts. Maybe for this, since you obviously care, it’s you. Instead you’re shitting on everyone else for not already having done it.
Well, I ain't, hence this post. Fun fact: I did actually sit down and post this post, as evidenced by us posting within this post. Sorry to drive you up the post by my posting, I shall send by post a post-it note reminding me to post more post-haste.
If I posted a post about not posting enough posts, does this post not add to the posted total of posts? Call or post your representatives, no need to shove me against the post for posting a post about the lack of posts!
Touché, but remember your post only contributes to the not posted enough total of posts and not to the posts that the post posts about so the total posts that the post posts about remains posted at the same total, while the posts about the lack of total posts about what the post posts about only posts about something that seems to post about lack of posts but for what reason?
On the one hand, sure, the people there should watch out for the possibility that the US or similar tries to get a government satisfactory to them installed if the current one falls.
But on the other hand, it's not like there's any mechanism, in a revolution, to collectively declare "you're not allowed to support us" and have it stick. So if all it takes for a revolution to be illegitimate is the US to declare itself in favor, then the US has the power to delegitimize any revolution it wishes without recourse, which doesn't make much sense.
My personal problem with this is that we're not talking about ANY country but specifically about the current US admin which has recently, shitting on all international rules, declared itself to be above international law and kidnapped an foreign leader (yes, he was dictator, but for international laws to be valuable they must treat EVERYONE equal... not only the ones deemed worthy by the biggest bully in the yard). Since this isn't the first wave of protests but the first one to, apparently, get inhumanely bloody in this magnitude one obvious key factor differing this one from the previous ones is the openly hostile and antidemocratic US admin taking power one year ago.
Taking this factors into consideration it seems highly questionable weather these protests will lead to an overall better situation for the Iranian people... and this outcome would be the only one justifying the blood shed.
People don't want to repeat their mistake of blindly cheering revolutions just for them to turn into even worse dictatorships afterwards... like it happened in many countries after Arabian spring. Hence the skepticism and caution in my eyes is more a sign of an ability to learn from past mistakes... especially since this time a foreign nation isn't ,,secondarily involved" but repeatedly made actual threats to destabilize the nation in question and is actively threatening with war, not for the people but to fill its own pockets and demonstrate its power.
,,Opposing a dictatorship is always good... even if the majority of the people there are worse off afterwards. The main thing is that I feel morally superior while risking nothing myself. "
Its funny since lots of revolutions only really succeeded due to another state actor involved. Imagine being against the Haitian revolution because you think its just some psyop by the Americans to harm the French
edit: To clarify I don't know if the Haitians NEEDED the US, but the US did help
The Hatian revolution didn't really succeed either. Dessalines basically just re-enslaved everyone but they all started to slowly starve because nobody would trade with them after the rampage.
Because their oppressors are in opposition to the United States, alot of so called revolutionaries on Lemmy have sided with the oppressors. Many Leftist on this site express more solidarity with "the enemy of my enemy" than they do with workers internationally and they'll happily abandon the Iranian people rather then risk a new Iranian government that's less hostile to the West.
Remember folks, even the unproven allegation that Mossad paid off someone in those protests means that you have ideological cover to oppose the whole thing. Peak tankie logic .
Speaking up is a good start. Having infinite energy for condemnation of every misstep of a bourgeois liberal regime but not a single moment for the condemnation of repression in an authoritarian theocratic regime because it's "Anti-West" is suspect.
Luckily(/s) many of the usual suspects on here have shown that they have plenty of energy... for condemning the Iranian protests.
The "Everything America supports" is bad virus, many such cases. I think Foucoult wrote a bunch of papers in support of the Iran regime when they got rid of the Western backed government (Not to say I support that government). Did not age well..
No shit Sherlock, every revolution in history has been supported by a regime's enemies. The French supported the Americans, the Germans smuggled Lenin into Russia, Soviets supported Mao, etc etc.
Braindead way to handwave away rape, murder, and maiming as state policy to terrorize and suppress their population.
Yeah man, it's all the Mossad, actual Iranians are totally happy and totally support their very friendly government. They are totally not writing songs about how they are going to tear government officials limb from limb.
Not saying they are totally happy. But this is because of 20+ years of economic and financial sanctions by Europe and the USA for the crime of supporting Palestine.
Sanctions have become even more extreme after Trump pulled out of JCPOA in 2018 and applied 'maximum pressure" sanctions package.
I am impressed with how Iranians have protested en mass. It puts western so called democracies to Shame. But you have to be real that Israel doesn't care about democracy. It wants.Iran to be broken up unto a dozen statelets that it can bomb at will like Syria.
Oh Israel does not want a free Iran. We're on the same page here. But Iranians do. And just going "tHeY'rE aLl MoSsAd AgEnTs" is fucking hilarious when you see how many of them are willing to get shot for their freedom. Surely it must all be done by Mossad agitators.
If the US dropped sanctions then the economic situation would improve. The problem is the US is owned by Zionists and they want to destroy Iran. They're using protestors to achieve that.
Tankies are gonna tankie, that's nothing new. There are plenty of leftists siding with the Iranian revolutionaries on Lemmy, so what the OP says (that leftists in general are silent on Iran) is false. Unless they're specifically talking about tankies, but nowhere do I see them making that distinction.
I'm not denying anything, except the neutrality of HRAI. It looks, in my view, as a CIA front. Also, they report 10000 detained people, but it's not like you would care about it.
Yeah, I've been there before. But if it looks like the same it's because of the USA government's rancid recipes. They do the same everywhere, and everybody knows.
Ah, it's "just" 2,600 human lives cut short for protesting against authoritarianism and we'll over 10,000 more imprisoned with the regime pledging to execute them. Not that you care about it as those three magic letters clearly justify anything to you.
I don't take those numbers as facts, that's all. Don't presume you know me. The 10000 figure of dead people was plain misinformation, even taking the source as true.
Leftists yeah, liberals it depends on the instance. The difference between those terms means a lot more here than on reddit. Plenty would argue successfully that liberals aren't left at all but then we're getting into anti capitalist theory which isn't very practical in a capitalist society. But most lemmy communists seem to be of the Soviet and Chinese variety, so you know, not really communist at all but definitely anti capitalist authoritarian.
From what I've read it sounds like they're attempting a bourgeois revolution. Historically, it doesn't bode well for the working class there, and eventually even for the revolutionaries themselves. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.
I don't particularly care for the Iranian government (they support Palestine and are anti-imperialist, but they have some really shitty policies at home). That said, the most likely outcome if the revolutionaries succeed is the US installing a puppet fascist government, most likely reinstating the Shah. It can get so much worse from here, just look at Syria.
"Some shitty policies" is an astonishing euphemism for a government just murdered 10k+ protesters and is actively using rape, murder, and maiming as weapons to terrorize its people into compliance.
I agree it's fucked up what Khamenei is doing. Even before the protests the government had some awful policies when it came to human rights of the Iranian people. The protestors have every right to be angry and fuck shit up.
But judging by their slogans, a lot of them are aligning themselves with their fundamental enemies - imperialists whose sanctions have led the country to its current economic state.
Unless a revolution is staunchly anti-imperialist, it is bound to be co-opted by the US to set up a puppet government and extract as much labor & resources as they can muster, by any means necessary. Remember that the last time the Shah came to power, the protests were founded in real issues and grievances of the population, and look at the outcome. Look at the outcome for Syria or almost any Arab Spring country. I guess for many Iranians getting US to support them seems like the only way to win, in which case it's a real catch-22. Maybe it will turn out that this iteration of the monarchist government will be slightly better than the clerical one, but looking at the state of US right now it's unlikely.
I am heartbroken about this whole thing, because those people are clearly fighting for a better future for themselves, and they're getting slaughtered for it. But it is likely that their sacrifice will be for nothing.
The current regime has been enforcing a gender apartheid system for over 45 years. I reserve the same hatred for these fuckers like I do for Netanyahu and Trump.
Yeah, but the monarchist protestors want to reinstate the US-backed Pahlavi dynasty in the form of Reza Pahlavi.
His father Mohammad, the last US-installed Shah of Iran has literally said this in an interview:
Women are wicked, evil, all of them ... Women haven’t produced anything, no scientists, they’re pretty creatures
And has repeatedly referred to women as sexual objects existing only for his gratification.
Reza himself has been quiet on women's rights, never once denouncing either his father's views or the currently existing gender inequality in Iran.
I guess it wasn't very socially acceptable to be that misogynistic in the US after the 70s or so. Maybe he will finally speak out now that Trump made this kind of discourse mainstream again.
I feel really icky defending a prince, but Reza Kiri has, on multiple occasions, denounced the gender apartheid in Iran.
His father being misogynistic, like any patriarch, does not negate the fact that women are de facto second class citizens in Iran. Their testimony in court is worth less than that of a man, their right to divorce is severely limited and let's not forget how Mahsa Amini got beaten to death for not wearing her hijab correctly.
I hear you. I agree with you very much. Not entirely. It’s just so complex. Not looking to debate or make a strong point.
Push come to shove, I’m in your camp. Hesitant to be 100% on this. Reality per my view about 75% agreed.
Most of you here are against personal firearm ownership, make fun of the constant US school shootings, yet expect revolutions to be won against the State with only rocks and cleverly written signs.
I'm confused, are you saying that constant school shootings are a necessary evil? Don't you think think personal firearm ownership is possible without schools getting shot up constantly? Apologies if I misconstrued your point but that's what I understood
Many conservatives with a poor knowledge of history and/or poor political education and/or poor pattern recognition struggle to accept that their party is a currently fascist. They often view Fascist/Nazi as an insult rather than a descriptive term with definitions. They are complicit in fascism because their actions help support it but since they're convinced they are not Nazis they make no apologies for Nazis.
90 Comments
galoisghost@aussie.zone · 55 pts · 216d
Sorry. What am I supposed to be doing?
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 36 pts · 216d
Fly to Iran? Get killed or arrested?
Godric@lemmy.world · -12 pts · 216d
Mentioning it? This site is surprisingly a ghost town when it comes to an actual revolution being repressed. Going to a protest near your politicians or calling/writing them.
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus · 6 pts · 215d
Its because you cant see hexbear. Definitely not silent at all.
Soulg@ani.social · 0 pts · 215d
Yeah but one right doesn't make hexbear any less of a shithole that deserves to be removed
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · -2 pts · 215d
Hexbear deserved to be defederated. No regrets
StinkySocialist@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 201d
Hex bear is the best part of lemmy in my experience tbh idk while y'all hate them so much.
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 2 pts · 201d
Mods openly denied the Uyghour genocide in front of everyone
StinkySocialist@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 201d
I do see doubt put on the genocide label for what's happening to the Uyghur Muslims. I also don't think that label fits.
Maybe I'm just ignorant, it's one of those issues you don't hear much about. I saw this the other day and thought it was interesting
https://youtu.be/wYlzjuAoaSI
Not trying to argue with you so much as hope you got some links I can check to make sure I ain't missing big pieces.
I know a lot of arrests were made in like 2018ish and they had camps for them but I thought they transfer people to standard jails or let them out by now tbh.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 215d
Be the change you want to see in the world. Post news articles, make comments, make memes about the event itself, not making lemmy users the subject of your ire, the same people you wish to convince? Not the most efficient way to start the convo
statelesz@slrpnk.net · 37 pts · 216d
They're not revolutionizing in the correct revolutionary way, which makes them bourgeoise agents of Western Imperialism.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 216d
What are you looking for, here? Posts of solidarity with the Iranian protests? Seems like you could have just made one. Be the change.
Godric@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 216d
Simply pointing out how there's (rightfully!) all the righteous anger in the world when certain countries do evil, but a blatant massacre is going unremarked upon or excused because Iran is "anti-west". I was expecting more than apathetic shrugs here.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 216d
I’m seeing posts. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I have little respect for “where are all the posts?” posts. It’s complaining that everyone else isn’t doing it for you. Someone has to sit down and post those posts. Maybe for this, since you obviously care, it’s you. Instead you’re shitting on everyone else for not already having done it.
Godric@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 216d
Well, I ain't, hence this post. Fun fact: I did actually sit down and post this post, as evidenced by us posting within this post. Sorry to drive you up the post by my posting, I shall send by post a post-it note reminding me to post more post-haste.
KeenFlame@feddit.nu · 10 pts · 215d
The slaughter happens and you post about the inabundance of posts and therefore contribute to...what, exactly? Curious.
Godric@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 215d
If I posted a post about not posting enough posts, does this post not add to the posted total of posts? Call or post your representatives, no need to shove me against the post for posting a post about the lack of posts!
KeenFlame@feddit.nu · 3 pts · 215d
Touché, but remember your post only contributes to the not posted enough total of posts and not to the posts that the post posts about so the total posts that the post posts about remains posted at the same total, while the posts about the lack of total posts about what the post posts about only posts about something that seems to post about lack of posts but for what reason?
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 215d
You may be unaware of the americans dying in the streets. Ice murdered a baby yesterday. Americans are occupied, mentally and otherwise
You'll also notice that palestine is still being genocided. It's the news cycle. It happens.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 31 pts · 216d
Yes, but you see, the US is on their side, which means they're the bad guys.
CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social · 32 pts · 216d
On the one hand, sure, the people there should watch out for the possibility that the US or similar tries to get a government satisfactory to them installed if the current one falls.
But on the other hand, it's not like there's any mechanism, in a revolution, to collectively declare "you're not allowed to support us" and have it stick. So if all it takes for a revolution to be illegitimate is the US to declare itself in favor, then the US has the power to delegitimize any revolution it wishes without recourse, which doesn't make much sense.
GardenGeek@europe.pub · 0 pts · 216d
My personal problem with this is that we're not talking about ANY country but specifically about the current US admin which has recently, shitting on all international rules, declared itself to be above international law and kidnapped an foreign leader (yes, he was dictator, but for international laws to be valuable they must treat EVERYONE equal... not only the ones deemed worthy by the biggest bully in the yard). Since this isn't the first wave of protests but the first one to, apparently, get inhumanely bloody in this magnitude one obvious key factor differing this one from the previous ones is the openly hostile and antidemocratic US admin taking power one year ago.
Taking this factors into consideration it seems highly questionable weather these protests will lead to an overall better situation for the Iranian people... and this outcome would be the only one justifying the blood shed.
People don't want to repeat their mistake of blindly cheering revolutions just for them to turn into even worse dictatorships afterwards... like it happened in many countries after Arabian spring. Hence the skepticism and caution in my eyes is more a sign of an ability to learn from past mistakes... especially since this time a foreign nation isn't ,,secondarily involved" but repeatedly made actual threats to destabilize the nation in question and is actively threatening with war, not for the people but to fill its own pockets and demonstrate its power.
pimento64@sopuli.xyz · -1 pts · 215d
"Opposing a dictatorship is bad if the connotations are problematic"
Go outside
GardenGeek@europe.pub · 2 pts · 215d
,,Opposing a dictatorship is always good... even if the majority of the people there are worse off afterwards. The main thing is that I feel morally superior while risking nothing myself. "
Read a book.
pimento64@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 215d
I did, they were dreck. There's no cure for tankism like reading theory written by their little tin gods.
evol@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 216d
Its funny since lots of revolutions only really succeeded due to another state actor involved. Imagine being against the Haitian revolution because you think its just some psyop by the Americans to harm the French
edit: To clarify I don't know if the Haitians NEEDED the US, but the US did help
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 216d
Everyone give it up for America's favorite fighting Frenchman!
edible_funk@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 216d
Immigrants get the job done. As an aside though Lafayette was kind of badass.
socsa@piefed.social · 4 pts · 215d
The Hatian revolution didn't really succeed either. Dessalines basically just re-enslaved everyone but they all started to slowly starve because nobody would trade with them after the rampage.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 216d
Honestly, I think that's true for most of them.
_chris@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 216d
Hey man, a broken clock is right twice a day.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 216d
More like once a week, but yes.
Godric@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 216d
Precisely!
Nadru@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 216d
2500 dead, 10 000 arrested.
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 0 pts · 215d
4000 dead now
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 215d
Because their oppressors are in opposition to the United States, alot of so called revolutionaries on Lemmy have sided with the oppressors. Many Leftist on this site express more solidarity with "the enemy of my enemy" than they do with workers internationally and they'll happily abandon the Iranian people rather then risk a new Iranian government that's less hostile to the West.
nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 215d
Remember folks, even the unproven allegation that Mossad paid off someone in those protests means that you have ideological cover to oppose the whole thing. Peak tankie logic .
grue@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 216d
I like how you conflate three very different groups of users together and smear half of them as something they're not.
SARGE@startrek.website · 18 pts · 216d
PugJesus@piefed.social · 6 pts · 216d
Speaking up is a good start. Having infinite energy for condemnation of every misstep of a bourgeois liberal regime but not a single moment for the condemnation of repression in an authoritarian theocratic regime because it's "Anti-West" is suspect.
Luckily(/s) many of the usual suspects on here have shown that they have plenty of energy... for condemning the Iranian protests.
Godric@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 216d
Thank you, well said!
myrt@lemmus.org · 11 pts · 216d
I'm not sure what youre looking for here, validation? Fanfare? Anger?
Good for them. They died fighting for what they believed in and history will remember them kindly. Should we all be so lucky.
PhoenixDog@piefed.ca · 7 pts · 216d
Yeah it's hard for me to do anything from my couch in Nova Scotia.
Godric@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 216d
Good for them to be murdered by their government for protesting against it? "Lucky"???
myrt@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 216d
Good for them for fighting, you wet towel.
Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 216d
"ICE officers roam the streets and kill innocent civilians but 3%er, patriot front, nra and proud boys are silent"
evol@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 216d
The "Everything America supports" is bad virus, many such cases. I think Foucoult wrote a bunch of papers in support of the Iran regime when they got rid of the Western backed government (Not to say I support that government). Did not age well..
Mrkawfee@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 216d
Because its a Mossad/CIA operation and part of a campaign of a several decade long regime change attempt by israel.
PS: trump is Netanyahu's bitch
Godric@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 216d
No shit Sherlock, every revolution in history has been supported by a regime's enemies. The French supported the Americans, the Germans smuggled Lenin into Russia, Soviets supported Mao, etc etc.
Braindead way to handwave away rape, murder, and maiming as state policy to terrorize and suppress their population.
Mrkawfee@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 215d
I guess we can't all be as smart as you.
belastend@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 216d
Yeah man, it's all the Mossad, actual Iranians are totally happy and totally support their very friendly government. They are totally not writing songs about how they are going to tear government officials limb from limb.
Mrkawfee@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 216d
Not saying they are totally happy. But this is because of 20+ years of economic and financial sanctions by Europe and the USA for the crime of supporting Palestine.
Sanctions have become even more extreme after Trump pulled out of JCPOA in 2018 and applied 'maximum pressure" sanctions package.
I am impressed with how Iranians have protested en mass. It puts western so called democracies to Shame. But you have to be real that Israel doesn't care about democracy. It wants.Iran to be broken up unto a dozen statelets that it can bomb at will like Syria.
This is scheming by the US Empire.
belastend@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 215d
Oh Israel does not want a free Iran. We're on the same page here. But Iranians do. And just going "tHeY'rE aLl MoSsAd AgEnTs" is fucking hilarious when you see how many of them are willing to get shot for their freedom. Surely it must all be done by Mossad agitators.
Mrkawfee@feddit.uk · 0 pts · 215d
If the US dropped sanctions then the economic situation would improve. The problem is the US is owned by Zionists and they want to destroy Iran. They're using protestors to achieve that.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 4 pts · 216d
I'll take things that never happened for 10 bucks.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 6 pts · 216d
In this very fucking thread.
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 3 pts · 216d
Tankies are gonna tankie, that's nothing new. There are plenty of leftists siding with the Iranian revolutionaries on Lemmy, so what the OP says (that leftists in general are silent on Iran) is false. Unless they're specifically talking about tankies, but nowhere do I see them making that distinction.
sephallen@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 215d
Tankies give us leftists a bad name sadly.
selokichtli@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 216d
I'm not denying anything, except the neutrality of HRAI. It looks, in my view, as a CIA front. Also, they report 10000 detained people, but it's not like you would care about it.
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 215d
If you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you're an ML, everything looks like the CIA
selokichtli@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 215d
Yeah, I've been there before. But if it looks like the same it's because of the USA government's rancid recipes. They do the same everywhere, and everybody knows.
Godric@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 215d
Ah, it's "just" 2,600 human lives cut short for protesting against authoritarianism and we'll over 10,000 more imprisoned with the regime pledging to execute them. Not that you care about it as those three magic letters clearly justify anything to you.
selokichtli@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 215d
I don't take those numbers as facts, that's all. Don't presume you know me. The 10000 figure of dead people was plain misinformation, even taking the source as true.
RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com · -1 pts · 216d
So when are you flying to iran and joining the protests?
GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 216d
Almost as if the lemmites "communist, socialist, anarchist" population are fascist authoritarians hiding behind a mask, posing for online clout.
edible_funk@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 216d
There's not really a lot of actual socialists here. Tankies and accelerationists far as the eye can see, but surprisingly few socialists.
Tiger@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 216d
I thought the contingency here of leftists and liberals was pretty high?
edible_funk@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 216d
Leftists yeah, liberals it depends on the instance. The difference between those terms means a lot more here than on reddit. Plenty would argue successfully that liberals aren't left at all but then we're getting into anti capitalist theory which isn't very practical in a capitalist society. But most lemmy communists seem to be of the Soviet and Chinese variety, so you know, not really communist at all but definitely anti capitalist authoritarian.
Sharkticon@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 215d
Piefed and world are overwhelming liberal.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 5 pts · 216d
Plenty of real socialists. Just filter grad, ml, and Hexbear, and the ratio much improves.
BaroqueInMind@piefed.social · 2 pts · 215d
Nope, they've caught on and now use plenty of alt accounts from several instances.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 1 pts · 215d
Well, I said the ratio improves, not that you avoid them entirely.
sephallen@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 215d
There aren't really that many tankies, they are just extremely vocal. I suspect a lot of them are actually alt accounts too.
balsoft@lemmy.ml · -4 pts · 216d
From what I've read it sounds like they're attempting a bourgeois revolution. Historically, it doesn't bode well for the working class there, and eventually even for the revolutionaries themselves. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.
I don't particularly care for the Iranian government (they support Palestine and are anti-imperialist, but they have some really shitty policies at home). That said, the most likely outcome if the revolutionaries succeed is the US installing a puppet fascist government, most likely reinstating the Shah. It can get so much worse from here, just look at Syria.
Godric@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 216d
"Some shitty policies" is an astonishing euphemism for a government just murdered 10k+ protesters and is actively using rape, murder, and maiming as weapons to terrorize its people into compliance.
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 216d
I agree it's fucked up what Khamenei is doing. Even before the protests the government had some awful policies when it came to human rights of the Iranian people. The protestors have every right to be angry and fuck shit up.
But judging by their slogans, a lot of them are aligning themselves with their fundamental enemies - imperialists whose sanctions have led the country to its current economic state.
Unless a revolution is staunchly anti-imperialist, it is bound to be co-opted by the US to set up a puppet government and extract as much labor & resources as they can muster, by any means necessary. Remember that the last time the Shah came to power, the protests were founded in real issues and grievances of the population, and look at the outcome. Look at the outcome for Syria or almost any Arab Spring country. I guess for many Iranians getting US to support them seems like the only way to win, in which case it's a real catch-22. Maybe it will turn out that this iteration of the monarchist government will be slightly better than the clerical one, but looking at the state of US right now it's unlikely.
I am heartbroken about this whole thing, because those people are clearly fighting for a better future for themselves, and they're getting slaughtered for it. But it is likely that their sacrifice will be for nothing.
belastend@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 216d
The current regime has been enforcing a gender apartheid system for over 45 years. I reserve the same hatred for these fuckers like I do for Netanyahu and Trump.
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 216d
Yeah, but the monarchist protestors want to reinstate the US-backed Pahlavi dynasty in the form of Reza Pahlavi.
His father Mohammad, the last US-installed Shah of Iran has literally said this in an interview:
And has repeatedly referred to women as sexual objects existing only for his gratification.
Reza himself has been quiet on women's rights, never once denouncing either his father's views or the currently existing gender inequality in Iran.
I guess it wasn't very socially acceptable to be that misogynistic in the US after the 70s or so. Maybe he will finally speak out now that Trump made this kind of discourse mainstream again.
belastend@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 215d
I feel really icky defending a prince, but Reza Kiri has, on multiple occasions, denounced the gender apartheid in Iran.
His father being misogynistic, like any patriarch, does not negate the fact that women are de facto second class citizens in Iran. Their testimony in court is worth less than that of a man, their right to divorce is severely limited and let's not forget how Mahsa Amini got beaten to death for not wearing her hijab correctly.
sonofearth@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 215d
ManixT@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 215d
6stringringer@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 215d
I hear you. I agree with you very much. Not entirely. It’s just so complex. Not looking to debate or make a strong point. Push come to shove, I’m in your camp. Hesitant to be 100% on this. Reality per my view about 75% agreed.
cockmushroom@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 215d
here. Just take it
BaroqueInMind@piefed.social · -6 pts · 216d
Most of you here are against personal firearm ownership, make fun of the constant US school shootings, yet expect revolutions to be won against the State with only rocks and cleverly written signs.
PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de · 11 pts · 216d
I'm confused, are you saying that constant school shootings are a necessary evil? Don't you think think personal firearm ownership is possible without schools getting shot up constantly? Apologies if I misconstrued your point but that's what I understood
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 216d
I tagged them as a Nazi apologist for this comment: https://lemmy.world/comment/21335416
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 215d
That looks like being in denial about Republican complicity much more than being an apologist
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 215d
Thank you for this notification
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 215d
Actually can you explain what you meant here?
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 214d
Many conservatives with a poor knowledge of history and/or poor political education and/or poor pattern recognition struggle to accept that their party is a currently fascist. They often view Fascist/Nazi as an insult rather than a descriptive term with definitions. They are complicit in fascism because their actions help support it but since they're convinced they are not Nazis they make no apologies for Nazis.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 214d
Gotcha. Thanks for explaining.
BaroqueInMind@piefed.social · 1 pts · 215d
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 215d
Aljernon@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 215d
Most is a strong work considering the number of people in the "Under No Pretext" crowd.