DoorDashers are getting paid to close Waymo's self-driving car doors

https://www.engadget.com/transportation/doordashers-are-getting-paid-to-close-waymos-self-driving-car-doors-122711640.html?src=rss

439 points · 108 comments · view on lemmy.world

108 Comments

jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works · 167 pts · 187d (35 replies)

Putting aside all the late stage capitalism going on here, I still can't get over the fact that Alphabet (Google) spent billions of dollars developing self driving car technology only to arrive at, "Oh shit. Someone left the car door open. What do we do now?"

Lumidaub@feddit.org · 103 pts · 187d (24 replies)

Giving them the ability to close their own doors just screams "kid's arm smashed in automatic car door failure".

toynbee@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 187d (7 replies)

I used to have a Tesla (traded it in). In the app you could open, but not close, the windows. It could be inconvenient at times but I assume the reasoning was similar.

atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 187d (1 reply)

That’s weird. Most of the cars I have had can open and close the windows from the fob. (Usually double press then hold unlock or lock, though one car I had [Accord] required the key in the door for the windows to go up.)

toynbee@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 187d

Right - I think the difference is that, when using a fob, you're likely within line of sight or at least nearby your car and so presumably could observe or otherwise check for car occupants, but so long as your car and phone both have reception you can use the app from anywhere without any clue who might be in or around the car.

LodeMike@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 187d (4 replies)

New cars have automatic window up functions but strictly dont apply enough pressure to choke a child

flynnguy@programming.dev · 17 pts · 186d (3 replies)

Mine goes up automatically and if it encounters resistance, it goes back down again. I guess this is too hard for Tesla.

kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 186d (1 reply)

IIRC people were testing cybertrucks for some auto-closing functionality, and if they encountered resistance, they would back off... Then try harder, slicing through hotdogs

evulhotdog@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 186d

I saw carrots being sheared like nothing from the cybertruck.

njordomir@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 186d

Still hurts like hell though... from someone who once accidentally rolled up the window BEFORE pulling my head in. :-D

b_tr3e@feddit.org · 9 pts · 186d

Behold the miracle of the slipping clutch, millenials. See It working without being digital and all without an app by the ancient secrets of mechanics!

timestatic@feddit.org · 4 pts · 186d (3 replies)

Just make the motor not slam the door but close it slowly with not enough force to harm someone and put like two sensors + 1 backup in there

Lumidaub@feddit.org · 1 pts · 186d (2 replies)

Call me a cynical luddite but somehow I don't trust today's autonomous car technology to be reliable and fool-proof enough for that mechanism not to fail catastrophically and randomly because it's raining or someone on the other side of the street made a sudden movement or Mercury is in retrograde or the company's stock market just dropped 592 points because investors are furious after realising they wasted money on a backup or it's Tuesday.

timestatic@feddit.org · 5 pts · 186d (1 reply)

You know we already have autonomous doors for houses. I feel like theres a lot more trust involved having a 2 ton vehicle move significant speeds on the road than having it close a door

Lumidaub@feddit.org · 0 pts · 186d

I do not know that. I'd also assume the technology to close a door on a car to work very differently from that on a house because a door on a house that may not be closed properly is far less dangerous than one on a car. Also, yes, I don't trust that 2 ton vehicle either if it claims to be autonomous.

a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 186d (4 replies)

Perfect argument that they are too immature to be on the road.

ChexMax@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 185d (3 replies)

I'm sorry, are you saying children are too immature to be passengers in cars?

a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 185d (2 replies)

I don't get what you are saying. My kids' door locks aren't even on. You know what they can manage? Closing the door.

ChexMax@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 184d (1 reply)

You said

Perfect argument that they are too immature to be on the road.

In response to a comment saying doors may not automatically close on self driving cars to protect children. It seems like you're saying children are too immature to be on the road.

No one thinks children are incapable of closing doors, people think self closing doors may cut off children's fingers.

a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 184d

That isn't how the reply came off.

And that line of inquiry is irrelevant. If safe, self closing doors are a mechanical marvel that stumps the engineering teams of the self-driving car engineers then they fundamentally aren't up to the job.

This is a very small bar compared to giant leaps needed to have cars be autonomous.

andrewrgross@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 182d

That's silly. This is already a ubiquitous feature in minivans.

Smoogs@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 186d (4 replies)

But they built in a saw blade killswitch if a finger is detected a good decade ago or more. Surely they can apply such technology to cars.

piecat@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 186d

The sawstop causes mechanical damage that must be repaired if activated. It's more like an airbag than an e-stop.

Lumidaub@feddit.org · 1 pts · 186d (2 replies)

It hasn't yet been used without people around who can stop the process if it goes wrong.

Smoogs@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 185d (1 reply)

And yet things like robovaccums have. The sawblade has to detect the right material. Meanwhile Robot vaccums just have to detect anything in its path to then stop. And it has a bumper. And ring cameras can detect motion. As well as dashboard cameras. Dont see why any of this technology cannot be used in car doors just to detect anything in it’s path.

Lumidaub@feddit.org · 1 pts · 185d

I'm not saying it's forever impossible, I'm saying I currently don't trust these technologies to operate autonomously in a context where lives are at potential risk and they'll need to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that they can do so reliably before I start trusting.

partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 38 pts · 187d (7 replies)

This shows you just how strong our culture is an influence here. You can leave a door open and cause enough trouble that they need to hire someone else to go manually shut it. I’m willing to bet there are a lot of seemingly innocuous ways to cause friction with these companies. The more people know and exploit them, the better.

RobotToaster@mander.xyz · 18 pts · 187d (5 replies)

Supposedly a salt circle drawn like "no entry" road markings can trap them.

toynbee@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 187d

And, as a bonus, any ghosts or demons therein!

WanderingThoughts@europe.pub · 13 pts · 187d

That was the coning of waymo cars. It was their version of a salt circle.

partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 187d (1 reply)

At first I think you were jokingly referring to them as demons. Now I realize you’re actually serious…

leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 186d

Well, daemons, but still...

Bunitonito@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 187d

Supposedly putting a cheapo luggage lock on a door latch requires a coordinated effort involving a locksmith or a tow truck

jimmy90@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 186d

the revolution IS YOU

Chulk@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 187d

Even if this thing was left on a single city block for 8 hours with its door open, the data it collects about nearby cars, Bluetooth devices, phones, WiFi SSIDs, recorded video/audio, etc. makes it worth it for alphabet, I imagine.

panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 22 pts · 187d

When I was a kid my dad would drive forward and slam the brakes to close our van door.

It was really fun until that became the only way that closed the door.

Zedstrian@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 136 pts · 187d (1 reply)

Clearly that's why it's called DoorDash. /s

siravious@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 187d

Take my upvote and gtfo 😂

edgemaster72@lemmy.world · 105 pts · 187d (1 reply)

Does it charge extra to the last person that used the Waymo to cover the cost? Because if not, might as well just leave the door open every time, now you're a job creator.

Corngood@lemmy.ml · 50 pts · 187d

Just keep the door and you're creating even more jobs in the door factory.

DannyMac@sh.itjust.works · 65 pts · 187d (11 replies)

They have self-driving cars, but self-closing doors is still at least 10-15 years away.

Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip · 24 pts · 186d
Matty_r@programming.dev · 9 pts · 186d (9 replies)

I imagine there would be a gigantic list of safety concerns for self-closing doors.

real_squids@sopuli.xyz · 18 pts · 186d

They already exist though? There are a bunch of EVs with servos in their doors. You can still overpower it just like you can an auto closing trunk

edit: and they can also have proximity sensors, i know cadillac does that and their implementation is hyper vigilant, will stop the front door even if you're next to the pillar

Krzd@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 186d (3 replies)

Eh, we already have self closing trunks. As long as they are programmed correctly (not by Tesla) they sense resistance and stop.

real_squids@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 186d (2 replies)

I don't think programming is a problem, auto closing trunks and doors aren't strong enough. You can test that on any self closing trunk door, it will sound and feel awful but they're not strong at all.

Krzd@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 186d (1 reply)

They absolutely are strong enough to break fingers. The Tesla dumpster is famous for cutting into fingers with the self closing trunk

leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 186d

Tesla isn't a good example of how anything is done in the industry, but rather of how not to do it.

I don't doubt Tesla's doors are designed to mutilate their customers, much like they're designed to trap them inside in the event of a fire, probably because Musk's ketamine addled brain though it'd be funny, but that's not how any other company would do it, even if only because because lawsuits cost money and weaker locks are cheaper.

echodot@feddit.uk · 11 pts · 186d

I've seen cars with self-closing doors though. Also I'm not sure where the safety consideration would come in since we have self closing building doors right now and no one seems to get cut in half by those.

PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 186d

Minivans have had self-closing doors for decades bro

b_tr3e@feddit.org · 4 pts · 186d

Nothing a slipping clutch won't fix. There already are self-closing doors everywhere. Maybe not in cars but in all sorts of vehicles and everywhere in buildings.

DannyMac@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 185d

You're right! Tech companies need to stick to the easier problem to solve, self-driving cars! 😆

skip0110@lemmy.zip · 55 pts · 187d (8 replies)

Hmmm…so it costs Waymo $11.25 if you “forget” to shut the door.

Maybe people will become very forgetful.

Or, upon reflection, just don’t use Waymo, and don’t play into it at all.

LastYearsIrritant@sopuli.xyz · 26 pts · 187d (4 replies)

If you leave it all the way open, the car just needs to drive a couple feet with decent acceleration to close it.

If you ALMOST close it, but not all the way, that would require some sort of intervention.

tyler@programming.dev · 3 pts · 187d (3 replies)

Nah, you just speed up then slam on the brakes to open it, then you can close it as you said.

village604@adultswim.fan · 12 pts · 187d (2 replies)

The door can latch but not be completely closed.

tyler@programming.dev · 1 pts · 186d (1 reply)

Well then you can drive just fine like that.

village604@adultswim.fan · 3 pts · 186d

But the sensor says the door is still open, so the computer won't.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 187d (2 replies)

Need a car to get to the airport, because my city doesn't have mass transit.

If the only cars in my area are Waymos, do I just skip my flight?

Lumidaub@feddit.org · 25 pts · 187d

"Don't use X" always means "it's okay to use X if there are no alternatives but do look for alternatives". Unless X is X. Then don't use X.

skip0110@lemmy.zip · 19 pts · 187d

Well, in that case maybe you just forget to shut the door ;)

itsathursday@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 187d

The cost of doing business is to pay a poor to close a door and keep the wheels of progress spinning.

TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 37 pts · 187d (2 replies)

so from now on leave all waymo's doors open and if you see one open no you don't

87Six@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 187d (1 reply)

Don't forget to fart as deep into the chair cushions as possible as well

TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 186d

No this is more like that old legend about the French colonial forces trying to solve the local rat problem in a Vietnamese city by paying the local populations 1 franc per rat that they kill and turn in. It made the locals breed rats to kill and turn them in for the bounty.

We need to recognize that we are now "the local population" in that scenario. We need to milk the billionaire class dry at every turn and throw as many profit losses into their game as they yield any surface area to attack. It must be attacked.

Flip their '1 dollar game for them' into '2 dollar game for you' every chance you can.

anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 186d (6 replies)

Give people a dollar discount off their ride if they close the door on the way out.

scottrepreneur@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 186d (2 replies)

But charge an extra dollar first

cdf12345@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 186d

have a friend stalk Waymo’s and give the passenger $5 to leave the door ajar a bit .

humorlessrepost@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 186d
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echodot@feddit.uk · 20 pts · 186d (2 replies)

Why are people leaving the doors open in the first place that's just wild. The super excited to get to work or something I don't get it.

Wouldn't the simplest solution be to just ban people who leave the doors open, it's not that hard to close them.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 186d

Probably the doors are in the "unlatched" position rather than wide open.

pirat@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 185d

Maybe some people simply expect an autonomous vehicle to be able to autonomously close its doors in the safest possible way without assistance. Maybe they actually think they're doing it right by not forcing the doors?

timestatic@feddit.org · 18 pts · 186d (1 reply)

Why can't they build a mechanism where the car can close its own doors. I thought that would be the smaller part compared to autonomous self driving

bold_atlas@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 186d

The gig worker is the mechanism. Very innovative tech.

I know I can shut a passenger side car door with just the accelerator and brakes. If it's not latched completely then a bollard or a curbside tree will suffice.

macke49@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 186d (1 reply)

Human driven taxis have mechanically closing passenger doors for decades. It's a big bug software and a management a failure . This can't be street legal. Autonomous cabs are billionaires snake oil

Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 186d

Hell, the Mexican colectivo van driver closes the sliding doors on his rattly 20 year old van simply by hard braking.

nialv7@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 187d

see? ai does create new jobs. checkmate ai doomers /s

verdantbanana@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 187d (1 reply)

is there no saving this timeline?

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 187d

The future is clocking in for another 12 hour shift at the "making minor adjustments to the super intelligent AI dick sucking factory" so you can afford to eat the bugs and live in the pod

Canuck@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 187d (2 replies)

Its funny because in the US, there are regulations that make it such that, even if they have the capability to close the doors remotely and anti pinch sensors etc, they are not allowed to unless it is done by someone from a device nearby while they hold down the close button.

goldenbug@fedia.io · 1 pts · 187d (1 reply)

Oooooo interesting! Is ilthe reasoning the possible accidents?

Bazoogle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 186d

The reasoning is because of incompetent government

DarkCloud@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 187d (2 replies)

New rule, if you order one - fail to close the doors properly.

Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 187d (1 reply)

Door dashers certainly will be doing this

edgemaster72@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 186d

Instead of take-a-penny leave-a-penny, close-a-door open-a-door

rollerbang@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 187d (2 replies)

Just accelerate at full power and the doors will close themselves, duh.

XLE@piefed.social · 12 pts · 187d

Move fast and break things!

some_designer_dude@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 187d

Or reverse slightly and stop…

Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org · 8 pts · 187d

self driving cars

Top notch, very latest, highest technology, aren't they?

LMAO!!

devolution@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 187d (2 replies)

So what's the point if a future car can't close itself?

Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 187d (1 reply)

The US has serious FUD w regards to self driving vehicles and legal issues are in the way. Obviously the car could be built to do this safely but there are laws that prohibit this. Remember this is the same country that has reintroduced measles to the masses out of uneducated fear of vaccines.

devolution@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d

Of course it is.

anguo@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 187d (2 replies)

Can't the car just back up half a meter then quickly go forward half a meter?

brsrklf@jlai.lu · 12 pts · 187d

Now I'm imagining the car shaking off like a wet dog to shut its doors.

Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org · 2 pts · 186d

back up half a meter then quickly go forward

...in order to kill a few more people than they already do?

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 187d (1 reply)

Elon's robots can close the doors.

ThePantser@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 187d

And lock them, then self immolate

Soulphite@reddthat.com · 0 pts · 187d (11 replies)

Humans are dumb. I mean humans can do awesome super intelligent things, but the average human is a dumb piece of shit.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 187d (10 replies)

Humans know how to close a car door.

EvilBit@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 187d

This, along with the story of the driverless car running over a beloved neighborhood cat, highlight the fundamental problem here: they’re training these systems to be autonomous cars - and they’re impressively close - but they’re still miles away from creating a simulation of an autonomous human. Not everything about operating a car is driving it.

Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 187d

Obviously they don't.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 187d (1 reply)

but they don't give a fuck and just walk away.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 187d

Or they're in a hurry and didn't realize the door was ajar when they left the vehicle.

Pretty normal for this to happen at the airport, especially when you're carrying a bunch of bags, juggling kids, etc. Normally, its not a big deal, because the cabbie will pop out and close the door if they get the alert. But here, there's no remote way to close the door and no way to signal the rider that it didn't close completely.

Soulphite@reddthat.com · -4 pts · 187d (5 replies)

I didn't imply the human didn't know how to close a car door. I am saying the human is dumb for specifically choosing to be a piece of shit for NOT closing the car door.

I'm speaking strictly on the nefarious side of things because I can't understand simply "forgetting" to close a car door... but that again circles back to the dumb part of the human brain.

ToTheGraveMyLove@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 187d (2 replies)

Yeah, the humans are the problem here and not the unregulated, self-autonomous robo taxi.

ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 187d (1 reply)

self-autonomous

Just autonomous...the "self" is included in the definition of autonomous already.

ToTheGraveMyLove@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 187d

👍

frostysauce@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 186d

In "choosing to be a piece of shit" they put $11.25 in a door dasher's pocket. That's probably enough for like one taco in San Francisco, but still.. They gave a dasher a taco.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 187d

human is dumb for specifically choosing to be a piece of shit for NOT closing the car door.

Depending on what I'm doing, I periodically have to double back and re-close a door if I didn't close it hard enough. Modern cars have built in alarms specifically to alert drivers when a door latch isn't secured. You don't have to be a piece of shit to fail to notice that a door is ajar.