I got a friend who's MAGA and I've been talking to her about her politics for a bit and she's willing to hear me out on my concerns. It's also black history month, and she knows nothing about black history.
I wanna watch a movie with her or a documentary that dives into modern-day racism without explicitly putting down MAGA/conservatives. My goal is not to insult her or make her feel bad, it's to educate her, hence why I'm asking.
(Please let me know if something I've said is problematic or offensive in some kinda way? Sometimes I word things badly or I will ask things that arent okay and I dont realize it until I hit post, lemme know so I can correct myself for the future thankyuuuu ;w;)
72 Comments
Naryaskant@lemmy.today · 38 pts · 187d
Before you try to educate someone else, I suggest you educate yourself first (because this is a really hairy terrain to navigate).
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/06/27/yanss-236-how-minds-change/
https://www.streetepistemology.com/
https://www.cnvc.org/
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 187d
Oooo yummy links
devolution@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 187d
That one on Youtube about the dad. I can't think of the name. Racism will only if they have a personal connection with a minority (intimacy, blood relations, friends, community, etc.).
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 187d
The Brainwashing Of My Dad?
Yeah, that's a good one.
The problem is the recipient has to be receptive to their bias and intolerance. And most either aren't or actively revel in it.
devolution@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 187d
OP mentioned his friend is willing to be receptive so that's why I mentioned that one. And thanks for the name.
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 187d
Good point. Hopefully it works for his friend.
I was talking in more general terms. Most of the time people don't want to open their mind to a different perspective. That's awesome that OP's friend is bucking that trend!
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 187d
Oh yea she's super cool when not spewing stuff about the border. Ive got her to change her opinion on Book bannings and LGBT books being in schools.
She's very receptive to hearing me out and so is her family it seems. They're all conservative.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 187d
Her, and im also black so im like, the perfect candidate for this 🥴
devolution@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 187d
LoL. Yes you are. Good luck. From an old black dude to a black youngin'.
SuperEars@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 187d
"Jesus Camp" is just a dive into evangelical child indoctrination camps, in the George W Bush era. One scene has this prayer circle of children praying to a cardboard cutout of W.
It's arguably not constructive, but I'd say it's more a mirror to reflect towards a MAGA viewer "Look - this is you now."
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 187d
The preacher in that doc, screaming about the gays? Got caught smoking meth in a cheap motel room with a couple of gay prostitutes.
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
P00ptart@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
I wouldn't condone meth use or hypocrisy. But the rest is fine.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d
That looks like a good one too
pdxfed@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
Related: Marjoe, is a 1970s Oscar winner for best documentary about a child preacher, Baptist preaching, the money involved in the preaching/god industry, and to a degree clearly exposed the raw core of manipulation inherent. It's a documentary so doesn't come straight out and say it, so it could be interpreted differently perhaps by a strong religious conservative. It's a fantastic exposé.
Honestly some of the Michael moore movies; Roger and me might hit different for some of those folks now that they're suffering the continued effects of wealth concentration that is so flagrantly and unashamedly happening. Sicko will probaby hit many folks across the aisle as the issue is universal. Bowling for Columbine might be interesting depending on if they are a gun nut.
The atomic cafe is in my top 5 movies of any genre. It's not just about arms proliferation, it pulls together a ton of cultural pieces and shows how naive, propagandized, and horrible a nascent fascist nation began post WWII.
choui4@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 187d
Not trying to dissuade you, but have you considered talking to her about class politics and the economy?
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 187d
I believe I have and she's brought up some conspiracy theories to try and dissuade my points. Im gonna prolly educate her tonight on the psychology if Conspiracy theories and see what she thinks after that
choui4@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 187d
Will you keep us posted?
Have you ever heard of the Socratic method?
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 187d
I have not actually, and yeah ima keep yall posted ^^
choui4@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 187d
Hell ya, best of luck.
The Socratic involves (but if not limited to), asking the person youre conversing with a lot of follow up questions. Continuing to drill down until you get to the root of the issue. Then, you can work backwards to change their thinking to be more grounded in reality.
This is a really bad explanation but it works wonders for Consevatives. Ill give you a real-world example i had with my parents:
Them: "we dont like immigrants"
Me: why?
Them: they take our jobs
Me: how do they do that?
Them: by working for subpar wages
Me: ya, it sucks because it does take jobs away from people in this country. I wish employers were willing to pay fair wages
(Cut short for brevity)
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 177d
So i finally got to watch 13th with her and she took it well up until the end when they started showing clips n shit of trump speaking like a racist. She is open to every other thing except changing her mind about Trump. if I try to discuss anything in relation to him with her she gets extremely frustrated and I'm not sure how to get around that <:/
I think I'm just gonna stop mentioning politics to her and just- let her come to her own conclusions from now on and stop trying to spoonfeed stuff about trump to her. At this point I feel greasy doing it, like I'm going out of my way to try and get her to think like me and I should really not do that. She doesn't push her opinions onto me so it's just not right for me to push mine onto her. I should listen to what one other person said and just enjoy the friendship I have with her
choui4@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 176d
Thats okay, too. But, never stop trying to radicalize her. It doesnt have to be in an overt way. It can be subtle conversations about class politics. That has been working with my parents. Thanks for the update tho! What movie is this?
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 152d
Its called 13th. Its on netflix but I watched it for free on youtube. Its about how racism evolved over the years and became less of overt racism and more abstract
choui4@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 151d
Oh heellll ya. Imma check that out, thank you.
Iamsqueegee@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 187d
American History X might be a good movie.
REDACTED@infosec.pub · 11 pts · 187d
This is not the answer you're looking for, but I remember watching Green Mile as a child and that movie struck with me for life, and likely attributed early on to me being one of the few non-racist folks around here somewhere in East Europe
SuperEars@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d
The villain on that movie is particularly scary to me because of how many people would do the same thing.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 8 pts · 187d
I cannot imagine having a maga friend at this point. I could not look at them without thinking how insane they are.
Jela@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 187d
I would highly recommend Blue Bayou, it's about a Korean-American man in Louisiana raised by adoptive parents, but never got the proper paperwork to be considered a citizen. Amazing film, had me tearing up.
man_wtfhappenedtoyou@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 187d
The first thing that comes to mind is that documentary that I think was on Netflix about the 13th amendment. It's just called "13th".
Randomgal@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 187d
Make sure she is actually interested in watching or learning more. It can come off as very preachy and grandiose what you're doing.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 186d
Like those MAGA priests? /s
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 186d
Mmmm true.... How do I not sound preachy?
Randomgal@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 186d
Honestly? I would back out of this entirely and just enjoy the friendship. Personally, I would feel manipulated regardless, I dont like the idea of friends with an agenda for me. What I believe is my business.
If she starts it? Sure, that's a different matter. That's how you avoid sounding preachy. By not preaching.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 186d
I mean... I just worry for her dude... Her dad already gog laid off just 2 nights after they were talking to me about how "Trump was gonna make more jobs n fix all the layoffs" or whatever tf. and the company her dad works for LOBBIED WITH TRUMP to get him elected.
Shes super sheltered and just knows absolutely nothing about black history which I feel is a problem. At the very least I just her educated about black issues n shit cus her and her mom mentioned some shit about being "Colorblind" and just- as a darkie myself im just not about that ðŸ˜
Randomgal@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 186d
It is up to them to learn from their mistakes. That's how learning works.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 177d
Hey man, after watching on the documentaries with her. She took it well up until it started mentioning stuff about trump and then she got frustrated.
I think I'm gonna listen to your advice, I said this in another thread but its just not my place to try and get her to "change her mind" I'm like- no better than the nutjob conservatives that will fight tooth and nail just to get someone to think the way they do.
She did enjoy the documentary up until the end, and at this point I just... feel bad.
I apologized to her after the vid, she had made a comment during our discussion that "I only watched this with you cus I wanted you to feel comfy and cus it was Black history month, but I feel like you lead me into this wanting to talk about Trump again" and that's when i realized I'm crossing a line I shouldn't. That comment made me realize that I was being a bit of a bitch... Even if I was coming from a place of good intentions.
I have a tendency to get like this, I'll get frustrated or upset when I cant change someone's mind on something, I'll become obsessed with trying to prove my point until nothing else seems to matter anymore... I gotta stop that, its just not a good trait to have. Like sure its nice to talk about stuff and get my point across but at some point I gotta let it go and accept her as she is. I gotta start accepting people as they are, I had the same issue with my mom (she's not MAGA whatsoever, just stubborn lol) and learn to live with that.
atro_city@fedia.io · 7 pts · 187d
Not a movie but a youtube playlist: The Alt-Right Playbook
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 187d
Honestly, I don't have such a movie to suggest, I don't think such a movie can exist, due to the Backfire Effect. Changing people's minds takes time, and the impetus to change has to come from within. The handful of times that I've managed to do it involved sharing an idea or observation that doesn't immediately trigger their defenses, but metaphorically is like dropping a grain of sand in the gears of their mind, and then letting it do the work of grinding away at the teeth, until one day their old thought process breaks down. It can take months.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
Ive also been at it for a few months. this is the first movie night I'm gonna have with her. So far it's just been us discussing things and ive made some decent progress ngl :0 My main goal is for her to detach herself from Trump above all else. And whatever conspiracy theories she's into at the moment
disregardable@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 187d
I think you should start with Nixon. Start with the war on the drugs. Some people like to believe that racism "stopped" after the civil rights movement, but we just changed the way we described the targeting.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d
is there a good movie for that?
freshcow@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 187d
The Perfect Neighbor on Netflix had me in tears. About a black mother who was killed in Florida by someone trying to claim Stand Your Ground laws
Superdooper@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 187d
I feel like this is the perfect video for this as the guy himself used to be alt right : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OygHnodf0XM&t=1
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 187d
Maybe not one as direct as that one if ya catch my drift. She gets defensive and dismissive if im too direct about it. but ima keep that vid in mind
pomegranatefern@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 186d
It's not quite the movie/documentary you are looking for, but I have seen https://leavingmaga.org/ spread around.
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 187d
I'll ask my wife, because she's been consuming a lot of racism lately. (Lots of civil war era books, with a strong focus on the injustices against black people.)
Off the top of my head there's of course, Roots.
We also watched the Free State of Jones. It's based on a true story that puts you in the shoes of a Rebel soldier who goes AWOL, and befriends a group of runaway slaves.
Since you know your friend better than any of us, you might want to watch any suggestions alone, and possibly even search online for an in depth analysis of it before presenting it to your friend. That way you can be prepared to intelligently discuss any topics that might come up.
EDIT: My wife reminded me of American History X, which is more anti KKK than pro-black, but it's also much more modern and VERY graphic.
Good luck!
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 187d
If you're going there, then 12 Years A Slave is the best take on pre-Civil War slavery. It's a true story, and the book is great, too.
roofuskit@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 187d
It would have to involve a lot of emotion. It would need to trigger empathy in them so should center around a person who they would identify with. For racism it's unlikely you'll find a documentary for that.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 187d
They have empathy, its just misguided. They arent a racist but believe in being "Colorblind" (which is another conversation ima have to have with her lmao)
Her and her family just seem like the Misguided type of brainwashed where the only reason they became MAGA is out of some kind of fear or desperation for wanting to better their country. Innocent reasons that lead them into a horrible pipeline. They arent too far gone yet cus they enjoy talking to me and hearing out what I have to say. Even admitting when they are wrong in some aspects
roofuskit@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
Racism and a lot of the things conservatives believe out of fear are emotional reactions. They don't reason themselves into positions so you cannot reason them out of them.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d
But I can and I did. I've already gotten her to back down on her ideas of Book bannings and Trans people and got her to admit being wrong in somethings.
theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 187d
Slavery by Another Name
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d
Oooo that looks good
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 187d
unlikely if you cant target the root of the problems, they would just call things woke. your basically saying changing thier mind without offending them, they are easily offended.
if shes willing to look at MLK, m. and the civil rights movement.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 186d
Nahh she isnt the type to yell "WOKE" at stuff. Thank god. She's just SEVERELY in the dark about shit.
She knows nothing about black history month, celebrities like Beyonce, Dolly Parton or Kanye; I thought she was fucking with me when she said "Isnt West a direction?" when I mentioned his name.
The only things she knows about are Politics and Roleplay (We roleplay gay shit on discord and that's how we met lmfao)
So "woke stuff" doesnt phase her cus we roleplay "woke" stuff all the time with Monster boys on discord 🤣🤣 Her family is also aware and is super chill about it.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 187d
Don't have any particular titles (mostly due to not living in the US), but I've noticed black people call the genre ‘civil rights movies’: e.g. Roy Wood Jr. here and in other clips. So perhaps googling that would yield some recommendations.
TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website · 3 pts · 187d
Peter Watkins
The War Game, Punishment Park, (the longuets) La commune (Paris, 1871)
They are each a documentary with a but.
The War Game talk about atomic bomb and use real citations but nothing in the movie is real. Punishment Parc take a hypothetical
facistsituation where the US government build a open prison into the Mojave desert and let loose convict in a kind of capture the flag run against police trainees, the fun part is that he take left leaning actor to play right wing voice and vice versa. In La Commune he take a theatre troupe and made them play the event of the Commune de Paris but there’s a « TV Crew » that are citing journal headline of the time.RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 186d
If Beale Street Could Talk
Hello_there@fedia.io · 2 pts · 187d
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
OOOO that El Norte sounds really good. Ima check that out!
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev · 2 pts · 187d
Green Book maybe? It's not really about modern-day racism as much as recent-history racism, but perhaps it helps to show what people had to deal with (and still do in many cases).
dr_yeti@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
I am not your negro is incredible. Not a film, but Ta-Nehesi Coates Between the world and me carries on James Baldwin's legacy.
0ops@piefed.zip · 1 pts · 187d
Selma?
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
That might work
bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 187d
Also the documentary 13th which is directed by the same director, Ava DuVernay.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 187d
You have a freind who is MAGA.
Give up now. That is an emotional state of being. Logic and facts are a wastes of time,
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d
A neighbor or coworker is probably a lost cause, but this friend sounds open to change.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 187d
I don’t understand how anyone with 1° of sense or empathy can be friends With aMAGA
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 186d
I was friends with her for 4 years and only found out just 1-2 years ago when I mentioned Kamela. She doesnt blurt her politics unless you ask her to
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 187d
My friend is open to change and I've gotten her to change her opinion on some things like book banning and trans people. (big win on the Trans part IMO)
You first have to understand the person and their reasons for WHY they may believe something before tackling it. For her, she simply wants what's best for her country, which is an innocent thing to want; I also want what's best for my country. But she thinks that through all the golden promises Trump makes that he'll be her golden ticket to the nation being "great again"
Her reasons for being MAGA play on the fear of her own country falling apart, and the desperation/hopelessness of not being able to do anything about it. Trump preys on people's fears and worries. That's what's got her hooked. And that's the angle im trynna attack it from.
Relating to her or finding common ground is the best way to get someone to see you as a person worth listening to. I've told her many times before that I'm Democrat, but she believes me to be different because I'm open-minded enough to listen to her and what she has to say. She listens to me because I give her grace in a world that would be much quicker to insult and shame her, and shame isn't a good way to change someones mind, as tempting as it can be to just call someone a "dumbass idiot"
I think that's why a lot of MAGA are so deeply rooted in their camp. It's because of the shame that may come with realizing that your entire worldview was wrong, or that they were stupid for being MAGA in the first place. And to avoid that kinda realization, they would much rather bury their head further into the sand. It can be a lot for someone to handle all at once if growing up thats all you knew.
I know this cus after debating her about the border situation and digging at her point just enough, she said something like "I'm just a cold-hearted person... but you have a lot of heart, I just don't think I have any left..." or something like that. Every day I remind her that she is a good person, even if her beliefs are... blegh– Good people can make mistakes too, good people can end up doing bad things through having good intentions. I wanna be the cushion for– if and when her ideology does fall apart– it won't ruin her completely. If that makes sense.
Cock_Inspecting_Asexual@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 187d
TLDR; facts and logic arent enough to just change a person's mind. It takes understanding the individual and having a lotta empathy to break down their defensive walls for them to actually listen to you.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 187d
MAGA IS A MENTAL ILLNESS. People literally revere a guy whose catch phrase is YOU’RE FIRED.
What miserable piece of shit makes that their catchphrase?