French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle tracked via Strava activity in OPSEC failure
https://securityaffairs.com/189696/intelligence/french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle-tracked-via-strava-activity-in-opsec-failure.html
356 points · 51 comments · view on lemmy.world
51 Comments
kahjtheundedicated@lemmy.world · 94 pts · 138d
As funny as that is, something tells me it’s not that hard to spot an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 69 pts · 138d
You have to be in visual range, or radar range if you have one, which is the horizon plus a bit more depending how high above sea level your are and how tall your target is.
If you're on a ship, unless you're using an advanced radar that bounces signals against the ionosphere or you have a meteorological phenomena called an inversion which can curve your radar energy over the horizon a little bit, your radar horizon is surprisingly short, something around 12 nautical miles give or take. And the sea is big and Iran is quite far.
This is one big reason why aircraft are used for surveillance at sea. They can go much higher than any ship's radar antenna mast every could be which significantly expands their radar horizon. They can also scan a huge area relatively quickly as they can travel much faster.
Because if this fuck up, Iran now has the intel that the French carrier is approaching without even having to send an aircraft out to look for it. If they even still have the ability to do so at this point.
Randomgal@lemmy.ca · 34 pts · 137d
So satellites can see my truck's plate but an aircraft carrier and it's escrow fleet are too... Small?
astronaut_sloth@mander.xyz · 36 pts · 137d
Sort of. Satellite resources are surprisingly scarce, so a lot are focused where people are, i.e. land. Plus, for the imagery sats that are focused on the ocean, ships are also tiny in a literal ocean of blue. It's just a spec. While the resolution could be good, have fun looking for that spec. That's why most countries use signal collection to locate vessels at sea. (I'm over-simplifying a lot, but you get the picture)
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 137d
Seems like an simple but tedious job. Something that a computer can do.
Object detection algorithms are incredibly fast and can learn to tell the difference between an aircraft carrier and an ocean.
astronaut_sloth@mander.xyz · 12 pts · 137d
There are a surprising amount of false positives when using object detection on maritime imagery. While a carrier is a spec, there are a ton of specs in the ocean that can look similar enough. Plus, weather has a huge hand to play. If it were always perfectly clear, then it's an easier problem, but one cloud can really mess up the detection. Ultimately, ship detection is a difficult problem (not intractable but still hard).
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 137d
False positives are fine, you assign 1, 10, 50, 100 analysts to review hits. You only need to find it once, then the search area becomes incredibly small for each subsequent satellite pass.
I'm not saying that it is easy, just that you don't need to have a surface ship within 15 nm in order to see it.
EddoWagt@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 137d
It kind of sounds like you're saying that. Anyways, there's a reason submarines exist
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social · 4 pts · 137d
It depends a great deal on if you have access to a real-time satellite feed and know where to look.
Iconoclast@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 137d
You still need to know where to point that spy satellite's camera at. If you take picture that covers hundreds of square kilometers then you don't have enough resolution to spot the ship but you can't zoom in much either because you don't know where to zoom.
It's different with buildings because you know where they are.
theneverfox@pawb.social · 0 pts · 137d
It's the ocean. The majority of Earths surface where there's usually not much going on
yucandu@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 137d
why don't ships at sea simply disguise themselves as a rock or shrubbery?
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 17 pts · 137d
Or as a duck if they need to move.
BTW sweden have some cool ship disguises.
Edit: went looking for it, couldn't even find a photo.
Yeah, that's how good they are.
Found an old, not very effective but fun one:
rmuk@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 137d
The Swedish Navy's ships do have some bonkers designs, like massive barcodes printed on the side. It's so that when they get back to port they can scan the navy in.
AlDente@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 137d
I just searched for some more info on this and was definitely surprised by the design. That's pretty neat. 😆
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 136d
('scandinavian' for people like me)
glimse@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 137d
Good idea, you should sketch it up in paint and post it to NCD
ryannathans@aussie.zone · 10 pts · 137d
China and Russia could also just tell Iran, if they don't have satellites of their own
gnutrino@programming.dev · 6 pts · 137d
It wasn't exactly a secret, France publicly announced it was being moved to the eastern med
njordomir@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 137d
I saw the location on one of those "war dashboards" a day or two ago. Can't have been that secret.
HexadecimalSky@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 138d
Same thing happen with unlisted FOBs in Afghanistan and the U.S. army. running apps have compromised opsec of a surprising amount of facilities.
sbv@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 137d
And here we are, fifteen years later.
Manjushri@piefed.social · 7 pts · 137d
Yep. This has only been an issue for nearly a decade.
The Strava Heat Map and the End of Secrets
BassTurd@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 137d
I remember reading that. My brother is in the AF, and through some system, they can get gear like Garmin Fenix watches that does GPS tracking and uploads to their cloud and can be synced with Strava. It's wild that stuff like this isn't strictly monitored to prevent this exact scenario.
merde@sh.itjust.works · 36 pts · 137d
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/29/macron_location_strava/
will they learn one day?
Gonzako@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 137d
Its kinda the best way to make politicians care about privacy. Make them feel watched by the big brother they're trying to implement
Tower@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 137d
Unfortunately, this usually just means they find a way to exempt themselves and still support the data collection
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 24 pts · 137d
Apparently strava is for posting your runs on social
That sailor now got the runs
halfapage@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 137d
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 137d
Eyoooo
Gonzako@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 137d
Imagine losing a carrier cuz one of the soldiers forgot to read the privacy notice on their smartwatch
RipLemmDotEE@lemmy.today · 14 pts · 137d
Imagine losing a carrier because a major world power's military IT security is so incompetent they're allowing sailors on active deployment to have unfettered internet access.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 137d
There was a similar incident where they found a sailor on one US Navy ship had their own Starlink terminal because they were broadcasting an SSID. At the end of the day, you can’t fix stupid.
stoly@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 137d
Worse than stupid: criminal.
TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 137d
Gonzako@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 137d
I think this is more of a consequence that the things one buys now aren't only serving their paying customers interest
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 137d
One of the early successes of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was when they took out a barracks of foreign volunteers because around 40 of them were ex-british soldiers and Russian intelligence linked their phones to historical records collected outside British army bases.
Suoko@feddit.it · 1 pts · 126d
Or maybe they're competent but are trying to change that strange military world telling them "put your foot back on the civilian world"
hesh@quokk.au · 7 pts · 137d
Why is it zig zagging?
eager_eagle@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 137d
that's how it looks when you walk/run in circles in a vessel that's moving
Kapirotto@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 137d
I thought the same at first, but comparing to the map scale, I think that would mean the ship is crazy giant (like slightly bigger than the small loops in the track). If you compare that to the islands, it would mean the ship is bigger than many islands.
Also, it would mean the ship is travelling slower than the man can run, which is possible, but not probable...
I'm not sure why it's zigzagging, but I would bet it's something else...
eager_eagle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 137d
you can't compare it to the islands, because the GPS trace is in an area within that green circle, with a different scale. You can only look at the 300m scale in the bottom right, which looks in the ballpark of an aircraft carrier to me
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 137d
Wow. Can you infer vessel speed by assuming the run always concluded at the start position? The bottom line doesn’t meet back at the top line because the ship and runner were going in opposite directions.
eager_eagle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 137d
You don't need that assumption. Your assumption can just be "the person and vessel (or a point in the vessel, like its center of mass) don't diverge significantly over time".
Then, if you treat velocity as a vector and compute the person's average velocity vector over time, you'll have a pretty close estimation to the vessel's velocity vector.
After all, if those two average vectors (vessel's and person's) were to differ much, they would end up in different locations.
The average basically zeroes the vector for each lap the person does, so the remainder must be the vessel's.
couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 137d
He's running up and down the deck
PumaStoleMyBluff@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 137d
OsmAnd ftw
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 137d
Why does it look exactly like my signature!?
mrl1@jlai.lu · 5 pts · 137d
It's not like an aircraft carrier is hard to detect anyways. And I doubt you can register Strava activities in a submarine.
Also also, it's not because there hasn't been a 2nd snowden that there aren't modern Pegasus.
Danarchy@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 137d
iambic heptameter ass route
fenrasulfr@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 137d
Gotta get those laps in XD
vegeta@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 138d