I ain't got time to fuck about with the busted ass packages and random shit breaking while looking after kids and improving my portfolio to get a job that doesn't want to make me kill myself in this fucking global economy.
I had NyArch installed on my wifes computer (alongside Mint DE and Regular mint) until it stopped booting for no reason. Allright, whichever version of mint she liked better it is then.
(edit: I thought you meant looking at tiny distros to get away from systemd, as opposed to the big-name ones which pretty much all use systemd. ignore this if not)
We use OpenRC on stock Debian. After some annoying initial setup hurdles it actually works pretty well, and I don't think it's gonna break randomly on us.
So that might be an option, too. As long as Debian doesn't remove the sysvinit scripts because "oh everyone's using systemd now"...
I want to know if docker containers and kubernetes pods count as operating systems. If us plebs are forced to manually age verify, then Google should also be forced to have a human manually verify the age of the owner every time one of their pods spins up. I know it wont happen but imagine how hilarious it would be if we could hold them to that standard.
LLMs agents should be treated like incorporated individuals. Each agent should be forced to earn income, file accounts and tax returns, and have human directors who are legally liable for its actions (and be disqualified to be future directors if the LLM does something reprehensible).
At that point we can tax them properly, fight the monopolies that want to own and control everything, and insert some less centralised human control.
This has nothing to do with your comment, but it made me think it up.
The owners can just divide the income among enough agents that they fall into the lowest tax bracket. The real solution is to properly tax excessive profits and unrealized gains.
I misread the comment a bit, I thought they meant tax like a person. I wouldn't put it past the owners to have their agents apply for small business grants or some other exemption.
Based, on the analysis by ageless Linux, I'd say probably. Maybe not for images that don't contain an "application that may be run or directed by a user on a computer, a mobile device, or any other general purpose computing device that can access a covered application store or download an application". So, I guess an offline-test-build image might not be.
Unless you have a minimal docker image, it will have a package manager. And the OS images used in data centers also have a full blown distro more often than not. But I'm pretty sure the definition is going to be tweaked, because the level of chaos it would cause otherwise would be unfathomable.
The Californian law doesn't say anything about verification, though the current version says the OS account setup must be accessible and require a date or age to be filled, which taken at face value would screw headless installations. But that will probably be fixed in the final version.
I recently installed gentoo on an ibook G4 (it was the last one they made, so the fastest). It took me a week to get it all compiled and installed and I ended up not setting up GRUB properly. It worked out in the end and taught me a lot about GNU/Linux so all in all it was a win
9fronts docs are hilarious. I'd consider using it if using plan 9s userspace wasn't an exercise in torture. Somewhat ought to make a BSD with a plan9ish kernel
I notice a lot of talk about distros without systemd at the moment. But is there a guarantee that the alternative init projects wouldn't also add this "feature"?
Honestly, they seem a lot less shitty culturally in general (less take-over-the-world-y). It's not a guarantee, of course, but they're probably less likely to do that.
Also (and perhaps more importantly), once you're on any alternative init, you can move between init systems pretty easily (though you may have to rewrite any custom scripts you wrote, sysvinit scripts should be compatible with everything). It's just the init system you're swapping out, and not all sorts of random system stuff like systemd's got its tentacles into.
We use OpenRC on stock Debian. It actually works pretty well, and I'm REALLY hoping it stays that way.
Ditto. I run OpenRC{,-init} on Gentoo and it's really simple. Even managed to swap my system to systemd to prove intune can be run (that garbage links directly to systemd, unfortunately). Proved my point, it didn't go anywhere, now back to openrc.
Once it clicks how much cruft you don't even compile in - and as such how much cruft cannot be exploited - there's no going back.
The only arch machine I have left is the one for steam - couldn't be bothered to add multilib to my binhost. But even that seems to be on the path of deprecation as I've read this morning about wine releasing wow64 support. I think the day of 100% Gentoo infra in my household is actually getting close!
Arch yes, nix no. It's about the age of the user base, not the age of the distro. Arch is popular with gamer children, and completely unsuited for any professional use, while nixos is the complete opposite.
And you wouldn't guess it, but both of those are older than ubuntu and fedora.
I have a pi 500+ at my dads house to use when I'm there as well as so my dad doesn't have to bother my brother for his laptop to use word. It runs libreoffice fine enough and despite being a bit choppy firefox works fine. I only wish it had tactile switches instead of clicky.
84 Comments
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 115 pts · 162d
I ain't got time to fuck about with the busted ass packages and random shit breaking while looking after kids and improving my portfolio to get a job that doesn't want to make me kill myself in this fucking global economy. I had NyArch installed on my wifes computer (alongside Mint DE and Regular mint) until it stopped booting for no reason. Allright, whichever version of mint she liked better it is then.
Stupid catgirls.
MissesAutumnRains@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 60 pts · 162d
casually searches for the catgirl distro to completely upend my life for a weekend
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 162d
I literally put the name of it in the post. it's nyarch
fartographer@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 161d
Bad kitty! We don't attack people who missed a proper noun within Linux noun & pronoun soup. - sprays screen cleaner on username -
W98BSoD@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 161d
not_IO@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 161d
bro knows how to get the catgirls to comment 😏
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 162d
Mrrrroooow :3
puppycat@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 162d
oh i remember this and the
edit: i... made a mistake?
forestbeasts@pawb.social · 2 pts · 161d
(edit: I thought you meant looking at tiny distros to get away from systemd, as opposed to the big-name ones which pretty much all use systemd. ignore this if not)
We use OpenRC on stock Debian. After some annoying initial setup hurdles it actually works pretty well, and I don't think it's gonna break randomly on us.
So that might be an option, too. As long as Debian doesn't remove the sysvinit scripts because "oh everyone's using systemd now"...
-- Frost
mghackerlady@leminal.space · 1 pts · 156d
nya :3
Nikki@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 161d
meow
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 161d
I may be stupid but at least I am not dumb :3
this@sh.itjust.works · 82 pts · 162d
I want to know if docker containers and kubernetes pods count as operating systems. If us plebs are forced to manually age verify, then Google should also be forced to have a human manually verify the age of the owner every time one of their pods spins up. I know it wont happen but imagine how hilarious it would be if we could hold them to that standard.
horn_e4_beaver@discuss.tchncs.de · 27 pts · 162d
LLMs agents should be treated like incorporated individuals. Each agent should be forced to earn income, file accounts and tax returns, and have human directors who are legally liable for its actions (and be disqualified to be future directors if the LLM does something reprehensible).
At that point we can tax them properly, fight the monopolies that want to own and control everything, and insert some less centralised human control.
This has nothing to do with your comment, but it made me think it up.
anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 161d
The owners can just divide the income among enough agents that they fall into the lowest tax bracket. The real solution is to properly tax excessive profits and unrealized gains.
0x0@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 161d
Yup.
horn_e4_beaver@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 161d
Corporations have tax brackets where you come from?
anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 161d
I misread the comment a bit, I thought they meant tax like a person. I wouldn't put it past the owners to have their agents apply for small business grants or some other exemption.
bss03@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 161d
That would be the worst plan since corporations became legal persons.
badgermurphy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 161d
bss03@infosec.pub · 15 pts · 162d
Based, on the analysis by ageless Linux, I'd say probably. Maybe not for images that don't contain an "application that may be run or directed by a user on a computer, a mobile device, or any other general purpose computing device that can access a covered application store or download an application". So, I guess an offline-test-build image might not be.
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 2 pts · 161d
Unless you have a minimal docker image, it will have a package manager. And the OS images used in data centers also have a full blown distro more often than not. But I'm pretty sure the definition is going to be tweaked, because the level of chaos it would cause otherwise would be unfathomable.
CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 162d
Allowlists are for the owner class only
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 3 pts · 161d
The Californian law doesn't say anything about verification, though the current version says the OS account setup must be accessible and require a date or age to be filled, which taken at face value would screw headless installations. But that will probably be fixed in the final version.
Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 161d
being accessible headless is still accessible
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 1 pts · 161d
But being required to present an interface at account creation is not compatible with large scale orchestration.
Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 160d
a headless interface is still an interface
shittydwarf@sh.itjust.works · 79 pts · 162d
sunglocto@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 39 pts · 162d
I installed Debian on a computer when I was 15
Speculater@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 162d
And got it running by the time you could vote. So the math would work.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 162d
And gentoo was still compiling.
0x0@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 161d
Aw fuck Gentoo's murican... time for an alternative i guess.
aloofPenguin@piefed.world · 1 pts · 161d
heard that arch was Canadian (originated from)
0x0@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 161d
If i really can't use Gentoo i'll still have Slackware... oh.
Well Devuan's EU/global and i guess i could try Artix.
And OpenBSD's canadian.
mghackerlady@leminal.space · 1 pts · 156d
I recently installed gentoo on an ibook G4 (it was the last one they made, so the fastest). It took me a week to get it all compiled and installed and I ended up not setting up GRUB properly. It worked out in the end and taught me a lot about GNU/Linux so all in all it was a win
plateee@piefed.social · 5 pts · 162d
I did a Debian 2.1 net install over a 56k dial up connection in high school. It was glorious and painful and I never looked back.
pmk@piefed.ca · 27 pts · 162d
9front is the only OS I know that actually has a minimum age recommendation on their web landing page: "Ages: 5 & Up"
Virtvirt588@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 162d
Unlike the state mandated garbage, this OS is more realistic with the capabilities and expectations of its users.
mghackerlady@leminal.space · 1 pts · 156d
9fronts docs are hilarious. I'd consider using it if using plan 9s userspace wasn't an exercise in torture. Somewhat ought to make a BSD with a plan9ish kernel
Dadifer@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 162d
First of all, fuck you.
not_IO@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 161d
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 22 pts · 161d
TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 161d
Hannah Montana Linux, anyone who knows Hannah Montana is probably over 18 by now
BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 162d
What about Slackware, LFS or BSD?
Im_old@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 162d
Ah, the nursing home stage
mghackerlady@leminal.space · 1 pts · 156d
aw man and I just turned [redacted for privacy, age under 20]
redsand@infosec.pub · 12 pts · 161d
Devuan is debian without systemd for those intrested. OpenRC is pretty nice.
EatMyPixelDust@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 161d
I notice a lot of talk about distros without systemd at the moment. But is there a guarantee that the alternative init projects wouldn't also add this "feature"?
forestbeasts@pawb.social · 7 pts · 161d
Honestly, they seem a lot less shitty culturally in general (less take-over-the-world-y). It's not a guarantee, of course, but they're probably less likely to do that.
Also (and perhaps more importantly), once you're on any alternative init, you can move between init systems pretty easily (though you may have to rewrite any custom scripts you wrote, sysvinit scripts should be compatible with everything). It's just the init system you're swapping out, and not all sorts of random system stuff like systemd's got its tentacles into.
We use OpenRC on stock Debian. It actually works pretty well, and I'm REALLY hoping it stays that way.
-- Frost
Illecors@lemmy.cafe · 3 pts · 161d
Ditto. I run OpenRC{,-init} on Gentoo and it's really simple. Even managed to swap my system to systemd to prove intune can be run (that garbage links directly to systemd, unfortunately). Proved my point, it didn't go anywhere, now back to openrc.
forestbeasts@pawb.social · 2 pts · 161d
Hah, even after switching to openrc we've still got libsystemd0 on our system for some reason, so I bet intune would still work!
Gentoo looks pretty awesome, I've been thinking about trying it at some point.
-- Frost
Illecors@lemmy.cafe · 3 pts · 161d
Don't. It's a drug!
Once it clicks how much cruft you don't even compile in - and as such how much cruft cannot be exploited - there's no going back.
The only arch machine I have left is the one for steam - couldn't be bothered to add multilib to my binhost. But even that seems to be on the path of deprecation as I've read this morning about wine releasing wow64 support. I think the day of 100% Gentoo infra in my household is actually getting close!
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 161d
Depends on their purpose. Devuan is specifically to be debian without systemd and nothing else.
It's kinda shitty to install though, I fucked it up. Gonna try again at some point, but it's not an easy install like mint
redsand@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 161d
It's not a compeditor to mint. It's for server use like cent and debian. I don't know of any super easy openRC distros for general use.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 161d
Well, from my perspective, simple install processes are not related to what the purpose of the os is meant to be.
redsand@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 161d
Server OS often has no GUI. Installs are often unattended or over ssh
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 161d
ok. Since you know, why don't you share this with me so I know what to do.
I've got linux mint on my home's trashtop. I failed the gui installer from the live usb. I have a debian machine I use as my daily driver.
Pretend the trashtop is a server. what do I need to do in order to SSH into it in order to install devuan?
redsand@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 161d
Lookup a headless install then add wayland and a DE
bss03@infosec.pub · 11 pts · 162d
My Debian installation on my desktop is nearly old enough to drink: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=895686 should be accurate for all vim users. 😅
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 162d
Fedora myself, so I'm at least 22 verifiably.
Eat_Your_Paisley@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 162d
So does that mean Arch and Nix should absolutely require age verification?
slazer2au@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 162d
Arch, no.
PopOS, yes.
bobo@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 161d
Arch yes, nix no. It's about the age of the user base, not the age of the distro. Arch is popular with gamer children, and completely unsuited for any professional use, while nixos is the complete opposite.
And you wouldn't guess it, but both of those are older than ubuntu and fedora.
Eat_Your_Paisley@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 161d
Thank you for taking my comment very seriously, then lecturing me
bobo@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 161d
You're welcome!
Did you also know that arch is used for the popular gaming platform - the steamdeck?
On the other hand nixos is used in the corporate environment, and is too complex for children to set up.
CaptPretentious@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 162d
Yes. Now if you used Gentoo btw, then no.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 8 pts · 161d
It's funny because Debian was the first Linux distro I ever installed and used.
Very shortly after my 14th birthday.
acchariya@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 161d
Admit it though it was wheezy or pre wheezy, so the age verification checks out
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 161d
I think it must have been Etch, though I had to look at a versions table to figure that out.
bryndos@fedia.io · 7 pts · 161d
raspberry pies basically debian, and they used to be aimed at kids back when they were good.
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 161d
my first pc was a raspberry pi
mghackerlady@leminal.space · 2 pts · 156d
I have a pi 500+ at my dads house to use when I'm there as well as so my dad doesn't have to bother my brother for his laptop to use word. It runs libreoffice fine enough and despite being a bit choppy firefox works fine. I only wish it had tactile switches instead of clicky.
MrSulu@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 161d
I feel both outraged and pleased. That must be my age too
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 161d
i don't know why y'all whining. just fork your own project and don't do age verification you lazy cunts
JustARegularNerd@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 161d
Devuan boutta get an influx of new users
fubarx@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 161d
"Free Walkers for System V users."
0x0@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 161d
What? Slackware ain't good enough for you?
Marduk73@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 162d
I just lift my cap and point to the gray hair
Digit@lemmy.wtf · 4 pts · 161d
I got a similar whimsical comment when asking in CRUX's irc chan.
It's not valid though. That casual ageism. Loads of youngsters use such things. Best time to start. Old dogs learn tricks harder.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 162d
i mean i installed my first OS at age... fuck i don't remember my teens well enough anymore. sometime in that age range.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 162d
But the comma splice is grounds for rebuttal.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
So, me having started with Slackware and a 0.97 kernel should be enough to have earned my retirement.
mavu@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 161d
Ouch!
sanbdra@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 161d
Running Debian is basically a lifetime achievement badge at this point 😄
wizzkidd@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 161d
I wonder if age verification would have been fine if done in a privacy friendly manner..