Not really a surprise to be honest, already back at the time of COVID he asked full executive authority during the crisis only to relinquish them once the crisis was solved (or anway back under control).
Not that this assolve him from everything wrong (or bad) he did obviously.
That takes a lot of initiatives and some time but critically it also requires us to stay togetger and strengthen cooperation within the EU. That is also actually exactly why the propaganda you are falling for is trying to destroy this cooperation and the EU.
There is a lot going on and many efforts have accelerated in recent years: rapid transition to renewable energy, Gallileo, Iris2, stronger EU based defense cooperation, contingency trade framework with other global players, Digital Euro and Wero, recent push by France to fully replace Windows, Teams, MS Office in public adminustration (which later on also delivers the blueprint for the private sector to enable transition to sovereign solutions) ...
That is also actually exactly why the propaganda you are falling for is trying to destroy this cooperation and the EU.
If the US control the politicians then what good is strong cooperation?
rapid transition to renewable energy
Germany stopped nuclear energy and inhibited itself for solar energy.
stronger EU based defense cooperation
Nato has right of first rejection to take over conflicts, with an US general at the top.
contingency trade framework with other global players,
Mercosur didn't look like we dare to fully cooperate with the backyard of the US.
To me it looks like we are doing something but only enough that it looks like progress.
E.g. solar energy, the Spanish blackout has shown that we cannot transport Spanish solar energy to the rest of the EU. Why do we have that limit if we care about independence? This is Trump's second term. We had been warned.
You do realize that it was the US, too, backing the Orbans there, right?
Yes. I think the US is fully lucid about Trump and they were sending Vance to finish Orban. They must still remember how Tesla tanked after Musk supported Trump.
I am puzzled by Orban. He needed the votes of the center. How can he believe that Vance helps?
On the other side the US have fully embraced disinformation. Trump is seen as working for Putin while taking out Putin's allies.
What people believe doesn't matter, as long as they are divided. The US switched to coercion. They accept to be hated by the population as long as countries still have to cooperate.
For the unity of the EU, the election is a success. My fear is that the US has been prepared and is controlling the top. Then that unity will be a disadvantage.
That is an easy one. Putin would have no problem with a corrupt EU, nor would Trump, yet they absolutely loath the EU.
Also on a systematic level your idea is just deeply uninformed. The EU is an extremely multi-centric institution, pretty much the opposite of an authoriatirian state after Gleichschaltung where everything is super centralised and you only have to corrupt very few to get the result you want. That by itself makes corruption extremely expensive and also risky (as there are so many eyes on the process) because you have to corrupt so many different players to get the result you want. Another reason why Trump and Putin try so hysterically to destroy the EU, other than the capability of the EU to create unified action, even if it arises out of such a multicentric machinery.
the way the US and Russian regime want you to view.
They have fundamentally different goals.
The US have deep influence on the established parties. The politicians and managers are part of their networks like the world economic forum.
Russia can only try to disrupt this by supporting new parties that are a threat to the established parties.
The US want a dysfunctional EU with a working economy but with bad enough living conditions that their own workers don't get envious.
Russia is the junior partner to the EU and thus can accept a functional EU as long as they are treated as an equal. However as long as they remain independent they will always be a risk to other EU countries because they could become the biggest economy.
To Russia, the EU under US control is a threat whereas an independent EU can be a partner.
Trump has turned the US into a threat to the EU but the US have not been fond of an independent EU for a long time.
But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.
There is no such thing as a dysfunctional EU with a working economy. The economy of the member states rests on the Single Market which rests on a functioning political Union. There goes already one assumption.
To think Russia considers being a "junior partner to the EU" is borderline delusional. Russia needs the EU functionally destroyed, consequences be dammed because it absolutely insists on rebuilding its empire and oppressing as well as exploiting half of Europe in the process in the mid to long term as great power. This is only possible with the EU being functionally destroyed because it needs to divide and rule for that goal to be achievable.
You insisting that the EU is under US control is detached from reality, when the US has not only turned openly hostile towards the EU, and started supporting the very same forces that Russia is supporting which do not aim for an indpendent EU but the opposite, a dysfunctional EU with national capitals being bought by foreign powers. Also there have been numerous major areas of policy making that Washington DC is absolutely furious about. If that is what an institution controlled by the US does, you have a curious definition of "controlled".
There is no such thing as a dysfunctional EU with a working economy
The EU ignored the digital dependency on the US for years. That seems dysfunctional to me.
needs the EU functionally destroyed, consequences be dammed because it absolutely insists on rebuilding its empire
That was different in 2001, when Putin gave a speech to the German parliament.
oppressing as well as exploiting half of Europe
What's your reason for believing this?
If that is what an institution controlled by the US does, you have a curious definition of “controlled”.
The EU is not an American colony. The US control with whatever they have. That's chaotic. The US have influence on every major party, at least in Germany. I have read stories about each one. Of course they start taking over the parties that Russia supports once they become relevant.
That is what I also want. So let us pull the Overton window back. Talking to these people, constantly on them. They need to be exposed to our views more than to the views of fascists.
It's not just Magyar though. We elected the party that was built from the ground up, without any members of the former corrupt leading or opposition parties. Lots of independent business owners and academics. It was a vote for Tisza, and Magyar is the PM with a very strong moral compass towards anti-corruption.
Yes he is. But thats just Hungary, they are the manifestation of nationalism. You could make a left-leaning candidate go up against literal Hitler and Hitler would probably win. So Im pretty happy that it turned out this way, Magyar can make some meaningful changes which may pave the way for more future changes. Cant do a 180° to a whole country overnight.
I'm not Hungarian but I was at Batthany ter from 6PM to 2AM and experiencing history by yourself is much different than seeing it on TV. There was a group of high schoolers in front of me who were hugging among eachother constantly once they knew Tisza won, broke my heart.
When I was coming back, on the shuttle bus to Warsaw Chopin a Hungarian woman was watching a recap of the election night smiling, and when a bird's eye video of the crowd appeared she was shaking her head in disbelief/pride. Yes, I was watching her phone from above - standing - while she was sitting, shut up
With those kind of rosy-eyed stories in Poland we say "and then the bus driver sat up and started clapping" and indeed I may be on an emotional high compared to people who just saw the facts on TV, though I don't even feel a fraction of some Hungarians may be feeling.
Also I couldn't join in on any of the chants but the simplest "-ria, -ria, Hungaria" lol
So he does have a two third majority... maybe call me a pessimist, but i believe that orban is either gonna make spme kind of law before where magyar needs more than two third to change something or there is something else going on in the background. I mean, Orban would most likely land in prison if the state really would change?
Depends on the generation. Older or earlier emigrants are Orbanists for sure. More recent ones are not.
My childhood friend who fucked off to Canada, got kicked out and banned from ever entering again, and now lives in Florida, is a massive Trumper, immigrant hater (ironic), and a reservist-dependa. She voted for Orbán every time.
63 Comments
irate944@piefed.social · 37 pts · 138d
Well done! Congrats to our Hungarian friends!
slaacaa@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 137d
Thank you! Absolutely incredible, 79.5% voter turnout - people really had enough of Orban
rafoix@lemmy.zip · 29 pts · 138d
JD did a great job. lol
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 137d
fuck that this ain't his victory
EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 137d
fullsquare@awful.systems · 5 pts · 137d
new and terrifying american weapon
trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 137d
I didn't imagine in my wildest dreams that fucking someone's couch could have such a consequential impact.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 137d
the only one i will credit him with a "victory" is antipoping a pope
EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 137d
I think you're missing the joke
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 137d
Oh I get it, I just refuse to give a victory that belongs to the people of Hungary to Jadie Vance.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 137d
he was able to reap the popes soul, and death touched an election chances of orban.
slaacaa@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 137d
Thanks for the assist!
Melchior@feddit.org · 25 pts · 137d
When even Orban is better then Trump...
slaacaa@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 137d
Tbf this was a jawdropping surprise for us, but happy to take the win
gian@lemmy.grys.it · 0 pts · 136d
Not really a surprise to be honest, already back at the time of COVID he asked full executive authority during the crisis only to relinquish them once the crisis was solved (or anway back under control).
Not that this assolve him from everything wrong (or bad) he did obviously.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 137d
Today we all europeans shall rejoice! One russian spy down! More to go!
plyth@feddit.org · -18 pts · 137d
This would be something to celebrate if we would treat collaboration with the US equally.
How does this not end in the total dependency on the US?
orgrinrt@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 137d
You do realize that it was the US, too, backing the Orbans there, right?
Jiral@lemmy.org · 12 pts · 137d
Psst. Don't confuse our comrade here.
plyth@feddit.org · -4 pts · 137d
Then help me out, please. How is Europe going to become independent?
Jiral@lemmy.org · 6 pts · 137d
That takes a lot of initiatives and some time but critically it also requires us to stay togetger and strengthen cooperation within the EU. That is also actually exactly why the propaganda you are falling for is trying to destroy this cooperation and the EU.
There is a lot going on and many efforts have accelerated in recent years: rapid transition to renewable energy, Gallileo, Iris2, stronger EU based defense cooperation, contingency trade framework with other global players, Digital Euro and Wero, recent push by France to fully replace Windows, Teams, MS Office in public adminustration (which later on also delivers the blueprint for the private sector to enable transition to sovereign solutions) ...
plyth@feddit.org · 1 pts · 133d
If the US control the politicians then what good is strong cooperation?
Germany stopped nuclear energy and inhibited itself for solar energy.
Nato has right of first rejection to take over conflicts, with an US general at the top.
Mercosur didn't look like we dare to fully cooperate with the backyard of the US.
To me it looks like we are doing something but only enough that it looks like progress.
E.g. solar energy, the Spanish blackout has shown that we cannot transport Spanish solar energy to the rest of the EU. Why do we have that limit if we care about independence? This is Trump's second term. We had been warned.
plyth@feddit.org · -5 pts · 137d
Yes. I think the US is fully lucid about Trump and they were sending Vance to finish Orban. They must still remember how Tesla tanked after Musk supported Trump.
I am puzzled by Orban. He needed the votes of the center. How can he believe that Vance helps?
On the other side the US have fully embraced disinformation. Trump is seen as working for Putin while taking out Putin's allies.
What people believe doesn't matter, as long as they are divided. The US switched to coercion. They accept to be hated by the population as long as countries still have to cooperate.
For the unity of the EU, the election is a success. My fear is that the US has been prepared and is controlling the top. Then that unity will be a disadvantage.
Jiral@lemmy.org · 4 pts · 137d
Congratulation, your paranoia has lead you to view the EU exactly in the way the US and Russian regime want you to view.
plyth@feddit.org · 0 pts · 137d
Which is what a corrupt EU would want you to think. How can we actually figure out who is right?
Jiral@lemmy.org · 2 pts · 137d
That is an easy one. Putin would have no problem with a corrupt EU, nor would Trump, yet they absolutely loath the EU. Also on a systematic level your idea is just deeply uninformed. The EU is an extremely multi-centric institution, pretty much the opposite of an authoriatirian state after Gleichschaltung where everything is super centralised and you only have to corrupt very few to get the result you want. That by itself makes corruption extremely expensive and also risky (as there are so many eyes on the process) because you have to corrupt so many different players to get the result you want. Another reason why Trump and Putin try so hysterically to destroy the EU, other than the capability of the EU to create unified action, even if it arises out of such a multicentric machinery.
plyth@feddit.org · 0 pts · 137d
He would, with a EU corrupted by the US.
What about the European Commission?
plyth@feddit.org · -1 pts · 137d
They have fundamentally different goals.
The US have deep influence on the established parties. The politicians and managers are part of their networks like the world economic forum.
Russia can only try to disrupt this by supporting new parties that are a threat to the established parties.
The US want a dysfunctional EU with a working economy but with bad enough living conditions that their own workers don't get envious.
Russia is the junior partner to the EU and thus can accept a functional EU as long as they are treated as an equal. However as long as they remain independent they will always be a risk to other EU countries because they could become the biggest economy.
To Russia, the EU under US control is a threat whereas an independent EU can be a partner.
Trump has turned the US into a threat to the EU but the US have not been fond of an independent EU for a long time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
Jiral@lemmy.org · 3 pts · 137d
There is no such thing as a dysfunctional EU with a working economy. The economy of the member states rests on the Single Market which rests on a functioning political Union. There goes already one assumption.
To think Russia considers being a "junior partner to the EU" is borderline delusional. Russia needs the EU functionally destroyed, consequences be dammed because it absolutely insists on rebuilding its empire and oppressing as well as exploiting half of Europe in the process in the mid to long term as great power. This is only possible with the EU being functionally destroyed because it needs to divide and rule for that goal to be achievable.
You insisting that the EU is under US control is detached from reality, when the US has not only turned openly hostile towards the EU, and started supporting the very same forces that Russia is supporting which do not aim for an indpendent EU but the opposite, a dysfunctional EU with national capitals being bought by foreign powers. Also there have been numerous major areas of policy making that Washington DC is absolutely furious about. If that is what an institution controlled by the US does, you have a curious definition of "controlled".
plyth@feddit.org · -1 pts · 137d
The EU ignored the digital dependency on the US for years. That seems dysfunctional to me.
That was different in 2001, when Putin gave a speech to the German parliament.
What's your reason for believing this?
The EU is not an American colony. The US control with whatever they have. That's chaotic. The US have influence on every major party, at least in Germany. I have read stories about each one. Of course they start taking over the parties that Russia supports once they become relevant.
The EU started as a counter-measure to French-German unity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lys%C3%A9e_Treaty controversy
No EU is better than a dysfunctional EU but a dysfunctional EU is better than a functional one for the US.
huppakee@piefed.social · 21 pts · 138d
It is a real relief, but somehow i have a bad feeling about him 'serving the country from the opposition'.
khannie@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 138d
Magyar may have a supermajority. We'll know in the morning fingers crossed.
rtxn@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 137d
About fucking time. I'm proud to say that I've contributed to this outcome.
I'm gonna go dance in the street now.
AVengefulAxolotl@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 136d
Just like the millions of us. The sun is surely shining brighter
daychilde@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 138d
Good job, Hungary!
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 137d
First let us keep hopes low; we must learn from Labour in the UK to not overpromise.
Riverside@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 136d
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 136d
That is what I also want. So let us pull the Overton window back. Talking to these people, constantly on them. They need to be exposed to our views more than to the views of fascists.
Riverside@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 136d
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 136d
There is a message to be said for multiple people. At the core, it is the same.
ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 137d
Good riddance. But trust is earned, so let's judge the guy until we have seen what he actually did.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 137d
It's not just Magyar though. We elected the party that was built from the ground up, without any members of the former corrupt leading or opposition parties. Lots of independent business owners and academics. It was a vote for Tisza, and Magyar is the PM with a very strong moral compass towards anti-corruption.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 137d
Is new president any good? I heard he is conservative.
tomi000@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 137d
Yes he is. But thats just Hungary, they are the manifestation of nationalism. You could make a left-leaning candidate go up against literal Hitler and Hitler would probably win. So Im pretty happy that it turned out this way, Magyar can make some meaningful changes which may pave the way for more future changes. Cant do a 180° to a whole country overnight.
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 137d
not a consie, center-right to right.
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 137d
That is conservative
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 135d
i treat it as not all conservatives are consies
aka my definition of consie is "a dumb conservative"
MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 132d
But the comment you replied to called him a conservative...
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 131d
yes, he is one and isn't a consie.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 137d
GOOD job hungarians.
BenchpressMuyDebil@szmer.info · 2 pts · 136d
I'm not Hungarian but I was at Batthany ter from 6PM to 2AM and experiencing history by yourself is much different than seeing it on TV. There was a group of high schoolers in front of me who were hugging among eachother constantly once they knew Tisza won, broke my heart.
When I was coming back, on the shuttle bus to Warsaw Chopin a Hungarian woman was watching a recap of the election night smiling, and when a bird's eye video of the crowd appeared she was shaking her head in disbelief/pride. Yes, I was watching her phone from above - standing - while she was sitting, shut up
With those kind of rosy-eyed stories in Poland we say "and then the bus driver sat up and started clapping" and indeed I may be on an emotional high compared to people who just saw the facts on TV, though I don't even feel a fraction of some Hungarians may be feeling.
Also I couldn't join in on any of the chants but the simplest "-ria, -ria, Hungaria" lol
Meridula@europe.pub · 1 pts · 137d
So he does have a two third majority... maybe call me a pessimist, but i believe that orban is either gonna make spme kind of law before where magyar needs more than two third to change something or there is something else going on in the background. I mean, Orban would most likely land in prison if the state really would change?
Stitch0815@feddit.org · 2 pts · 137d
Maybe he is already on a plane to russia
AnnieByniaeth@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 137d
Yes, he does. 69.35%, with just 1.06% left to be counted.
https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2026/orszaggyules-osszetetele
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 137d
Ah, so the supermajority is official now? Great news.
slaacaa@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 137d
Yes. Few seats are close, but votes from abroad are counted when they arrive later, and those usually are not fans of Orban
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 137d
Depends on the generation. Older or earlier emigrants are Orbanists for sure. More recent ones are not.
My childhood friend who fucked off to Canada, got kicked out and banned from ever entering again, and now lives in Florida, is a massive Trumper, immigrant hater (ironic), and a reservist-dependa. She voted for Orbán every time.
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 136d
If Orban is so great then why does that friend not live in Hungary? Curious.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 136d
Because she's a dependapotamus of an American nation guard reservist.
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 136d
Aah, so she's not a strong independent woman then.