Microsoft reveals major price increase for all Surface PCs as RAM crisis continues
https://www.windowscentral.com/hardware/surface/microsoft-reveals-major-price-increases-for-all-surface-pro-laptop-pcs-as-ram-crisis-continues
460 points · 114 comments · view on lemmy.world
114 Comments
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com · 119 pts · 118d
TIL that they still made these
Willoughby@piefed.world · 64 pts · 118d
The slightly older ones make great Linux tablets. I use mine for comics.
thesohoriots@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 118d
Heck, my surface pro 3 makes a great Linux machine. Still tweaking it but the touchscreen works just fine with Mint, so even an old one could probably do just fine.
Doug@piefed.social · 12 pts · 118d
I remember when the first Surface released and Gabe from Penny Arcade was like "wtf this is better than iPad for drawing. why aren't they advertising this aspect of it?"
I don't know if that's still true, but I always tucked it in the back of my mind when I was looking for drawing tablets.
iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 118d
As long as you don't mind the webcam not working, which except for the oldest models seemed to be a constant with the Surface tablets.
Edit: i mean in Linux, as these camera modules are near impossible to support.
HuudaHarkiten@piefed.social · 1 pts · 117d
Saves me the trouble of putting a piece of tape over the camera
iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 117d
On Linux? Why?
HuudaHarkiten@piefed.social · 1 pts · 117d
Because I'm paranoid.
yogurtwrong@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 117d
reddig33@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 118d
Which Surface Pro version do you recommend? Are you using Ubuntu Touch?
Willoughby@piefed.world · 11 pts · 118d
I use a Surface Pro 6, I know of a guy with an 8 on Fedora. Mine's on Cachy with Gnome.
There is a custom kernel you may need to get, https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface
saltesc@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 118d
Gnome kind of makes sense for touch.
I just threw Cachy onto an old Inspiron for a computer to have near me while recording instruments, but a Surface Pro would actually be much better.
How's battery and did MS fix those shit house chargersthey had back when I had a Surface Pro 2?
Willoughby@piefed.world · 1 pts · 118d
Mine's okay, the two little contact idea they had is finicky but a little jiggle and it's good, I do keep the contacts clean, little rubbing alcohol.
FUCKING_CUNO@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 118d
My Go 3 with fedora runs like a charm
k0e3@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 118d
Even as a Surface owner, this came as a surprise. Had no idea they were still in the hardware business.
Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca · 82 pts · 118d
Lol, just as Apple released their lowest cost laptop ever at $600
pycorax@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 118d
Not really sure how big of a difference it makes but isn't the memory on the Neo on the same die as the processor? The A18 Pro is also likely a lot of old binned chips that they've been collecting for a year. I wouldn't be surprises if this completely isolated them from the rising memory costs. Apple really lucked out on the timing of their release. Not that the Neo wouldn't have been an amazing value regardless either way.
GamingChairModel@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 116d
Not actually on the same die, but in the same package, stacked on top using TSMC's Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package (InFO-PoP).
So the memory still needs to be sourced from memory manufacturers, sent to TSMC, and then have TSMC package it all together in a single package. It's unclear whether they had locked up this supply at pre-AI prices, though. The underlying A18 Pro chip/package was annoinced and launched about 18 months ago, so if they had the manufacturing pipeline set up for that they might have kept the contractual rights to continue buying memory at the old prices.
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 118d
And it uses literally the same exact hardware as the iPhone š¤£
Evkob@lemmy.ca · 50 pts · 118d
I honestly feel that's less of a diss on the Neo and more of a statement on how overpowered phones are now, especially considering the limitations placed on mobile OSes.
ripcord@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 118d
Some of the same hardware, yes.
But also - the CPU/GPU in the iPhones are insane.
Compared against a bunch of laptops in the price class from dell, HP, etc and the single-core performance is like 50% higher on the iPhone CPU in the macbook neo.
I can't wait for more ARM CPUs that hit these specs for a reasonable price.
verdi@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 4 pts · 117d
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 117d
As someone who was very excited about ARM several years ago and still is using ARM for half of my homelab equipment, it's unfortunately rapidly become irrelevant. x86 CPUs can now run as efficiently at the same TDP while still beating it in performance with all the benefits of x86. Unless something unforeseen changes, I probably won't be buying any more ARM machines for homelab/server use. Still using what I already own, of course.
RISC-V seems cool though, but not sure that it will be more attractive than x86.
verdi@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 2 pts · 117d
ripcord@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 117d
This seems nonsensical to me. It's physically impossible for ARM competitors to match the performance of Apple ARM?
Not to mention that we're talking about their lowest-specced CPU here and there are far more powerful ones.
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 118d
Those single core performance numbers are entirely benchmaxxed and don't reflect real world performance or reality at all
EDIT: downvoters in denial. They get better synthetic Geekbench numbers compared to some of the latest desktop x86 processors ("beats" 7950X and "meets" 9950X), but get absolutely smoked by those same processors in real use. Maybe your only use of a computer is running Geekbench idk.
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 4 pts · 117d
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+A18+Pro+%28MacBook+Neo%29&id=7232
pycorax@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 116d
Where the heck are you getting these results from because there's absolutely no way these results are real. The M5 Max doesn't even get anywhere near the 9950X much less the A18 Pro.
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 116d
That's exactly my point, yeah. It's ridiculously benchmaxxed.
A18: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/8650702
9950X: https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-9-9950x
7950X: https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/amd-ryzen-9-7950x
pycorax@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 115d
Honestly, do people actually treat geekbench results with anything more than a pinch of salt outside of mobile? I thought people at least use Cinebench for this.
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
I'd guess the downvoters do. The apple fanboys really trying hard to convince themselves that their phone is faster than a 9950X š they'll cling to anything that feeds the delusion
pycorax@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 118d
Not exactly, it's a binned version. 5 GPU cores instead of the 6 on the iPhone. Still, it's pretty impressive for what it's able to do.
dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 117d
Seems you let you bias take over rather than actually knowing why youāre talking about.
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 117d
Except I'm factually correct.
dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 117d
Your words were correct but not your laughing smug face. You said it like it was some kind of own when really it was complementing iPhoneās.
Iāll hate on all the companies in the world, but Iāll do it based on facts and not allow my bias to make me look like a clown, as it did for you here.
Just try and be better is all I ask, else we may as well go hang around on r/conservative with all the other folk that donāt fact check and have no integrity.
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 117d
And I'm supposed to be the biased one who looks like a clown?? š¤£
Brother, we aren't talking about phones, we are talking about laptops. Yes, it is a huge own.
As you've admitted, I'm factually correct.
dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 117d
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 117d
The laptop is extremely mediocre. I wouldn't want a laptop made from an Android phone, either.
Your one downvote isn't a ratio...
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 118d
š¹
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -1 pts · 117d
and its STILL insultingly expensive for what it is.
A laptop with one of the worst modern keyboards with a dated ARM phone soc.. Where have I heard that before.
If the pinebook can exist for $200 in tiny volumes, the macbook with its massive production volume is absolutely a slap in the face. The BOM on that thing can't be more than $200-250 even with the wasteful packaging and marketing.
That should be filling the $399 space the eee pc laptops did. The costs should have diminished down by now.
Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 117d
Huh? The CPU has still one of the highest single core performance benchmarks on the market, especially considering it's fanless. The keyboard is also really good as they got rid of the butterfly in 2019, it is unfortunate, it has no backlight, and RAM is limited to 8 gigabytes. Otherwise, a good deal with how good the screen and speakers are, and solid aluminum build quality
pycorax@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 116d
Man, not OP so I do agree with everything else you said but the keyboard is only passable. Compared to laptops at this price range it is really good but overall? No way that keyboard can be considered good with that god awful key travel. I love my Neo for light tasks but no way I'm using that for any serious typing work.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · -3 pts · 117d
Gee mister I bet you sure do love paying phat margins on commodity goods.
To quote Allan Sugar, you've bought in to the mugs eyeful.
Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 117d
Nah, I buy used ThinkPads for cheap.
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 0 pts · 116d
well, yeah, duh.
TransNeko@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 116d
let me guess... it's got less processing power than an iPod Nano.
Squizzy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
Looks quite the opposite to be fair
TransNeko@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 115d
if it can't run more than 10 active tabs (and a basic program work related program) simultaneously it's a piece of shit.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 74 pts · 117d
And if RAM gets cheaper again, it will stay at this pricepoint.
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 44 pts · 117d
āDue to COVID we are temporarily suspending the trolley service in your trainā. Never returned.
āDue to COVID, we have temporarily removed your inflight magazineā. Never returned.
āDue to COVID, we now temporarily only clean your hotel room if you request itā. Still have to request a room clean.
āDue to COVID, the salad bar has been temporarily suspendedā. Still no salad bar.
āDue to COVID, you now have to book a slot to go to the tipā. Still have to book a slot.
āDue to COVID, the sleeper train has been temporarily suspendedā. Never returned.
These are just the examples I can think of.
Eximius@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 117d
Many of these things don't sound specifically wrong. Just heavily entrenched cultural artifacts that needed a catalyst for change to occur. Which, I, personally, don't mind.
Salad bar and sleeper train is pure evil.
stray@pawb.social · 16 pts · 117d
Here in Sweden the government recently lowered taxes on groceries so that the stores would lower their prices for customers. lol
atrielienz@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 117d
And did the stores lower their prices?
lemmock@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 117d
And the stores lowered their prices, right?
atrielienz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 116d
Are the lower prices in the room with us right now?
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 3 pts · 117d
Groceries have taxes? I assumed basic groceries were zero rated everywhere.
Stiggyman@ani.social · 2 pts · 116d
No here is Denmark it's 25% vat
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 2 pts · 116d
Thats wild, I'm used to zero rating on basic food goods in the UK. Unless its chocolate. That's taxable. Unless its a chocolate cake, thats a basic food again. But a chocolate biscuit attracts tax. Which was the whole thing about jaffa cakes and their tax status was about. Its a cake, therefore a basic food.
Catering, Alcohol, confectionary, crisps and snacks, hot food, sports drinks, ice cream and soft drinks are taxed.
Its all a bit complicated, but the more you can imagine someone eating it in 1910 the more likely its zero rated.
dansemacabreingalone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 117d
Until we kill every billionaire. This turns the gamers
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 24 pts · 118d
i honestly don't know who these things are for. I've never seen anyone using one in person. why the fuck would you put windows on a tablet
imjustmsk@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 118d
Everyone in the Netflix daredevil universe uses it.Ā
dovahking@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 118d
Fisk must be a major shareholder in Microslop.
thethrilloftime69@feddit.online · 13 pts · 118d
I have a surface pro 4. I love these machines. You can use it like a tablet, you can use it like a laptop. It's great for drawing and taking notes by hand.
The only problem is Windows, but that's not a big problem for the average person. The price of the new ones is a problem but I think the form factor is awesome.
T156@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 118d
It's like a better iPad in a way, since you could run full-scale desktop programs on it, and use it like a desktop.
I wouldn't be too surprised if things like surfaces were one of the reasons why Apple seems to be making a push to try and make the iPad functional as a computer on its own.
potustheplant@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 117d
"Only problem" is quite a stretch. Those devices are borderline unrepairable.
AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 118d
I love my Surface Snapdragon X. Battery life up the wazoo and I use it largely as a thin client to windows and linux systems so it lasts forever.
I did debloat it heavily though.
And someone will probably say why not install Linux on it, to which I say...for everything I use I've yet to find a Linux distro that works without hours of custom efforts. I work 7 days a week and don't have time to dive down rabbit holes every day to fix shit like my mouse, or my bluetooth ear buds, or RDP, or parsec, or nomachine, or wifi.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -4 pts · 118d
install the terminal version of claude code and ask it to configure your computer for you. you might think I'm joking until you do this
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 3 pts · 117d
Go ask the robot to bang your wife for you.
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 117d
If ever going to try this, ask to make it a script fully explained, then read it and fully backup before you run.
AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 118d
Yeah...no. I leverage AI tooling daily, but I'm not about to go that far.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 118d
ive been using Linux for 20 years. my assumption is that your barrier is tedious linux usability problems.
my suggestion specifically would be to give it research powers and regular non-root access, have it write configs and answer questions about your system, suggest alternative packages to install etc.
AlecSadler@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 117d
Alright, I'll give this a go on a VM first. If it can solve my RDP-like issues I'll be supremely happy - but to my knowledge, Linux just doesn't support such a thing the way I want to use it.
I'll test this on Ubuntu, Mint, Pop, and Debian to start but let me know if there is a distro you recommend.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 117d
i am an extreme fan of arch, even if for no other reason than the AUR
im not sure about rdp but i remember vnc being the cross platform standard years ago. i have a comet wifi kvm giving me access to a mac mini because i need it for certain tools
ranzispa@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 117d
I had this impression as well, until I had to troubleshoot some problems I was having with the screen. Did not give it root access, but it run a bunch of analysis on the system and within a few minutes it was spitting out configuration files that I just had to copy in the correct directories.
Doing the same myself would have taken me a day on the arch wiki. I've been using Linux for years, when I was on X I was editing the Xorg.conf without looking up the documentation. If you know exactly what the problem is, you'll fix it faster that way. However, if you don't troubleshoot many systems often it is unlikely that you have a structured approach to identifying the problem. LLMs can be quite organised in doing that.
toiletobserver@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 118d
Why would you put it on any computer?
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 118d
I can think of two reasons, but I can't think of any for putting it on a tablet
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 117d
There was a very weird placement on Supernatural on some episodes with a "tech genius". Very jarring how forced it was.
lobut@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 118d
My friends love them. It's more like a laptop than a tablet and they love using the touchscreen as apart of their PC experience. Battery life needs work, at least the Intel ones that they were using.
I have yet to convert them to Linux. I'm working on it though.
ColdWater@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 118d
I would love to have one as a novelty item for installing Linux on it, I always thought using Linux on touchscreen is super cool. but it's expensive as fuck
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 118d
I bought a thinkpad on eBay and it surprised me by being a touch screen version and it just kind of gets in the way you pick up the laptop to move it and you're clicking the mouse all over the place. i disabled it after drawing about 4 cocks
drgeppo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 117d
a friend of mine sold me his semi-new Surface Laptop Go (the original model), and for 400⬠it's a super cool touch screen laptop, using Gnome is super slick, and I am fine to be restricted at 250gb ssd/8gb ram.
but paying it more than double the price would be insane imho
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de · 20 pts · 118d
i have only ever seen one of these family of devices, a literal decade ago
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 117d
I saw one around ten years ago. My boss bought it, used it for a week and bought a new mac.
OS was the main issue for him.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 117d
I might get hate for this,but Windows 8 was the perfect operating system for this device. As soon as I upgraded to 10, none of the fun touch screen stuff was there anymore and I stopped using it.
AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 117d
I used one in school a couple years ago, and I can't deny it was pretty great for it. I like to handwrite my notes, and any math-heavy assignments are way easier to just handwrite, so I used it so all my notes and homework and textbooks could be saved digitally and automatically get backed up to cloud storage. I still use it occasionally as a super light and portable laptop occasionally, but I use a desktop far more often these days.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 117d
I had a Surface Pro 4 when I went to university. I always said if it wasn't for the note taking there was no way I would recommend it. It had all kinds of software issues and eventually it just straight died while I was studying one day. I don't think I've ever had a computer die like that, eventually they just get replaced by being obsolete.
AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 117d
I never really had any issues with mine. I did have it die after about two years when it just stopped charging and/or turning on, never was quite sure where the issue was. But I bought it refurbished and on a steep discount, so I felt I got my money's worth out of it at least and that that was just an inherent risk of cheap refurbished tech. My only real complaint was that it managed the battery really poorly when I tried to put Linux on it, but it ended up being useful to keep one Windows machine around for the occasional one off use, so even that worked out for me in the long run. As someone who'd prefer to run Linux on everything I can, I have to admit I had like zero problems with it until it died.
But if I had to use one with Windows 11 on it, I'd rather learn to live on my smartphone.
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 117d
It seemed popular at the time MS was pushing "Windows is a touch screen OS" phase, before remembering that there are pretty much no Windows apps that are useful with touchscreen, and the only reason they are relevant is 30 years of vital old software that businesses can't throw away.
I think the niche it tried to open was as a drawing tablet, basically being a built in Wacom, but an iPad and Procreate do that job so much better.
Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 117d
The surface actually looked pretty cool when it first came out. To me, at least. Times have changed tho, and windows has leapt in the shitter.
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 118d
Micro$lop*
kboos1@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 118d
But already cost like $1k. I can't figure why anyone would want one. It's like they took the worst things about a tablet and the worst things about a laptop and put them together.
jjlinux@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 117d
I had one of these about 10 years ago. Pretty nice little things. However, since moving to Linux exclusively 8 years ago, I don't miss them at all. Plus, with all the publicly facing bullshit from Microsoft, it blows my kind that people will still spend money on this. Not an Apple fan either, but you can get a very powerful Mac for the sake money.
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 8 pts · 117d
ThƩ surface until 8 included run Linux amazingly. That one thing you have yo give to microslop it know how to make Linux shine. Look for the project surface linux these guys are amazing.
jjlinux@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 115d
Fact š¤£
neblem@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 117d
https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface makes most of the features "just work" in mainstream distros on these devices.
In the laptop that can also be a decent tablet sometimes space, the brand still does really well, though most people are probably fine with tablet that can be a decent laptop sometimes. Hopefully mobile linux projects like mobian and postmarketos allow the later idea have more than iOS and Android as viable options soon.
jjlinux@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 115d
I don't have a tablet precisely for that reason. Until I can have a full Linux driven tablet, I'll keep to phones and computers.
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 3 pts · 114d
Dude I have a good news for ya. Look for refurbished surface until the 8 these beast run Linux amazingly once you use the surface kernel from https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface. I installed waydroid to get androids apps, buy I noticed I start it less and less.
jjlinux@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 114d
Thanks for the tip. I guess I'll dive into eBay and see what I can find. I want 2 Linux tablets, 1 for myself (reading comics and books since I jumped the Kindle ship long ago, watching my Jellyfin library on the couch, etc),and one to put on the wall as a central command center for my Home assistant.
I really appreciate it, because I did let my hate for Microsoft keep me from ever looking in that direction. Thanks so much bud.
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 2 pts · 114d
yeah microsoft is really good at making linux shine
TBi@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 117d
What do you run Linux on?
jjlinux@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 115d
I have a 3 years old System76 Gazelle with an i7 running CachyOS and at the office, also running CachyOS, a Venus UM773 Minisforum with a Ryzen 7735HS.
biggerbogboy@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 118d
Pricing for surfaces was already illogically high, why not add more fuel to the fire?
anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 118d
MS: How many feet do we have because I LOVE SHOOTING THEM!
Hond@piefed.social · 8 pts · 118d
I wasnt even aware that Surface hardware was still a thing.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 118d
Surprising good for small companies that donāt want to deal with hardware maintenance but are already in the m365 ecosystem.
Updates for drivers, firmware, etc comes right from windows update and not from a 3rd party app like dell/hp/lenovo business-oriented devices do.
MIDItheKID@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 118d
I work for an org with ~1700 Surface Laptop 7 ARM deployed. They are actually really nice. Managing them with Intune is a breeze (including BIOS management), and Windows ARM is actually getting 3rd party app support now (Thanks, Apple!)
Yes, yes. Microslop, I know. But we are talking end user computing here.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 118d
I have a lot of win32 to deal with so not exactly ARM friendly but with recent hardware cost increases Iām aiming to support ARM by end of year and begin a real transition next year unless intel can pull a rabbit out of the x86 hat again. Panther lake has me cautiously optimistic.
Reygle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 117d
Do people really buy this trash-teir garbage anymore?
homes@piefed.world · 2 pts · 118d
perfect timing
NoxAstrum@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 116d
Good thing I'm still not interested in buying one, eh?
blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 118d
Isn't Microsoft big enough they could just... make more RAM?
TwitchingCheese@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 118d
They don't make RAM, there's only a very few companies that actually make the chips that go into RAM. Micron, SK Hynix, and Samsung basically make up the entire market and they're not afraid to use that to their advantage.
They've been literally convicted of price fixing in the past as a cartel.
verdi@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 4 pts · 117d
blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 117d
I understand they don't yet. But couldn't they use this demand to get into that industry? Surely they have the resources.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 117d
BlackVenom@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 118d
Dedotated or not dedotated?
But on a serious note, no that would solve problems; they're doing AI and subscriptions instead.