I respectfully disagree. I am currently in a rewatch, and there are two major issues I now have with SG1 (and don't ask me why it didn't bother/I didn't notice before): how much civil oversight over the military is antagonized and how often events or explanations are recapped in dialogue.
In Atlantis, Weir and Woolsey are really respectable civil leaders with authority over the expedition's military and the relationship between military and civil personnel is much more balanced (plus every now and then it leads to interesting conflict).
Also, this frequent summaries and retelling is often a point of critique for more modern shows ("modern shows get made for second screens"). That happens much less in Atlantis.
I respectfully disagree. I am currently in a rewatch, and there are two major issues I now have with SG1 (and don’t ask me why it didn’t bother/I didn’t notice before): how much civil oversight over the military is antagonized ...
I feel like its not so much civilian-oversight that's antagonized but greedy politicians. where Weir is not a politician- she's a scientist and was in charge of the scientific expedition which the military (SGC) was tasked with protecting.
Keep in mind that Woolsey was first introduced as Kinsey's lackey coming in to sabotage the stargate program. His character arc is... wonderful; and he goes from Woolsey-the-antagonist to Woolsey-the-ally (and eventual leader of Atlantis). for his part, Kinsey was subordinate to the Trust (and the oligarchs that formed the Committee/NID before it.)
Which, I do feel like American politicians are... how shall we say... like that.
I feel like its not so much civilian-oversight that's antagonized but greedy politicians.
Partly, yes. But for the most part, the ones in favour of civilian oversight were only greedy politicians, and that was used to frame the whole idea. Also the pure thought of civilian oversight was ridiculed by the protagonists without it being contextualized as a point of debate or something. Remember, there was a whole episode about why the US Air Force was best to control the Stargate program instead of an international comittee.
where Weir is not a politician- she's a scientist
No, Weir was a diplomat, peace activist and expert on international politics, not a scientist. Also, her appearance in SG1 marked a slight change in the show's characterization of civil oversight.
Kinsey is one of my biggest points in this issue. For several seasons, he was the only or leading figure arguing for civil oversight, and when you let only one or a most prominent character represent an idea that character is how the show frames that idea.
Keep in mind that Woolsey was first introduced as Kinsey’s lackey coming in to sabotage the stargate program. His character arc is… wonderful; and he goes from Woolsey-the-antagonist to Woolsey-the-ally (and eventual leader of Atlantis).
Atlantis is set after all of the civilian/military conflicts were hammered out back on earth. The IOA is more stable/reasonable than when the stargate was a US-Russian secret.
i pefer sga continuation of sg1's mission, sg1 by the time it ended , it was already past its prime. the show was reaching by the time Ori was nearing is defeat. SGA had some upcoming storylines if it wasnt cancelled before s6. they already alluded to A,U appearances of enemies in the main universe. also ghost in the machine, repliweir foreshadowed future advanced races in the galaxy.
oh please, who would watch a show about a space station? a commander torn between official duty to earth and being the chosen one to an alien species? episodes i have to watch in order? there isn't a market for a single show like that!
B5 is better sci-fi. It's told as one long cohesive story, so it has a lot of time to explore ideas and themes. It is, however...very cheesy. A lot of the VFX don't hold up, the first season feels like dime store Star Trek before the actors found their characters and the plot kicks into gear, and the fifth season is almost entirely epilogue. But. It's a show you should watch.
Star Trek is very often better television. There's more Trek to be had, and it's easy to find your home in the franchise. Production quality is usually better. It's slightly harder sci-fi, there's usually less hibbity jibbity in it. Star Trek is a lot worse at following an overall story arc, DS9 is the best at it, TOS and TNG were aired before overall stories were invented, VOY infamously failed to implement the story they told us it had, ENT decided fuck it we're Starship Troopers now, and that's the canonical end of the Star Trek franchise.
Well, B5 had a shit ton of production problems. Several actors left, they had run into some pretty dire technical issues, there was a nasty divorce somewhere in there too. Not to mention, the execs decided to say, "Hey, we're canceling next season, so 4's your last one." and then the writers crammed two seasons' worth of story into one. And then, they said, "Sike, you get your 5th season after all."
They planned for actors to come and go...mostly. One interview with the crew I heard, they said they built "trap doors" into the show so that characters could come and go, being replaced with suspiciously similar substitutes. There was supposed to be a way to get Talia back after Bester Psy Corpsed her, remember the weir dude with the transparent head, the "vicker?"
As for the network drama, for once it wasn't that stupid. The network B5 was airing on was shutting down, so their Season 4 would be the last possible to make. So they ripped out all the B plots to get the story wrapped up, which made it feel rushed and stressful, they were getting ready to wrap the show, a couple of the stars got jobs elsewhere, and then another network picked them up for the 5th season. So the B-plot arc, Byron and his telepath cult, get stretched to the main plot of the season, along with some hastily written filler.
Combine that with the shaky first season which consists of a lot of adventure of the day episodes, cheesier production etc. that on first watch feels like dollar store Star Trek, but it's all background for when the plot gets going, and you've got three very strong seasons of sci-fi television.
(/s I like generally like star trek and bab 5 and star was and firefly and most stargate. ST:Discotheque and stuff that runs with it annoys me though.)
61 Comments
Tolookah@discuss.tchncs.de · 49 pts · 131d
stoy@lemmy.zip · 20 pts · 131d
SGA is fun, but SG1 is better
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 131d
I respectfully disagree. I am currently in a rewatch, and there are two major issues I now have with SG1 (and don't ask me why it didn't bother/I didn't notice before): how much civil oversight over the military is antagonized and how often events or explanations are recapped in dialogue.
In Atlantis, Weir and Woolsey are really respectable civil leaders with authority over the expedition's military and the relationship between military and civil personnel is much more balanced (plus every now and then it leads to interesting conflict).
Also, this frequent summaries and retelling is often a point of critique for more modern shows ("modern shows get made for second screens"). That happens much less in Atlantis.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 131d
I feel like its not so much civilian-oversight that's antagonized but greedy politicians. where Weir is not a politician- she's a scientist and was in charge of the scientific expedition which the military (SGC) was tasked with protecting.
Keep in mind that Woolsey was first introduced as Kinsey's lackey coming in to sabotage the stargate program. His character arc is... wonderful; and he goes from Woolsey-the-antagonist to Woolsey-the-ally (and eventual leader of Atlantis). for his part, Kinsey was subordinate to the Trust (and the oligarchs that formed the Committee/NID before it.)
Which, I do feel like American politicians are... how shall we say... like that.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 131d
Partly, yes. But for the most part, the ones in favour of civilian oversight were only greedy politicians, and that was used to frame the whole idea. Also the pure thought of civilian oversight was ridiculed by the protagonists without it being contextualized as a point of debate or something. Remember, there was a whole episode about why the US Air Force was best to control the Stargate program instead of an international comittee.
No, Weir was a diplomat, peace activist and expert on international politics, not a scientist. Also, her appearance in SG1 marked a slight change in the show's characterization of civil oversight.
Kinsey is one of my biggest points in this issue. For several seasons, he was the only or leading figure arguing for civil oversight, and when you let only one or a most prominent character represent an idea that character is how the show frames that idea.
SatyrSack@quokk.au · 1 pts · 131d
Steve@startrek.website · 3 pts · 131d
Atlantis is set after all of the civilian/military conflicts were hammered out back on earth. The IOA is more stable/reasonable than when the stargate was a US-Russian secret.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 131d
after the disclosure episode yea, it stabilized and goauld based threats became less threatening.
Tolookah@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 131d
I'm also in the middle of a watch through, started sg1 season 10 this week. (i have enjoyed your crossover memes).
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 131d
i pefer sga continuation of sg1's mission, sg1 by the time it ended , it was already past its prime. the show was reaching by the time Ori was nearing is defeat. SGA had some upcoming storylines if it wasnt cancelled before s6. they already alluded to A,U appearances of enemies in the main universe. also ghost in the machine, repliweir foreshadowed future advanced races in the galaxy.
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 44 pts · 131d
xkbx@startrek.website · 36 pts · 131d
She was on both, too
I mean everyone here probably knew that but PT is ♥_♥
ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 131d
She's a treasure.
autonomous@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 131d
I was so satisfying to see her finally get a chance to be a recurring character after all those stunts and micro-appearences.
marlowe221@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 131d
B5 was a show where a lot of character actors got main/recurring roles and really got the chance to shine.
Sxan@piefed.zip · 35 pts · 131d
Firefly has entered the chat
0ops@piefed.zip · 12 pts · 131d
Bro you're slipping (edit: wait are you done with the thorn thing?)
Sxan@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 131d
Hah! Never! You can have my
bat'lethThorn when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.I just left th here since it's a meme.
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 131d
Good, I never want to change your user tag
Donjuanme@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 131d
Shiny!
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 131d
*þe
Sxan@piefed.zip · 9 pts · 131d
Eh, I make mistakes all þe time, but in general I don't change th in quotes, and since it's a meme... I intentionally left it þis time.
It's funny so many people are catching me out on my mistakes, þough.
Steve@startrek.website · 2 pts · 131d
Its just too short. What if TNG or SG1 only had the first season???
ripcord@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 131d
Season 2 is coming
III@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 129d
The fact Firefly is considered one of the best of all time even with only one season says a lot more in support of it than against it.
EtAl@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 129d
That's what the Firefly comics are for. I don't need any reboot. Those comics are all I need.
Sxan@piefed.zip · 2 pts · 129d
Tell me about it. I still grieve.
wjrii@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 131d
Doors and corners, kid.
autonomous@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 131d
Kosh: They are alone. They are a dying fanbase. We should let them pass.
Sinclair: Who -- the Trek Fans or the Babylon 5 fans?
Kosh: Yes.
AbsolutelyNotSpez@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 131d
I just spilled my morning coffee laughing.
MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca · 26 pts · 131d
"I am Rygel the XVI, Dominar to over 600 billion subjects. I don't need to talk to you!"
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 131d
The imperfection is yours.
Etterra@discuss.online · 5 pts · 131d
Of course, your fluffiness.
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 131d
As a Star trek fan, Babylon 5 IS better........ until season 5.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 131d
That's because they cancelled the show after the 4th season, but then another network picked it up, but they had already rushed the ending.
gjoel@programming.dev · 2 pts · 131d
Oh, so they just have a single bad season? Surely Star Trek doesn't have a single season that's bad. Or entire series that people dislike.
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 125d
They also only have 5 seasons compared to probably hundreds.
acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 125d
What season 5?
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 125d
Oh right, I forgot. It must have just been some fever dream.
_NetNomad@fedia.io · 17 pts · 131d
oh please, who would watch a show about a space station? a commander torn between official duty to earth and being the chosen one to an alien species? episodes i have to watch in order? there isn't a market for a single show like that!
randamumaki@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 129d
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 131d
I can hear the sound effect 😅
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 131d
I'm a fan of both.
B5 is better sci-fi. It's told as one long cohesive story, so it has a lot of time to explore ideas and themes. It is, however...very cheesy. A lot of the VFX don't hold up, the first season feels like dime store Star Trek before the actors found their characters and the plot kicks into gear, and the fifth season is almost entirely epilogue. But. It's a show you should watch.
Star Trek is very often better television. There's more Trek to be had, and it's easy to find your home in the franchise. Production quality is usually better. It's slightly harder sci-fi, there's usually less hibbity jibbity in it. Star Trek is a lot worse at following an overall story arc, DS9 is the best at it, TOS and TNG were aired before overall stories were invented, VOY infamously failed to implement the story they told us it had, ENT decided fuck it we're Starship Troopers now, and that's the canonical end of the Star Trek franchise.
GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 130d
Well, B5 had a shit ton of production problems. Several actors left, they had run into some pretty dire technical issues, there was a nasty divorce somewhere in there too. Not to mention, the execs decided to say, "Hey, we're canceling next season, so 4's your last one." and then the writers crammed two seasons' worth of story into one. And then, they said, "Sike, you get your 5th season after all."
Screw the network.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 129d
They planned for actors to come and go...mostly. One interview with the crew I heard, they said they built "trap doors" into the show so that characters could come and go, being replaced with suspiciously similar substitutes. There was supposed to be a way to get Talia back after Bester Psy Corpsed her, remember the weir dude with the transparent head, the "vicker?"
As for the network drama, for once it wasn't that stupid. The network B5 was airing on was shutting down, so their Season 4 would be the last possible to make. So they ripped out all the B plots to get the story wrapped up, which made it feel rushed and stressful, they were getting ready to wrap the show, a couple of the stars got jobs elsewhere, and then another network picked them up for the 5th season. So the B-plot arc, Byron and his telepath cult, get stretched to the main plot of the season, along with some hastily written filler.
Combine that with the shaky first season which consists of a lot of adventure of the day episodes, cheesier production etc. that on first watch feels like dollar store Star Trek, but it's all background for when the plot gets going, and you've got three very strong seasons of sci-fi television.
lichtmetzger@discuss.tchncs.de · 11 pts · 131d
What did you just say?
nirodhaavidya@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 131d
Say B5 is best!!
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 130d
TEMU beverly is that you?
Etterra@discuss.online · 10 pts · 131d
Farscape: well frell me to hell I guess.
Bumrocky@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 130d
It's "Frell me to Hezmana you sack of dren"
Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de · 8 pts · 131d
Not pictured: Aryn Sun with a Peacekeeper rifle trained on her head.
valen@piefed.social · 8 pts · 131d
She's right though
BillyClark@piefed.social · 7 pts · 131d
President Sheridan is a Star Trek fan?
AbsolutelyNotSpez@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 131d
Bruce Boxleitner is indeed a fan of TOS and friends with William Shatner. :)
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 131d
We all have our faults.
(/s I like generally like star trek and bab 5 and star was and firefly and most stargate. ST:Discotheque and stuff that runs with it annoys me though.)
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 131d
S’okay, she took one of sheridan’s gags and palmed the cap before giving it to the trekie.
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 131d
Yeah, until a bunch of cylons wipes out the station
elephantium@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 129d
Frakkin' toasters.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 131d
That honour belongs to Tsunkatse.
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 131d
With the VFX and the costume choices of B5... I just... Can't...
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 131d
have I seen her naked on outer limits?