Fun fact, the Nicine Creed exists because this question was a legitimate crisis of Christianity. The council of Nicaea determined that Jesus was not created by God but rather "begotten", meaning he was equivalent to God but not the same as God, and has existed for all eternity as part of God
Oh, sure. Mock Christianity. But no one bats an eye when Tolkien retcons half of The Hobbit and gives an excuse like "well the book is written by Bilbo and he lied at first".
I mean, The Hobbit was primarily written to be a children’s bedtime story. The fact that adults latched onto it was sort of an accident. Tolkien was primarily a linguist, not a writer. He developed several fake languages, and wanted an excuse to use them. So he did a ton of world building, just to have a reason to write song lyrics in elvish and dwarven.
Religion started because kids were asking their dad questions. “Daddy why is the sky blue?, Why does the sun move across the sky?, Why why why daddy” “Uh uh some sort of god does that, yeah a god”
And then those kids grew up and still believe that story et voila you got religion.
I dont think so.
The hobbit+lord of the rings are "Tolkien's translation of the red book written by Bilbo and Frodo into English" (not a direct quote). Middle earth is our earth and our history.
I don't think he said "its real bro trust me" like the book of Mormon, but "its real in a fictional real world"
The difference is that, afaik, Christianity has people that believes that Bible is NOT fiction, while nobody thinks that The Hobbit is a historical book.
Don't got why people have all kind of reactions to this when it's literally the most basic knowledge of Christianity, that Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man and that he had to die "so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but have eternal life" because he was literally the only person born without the original sin and didn't sin at all, at the same time he always existed as part of Trinity (the verb/the son) and then "the verb became flesh"
How mfs live their lives in countries of christian majority and are surprised by this?
Honestly if Christianity is not part of your life, why would you know that? I grew up a Christian but “the verb” is very doctrinally specific wording that I’ve never heard before. I think you’re really overestimating the influence that someone else’s religion would have on you
Honestly if Christianity is not part of your life, why would you know that?
Agreed. What i find annoying is people seeding hatred about christianity like it's their full-time job, but then not taking the time to read how any of the religion works. They're the ones who should know how the cited "begotten, not made" factoid works.
That's obviously wrong. I don't need to read Mein Kampf to know that nazism is a bad idea. Sure, it helps, but it's not necessary.
Similarly, I don't need to read the entire corpus of christian theology to understand that the bible is mostly fiction and that christofascists are wrong and awful people (don't get me wrong, those are two separate facts - I don't think all christians are awful).
I don’t need to read Mein Kampf to know that nazism is a bad idea. Sure, it helps, but it’s not necessary.
You need to know the concept of what it gets across, which you presume to with both mein kampf and the Bible because they're very well known books behind very well known ideologies/religions.
Without reading it for yourself, all your criticisms of it are based on an idea of what the text says - this is even true for "mein kampf", no matter how un-nuanced a text it might actually be. Maybe there is something surprising in there that you can actually analyse, an interesting thought experiment. Can't fully interrogate ideas without actually reading them.
Also, I don't think what you've said addresses what my comment was.
No, Mary was the only one born without sin, the immaculate conception. Jesus was from the virgin birth, but I think it was just assumed he was without sin. The more you think about any of this the less sense it makes.
Don't get why people have all kind of reactions to this when it's literally the most basic knowledge of Christianity, that Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man
The reactions are because people are learning that the council's conclusions were controversial. Before the council it was not a dominant view. A large portion of early church fathers (and mothers) would be considered heretics by Nicene Christians.
What's so hard to understand and what causes surprise is that, how the fuck does someone existed all the eternity, but got incarnated, and isn't the same as God, but is 100% God, and had to basically commit suicide because he wanted to save humanity, it's everything so contradictory that I truly don't know how someone can believe in that not ironically
I'm not trying to convirt anyone bcs i'm not even christian, i'm just saying it's the very premise of christianity, like how an eternal fight between good and evil is the premise of gnosticism, the same way the Samsara is a premise to buddhism, and it is to be expected people from christian majoritiy countries would know the basics of their hegemonic religion.
Most Christian countries are not really Christian and filled with people who are Agnostic, Atheist, or just "spiritual" (Which basically means nothing/agnostic)
I even meet "Christians" that know literally nothing about the Bible; I found out recently that my grandmother who is always talking about God, is literally illiterate and knows maybe the story of the Virgin Mary and that's it.
Also, the 100% God and 100% Man thing is a debate that has churches quarreling to this day.
From a logical point of view it's nonsensical and from a faith point of view it's up to interpretation depending on what the stance of your denomination is--which in my experience, most people dont even know to which they belong.
Well shit, I sure fuckin hope so. Better be some dopeass fuckin primo certain powers, too, right up there with the motherfuckin seraphim and shit. None of that “shooting spaghetti out of my fingertips” horseshit. If you’re being rude, I can shoot a laser out of my cock.
71 Comments
rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 95 pts · 3d
Fun fact, the Nicine Creed exists because this question was a legitimate crisis of Christianity. The council of Nicaea determined that Jesus was not created by God but rather "begotten", meaning he was equivalent to God but not the same as God, and has existed for all eternity as part of God
SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 99 pts · 3d
Yeesh,what an illustration of the goofy bullshit people make up to avoid fixing what's actually wrong with their belief systems...
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 3d
Oh, sure. Mock Christianity. But no one bats an eye when Tolkien retcons half of The Hobbit and gives an excuse like "well the book is written by Bilbo and he lied at first".
Carl@anarchist.nexus · 45 pts · 3d
I mean, The Hobbit was primarily written to be a children’s bedtime story. The fact that adults latched onto it was sort of an accident. Tolkien was primarily a linguist, not a writer. He developed several fake languages, and wanted an excuse to use them. So he did a ton of world building, just to have a reason to write song lyrics in elvish and dwarven.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 3d
Allow me to introduce to you.....George Lucas.
wittymyusername@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 3d
Well I’ve already met him, but the first time Jabba the Hut wasn’t in the background, so I’d definitely like a do-over.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 3d
I don't remember anyone telling me that bilbo was the son of God, so I think we can hold different yardsticks here.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 3d
Well of course not. Samwise was the incarnation of all that is good, loyal, and holy. Bilbo was just a prophet.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Hold on there. Wasn't ‘LotR’ supposedly finished by Sam after Frodo dipped?
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 2d
Well, IIRC The Hobbit was initially just a collection of bedtime fairy tales he made up for his children, of course it had inconsistencies.
Actually, thinking about it, that seems like a plausible source of the Old Testament as well...
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Religion started because kids were asking their dad questions. “Daddy why is the sky blue?, Why does the sun move across the sky?, Why why why daddy” “Uh uh some sort of god does that, yeah a god”
And then those kids grew up and still believe that story et voila you got religion.
Redditmodstouchgrass@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 2d
"Damn the boy..."
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 3d
He also does say it's fiction, no?
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 3d
Most stories are fiction until some fool believes it hard enough.
groet@feddit.org · 1 pts · 3d
I dont think so. The hobbit+lord of the rings are "Tolkien's translation of the red book written by Bilbo and Frodo into English" (not a direct quote). Middle earth is our earth and our history.
I don't think he said "its real bro trust me" like the book of Mormon, but "its real in a fictional real world"
Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org · 4 pts · 2d
The difference is that, afaik, Christianity has people that believes that Bible is NOT fiction, while nobody thinks that The Hobbit is a historical book.
Maroon@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
...yet
Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org · 3 pts · 2d
Well, I give you that point...
BUT I HAVE A BETTER ONE: •
0x0@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
Considering these people exist, i wouldn't be so sure...
Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org · 2 pts · 1d
Well... I step back what I said lmao
silasmariner@programming.dev · 2 pts · 2d
What's the retcon in the hobbit?
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
https://sweatingtomordor.wordpress.com/2018/05/17/were-tolkiens-changes-to-the-hobbit-really-a-good-idea/
The ring was just a magic ring. And other stuff.
X@piefed.world · 7 pts · 3d
Not even merging neutron stars can approach the mental gymnastics of the religious. Magnetars all be like, “Dude! Can’t handle it.”
TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip · 39 pts · 3d
JK Rowling level of world building
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2d
Is this why no one in the Bible is trans?
baguettefish@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 3d
what if unlimited games but no games
Lennny@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Vandalismo@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 3d
Don't got why people have all kind of reactions to this when it's literally the most basic knowledge of Christianity, that Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man and that he had to die "so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but have eternal life" because he was literally the only person born without the original sin and didn't sin at all, at the same time he always existed as part of Trinity (the verb/the son) and then "the verb became flesh" How mfs live their lives in countries of christian majority and are surprised by this?
QuantumSparkles@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 3d
Honestly if Christianity is not part of your life, why would you know that? I grew up a Christian but “the verb” is very doctrinally specific wording that I’ve never heard before. I think you’re really overestimating the influence that someone else’s religion would have on you
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d
Agreed. What i find annoying is people seeding hatred about christianity like it's their full-time job, but then not taking the time to read how any of the religion works. They're the ones who should know how the cited "begotten, not made" factoid works.
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 2d
That's obviously wrong. I don't need to read Mein Kampf to know that nazism is a bad idea. Sure, it helps, but it's not necessary.
Similarly, I don't need to read the entire corpus of christian theology to understand that the bible is mostly fiction and that christofascists are wrong and awful people (don't get me wrong, those are two separate facts - I don't think all christians are awful).
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
You need to know the concept of what it gets across, which you presume to with both mein kampf and the Bible because they're very well known books behind very well known ideologies/religions.
Without reading it for yourself, all your criticisms of it are based on an idea of what the text says - this is even true for "mein kampf", no matter how un-nuanced a text it might actually be. Maybe there is something surprising in there that you can actually analyse, an interesting thought experiment. Can't fully interrogate ideas without actually reading them.
Also, I don't think what you've said addresses what my comment was.
Simulation6@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 3d
No, Mary was the only one born without sin, the immaculate conception. Jesus was from the virgin birth, but I think it was just assumed he was without sin. The more you think about any of this the less sense it makes.
Vandalismo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d
I think we both put it in a bad way, i for not mentioning Mary and you for excluding Jesus from being born without sin
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 3d
This belongs in the DSM.
m0darn@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 3d
The reactions are because people are learning that the council's conclusions were controversial. Before the council it was not a dominant view. A large portion of early church fathers (and mothers) would be considered heretics by Nicene Christians.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2d
That makes about as much sense as Trump saying that prices were down by 500%.
RecursiveParadox@piefed.social · 2 pts · 3d
The world's various Orthodox churches would like a word with you....
Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org · 2 pts · 2d
What's so hard to understand and what causes surprise is that, how the fuck does someone existed all the eternity, but got incarnated, and isn't the same as God, but is 100% God, and had to basically commit suicide because he wanted to save humanity, it's everything so contradictory that I truly don't know how someone can believe in that not ironically
Vandalismo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2d
I'm not trying to convirt anyone bcs i'm not even christian, i'm just saying it's the very premise of christianity, like how an eternal fight between good and evil is the premise of gnosticism, the same way the Samsara is a premise to buddhism, and it is to be expected people from christian majoritiy countries would know the basics of their hegemonic religion.
Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org · 1 pts · 2d
Yeah, I understood that, I was just pointing out what's so hard for us to understand
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Going back to the what the OP postulates: what was the ‘original sin’ of Adam upon his creation?
DeadMartyr@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 2d
Most Christian countries are not really Christian and filled with people who are Agnostic, Atheist, or just "spiritual" (Which basically means nothing/agnostic)
I even meet "Christians" that know literally nothing about the Bible; I found out recently that my grandmother who is always talking about God, is literally illiterate and knows maybe the story of the Virgin Mary and that's it.
Also, the 100% God and 100% Man thing is a debate that has churches quarreling to this day.
From a logical point of view it's nonsensical and from a faith point of view it's up to interpretation depending on what the stance of your denomination is--which in my experience, most people dont even know to which they belong.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3d
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 3d
Chuck Norris was the only being to ever exist that could be 200% of anything.
athatet@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 3d
Yeah, 200% fuckin chode
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
Chuck Norris isn't even 100% talented, bitch couldn't be 200% of anything other than cringe
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 3d
woosh
Also, Chuck Norris passed away earlier this year (and has now taken over for Death as ruler in the afterlife, I suppose).
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
The only woosh here is you thinking you're doing anything other than cringeposting a lame meme that wasn't funny 20 years ago.
Rot in piss chuck, you're finally as dead as your lame ass meme. At least now Bruce Lee can finally kick your ass again.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 3d
who hurt you?
saltesc@lemmy.world · 48 pts · 3d
Joseph. The most in-denial man in history.
some_designer_dude@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 3d
The O.G. cuck.
hakunawazo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2d
* The OMG cuck
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev · 7 pts · 3d
Hey man don't kinkshame
QueenHawlSera@piefed.social · 48 pts · 3d
Your underage wife
wittymyusername@lemmy.zip · 43 pts · 3d
Not just the ass, but the oxen and sheep, too!
sundray@lemmus.org · 31 pts · 3d
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 25 pts · 3d
Once you've fucked the Holy Ghost you know where the magic happens. Definitely not with the village carpenter.
Danarchy@lemmy.nz · 16 pts · 3d
When you cuckslurp after god you get certain powers and also sainthood
X@piefed.world · 7 pts · 3d
Well shit, I sure fuckin hope so. Better be some dopeass fuckin primo certain powers, too, right up there with the motherfuckin seraphim and shit. None of that “shooting spaghetti out of my fingertips” horseshit. If you’re being rude, I can shoot a laser out of my cock.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d
I would have happily gone a few more days without ever having heard this expression.
Danarchy@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 2d
Then you will probably feel the same about the related term “manbrosia”
Jimbabwe@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
Please do not elaborate.
spazzman6156@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
Please elaborate!
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 3d
Joseph is a saint?
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
As an atheist from what I picked up over the years: yes.
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 14 pts · 3d
Consistency? Nah! Kind of like Christianity is actually three belief systems in s trenchcoat.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 2 pts · 3d
With some sprinkles of other religions traditions to convert everyone easly
Cum_Rag@fedinsfw.app · 12 pts · 3d
Sorry Joseph I have to cuck you with your virgin wife. I swear this isn't some fantasy of mine
Abyssian@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2d
"And why was God a swan?"
Xeno@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 3d
“I baked you a pie, Mary”
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 3d
Well maybe he couldn't the way he does it.