Yeah, we meet up regularly at places like bars where you can mingle and chat with new people. It's not always easygoing, some of us suck, and disagreement happens, but we're people. Folks who don't believe this are welcome to come check it out, there are always introverts there too, some even of their own volition
Lots of people in here talking about the false dichotomy completely missing the point of the post: Society puts a lot of pressure for people to be extroverted but not the other way around.
Also, as so many people lie somewhere a long the spectrum, and most in the middle, introversion is clearly a useful " skill" as well, or it would have been selected out of the gene pool long, long ago.
Second: many disadvantageous traits that today exist, such as illnesses, exist today despite natural selection. So your dicotomy falls apart.
Third: unlike other "lonely" mammals, humans are known to have evolved in communities: they hunt, defend, and bear offspring in communities (plenty of research work on that). Therefore, social bonds are necessary for survival. Therefore, an individual for which establishing those bonds is comparatively easy, has an advantage.
Fourth: a great deal of the human brain is devoted to communication with other humans. Supporting point three.
Fifth: An obnoxious and loud person that consumes the oxygen of the room is NOT an "extrovert". That's is a moron. I am not aware of research done on that, but I have no doubts either.
Sixth: Being able to spend time with yourself and meditate about your actions, your emotions, and what happens around you without the necessity of yapping about it, is a skill that many people so desperately need.
Not to mention, I heard of a study in an audiobook showing that extroverts don't even allow introverts to jump into the conversation. They fear quiet pauses, so they rush to fill in the space with more talk, not realizing that the introvert had a perfect opportunity to jump in.
Audiobook is 'The Art of Small Talk' by Casey Wilson and Jessica St. Clair. Unfortunately only available in audio.
During the pandemic, our CEO did a company-wide meeting and told us to reach out to extroverts because they were really suffering. And yeah I get that but can't the extroverts just reach out to each other and save everyone else the hassle? I mean that's already kind of their schtick.
I remember saying at the time that the lockdown was basically the world flipping from Extrovert World to Introvert World temporarily, and as an introvert who essentially has to live permanently in Extrovert World it was wild to see how quickly and utterly the extroverts fell apart when they had to exist in Introvert World even for a short while. And it wasn't just like "oh they're unhappy." It felt legit dangerous, they were ready to burn it all to the ground.
A lot of them moved permanently. I live in a podunk state and yeah. When we got the vaccine, there was a whole new crop of established people at the bars and they were all assholes.
Same at our company. People had to get therapy because of how horrible everything was and how hard it was to be isolated and work from home.
Meanwhile I had never been happier in my life. No one interrupted my work, I had all communication in writing on slack, and I could take micro breaks and throw a load in the washer or handle some small task during the day and still get hours to spare and money saved due to not having a commute.
Struggling to find an open grocery store in the middle of the night so I could shop with nobody around, sure. (Lots of formerly 24 hour businesses are still closed by 10 now, annoyingly)
I'm basing it on my own experience and understanding of reality, no "personality typology systems" involved or needed. Not everything is graphable. People talk about getting social energy from interacting with others vs. getting it from being alone, I feel I get social energy from food and sleep, just like the rest of my energy. I enjoy being alone, I enjoy being with people, sometimes I want to do one over the other, but neither predictably more than the other. I get tired from being awake and active for long periods of time, how many people are or aren't around me doesn't change that. Like I don't even think it's a spectrum between the two, that's still forcing an arbitrary dichotomy that I just don't think truly exists. Ultimately it comes down to prescriptivism vs descriptivism, and the latter is always going to be more "true" than the former. It's great if other people find the comparison helpful for understanding themselves and true to their own experiences, I simply don't. And if I don't, I know there are plenty of others that don't, because I'm exceedingly average and no one is that unique.
The majority of people see it as an either/or issue and I'm of the belief that usage defines the tool, not the other way around. To me, that's a false dichotomy. If there are a bunch of other distinct categories people can fall into, extrovert vs introvert is just one set of many possible facets of personality-type interactions to be compared, they're certainly not the two ends of a binary spectrum. Having read this article on intuitive introversion,, I can confidently say that doesn't describe me either. If you feel that article isn't an accurate representation of the archetype, I'd be happy to read something you think is and reconsider. Ultimately though, we might as well skip alI that and you could just read me my horoscope, I'd find it equally useful.
You read. I am not on the clock. I am not here to diagnose you. I do not need to be accurate. I do need to use more examples than just my own on these casual things but I digress.
I did not give you a reading list on purpose. So you wouldn't read it as a Wikipedia article and would instead read with yourself in mind.
I understand your frustration because it is literally mine. But words matter. Personality as described by the laymen usage of only the main attitudes (as in the meme and your gripe) is akin to use a Mendel square in Biology to map out hereditary traits.
A tool of abstract simplification over a vastly more complicated subject. But not a false dichotomy.
P.S. Your horoscope says that your cornflakes are crossing your piss and are being an asshole.
Well you did try to diagnose me, and I found the diagnosis to be wrong, but that's irrelevant. Of course I read with myself in mind, that's how I know it didn't describe me.
Obviously I'm not saying all of Jungian psychology is a false dichotomy, but the way the majority of society interprets and applies it is. If everyone thinks there are only two options when there are innumerable options, that's a false dichotomy.
Yep! My extrovert experience has been largely trying to find the balance between overwhelming/annoying/"too much" and shutting up entirely in awkward shame. It involves lots of trying to make sure I'm not overly talking over introverts, pressuring them to speak more than they're comfortable, not carrying my load of the conversation, or accidentally disappearing from it.
Just because I love socializing and need more of it than others doesn't mean I'm good at it or that I don't have a similar history of social rejection, especially growing up, to a lot of folks online.
There's also a fair bit that's reminiscent of being the designated tall person. I'm able to ask strangers questions without too much difficulty, something some introverts in my life greatly appreciate.
There are so many terms or pairs of opposites that should be totally neutral, but are in fact valued very obviously and often in a completely unspoken and subconscious way.
What I mean is, 'extrovert - introvert': both terms just objectively describe something. They do not value one over the other, and everybody who thinks about it for a few minutes should understand that it's about finding a balance. But society (or something) values 'extrovert' as "good", opposed to 'introvert', and you will find it very hard to overcome that even if you see it.
As I said, there are many more (pairs of) terms like this. Another would be 'freedom - rules'. It's very hard to argue in favor of rules when the other keeps saying "but freedom".
As an introverted night person I really feel this lol. Also society absolutely does not respect any deviation from this. I actually tried it once a few years ago, I was out of work temporarily but I had enough savings that I was okay for a few months, so for the first month I just decided to recharge. Part of that was keeping to my natural sleep cycle, which is to wake up sort of late-morning-early afternoon and then stay up late to like 4-5 in the morning.
I had no work pressure to be up early, so it was only social. I told all my close friends I was doing this, and I was putting my phone on Do Not Disturb while I was asleep, so in the mornings I was essentially unreachable. Almost every single one of them said "Oh yeah no worries" and almost every single one of them ignored it completely and I'd wake up with a bunch of missed calls and texts. Some of them got properly mad. Someone called me and I didn't answer so they came over and started knocking on the door. None of it was for anything important, all of them were told I was going to be asleep.
It's the same for working from home. People just show up wanting to hang out as if you have the day off, or ask you to watch their kid or whatever. Same thing, you can say to them "I am working at my job, if I was in an office would you show up there for this?" And they'll say they understand, then a week or so later it's back to the same thing.
I realize this makes my friends sound horrible lol. They're not, I just meant to illustrate that society in general is really weird about anything that doesn't fit in the normal boundaries.
This is going to sound weird, but: actually shut your mouth. Physically keep it shut. You'll end up talking anyway, and that's okay. When you notice you're talking more than most again, physically shut your mouth.
And when you notice someone else talking, wait until they stop talking before you start. Like actively count to 3 when they have said their last word. Holes in a conversation aren't a bad thing, especially if they are as short as this.
As an extroverted person? Play some online games with the mic on and talk to your team. They'll tell you to shut up constantly, :D
Seriously though, if you get your energy from meeting people like I do. It's important to be self-reflective more and do hobbies that are calming. I can draw for hours and it's amazing or even calligraphy! I've been doing crochet as well now. I just lose hours and it's a nice mindfulness exercise.
If you're concerned about talking too much then I would say just practice listening more. I wouldn't say I interrupt someone when they're talking but I do interrupt the flow sometimes because I can carry silence a lot. Which is kinda why people like having me around (convos don't get boring) ... however, I used to definitely go too far with it. So, it's good to sit back and let conversations and quietness play out and you can see how others would have carried the convo without you. I remember reading about Sir Patrick Stewart about it:
Patrick Stewart has said that playing Jean-Luc Picard changed him as a person. "...I suppose [he] even had some influence on me. I became a better listener than I ever had been as a result of playing Jean-Luc Picard because it was one of the things that he does terrifically well."
I knew I was killing conversations when I hung out with ANOTHER outgoing person and they kept doing what I was doing to a higher degree and I was like, "it's kinda nice having someone carry conversations like this ... at the same time, it's kinda draining because I can't get a word in".
If you don’t already, actively search for some time to spend by yourself. Don’t text people. Don’t go on social media (even here). Do a quiet activity (read a book, draw, write, etc.) or meditate for an hour. Feel only your thoughts.
Next time you’re with a group that isn’t all extroverts, maybe try a mini version of just existing. Appreciate silence.
All I can really think of — I honestly think both parts of these meme are reductive and inaccurate af.
Mine would be: When spending time with introverts, it's okay to not say anything and just quietly spend time together doing your own respective things.
That someone is an introvert or extrovert is a false dichotomy, everyone actually occupies the gray area in between and can fall on different places along that spectrum at different points in their life, or even in different situations through a single day.
Also, feeling put-upon by clickbait articles from garbage publications....c'mon
Introvert means our social batteries run out around people. There’s nothing to fix. We don’t get energy from having to navigate social situations like extroverts do.
But people do consistently tend towards one end of that spectrum or the other. I'm several decades into life and no one would have ever considered me extroverted. My brother is the opposite.
Introversion feels so mainstream now. Anybody remember the "antisocial social club" sweaters? Or all the pop songs about feeling left out at the club/party (Lorde and Charlie XCX have a few of these I think).
I'm pretty sure the internet has a big part to do with it. The introverts loved the internet. You could lurk, find communities around niche interests, post anonymously, etc. And then the internet blew up, and the internet veterans became the cool ones.
I remember explaining to a friend that you don't have to pay for AOL or Microsoft Online to use the internet. And installing TCPIP into the network, and adding dogpile to a browser for them. Flabbergasted.
Take any concept, put it on a spectrum and name both ends, and people will never stop using it as their entire identity. Be just as useful as deciding if we are all gryfindor or slytherin.
Thank you! No part of the intro-extro spectrum accurately describes my personality "type", it's as uselessly nonsensical to me as astrology. If that kind of things helps you live your life without treating others differently, go for it, but I find that's rarely how it goes (case-in-point, this comment section). To me, it's all meaningless pigeonholing.
Yeah, how sociable one feels and what they get out of it depends far more on circumstance than some innate tendency to either seek it or avoid it. If anything, being human means we are all social creatures who to a degree need social interaction to survive. I’m convinced most people who identify with introversion (which seems to be most people on the internet) are actually just under-socialized, out of practice, or tend to be around with people who just kinda suck. Similarly people who identify with extroversion probably already have a lot of friends and are good at navigating social situations because of that, not because they were innately imbued with some secret sauce.
Unfortunately you're up against marketing types, and they don't know how to be quiet. Every time my company has an all hands regional meeting, the chat window is always full of marketing types profusely congratulating each other in public. It's painful to watch
I'm old and late to the neurodivergent thing. It's been interesting and a little comforting to realize that I'm not as weird and alone as I once thought. I've struggled most of my life, not greatly, but still a struggle, to "fit in" with extroverts, because that's all I've seen.Those who are more extrovert are loud and insistent and everywhere it seems, so it's hard to see the rest of us, sometimes, in spite of apparently making up 30% or likely more of the population.
It would have been nice to come to this understanding when I was a teenager when I was really struggling, but that can't be changed.
To the extroverts: you're not superior, you're just different, the same way introverts are not superior, or inferior, just different. I'd wager that the more introverted among us have made much of what we take for granted possible. We're the scientists and engineers, and a bit ironically the ones who are more curious and thoughtful about the world.
There was the "you're an extroverted-introvert" or opposite label also going around for a while, to describe people in the middle.
Best way I heard it described was introverts need quiet time to feel refreshed, while extroverts need social time to recharge. This helps me understand my wife better. I need wind down time, she needs the constant chatter. It is a challenging compromise sometimes 😀
Your empathy apparently doesn't extend to people who don't work like you.
If an analogy helps, think of it like eating: it takes energy to eat and digest food, but afterwards you have more energy. That's what social interaction is like for extroverts.
Yep, if I go too long without enough socializing outside the home I start to just fall into a slump.
And I spent years living a highly internal life, it actually took me until my 20s to learn how much happier and more energetic I am with frequent socialization
There is a small mountain of exactly these kinds of messages on the Internet, shared repeatedly on social media. A lot of them, in fact, are this exact tweet and its clones.
Yelling at extroverts online for being extroverted is a well-established trope at this point, nearly always including the claim that it rarely or never happens.
I am friendly and engaging but there's not a lot of gas in that tank so I typically conserve it for existing friends and family. Strangers get quiet courtesy and won't be shamed into being different.
Oh trust me people are bad at speaking as it is, you guys go full don't talk until spoken to ain't nobody gonna ever say a word again. Good luck in need any communicative moments, gosh you all are just afraid of the fact that your introverted nature has to do with how you feel about yourself and the value of your words. Also, extrovert normally is someone trying to keep things light or spoken up on so we don't get away with bad stuff. So nah. I bartended events with 10s of thousands of people I'm a talker, you need us.
Yes, LemmySchpemmy, keep talking. Do your thing. There's nothing I'd like more to read and answer to. People like you are needed to get all the attention they need.
So, I hope I shielded the bait for everybody else.
We’ve checked six standard dictionaries and all of them list “extrovert” as the principal spelling for someone with an outgoing or gregarious personality, though five include “extravert” as an acceptable variant.
Extravert, on the other hand, is another way of saying extrovert that was originally used by Carl Jung. [...] it appears the most common and proper way to use the term outside of technical journals is with the "o," though who knows; maybe this will develop into an Oxford comma situation.
Thank you for your research. TIL. Language evolves. It's my understanding that the original spelling came from intro (inside) and extra (outside). But that's not a rabbit hole I want to dive in now. (I'll still read introvert with an a in my head. Too old/stubborn to change that ;))
103 Comments
Waterpumpee@lemmus.org · 85 pts · 14d
Imagine a room full of extroverts. This would essentially be a circus without audience.
PRIMEcavitationfetishist@quokk.au · 40 pts · 14d
Its just a horde. Somebody gets lynched within like an hour.
julianwgs@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 13d
The extroverts I met usually get along very well
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 13d
A lot of people can’t tell the difference between extroverts and covert narcissists
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12d
Yeah, we meet up regularly at places like bars where you can mingle and chat with new people. It's not always easygoing, some of us suck, and disagreement happens, but we're people. Folks who don't believe this are welcome to come check it out, there are always introverts there too, some even of their own volition
tatterdemalion@programming.dev · 2 pts · 13d
You think extroverts are incapable of observing and listening?
yxc999@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 13d
Not always but mostly yes
treesapx@lemmy.world · 69 pts · 13d
Lots of people in here talking about the false dichotomy completely missing the point of the post: Society puts a lot of pressure for people to be extroverted but not the other way around.
certified_expert@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 13d
Well, somebody could argument that being social is a necessary/desirable skill for individuals of a species that needs communities to survive/thrive
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12d
You called it a "skill", it's not a skill.
Also, as so many people lie somewhere a long the spectrum, and most in the middle, introversion is clearly a useful " skill" as well, or it would have been selected out of the gene pool long, long ago.
So, what are you trying to say again?
certified_expert@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 12d
First: I am not attacking you.
Second: many disadvantageous traits that today exist, such as illnesses, exist today despite natural selection. So your dicotomy falls apart.
Third: unlike other "lonely" mammals, humans are known to have evolved in communities: they hunt, defend, and bear offspring in communities (plenty of research work on that). Therefore, social bonds are necessary for survival. Therefore, an individual for which establishing those bonds is comparatively easy, has an advantage.
Fourth: a great deal of the human brain is devoted to communication with other humans. Supporting point three.
Fifth: An obnoxious and loud person that consumes the oxygen of the room is NOT an "extrovert". That's is a moron. I am not aware of research done on that, but I have no doubts either.
Sixth: Being able to spend time with yourself and meditate about your actions, your emotions, and what happens around you without the necessity of yapping about it, is a skill that many people so desperately need.
Kudos, my fellow human :)
Echolynx@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 7d
Not to mention, I heard of a study in an audiobook showing that extroverts don't even allow introverts to jump into the conversation. They fear quiet pauses, so they rush to fill in the space with more talk, not realizing that the introvert had a perfect opportunity to jump in.
Audiobook is 'The Art of Small Talk' by Casey Wilson and Jessica St. Clair. Unfortunately only available in audio.
inari@piefed.zip · 57 pts · 14d
It definitely is seen as a problem to be fixed
aphonefriend@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 13d
Because it scares the "others." They don't want your thoughts quiet in your head. They want them out loud where they can assess and judge you.
groucho@retrolemmy.com · 51 pts · 13d
During the pandemic, our CEO did a company-wide meeting and told us to reach out to extroverts because they were really suffering. And yeah I get that but can't the extroverts just reach out to each other and save everyone else the hassle? I mean that's already kind of their schtick.
CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml · 36 pts · 13d
I remember saying at the time that the lockdown was basically the world flipping from Extrovert World to Introvert World temporarily, and as an introvert who essentially has to live permanently in Extrovert World it was wild to see how quickly and utterly the extroverts fell apart when they had to exist in Introvert World even for a short while. And it wasn't just like "oh they're unhappy." It felt legit dangerous, they were ready to burn it all to the ground.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 13d
People were taking flights to podunk US towns just to go to bars because they were all closed in large coastal cities. Crazy.
groucho@retrolemmy.com · 10 pts · 13d
A lot of them moved permanently. I live in a podunk state and yeah. When we got the vaccine, there was a whole new crop of established people at the bars and they were all assholes.
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 13d
As an extrovert it’s like a 1:10 ratio
MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 13d
Same at our company. People had to get therapy because of how horrible everything was and how hard it was to be isolated and work from home.
Meanwhile I had never been happier in my life. No one interrupted my work, I had all communication in writing on slack, and I could take micro breaks and throw a load in the washer or handle some small task during the day and still get hours to spare and money saved due to not having a commute.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 13d
I often think that "return to office" was "extroverts want a captive audience and don't care how miserable they are."
That, and some people really thrive in an environment where their communication lacks a paper trail because they're duplicitous assholes.
groucho@retrolemmy.com · 2 pts · 12d
100%
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 13d
The funny thing is, introverts were struggling too I'm sure, they just didn't tell anyone about it like the extroverts did
merc@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 13d
Being confined to the same house as an extrovert? Yeah, that was struggling.
Soggy@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 13d
Struggling to find an open grocery store in the middle of the night so I could shop with nobody around, sure. (Lots of formerly 24 hour businesses are still closed by 10 now, annoyingly)
Dultas@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 13d
Yeah, I miss not having to remember what time the grocery store closes.
los0220@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 13d
24h grocery stores where awesome during covid. I really miss going shopping at 3 at night.
Now I'm back to: hungry? maybe going to sleep will fix it
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 12d
Well, you'd be wrong about that.
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 13d
You don’t get bonus points for suffering in silence
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 13d
Lol ok?
Rcklsabndn@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 12d
Won't someone think of the social butterflies!?
PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 13d
Well it's a false dichotomy, so they weren't just talking to the introverts.
Promethiel@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 13d
Oversimplified, yes. But false dichotomy?
Which personality typology system are you basing that under, and what other attitude types does it add over extraversion and introversion?
PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 13d
I'm basing it on my own experience and understanding of reality, no "personality typology systems" involved or needed. Not everything is graphable. People talk about getting social energy from interacting with others vs. getting it from being alone, I feel I get social energy from food and sleep, just like the rest of my energy. I enjoy being alone, I enjoy being with people, sometimes I want to do one over the other, but neither predictably more than the other. I get tired from being awake and active for long periods of time, how many people are or aren't around me doesn't change that. Like I don't even think it's a spectrum between the two, that's still forcing an arbitrary dichotomy that I just don't think truly exists. Ultimately it comes down to prescriptivism vs descriptivism, and the latter is always going to be more "true" than the former. It's great if other people find the comparison helpful for understanding themselves and true to their own experiences, I simply don't. And if I don't, I know there are plenty of others that don't, because I'm exceedingly average and no one is that unique.
Promethiel@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 13d
All that you said, is precisely what Jungian Psychology teaches. Like I said, oversimplified, yes. False dichotomy, no.
What you described is known as the intuitive introvert. We don't have a club. Make your own jacket.
PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 13d
The majority of people see it as an either/or issue and I'm of the belief that usage defines the tool, not the other way around. To me, that's a false dichotomy. If there are a bunch of other distinct categories people can fall into, extrovert vs introvert is just one set of many possible facets of personality-type interactions to be compared, they're certainly not the two ends of a binary spectrum. Having read this article on intuitive introversion,, I can confidently say that doesn't describe me either. If you feel that article isn't an accurate representation of the archetype, I'd be happy to read something you think is and reconsider. Ultimately though, we might as well skip alI that and you could just read me my horoscope, I'd find it equally useful.
Promethiel@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 13d
You read. I am not on the clock. I am not here to diagnose you. I do not need to be accurate. I do need to use more examples than just my own on these casual things but I digress.
I did not give you a reading list on purpose. So you wouldn't read it as a Wikipedia article and would instead read with yourself in mind.
I understand your frustration because it is literally mine. But words matter. Personality as described by the laymen usage of only the main attitudes (as in the meme and your gripe) is akin to use a Mendel square in Biology to map out hereditary traits.
A tool of abstract simplification over a vastly more complicated subject. But not a false dichotomy.
P.S. Your horoscope says that your cornflakes are crossing your piss and are being an asshole.
PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12d
Well you did try to diagnose me, and I found the diagnosis to be wrong, but that's irrelevant. Of course I read with myself in mind, that's how I know it didn't describe me.
Obviously I'm not saying all of Jungian psychology is a false dichotomy, but the way the majority of society interprets and applies it is. If everyone thinks there are only two options when there are innumerable options, that's a false dichotomy.
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 32 pts · 13d
"start masking yourself because you make other people uncomfortable"
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 13d
It was fine when extroverts expected introverts to exhaust themselves conforming to a society that values you and not them.
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 13d
But I’m an extrovert and do this too cause there’s way more introverts than extroverts and they all find me overwhelming and/or annoying
Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org · 4 pts · 13d
"There's more introverts than extroverts" hell naw, it's the opposite. There's way more extroverts than introverts in the world, unfortunately
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 13d
Could you be neurodivergent?
quantumcrop@lemmy.today · 15 pts · 13d
We're on lemmy, what do you think?
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 13d
we are all neurodivergent on this blessed day
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 12d
Yep! My extrovert experience has been largely trying to find the balance between overwhelming/annoying/"too much" and shutting up entirely in awkward shame. It involves lots of trying to make sure I'm not overly talking over introverts, pressuring them to speak more than they're comfortable, not carrying my load of the conversation, or accidentally disappearing from it.
Just because I love socializing and need more of it than others doesn't mean I'm good at it or that I don't have a similar history of social rejection, especially growing up, to a lot of folks online.
There's also a fair bit that's reminiscent of being the designated tall person. I'm able to ask strangers questions without too much difficulty, something some introverts in my life greatly appreciate.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 13d
I hate that our society endlessly rewards people that are highly social, early birds with money. I didn't grow up with any of that.
twinnie@feddit.uk · 21 pts · 14d
It’d be like “Extroverted? You’ve got ADHD.”
Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org · 6 pts · 13d
As an introverted ADHD guy, I dissent
A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip · 20 pts · 14d
There are so many terms or pairs of opposites that should be totally neutral, but are in fact valued very obviously and often in a completely unspoken and subconscious way.
What I mean is, 'extrovert - introvert': both terms just objectively describe something. They do not value one over the other, and everybody who thinks about it for a few minutes should understand that it's about finding a balance. But society (or something) values 'extrovert' as "good", opposed to 'introvert', and you will find it very hard to overcome that even if you see it.
As I said, there are many more (pairs of) terms like this. Another would be 'freedom - rules'. It's very hard to argue in favor of rules when the other keeps saying "but freedom".
snooggums@piefed.world · 27 pts · 13d
Society also values waking up early for some reason.
CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 13d
As an introverted night person I really feel this lol. Also society absolutely does not respect any deviation from this. I actually tried it once a few years ago, I was out of work temporarily but I had enough savings that I was okay for a few months, so for the first month I just decided to recharge. Part of that was keeping to my natural sleep cycle, which is to wake up sort of late-morning-early afternoon and then stay up late to like 4-5 in the morning.
I had no work pressure to be up early, so it was only social. I told all my close friends I was doing this, and I was putting my phone on Do Not Disturb while I was asleep, so in the mornings I was essentially unreachable. Almost every single one of them said "Oh yeah no worries" and almost every single one of them ignored it completely and I'd wake up with a bunch of missed calls and texts. Some of them got properly mad. Someone called me and I didn't answer so they came over and started knocking on the door. None of it was for anything important, all of them were told I was going to be asleep.
It's the same for working from home. People just show up wanting to hang out as if you have the day off, or ask you to watch their kid or whatever. Same thing, you can say to them "I am working at my job, if I was in an office would you show up there for this?" And they'll say they understand, then a week or so later it's back to the same thing.
I realize this makes my friends sound horrible lol. They're not, I just meant to illustrate that society in general is really weird about anything that doesn't fit in the normal boundaries.
ollie@pawb.social · 20 pts · 14d
im usually very extroverted, id love an article like that
any tips?
wpb@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 14d
This is going to sound weird, but: actually shut your mouth. Physically keep it shut. You'll end up talking anyway, and that's okay. When you notice you're talking more than most again, physically shut your mouth.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · 28 pts · 14d
And when you notice someone else talking, wait until they stop talking before you start. Like actively count to 3 when they have said their last word. Holes in a conversation aren't a bad thing, especially if they are as short as this.
lobut@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 13d
As an extroverted person? Play some online games with the mic on and talk to your team. They'll tell you to shut up constantly, :D
Seriously though, if you get your energy from meeting people like I do. It's important to be self-reflective more and do hobbies that are calming. I can draw for hours and it's amazing or even calligraphy! I've been doing crochet as well now. I just lose hours and it's a nice mindfulness exercise.
If you're concerned about talking too much then I would say just practice listening more. I wouldn't say I interrupt someone when they're talking but I do interrupt the flow sometimes because I can carry silence a lot. Which is kinda why people like having me around (convos don't get boring) ... however, I used to definitely go too far with it. So, it's good to sit back and let conversations and quietness play out and you can see how others would have carried the convo without you. I remember reading about Sir Patrick Stewart about it:
I knew I was killing conversations when I hung out with ANOTHER outgoing person and they kept doing what I was doing to a higher degree and I was like, "it's kinda nice having someone carry conversations like this ... at the same time, it's kinda draining because I can't get a word in".
aGlassDarkly@piefed.zip · 7 pts · 13d
If you don’t already, actively search for some time to spend by yourself. Don’t text people. Don’t go on social media (even here). Do a quiet activity (read a book, draw, write, etc.) or meditate for an hour. Feel only your thoughts.
Next time you’re with a group that isn’t all extroverts, maybe try a mini version of just existing. Appreciate silence.
All I can really think of — I honestly think both parts of these meme are reductive and inaccurate af.
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 13d
Mine would be: When spending time with introverts, it's okay to not say anything and just quietly spend time together doing your own respective things.
socsa@piefed.social · -1 pts · 13d
protist@retrofed.com · 17 pts · 13d
That someone is an introvert or extrovert is a false dichotomy, everyone actually occupies the gray area in between and can fall on different places along that spectrum at different points in their life, or even in different situations through a single day.
Also, feeling put-upon by clickbait articles from garbage publications....c'mon
architect@thelemmy.club · 22 pts · 13d
Introvert means our social batteries run out around people. There’s nothing to fix. We don’t get energy from having to navigate social situations like extroverts do.
protist@retrofed.com · 4 pts · 13d
I didn't say there's anything to fix, except maybe people's perception of themselves as all one way or the other
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 8 pts · 13d
But people do consistently tend towards one end of that spectrum or the other. I'm several decades into life and no one would have ever considered me extroverted. My brother is the opposite.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 13d
"Learn how to shut the fuck up for like 30 seconds."
hirihit640@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 13d
Introversion feels so mainstream now. Anybody remember the "antisocial social club" sweaters? Or all the pop songs about feeling left out at the club/party (Lorde and Charlie XCX have a few of these I think).
I'm pretty sure the internet has a big part to do with it. The introverts loved the internet. You could lurk, find communities around niche interests, post anonymously, etc. And then the internet blew up, and the internet veterans became the cool ones.
Soggy@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 13d
Internet veteran, and not even a properly old one I just remember AOL on CDs: nah we aren't cool, the net is full of normies now.
Alfredolin@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 13d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
foliumcreations@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 13d
Wow that name invokes more than I feel it should, especially since it refers to continued Usenet adoption. Eternal September.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 13d
I remember explaining to a friend that you don't have to pay for AOL or Microsoft Online to use the internet. And installing TCPIP into the network, and adding dogpile to a browser for them. Flabbergasted.
Elting@piefed.social · 15 pts · 13d
Take any concept, put it on a spectrum and name both ends, and people will never stop using it as their entire identity. Be just as useful as deciding if we are all gryfindor or slytherin.
bran_buckler@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 13d
You gryfindor scum would say that!
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 13d
Just goes to show that everyone falls on a spectrum between providing mutual aid and hurting fascists.
PapaStevesy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 13d
Thank you! No part of the intro-extro spectrum accurately describes my personality "type", it's as uselessly nonsensical to me as astrology. If that kind of things helps you live your life without treating others differently, go for it, but I find that's rarely how it goes (case-in-point, this comment section). To me, it's all meaningless pigeonholing.
Elting@piefed.social · 3 pts · 12d
Yeah, how sociable one feels and what they get out of it depends far more on circumstance than some innate tendency to either seek it or avoid it. If anything, being human means we are all social creatures who to a degree need social interaction to survive. I’m convinced most people who identify with introversion (which seems to be most people on the internet) are actually just under-socialized, out of practice, or tend to be around with people who just kinda suck. Similarly people who identify with extroversion probably already have a lot of friends and are good at navigating social situations because of that, not because they were innately imbued with some secret sauce.
TomMasz@piefed.social · 12 pts · 13d
It's not a disease or character flaw, for fuck's sake.
ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 13d
Annoyed introverts are not convinced
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 9 pts · 13d
Unfortunately you're up against marketing types, and they don't know how to be quiet. Every time my company has an all hands regional meeting, the chat window is always full of marketing types profusely congratulating each other in public. It's painful to watch
PRIMEcavitationfetishist@quokk.au · 8 pts · 14d
Totally extroverted?
Here's the benefits of having friends with interiority who might be real people!
kuiskaaja@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 12d
damn, i've never seen a lemmy post hit 1k upvotes before
Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 12d
I've got a couple that have made it, but most of mine hover in the 200-500 range
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 12d
I'm old and late to the neurodivergent thing. It's been interesting and a little comforting to realize that I'm not as weird and alone as I once thought. I've struggled most of my life, not greatly, but still a struggle, to "fit in" with extroverts, because that's all I've seen.Those who are more extrovert are loud and insistent and everywhere it seems, so it's hard to see the rest of us, sometimes, in spite of apparently making up 30% or likely more of the population.
It would have been nice to come to this understanding when I was a teenager when I was really struggling, but that can't be changed.
To the extroverts: you're not superior, you're just different, the same way introverts are not superior, or inferior, just different. I'd wager that the more introverted among us have made much of what we take for granted possible. We're the scientists and engineers, and a bit ironically the ones who are more curious and thoughtful about the world.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 12d
There was the "you're an extroverted-introvert" or opposite label also going around for a while, to describe people in the middle.
Best way I heard it described was introverts need quiet time to feel refreshed, while extroverts need social time to recharge. This helps me understand my wife better. I need wind down time, she needs the constant chatter. It is a challenging compromise sometimes 😀
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 12d
"You get an ostentatious personality! And you get an ostentatious personality!" /s
FrankFrankson@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 12d
Fuck Oprah and her dumb fucking magazine.
Digit@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 13d
Got me considering making that fit the swimming meme image. Y'know the one.
I don't know if that quite works though. Heh.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 13d
for true. we have become so addicted to external stimulation, that it has become a bad thing to keep to yourself
pseudo@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 13d
Learn japanese.
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 0 pts · 14d
FishFace@piefed.social · 18 pts · 14d
If you think extroverts are inherently unempathetic I think you may have issues.
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · -4 pts · 14d
FishFace@piefed.social · 9 pts · 14d
Your empathy apparently doesn't extend to people who don't work like you.
If an analogy helps, think of it like eating: it takes energy to eat and digest food, but afterwards you have more energy. That's what social interaction is like for extroverts.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12d
Yep, if I go too long without enough socializing outside the home I start to just fall into a slump.
And I spent years living a highly internal life, it actually took me until my 20s to learn how much happier and more energetic I am with frequent socialization
Amputret@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 14d
And you’re the one accusing solipsism?
itrealgood@mander.xyz · 0 pts · 14d
bobbyfiend@retrolemmy.com · -3 pts · 12d
There is a small mountain of exactly these kinds of messages on the Internet, shared repeatedly on social media. A lot of them, in fact, are this exact tweet and its clones.
Yelling at extroverts online for being extroverted is a well-established trope at this point, nearly always including the claim that it rarely or never happens.
Pacattack57@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 13d
“1. Just say hello! It really is that easy. Saying hello to someone you just met can make you seem friendly and engaging.”
Soggy@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 13d
I am friendly and engaging but there's not a lot of gas in that tank so I typically conserve it for existing friends and family. Strangers get quiet courtesy and won't be shamed into being different.
LemmySchpemmy@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 12d
Oh trust me people are bad at speaking as it is, you guys go full don't talk until spoken to ain't nobody gonna ever say a word again. Good luck in need any communicative moments, gosh you all are just afraid of the fact that your introverted nature has to do with how you feel about yourself and the value of your words. Also, extrovert normally is someone trying to keep things light or spoken up on so we don't get away with bad stuff. So nah. I bartended events with 10s of thousands of people I'm a talker, you need us.
anugeshtu@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 12d
Yes, LemmySchpemmy, keep talking. Do your thing. There's nothing I'd like more to read and answer to. People like you are needed to get all the attention they need.
So, I hope I shielded the bait for everybody else.
Primor@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 13d
The spelling is extraverts. Please
nickiwest@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 13d
Not really.
Per Oxford Learner's Dictionaries
bhamlin@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 13d
Extraverts are extroverts that are too extra.
Primor@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 13d
Thank you for your research. TIL. Language evolves. It's my understanding that the original spelling came from intro (inside) and extra (outside). But that's not a rabbit hole I want to dive in now. (I'll still read introvert with an a in my head. Too old/stubborn to change that ;))