If they're opposed to "socialism" as Fox News uses the term because some of the recipients aren't "deserving", they have started far from the words attributed to Jesus and God in the Christian Bible.
“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.”
(And if you think this quote is out of context, go read the chapter. Jesus is depicted literally telling his followers that to get into heaven they need to take care of the poor.)
Technically it is, no? Socialism is community ownership of the means of production which includes labor. And that can arguably be extended to socialized services for labor such has healthcare, public transportation, and grocery stores.
Social democracy is not socialism by any metric, socialism starts at ownership of the means of production by workers, and a state that works for the proletariat and not capitalists. That's the starting point, from there you can then add whatever social programs on top, but if you don't start from there you're still in a bourgeois democracy
I disagree, socialist institutions or services can still exist within a capitalist government, even if it is piecemeal. There doesn't have to be a threshhold to pass for some aspect to be considered socialism.
To expand upon you: examples of such institutions or policies would be free healthcare, universal basic income, but also places like libraries. You could even call (financial) support for housing & children, as well as progressive taxes socialist - despite the system in which they exist being capitalist.
This attitude is why the right is winning. The left, both leftists and liberals, would rather keep gatekeeping what counts as left than actually make any progress to the left.
I mean... I'm not in the US but I always thought that you guys have a right wing and a far right wing party. I don't see any leftist party... so it makes sense that they would be more aligned with fascism than socialism in terms of ideology.
Parties don't control the politicians inside them the same way they might be able to in some other countries. So it's one fascist party and one big tent everything from left to right party
I wish we could stop pretending the US wasn't a fascist nation for a very long time now. It gets old seeing things like "fascist takeover" when it is just different factions within fascism duking it out.
Hmm...do I want a neofascists or more traditional fascist? That is the garbage options we have to vote for.
Its the inevitable end result of a two party system to become like this. There is no mechanism to replace a party in the us, no 3rd options. Having just two and no way to boot ether to the curb without becoming a single party state means that interests can just buy both sides, and the people in both camps win more if they take more from those interests making a nasty feedback loop.
I'm sick of all these fascist plants pretending to be progressive while trying to convince us it's not worth bothering to vote Dem in the upcoming elections because they're all the same. They aren't, and you know they aren't you fucking Nazi.
The progressive movement is having its best year ever in the Democratic primaries and can continue to do so. We need to change the party, yes. But that's secondary to removing power from Trump.
Biden, Obama, and Clinton weren't true leftists. But they sure as shit weren't the dumpster fire we have now and we HAVE to neuter these fuckers in November.
Welp, thanks for that. Clearly you love your team so much that anyone who does not hold your opinions is a "nazi", there can be nothing but vote for your team after all.
You have no idea how absolutely insane you americans sound. This mess is on all of you, and honestly I would rather the us just collapse at this point. You have no ability or will to fix your party of choice let alone your nation. But please prove me wrong, do anything at this point. Vote blue sure at the very minimum, but please understand that you have an administration currently that does everything by decree and ignores your laws and traditions making your vote mean less and less as days pass.
Right. You don't live here and you're wildly ignorant of what's happening here politically, but we're still supposed to take your nonstop bullshit lectures about how Democrats are the real problem and what? Just pretend that you're not full of shit?
The problem is Republicans. Full fucking stop.
If you can't get on board with that, then you're not fucking helping anyone other than yourself.
Have the Dems fucked up a lot? Yes. But short of an actual Civil War, the only way to curb this madness is to vote Dem in November and flip the legislature. The GOP's fascism was hypercharged by targeting the Republican primaries. We can do the same the other direction on the left, and we've had recent success doing just that. And that terrifies the Nazis more than anything.
So they go to our online communities, pretend to be one of us, and try to convince people that the Dems who have failed to stop the GOP are the real problem. The fascists are very active here and elsewhere trying to convince leftists not to vote for the one party that can actually stop the GOP. They say that the Dems are no different than the GOP and try to get the left to split the vote in a manner that will ensure Trump and company win.
Right there you are actively doing what you are accusing others of.
It is not the only way, your american madness is not normal. You claim all online spaces as your own american democrat places, they are not. The world is not putting up with your wild team based bullshit anymore. Fix your shit, its not on the rest of the world to "fall in line" with your views or stop talking or thinking while you do it (or fail to).
We can do the same the other direction on the left....
The very fact that this statement does not terrify you people is wild, you are all so far up your own team based sauce that you can not see that by making "your team = good, their team = evil" is how you are in this mess. You are living in the honest by any measure end of your nation and are upset anyone thinks that the very system that delivered you to this point is not up to the task is peak american.
So fuck me for discussing American politics on a thread about.... American Politics?
Right now there are 2 sides. The fascists currently running the show, and everybody who doesn't support them. I'm specifically saying that eblveryone who doesn't like concentration camps, gestapo, and the blatant, naked corruption of this administration blput aside theor differences and vote for the party that has a chance to stop it without violence.
I'm specifically trying to fix our shit, so kindly get out the fucking way and jerk off to your own superiority elsewhere.
So fuck me for discussing American politics on a thread about… American Politics?
You mean shutting down any and all other options then the status quo?
I watched you all tell people that 2 years ago was not the time, that last year was not the time, that now is not the time. So when do you actually fix anything? Because I can see plain as day that it by design is never the time.
You telling people to "kindly get out the fucking way and jerk off to your own superiority elsewhere." for not agreeing with you is (and this should not shock you) more then a little bit fascist. I will keep doing my part where I am and will continue to comment on american politics on a thread about... american politics.
You were calling me out for discussing American Politics as an American. I personally think I'm entitled to an opinion on my own fucking country's politics, especially when I'm in a position to do something.
All you assholes seem to do is insist that we magic a fix thay cannot happen overnight.
And yeah, 2 years ago we told people to vote against Trump no matter who. But you motherfuckers spent the whole time saying Kamala's nomination wasn't fair, or that the Dems were no worse than the GOP. And it worked and millions stayed home instead of voting for Harris.
That lead dorectly to every fucking thing that's happened under Trump's watch, from wars of choice to gestapo takeovers of American cities, to the murder of hundreds of civilians in fishing boats, to worldwide economic catatrophe, to the deaths of millions from USAID cuts, to the collapse of food safety regulations, and so, so much more.
And their magic solution is always to do nothing, not support the Democrats, and see if total collapse is better than fixing anything.
The crazy part is, you literally can't tell which ones are just teenager morons and which ones are literal fascists, because an adult fascist THINKS LIKE a fucking teenaged moron. So good luck sorting out which of these people means well but is a teenaged idiot, and which ones are the actual fascists.
They make the same arguments with the same flawed logic because they have the same brain limitations.
Yeah I'm almost 100% positive at this point that Hakeem Jeffries is one such GOP plant (among others, he just stands out the most to me). He goes against everything the Democratic party cares about.
They get together with their friends from across the aisle and count votes to ensure everyone has a chance to stay in power together. Every single time, 5-6 random democrats vote with their best buddies from across the aisle.
And then people like you come online and carry their water.
Just maybe stop posting if you want to defend the “good guy” in their little good cop bad cop ruse.
They weren't leftists, or anything close, but rewarding them for being 'at least you arent trump' sends them a message that they don't really have to try.
On the flip side, Trump has caused a ton of pain, and I think anyone who was trying to punish the dems for being shit is regretting it at this point, but I do see a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel here.
Nobody who's thought on it even briefly thinks unfettered capitalism is good anymore lmao.
Not rewarding them means we give up our right to vote after which we won't be able to remove the right without bullets because we won't have fair elections anymore. It's estimated that dismantling USAID alone will cause 14M preventable deaths by 2030 many of them children.
I guess the question is why are you willing to kill millions of children and crash our entire country in order to make a point we'll only appreciate after we are watching them drag people to the death camps they are already building.
Look, if we really believe that the Dems aren't the answer then the only choice we have left is mob violence, and a full blown governmental reset with a new Constitution. Personally I'm for that, however, I would like to give The Democratic Party enough rope to make it clear that is what needs to happen, or enough rope to actually get us out of this mess and on the path of recovery.
But yeah, if you're not willing to use your small piece of violence allotted to you by the system, then I assume you're mad enough to actually get bloody. And if you're not either one of those, then your opinion doesn't really have any weight, and you're exactly what they accuse you of.
Love how the people in the comments are hyping up the "human rights" records of genocidal, pro police, we will outflank republicans to the right on the border democrats.
That's why we call social democrats the moderate wing of fascism. They exist solely to normalize fascism and to facilitate the fascist transition, by acting as a controlled opposite to distract the left away from socialism, and then to attack those who remain in the socialist camp. Although, the US is so cucked as a nation that they don't even get the "social democracy" part, but even their controlled "opposition" is openly neoliberal and can hardly even be considered an "opposition" at all, controlled or otherwise.
It's a fairly decent strategy to placate the right wing base with social democracy. Even opponents of socialism can't deny that. I think that's part of its appeal.
It is ineffective when the rachet effect is in place, though. The neoliberal wing is more focused on maintaining that first and foremost.
Social democracy is to placate the left, not the right. Late 19th century and early 20th century western Europe was fraught with civil wars from a lot of attempts and failed communist revolutions, such as in Finland, Spain, France, and Greece. Tensions were very high and social democracy spread as a way to provide just enough concessions to working class people that the ire from the working class would not erupt into revolutionary violence.
Although, with the turn of the 21st century, with basically the complete non-existence of socialists and communists as a global force, this placation has become rather pointless and so these western European countries have begun boiling the frog and slowly rolling them back through endless austerity.
The right is never placated. It's impossible to placate them. They always want more more more. If you give them an inch they will take a mile. It really stems from the material basis of the left and right.
The right represents the ruling class, which are well-organized and backed by enormous centralized financial institutions. The left represents the working class, which are not organized at all and not backed by any centralized institutions.
This distinction matters because it means the right always, continually, behaves as a well-organized force, constantly pushing its agenda non-stop, but the left only really can push its agenda in rare instances where working class people happen to spontaneously come together enough to push back. The right is thus always at an inherent advantage in this way.
These spontaneous coming-togethers, though, tend to be short lived and disintegrate over time. Hence, if that "pushing back" doesn't lead to an overthrow of the capitalist class, and the transfer of these major centralized financial institutions out of the hands of the oligarchs and into the hands of working people, then any gains become short lived as eventually the spontaneous working class organizations will either disintegrate or become defanged and ineffective over time, allowing for whatever gains they achieved to be rolled back.
democrats just haven't had the chance to show their true colors! says a zoomer with no knowledge of history.
remember in the 90s when they pushed the crime bill, NAFTA and welfare reform? that wasn't the republicans--which the youth hated. it was the democrats who passed all that bullshit, which had long-lasting effects on america.
you're up shits creek right now because of the democrats. shove that into the end of your legal dispensary pre-roll and smoke it!
what was the difference between reagan in 1985 and clinton in 1995 other than a sax solo?
BTW, i don't use the oxford comma because i graduated from oxford and we always considered it a way to separate the actually educated from the wannabes.
The patriot act was bipartisan. ALPRs are being installed in all states regardless of political affiliation. Data companies donate to politicians on both sides if the isle.
Yes, oligarchs have corrupted as many politicians as they are able. But ignoring that the Democrats are still the only party standing up for any human rights at all is ignorant.
If you are only participating in the general election, you are part of the problem.
It's like how the Republican party might not actually be racist - at least, not all Republicans are racist - but somehow almost all of the racists are Republican.
In the same way, yes, a lot of Democrats - and the "establishment" wing of the Democrat party is shitty and corrupt, but where do you think the change is coming from? Change that has any chance of success? Recently, it's started to self-identify as DSA. DSA is not a party, it is an organization. Anyone running as DSA runs................ wait for it.............. as a Democrat. (Maybe you can find someone not affiliated, but it's gonna be rare).
Our political system will naturally tend toward TWO PARTIES always. So a third party is always a waste of your vote - UNLESS you can build that third party support to take over one of the two existing parties.
So how do we fix this mess?
In the general, vote for the less insane option. If that's an establishment Democrat running against a fascist, suck it up, bub, and don't fucking shoot yourself in the foot
In the primaries, vote for the best option. But also: Donate if you're able. Volunteer to campaign if you can - letter writing, texting, et cetera. Support the candidate you want
Consider running for office if you're able
Lend whatever support you can to those who are actually standing up for change
Balance holding their feet to the fire and remembering that if you fucking destroy candidates because they don't meet your high standards, you'll be left with the fucking corrupt pieces of shit and the fascists like we have now
Demonizing ALL Democrats because a lot of them are, in fact, corrupt only helps fascists.
Getting you to go "BOTH SIDES" and give up is what the fucking fascists want.
So OP is probably not a fascist, but this post certainly helps the fascists, unless it actually inspired people to support progressive candidates. But most of these types of posts don't do that, they cause people to say "Fuck all politicians!" and so the fascists win, because that's exactly what they fucking want.
When the fuck did I say don't do anything? Why do you assume not wanting to endorse fascism is an advocacy for doing nothing instead of an advocacy against fascism and for socialism instead?
People were constantly criticising both parties for funding the genocide the entire time there's been a genocide. You must not be in any vocal communities if you only see criticisms during election times. Pop outside your bubble every once in a while.
Balance holding their feet to the fire and remembering that if you fucking destroy candidates because they don’t meet your high standards, you’ll be left with the fucking corrupt pieces of shit and the fascists like we have now
Pray tell, WHAT FUCKING HIGH STANDARDS? Not being knee deep in genocide blood money? Not meeting with Hitler II's son-in-law for secret negotiations? Actually having progressive policies instead of vague allusions to egg prices? What? Tell us! What is so 'unreasonable' here?
What are we supposed to slacken up on? The genocide, the collaborationism or the hope of have anything actually change? Which?
but somehow almost all of the racists are Republican.
Completely disagree. Maybe Republicans are more vocally racist, but there are way too many racists within the Democratic Party to act like most of them are Republican.
Ignoring problems within the Democratic party doesn’t help me in any way. Helping the Democrats doesn’t help me, because they don’t believe in defeating Republicans, they want to collaborate with them. I lost faith in the Democratic Party 26 years ago when they accepted Bush stealing the election; and they’ve done nothing to restore it.
AfD winning in Saxony Anhalt... Are you kidding me, guys? Yes, let's support the party that supports putin and ruzzia who keep placing explosives at our power grids cause that's what will make it better surely smh
This infighting is very dissapointing and counterproductive.
I don't really understand why we can't give each other a little bit of grace. It sounds like everyone believes the "other side" is downright evil which begs the question what are we even fighting for ?
There is no perfect not even a good choice to make here. On the one hand republicans are extremly dangerous and everything they fuck up can't be easily repaired, you still suffer from the policychoices under reagan but on the other hand democrats are very complicit but they at least give room for positive development.
I can't be mad at people not feeling great about electing someone that supports israel but Palestians are probably worse off now than they would be under kamala but than again how can we expect the party to change when they get votes simply for being not as bad.
We should focus on the real problem which is a antidemocratic voting system. You can be as mad as you want about your countrymen and the democratic party but as long as you don't have a real choice and megadonors the problems will remain, the most important part is to rally as many people as you can behind a shared believe not necessarily convince them to share all of yours.
I almost never see discussions about how to actually make your country a democracy, only infighting. In theory it would be relativly simple to impliment these changes, practically it is obviously complicated and an uphill battle but it is certainly more practical and unifying than shitting on each other.
To be fair go look at dsa leadership (and some of the politicians), they do Russia apologia and have said tons of unhinged stuff, and abdul campaigned with hasan, who even if you agree with him you're just giving Republicans and moderates a firehose of his greatest hits, like clips of him saying hamas is based and the real heroes, which might legitimately cost him a super important race.
No shit. Everyone wants to feel superior than some subjectively perceived minority (or majority) group. That's why capitalism is so popular in most countries. But that doesn't mean it's a good choice or the only choice.
So it's cool for the DSA to tell people to not vote for kamla in 2020, effectively helping Trump win? Does that not also count as choosing fascism over a less socialist agenda?
that literally says that Kamala is the same as Trump.
It literally doesn't.
It DOES, however, say something you'd do well to take to heart:
The risk of a Trump presidency has grown because of her deliberate strategic choices. If Trump wins, the blame will lie squarely with Kamala Harris and the Democratic Party establishment.
They weren't calling her out by lying about her being identical to the Mango Mussolini.
They were calling her out for being bad at the job of defeating him due to shitting on everyone who's in any way anti-war or just morally opposed to genocide, as well as anyone with policy preferences to the Left of Reagan.
My original reply was in regards to the 2020 election and had nothing to do with the current DSA page. So I stand by my statement that during the last presidential election, The far left spent just as much time attacking liberals as they did the Republicans while the Republicans only attacked to the left. And anyone using Israel as an excuse to not endorse Kamala in 2024 cared more about virtue signaling than actually minimizing harm. Everyone on the left knew that a trump presidency would be far more dangerous by every metric then a Kamala presidency, and that's before you even take into account his ongoing attempts at interfering in elections.
Correct, and now that the midterms are here, it's time to start hating on the Democrats in toto. If we were to complete this harebrained analogy the far left punches right in order to protect the other end of the horseshoe.
96 Comments
JustJack23@slrpnk.net · 64 pts · 1d
I love how the most basic social democratic(at best) policies in the US are framed as "socialism"
Carmakazi@piefed.social · 37 pts · 1d
The idea of the "undeserving" getting anything provided to them gets a lot of people very angry here. And then those same people probably:
DomeGuy@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
If they're opposed to "socialism" as Fox News uses the term because some of the recipients aren't "deserving", they have started far from the words attributed to Jesus and God in the Christian Bible.
https://biblerepository.com/bible-verses-about-socialism/
Matthew 25:35
(And if you think this quote is out of context, go read the chapter. Jesus is depicted literally telling his followers that to get into heaven they need to take care of the poor.)
JustJack23@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 1d
But like only for the deserving(right skin colour) poor's right? /S
Space_Cowboy92@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1d
The US never recovered from the Red Scare and McCarthyism. I’d even argue that both of those things entrenched US society into propaganda even more.
Sibshops@feddit.cl · 3 pts · 1d
Technically it is, no? Socialism is community ownership of the means of production which includes labor. And that can arguably be extended to socialized services for labor such has healthcare, public transportation, and grocery stores.
CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 1d
Social democracy is not socialism by any metric, socialism starts at ownership of the means of production by workers, and a state that works for the proletariat and not capitalists. That's the starting point, from there you can then add whatever social programs on top, but if you don't start from there you're still in a bourgeois democracy
Sibshops@feddit.cl · -2 pts · 1d
I disagree, socialist institutions or services can still exist within a capitalist government, even if it is piecemeal. There doesn't have to be a threshhold to pass for some aspect to be considered socialism.
8uurg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 10h
To expand upon you: examples of such institutions or policies would be free healthcare, universal basic income, but also places like libraries. You could even call (financial) support for housing & children, as well as progressive taxes socialist - despite the system in which they exist being capitalist.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · -15 pts · 1d
Leftists who keep looking down on liberals are just as bad as the liberals the meme is about.
Space_Cowboy92@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
Nah liberals are fucking stupid. Go suck a billionaire dick for a campaign donation.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · -12 pts · 1d
This attitude is why the right is winning. The left, both leftists and liberals, would rather keep gatekeeping what counts as left than actually make any progress to the left.
Sibshops@feddit.cl · 13 pts · 1d
Naw, the right was winning because the liberals were not representing the people's wishes. Being more vocal can only help the left win.
Space_Cowboy92@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1d
Liberals are NOT leftist. Leftism begins at anti capitalism.
JustJack23@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 1d
billionaire dick sucking noises
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 1d
Trust me, those noises are coming from the people eating up the liberal vs leftist propaganda.
Space_Cowboy92@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 9h
That’s you. You think liberals are leftists.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 9h
You should work on your reading comprehension. I never said that. I said that I think they should stop fighting each other.
teslekova@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 15h
No, they really aren't.
m532@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 7h
We don't look down on liberals. They are our enemies. Underestimating the enemy is key to losing any battle.
spacegoat@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 1d
Historical photo of Hakeem Jeffries
aamram@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 11h
I mean... I'm not in the US but I always thought that you guys have a right wing and a far right wing party. I don't see any leftist party... so it makes sense that they would be more aligned with fascism than socialism in terms of ideology.
peteypete420@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 10h
Its kind of the joke here
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 6h
Parties don't control the politicians inside them the same way they might be able to in some other countries. So it's one fascist party and one big tent everything from left to right party
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1d
I wish we could stop pretending the US wasn't a fascist nation for a very long time now. It gets old seeing things like "fascist takeover" when it is just different factions within fascism duking it out.
Hmm...do I want a neofascists or more traditional fascist? That is the garbage options we have to vote for.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 15 pts · 1d
Only one threatens their class interests.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 19 pts · 1d
Yup!
davepleasebehave@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 7h
Love that Melania is there but Trump ain't.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 3h
Same. In my headcannon, they all insisted she leave him at home and she was happy to comply.
As evidenced by the closest thing to a believably sincere smile she's been wearing in public since before Epstein recruited her.
ShutUpWesley@piefed.zip · 14 pts · 1d
Democrats are owned by the same oligarchs that own the Republicans.
Gaslov@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 8h
It's the inevitable end result. It's pretty hard to compete with money. They just keep buying your leaders.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 3h
Its the inevitable end result of a two party system to become like this. There is no mechanism to replace a party in the us, no 3rd options. Having just two and no way to boot ether to the curb without becoming a single party state means that interests can just buy both sides, and the people in both camps win more if they take more from those interests making a nasty feedback loop.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 6h
I'm sick of all these fascist plants pretending to be progressive while trying to convince us it's not worth bothering to vote Dem in the upcoming elections because they're all the same. They aren't, and you know they aren't you fucking Nazi.
The progressive movement is having its best year ever in the Democratic primaries and can continue to do so. We need to change the party, yes. But that's secondary to removing power from Trump.
Biden, Obama, and Clinton weren't true leftists. But they sure as shit weren't the dumpster fire we have now and we HAVE to neuter these fuckers in November.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 3h
Welp, thanks for that. Clearly you love your team so much that anyone who does not hold your opinions is a "nazi", there can be nothing but vote for your team after all.
You have no idea how absolutely insane you americans sound. This mess is on all of you, and honestly I would rather the us just collapse at this point. You have no ability or will to fix your party of choice let alone your nation. But please prove me wrong, do anything at this point. Vote blue sure at the very minimum, but please understand that you have an administration currently that does everything by decree and ignores your laws and traditions making your vote mean less and less as days pass.
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 18m
Right. You don't live here and you're wildly ignorant of what's happening here politically, but we're still supposed to take your nonstop bullshit lectures about how Democrats are the real problem and what? Just pretend that you're not full of shit?
The problem is Republicans. Full fucking stop.
If you can't get on board with that, then you're not fucking helping anyone other than yourself.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2h
Have the Dems fucked up a lot? Yes. But short of an actual Civil War, the only way to curb this madness is to vote Dem in November and flip the legislature. The GOP's fascism was hypercharged by targeting the Republican primaries. We can do the same the other direction on the left, and we've had recent success doing just that. And that terrifies the Nazis more than anything.
So they go to our online communities, pretend to be one of us, and try to convince people that the Dems who have failed to stop the GOP are the real problem. The fascists are very active here and elsewhere trying to convince leftists not to vote for the one party that can actually stop the GOP. They say that the Dems are no different than the GOP and try to get the left to split the vote in a manner that will ensure Trump and company win.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 0 pts · 2h
Right there you are actively doing what you are accusing others of.
It is not the only way, your american madness is not normal. You claim all online spaces as your own american democrat places, they are not. The world is not putting up with your wild team based bullshit anymore. Fix your shit, its not on the rest of the world to "fall in line" with your views or stop talking or thinking while you do it (or fail to).
The very fact that this statement does not terrify you people is wild, you are all so far up your own team based sauce that you can not see that by making "your team = good, their team = evil" is how you are in this mess. You are living in the honest by any measure end of your nation and are upset anyone thinks that the very system that delivered you to this point is not up to the task is peak american.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1h
So fuck me for discussing American politics on a thread about.... American Politics?
Right now there are 2 sides. The fascists currently running the show, and everybody who doesn't support them. I'm specifically saying that eblveryone who doesn't like concentration camps, gestapo, and the blatant, naked corruption of this administration blput aside theor differences and vote for the party that has a chance to stop it without violence.
I'm specifically trying to fix our shit, so kindly get out the fucking way and jerk off to your own superiority elsewhere.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 1h
You mean shutting down any and all other options then the status quo?
I watched you all tell people that 2 years ago was not the time, that last year was not the time, that now is not the time. So when do you actually fix anything? Because I can see plain as day that it by design is never the time.
You telling people to "kindly get out the fucking way and jerk off to your own superiority elsewhere." for not agreeing with you is (and this should not shock you) more then a little bit fascist. I will keep doing my part where I am and will continue to comment on american politics on a thread about... american politics.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 26m
You were calling me out for discussing American Politics as an American. I personally think I'm entitled to an opinion on my own fucking country's politics, especially when I'm in a position to do something.
All you assholes seem to do is insist that we magic a fix thay cannot happen overnight.
And yeah, 2 years ago we told people to vote against Trump no matter who. But you motherfuckers spent the whole time saying Kamala's nomination wasn't fair, or that the Dems were no worse than the GOP. And it worked and millions stayed home instead of voting for Harris.
That lead dorectly to every fucking thing that's happened under Trump's watch, from wars of choice to gestapo takeovers of American cities, to the murder of hundreds of civilians in fishing boats, to worldwide economic catatrophe, to the deaths of millions from USAID cuts, to the collapse of food safety regulations, and so, so much more.
People like you have blood on your hands.
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 15m
And their magic solution is always to do nothing, not support the Democrats, and see if total collapse is better than fixing anything.
The crazy part is, you literally can't tell which ones are just teenager morons and which ones are literal fascists, because an adult fascist THINKS LIKE a fucking teenaged moron. So good luck sorting out which of these people means well but is a teenaged idiot, and which ones are the actual fascists.
They make the same arguments with the same flawed logic because they have the same brain limitations.
frostysauce@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1h
Thanks for the productive and not at all pretentions, performative comment about a country you don't live in.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 1h
Oh not being from a nation has never stopped you people from having an opinion, why would that matter to me?
Or does the collapse of the last superpower (who is actively against my nation) not concern me in a way you care for?
Psythik@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1h
Yeah I'm almost 100% positive at this point that Hakeem Jeffries is one such GOP plant (among others, he just stands out the most to me). He goes against everything the Democratic party cares about.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 36m
I'm actually talking about the trolls making these posts.
urthoughtsrbad@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 24m
They get together with their friends from across the aisle and count votes to ensure everyone has a chance to stay in power together. Every single time, 5-6 random democrats vote with their best buddies from across the aisle.
And then people like you come online and carry their water.
Just maybe stop posting if you want to defend the “good guy” in their little good cop bad cop ruse.
Thanks.
NuanceDemon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 2h
They weren't leftists, or anything close, but rewarding them for being 'at least you arent trump' sends them a message that they don't really have to try.
On the flip side, Trump has caused a ton of pain, and I think anyone who was trying to punish the dems for being shit is regretting it at this point, but I do see a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel here.
Nobody who's thought on it even briefly thinks unfettered capitalism is good anymore lmao.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2h
Not rewarding them means we give up our right to vote after which we won't be able to remove the right without bullets because we won't have fair elections anymore. It's estimated that dismantling USAID alone will cause 14M preventable deaths by 2030 many of them children.
I guess the question is why are you willing to kill millions of children and crash our entire country in order to make a point we'll only appreciate after we are watching them drag people to the death camps they are already building.
ViceroTempus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2h
Look, if we really believe that the Dems aren't the answer then the only choice we have left is mob violence, and a full blown governmental reset with a new Constitution. Personally I'm for that, however, I would like to give The Democratic Party enough rope to make it clear that is what needs to happen, or enough rope to actually get us out of this mess and on the path of recovery.
But yeah, if you're not willing to use your small piece of violence allotted to you by the system, then I assume you're mad enough to actually get bloody. And if you're not either one of those, then your opinion doesn't really have any weight, and you're exactly what they accuse you of.
veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 7h
Republicans are the hammer, Democrats are the anvil.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 3h
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 1d
Love how the people in the comments are hyping up the "human rights" records of genocidal, pro police, we will outflank republicans to the right on the border democrats.
bunchberry@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
That's why we call social democrats the moderate wing of fascism. They exist solely to normalize fascism and to facilitate the fascist transition, by acting as a controlled opposite to distract the left away from socialism, and then to attack those who remain in the socialist camp. Although, the US is so cucked as a nation that they don't even get the "social democracy" part, but even their controlled "opposition" is openly neoliberal and can hardly even be considered an "opposition" at all, controlled or otherwise.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 1d
It's a fairly decent strategy to placate the right wing base with social democracy. Even opponents of socialism can't deny that. I think that's part of its appeal.
It is ineffective when the rachet effect is in place, though. The neoliberal wing is more focused on maintaining that first and foremost.
bunchberry@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3h
Social democracy is to placate the left, not the right. Late 19th century and early 20th century western Europe was fraught with civil wars from a lot of attempts and failed communist revolutions, such as in Finland, Spain, France, and Greece. Tensions were very high and social democracy spread as a way to provide just enough concessions to working class people that the ire from the working class would not erupt into revolutionary violence.
Although, with the turn of the 21st century, with basically the complete non-existence of socialists and communists as a global force, this placation has become rather pointless and so these western European countries have begun boiling the frog and slowly rolling them back through endless austerity.
The right is never placated. It's impossible to placate them. They always want more more more. If you give them an inch they will take a mile. It really stems from the material basis of the left and right.
The right represents the ruling class, which are well-organized and backed by enormous centralized financial institutions. The left represents the working class, which are not organized at all and not backed by any centralized institutions.
This distinction matters because it means the right always, continually, behaves as a well-organized force, constantly pushing its agenda non-stop, but the left only really can push its agenda in rare instances where working class people happen to spontaneously come together enough to push back. The right is thus always at an inherent advantage in this way.
These spontaneous coming-togethers, though, tend to be short lived and disintegrate over time. Hence, if that "pushing back" doesn't lead to an overthrow of the capitalist class, and the transfer of these major centralized financial institutions out of the hands of the oligarchs and into the hands of working people, then any gains become short lived as eventually the spontaneous working class organizations will either disintegrate or become defanged and ineffective over time, allowing for whatever gains they achieved to be rolled back.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2h
I don't really have a disagreement with what you're saying, but please note I said 'right wing base', which is predominantly working class.
Social democratic policies can be successful where class consciousness is lacking or suppressed.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 6h
Germany says hi :(
whereitsat@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 1d
democrats just haven't had the chance to show their true colors! says a zoomer with no knowledge of history.
remember in the 90s when they pushed the crime bill, NAFTA and welfare reform? that wasn't the republicans--which the youth hated. it was the democrats who passed all that bullshit, which had long-lasting effects on america.
you're up shits creek right now because of the democrats. shove that into the end of your legal dispensary pre-roll and smoke it!
what was the difference between reagan in 1985 and clinton in 1995 other than a sax solo?
BTW, i don't use the oxford comma because i graduated from oxford and we always considered it a way to separate the actually educated from the wannabes.
Alexfire@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 8h
They said the Dems would,
Take away your privacy,
Nope it was maga
hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 6h
The patriot act was bipartisan. ALPRs are being installed in all states regardless of political affiliation. Data companies donate to politicians on both sides if the isle.
This isn't a partisan thing.
isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 6h
Campist.
daychilde@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Yes, oligarchs have corrupted as many politicians as they are able. But ignoring that the Democrats are still the only party standing up for any human rights at all is ignorant.
If you are only participating in the general election, you are part of the problem.
It's like how the Republican party might not actually be racist - at least, not all Republicans are racist - but somehow almost all of the racists are Republican.
In the same way, yes, a lot of Democrats - and the "establishment" wing of the Democrat party is shitty and corrupt, but where do you think the change is coming from? Change that has any chance of success? Recently, it's started to self-identify as DSA. DSA is not a party, it is an organization. Anyone running as DSA runs................ wait for it.............. as a Democrat. (Maybe you can find someone not affiliated, but it's gonna be rare).
Our political system will naturally tend toward TWO PARTIES always. So a third party is always a waste of your vote - UNLESS you can build that third party support to take over one of the two existing parties.
So how do we fix this mess?
Demonizing ALL Democrats because a lot of them are, in fact, corrupt only helps fascists.
Getting you to go "BOTH SIDES" and give up is what the fucking fascists want.
So OP is probably not a fascist, but this post certainly helps the fascists, unless it actually inspired people to support progressive candidates. But most of these types of posts don't do that, they cause people to say "Fuck all politicians!" and so the fascists win, because that's exactly what they fucking want.
Oppopity@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 1d
The guys that did a genocide care about human rights?
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 12h
You're right, we should totally sit this one out again and not vote. Because that worked so well last time.
Oppopity@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 3h
When the fuck did I say don't do anything? Why do you assume not wanting to endorse fascism is an advocacy for doing nothing instead of an advocacy against fascism and for socialism instead?
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 3h
Because these kinds of posts and comments tend to only come up in the leadup to an election.
Oppopity@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1h
People were constantly criticising both parties for funding the genocide the entire time there's been a genocide. You must not be in any vocal communities if you only see criticisms during election times. Pop outside your bubble every once in a while.
bold_atlas@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Pray tell, WHAT FUCKING HIGH STANDARDS? Not being knee deep in genocide blood money? Not meeting with Hitler II's son-in-law for secret negotiations? Actually having progressive policies instead of vague allusions to egg prices? What? Tell us! What is so 'unreasonable' here?
What are we supposed to slacken up on? The genocide, the collaborationism or the hope of have anything actually change? Which?
kestrel7_7@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 8h
Completely disagree. Maybe Republicans are more vocally racist, but there are way too many racists within the Democratic Party to act like most of them are Republican.
Ignoring problems within the Democratic party doesn’t help me in any way. Helping the Democrats doesn’t help me, because they don’t believe in defeating Republicans, they want to collaborate with them. I lost faith in the Democratic Party 26 years ago when they accepted Bush stealing the election; and they’ve done nothing to restore it.
Puddinghelmet@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 8h
AfD winning in Saxony Anhalt... Are you kidding me, guys? Yes, let's support the party that supports putin and ruzzia who keep placing explosives at our power grids cause that's what will make it better surely smh
waterwasamistake@lemmy.zip · -4 pts · 13h
This infighting is very dissapointing and counterproductive.
I don't really understand why we can't give each other a little bit of grace. It sounds like everyone believes the "other side" is downright evil which begs the question what are we even fighting for ?
There is no perfect not even a good choice to make here. On the one hand republicans are extremly dangerous and everything they fuck up can't be easily repaired, you still suffer from the policychoices under reagan but on the other hand democrats are very complicit but they at least give room for positive development.
I can't be mad at people not feeling great about electing someone that supports israel but Palestians are probably worse off now than they would be under kamala but than again how can we expect the party to change when they get votes simply for being not as bad.
We should focus on the real problem which is a antidemocratic voting system. You can be as mad as you want about your countrymen and the democratic party but as long as you don't have a real choice and megadonors the problems will remain, the most important part is to rally as many people as you can behind a shared believe not necessarily convince them to share all of yours.
I almost never see discussions about how to actually make your country a democracy, only infighting. In theory it would be relativly simple to impliment these changes, practically it is obviously complicated and an uphill battle but it is certainly more practical and unifying than shitting on each other.
starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 1d
To be fair go look at dsa leadership (and some of the politicians), they do Russia apologia and have said tons of unhinged stuff, and abdul campaigned with hasan, who even if you agree with him you're just giving Republicans and moderates a firehose of his greatest hits, like clips of him saying hamas is based and the real heroes, which might legitimately cost him a super important race.
MareOfNights@discuss.tchncs.de · -5 pts · 12h
This post and comment section desperately need to touch grass. Nobody in the real world wants anything to do with you commies.
isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 6h
JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 5h
No shit. Everyone wants to feel superior than some subjectively perceived minority (or majority) group. That's why capitalism is so popular in most countries. But that doesn't mean it's a good choice or the only choice.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10h
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.social · -7 pts · 1d
I think it’s cute when we get close to elections all these account pop up to shit on the only party with a chance to beat the republicans.
Neomega@lemmy.world · -19 pts · 1d
So it's cool for the DSA to tell people to not vote for kamla in 2020, effectively helping Trump win? Does that not also count as choosing fascism over a less socialist agenda?
canthangmightstain@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 1d
Doesn’t seem like the statement they’re making to me.
Smif_N_Lenin@piefed.social · 16 pts · 1d
Liberals being disingenuous to blame their left-flank instead of the establishment's failure to oppose fascism?
Crazy how that works, lol
canthangmightstain@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 1d
Just intellectually lazy people punching down… wonder if there’s a correlation?
Neomega@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 1d
Did you think I wouldn't read that or something? Because that literally says that Kamala is the same as Trump.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 1d
It literally doesn't.
It DOES, however, say something you'd do well to take to heart:
They weren't calling her out by lying about her being identical to the Mango Mussolini.
They were calling her out for being bad at the job of defeating him due to shitting on everyone who's in any way anti-war or just morally opposed to genocide, as well as anyone with policy preferences to the Left of Reagan.
canthangmightstain@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 1d
No? It says “our members deserve better because the two front runner candidates chose these same few stances on these key areas”.
If you read “these two are literally the same and you shouldn’t vote” then that’s pretty much on you.
Neomega@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
My original reply was in regards to the 2020 election and had nothing to do with the current DSA page. So I stand by my statement that during the last presidential election, The far left spent just as much time attacking liberals as they did the Republicans while the Republicans only attacked to the left. And anyone using Israel as an excuse to not endorse Kamala in 2024 cared more about virtue signaling than actually minimizing harm. Everyone on the left knew that a trump presidency would be far more dangerous by every metric then a Kamala presidency, and that's before you even take into account his ongoing attempts at interfering in elections.
kestrel7_7@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 8h
You mean an election the Democrats won? So what are you complaining about, then?
Space_Cowboy92@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
I’ll take bullshit that you shat into your hand for $500
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub · -6 pts · 1d
Its the dumbest trick the left fall for every time: criticise your own side and fight amongst yourselves.
Someone will be along in a moment to tell us that protesting outside a democracy's campaign rally is the only way to reduce related casualties.
teslekova@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 15h
Liberals and leftists ARE NOT ON THE SAME SIDE
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub · 0 pts · 14h
You seem to be 18 hours late.
Hominine@lemmy.world · -15 pts · 1d
Correct, and now that the midterms are here, it's time to start hating on the Democrats in toto. If we were to complete this harebrained analogy the far left punches right in order to protect the other end of the horseshoe.