It’s emulation. The CPU architecture is only one piece of the puzzle. The PS5 runs a custom operating system with custom graphics APIs and unified memory.
Yes. But Proton has the advantage of working with well documented APIs on both sides. All the PS5 stuff is proprietary and has to be reverse engineered, that’s why it doesn’t work so well.
Ok, so if it's translating to a reverse engineered API, it's emulation. But if it uses the proprietary documentation and does the same exact translation it....wouldn't be emulation anymore? What part are we saying is being emulated again?
It’s a Zen 2 APU. It could run any other x86_64 OS in theory. There’s no need to emulate the whole system if you’re running it on an x86_64 machine. It shouldn’t be wholly impossible to just run it as a VM and save the overheard of translating instructions to the same instructions.
My reply to your comment would be the same one you replied to. That’s not how it works. The translation layer is required. Having the same clue architecture is not good enough to just run the games natively. If it were, Proton wouldn’t exist and Linux and Mac gaming would have been solved a decade ago.
You already don’t need to emulate the entire hardware system like you would with a PS3, but you still require a complex translation layer.
You already don’t need to emulate the entire hardware system like you would with a PS3, but you still require a complex translation layer.
I think this is their point, just worded better. Wine and Proton are not "emulators", but translation layers like you are describing.
Although I have no idea what they are talking about in regards to virtualization - being able to install Linux on a PS5 doesn't get me any closer to running PS5 games on Linux, and I can't even imagine the virtualization headaches to get the PS5 OS running in a VM with enough access to the hardware to not blow chunks (and honestly sounds a lot closer to true hardware emulation than not).
My problem with their point isn’t really the semantics as much as that they seem to be under the impression that it should “just work” when we can clearly see by the above article, it doesn’t.
Translation layers and emulators are two very different things though, emulators take foreign machine code and interpret it on/recompile it for the native architecture while translation layers replicate OS and driver layer functionality on a foreign OS/driver environment. Proton is a translation layer, not an emulator. The PS5 can literally run Linix and Steam, it's essentially stock PC hardware, so the environment that needs to be replicated is the PS5 system software, not the hardware layer.
Beats me. If the USSR had won the Cold War and taken over the world, we'd all have way better games consoles AND they'd be given out for free to everyone who asked.
PS4 and PS5 emulators I don't think any of them actually emulate the CPU at least. This is more like QEMU and WINE, sort of. They do emulate some stuff like parts of the firmware, memory management, input/output systems, Graphics API.
The first PS4 emulator that got in-game with a few 2D titles was literally just a modified version of QEMU as a proof of concept. Only ran on Unix based operating systems because the PS4 runs a modified version of FreeBSD.
41 Comments
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 113 pts · 1d
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 1d
And you'll need 1 whole data center to run the emulator.
NekoKoneko@lemmy.world · 59 pts · 1d
Seems very CPU dependant.
chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 1d
That's pretty typical of emulators.
mecen@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 1d
To be fair it shouldn't take too much CPU as ps4/5 emulation relies a lot on translation rather as emulation because ps5 is just zen2 apu
Squizzy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
That was what I was gping to build before prices went crazy 🥲
bdonvr@thelemmy.club · 17 pts · 1d
Isn't PS5 x86?
On a normal PC that's more like specialized virtualization rather than emulation. It should run decent.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 23h
It’s emulation. The CPU architecture is only one piece of the puzzle. The PS5 runs a custom operating system with custom graphics APIs and unified memory.
teawrecks@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 14h
Isn't Proton solving the same problem though?
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 12h
Yes. But Proton has the advantage of working with well documented APIs on both sides. All the PS5 stuff is proprietary and has to be reverse engineered, that’s why it doesn’t work so well.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 0 pts · 6h
Maybe i am not understanding well but all this seems just a translation layer to me
zaphod@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 5h
The problem is that you don't really know from what you're translating.
teawrecks@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 6h
Ok, so if it's translating to a reverse engineered API, it's emulation. But if it uses the proprietary documentation and does the same exact translation it....wouldn't be emulation anymore? What part are we saying is being emulated again?
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2h
I didn’t say anything to that effect
zaphod@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 5h
You don't really need to emulate stuff, you need to reimplement the APIs, and those aren't well documented, at least not publicly.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 14h
It's a mix - some functions are emulated but the CPU functions can be largely just passed through
Clusterfck@lemmy.sdf.org · -1 pts · 19h
It’s a Zen 2 APU. It could run any other x86_64 OS in theory. There’s no need to emulate the whole system if you’re running it on an x86_64 machine. It shouldn’t be wholly impossible to just run it as a VM and save the overheard of translating instructions to the same instructions.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 19h
My reply to your comment would be the same one you replied to. That’s not how it works. The translation layer is required. Having the same clue architecture is not good enough to just run the games natively. If it were, Proton wouldn’t exist and Linux and Mac gaming would have been solved a decade ago.
You already don’t need to emulate the entire hardware system like you would with a PS3, but you still require a complex translation layer.
Crozekiel@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 15h
I think this is their point, just worded better. Wine and Proton are not "emulators", but translation layers like you are describing.
Although I have no idea what they are talking about in regards to virtualization - being able to install Linux on a PS5 doesn't get me any closer to running PS5 games on Linux, and I can't even imagine the virtualization headaches to get the PS5 OS running in a VM with enough access to the hardware to not blow chunks (and honestly sounds a lot closer to true hardware emulation than not).
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12h
My problem with their point isn’t really the semantics as much as that they seem to be under the impression that it should “just work” when we can clearly see by the above article, it doesn’t.
CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 15h
Translation layers and emulators are two very different things though, emulators take foreign machine code and interpret it on/recompile it for the native architecture while translation layers replicate OS and driver layer functionality on a foreign OS/driver environment. Proton is a translation layer, not an emulator. The PS5 can literally run Linix and Steam, it's essentially stock PC hardware, so the environment that needs to be replicated is the PS5 system software, not the hardware layer.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 19h
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 29 pts · 1d
Weird.
That's how the PC version was at launch for me.
the_q@piefed.social · 25 pts · 1d
Emulation of a system running x86_64 on an x86_64 system is like moronic Inception.
carpelbridgesyndrome@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 19h
The issue is the proprietary graphics API needs to be emulated. Also OS calls.
strop@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 1d
Capitalism is amazingest
Epzillon@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 1d
Genuine question, why is this downvoted? Or am I dummy?
antianarchist@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 1d
Same boat. Because a company abusing a hardware standard so much you basically have to emulate things, is the result of capitalism.
silicon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 1d
Probably a bot
demonsword@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 6h
I'd guess it's downvoted because the quote has no relevance whatsoever to the discussion
MouldyCat@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 8h
Beats me. If the USSR had won the Cold War and taken over the world, we'd all have way better games consoles AND they'd be given out for free to everyone who asked.
BurgerBaron@quokk.au · 2 pts · 5h
PS4 and PS5 emulators I don't think any of them actually emulate the CPU at least. This is more like QEMU and WINE, sort of. They do emulate some stuff like parts of the firmware, memory management, input/output systems, Graphics API.
The first PS4 emulator that got in-game with a few 2D titles was literally just a modified version of QEMU as a proof of concept. Only ran on Unix based operating systems because the PS4 runs a modified version of FreeBSD.
Carighan@piefed.world · 9 pts · 1d
And how many fps does it run after the crash?
sparky@lemmy.federate.cc · 5 pts · 15h
Since PS5 is actually x86 isn’t this more like a VM than an actual emulator?
thenoirwolfess@fedinsfw.app · 4 pts · 1d
Looking forward to SAMTIME referring to this as the "Kittai PS5"
Rolive@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 5h
I can barely play for 5 minutes without crashing the car.
iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Wtf is going on with the generic compatibility list?
mecen@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 1d
When gta 6? I hope before PC release
trashman@feddit.org · 4 pts · 1d
Granted. PC release coming in 2049
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · -4 pts · 1d
SaltySalamander@fedia.io · 3 pts · 20h
Zero sympathy for people who don't browse the web with an ad blocker in 2026.
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 20h
Okay? Unrelated to me. I have an ad blocker if that's what you mean.
They vibecoded ads in, too? Interesting.