Honestly, SEO broke things first. The fact that the mountains of crap became impossible to sift through is what opened the door for LLMs to grab market share in the first place.
Really, as soon as Google became an ad company, the writing was on the wall.
Maybe, but it is fair to say, everything that makes it easier to find what you want... makes the internet more usable. In areas where finding what you want wasn't terrible, when they impliment AI, most people hate it.
SEO became a thing when business started making its way onto the web. There was no profit motive when the web was an academic platform, corporate presence online ended that. SEO was a symptom to that arrival.
its not even selling access to the library tho, its someone standing in front of the library retelling, in their own words, what is in the books and also including things that aren't in any books or media but sounds like they might be.
This happened because we let "business" morons and product managers take over. This is what they do. They arrive with their gigantic Dunning-Kruger syndrom and fuck everything up. Like we needed any of these parasites to build the Internet.
The library is still there, the admission is still free. The card catalogue isn't as useful for finding the contents anymore. But, as long as you can find the tutorials, answers, etc. are still available, still free to access.
The AIs trained on the data, but they didn't delete it when they were done training.
To be clear, those are rare books bought by the kilogram, not rare books people would want to buy.
If your aunt's boyfriend's sister's dog's mum writes a sci-fi book that's a blatantly obvious cross between star wars and lord of the rings and gets 100 copies printed and friends and family buy 20 to support her, that's now an ultra rare book with only 80 copies on the market and a prime target for AI companies to buy because it's cheap and it's new and unique training data.
There's a library, been there for years. Across the street someone opened a book rental service, and people are flocking to the paid service for access to what they were just getting for free. Not only that but the paid service is less accurate and you still have to go to the library from time to time to check what the service is selling.
Somehow we need to stretch this metaphor to account for the fact that the book rental service can only work by sending millions of robots into all the free libraries every day, taxing the resources of the free library with all the traffic.
And the resources in the paid book store are allowed to lie and manipulate with barely any warning (maybe 0.0001pt font underneath the store sign), while the store tells you everything is trustworthy and absolutely reliable.
You forgot the part where the real answers are obfuscated by all the poor quality tutorials being generated every day, repeating wrong answers and proliferating the problem.
They've been doing this for decades, this is just a new way to exploit open source projects. I remember years ago the controversy surrounding MongoDB when they changed their license because Amazon would sell MongoDB access through AWS without ever giving back to MongoDB's open source work, and people were mad at MongoDB.
Open source projects should not be allowed to be used for profit by medium to large companies without a paying a percentage based royalty of gross revenue.
That's... The point of the post. They're talking about ai specifically, but everything is monetized these days. Including people chatting with each other online.
Things started out free and ad free. Google for example started ad free and proudly started that fact. Now it's become a core strategy for them. Release a new product, get it on everyone's devices then load it up with ads.
A lot of knowledge is lost. The forums are shutting down, because people moved to Reddit - or discord. Then people deleted their Reddit posts, and discord isn’t public.
Yeah, you also don't have to drive a car if you go cross country,but it's much faster if you do. Just make sure you're well prepared, well rested and you keep your eyes on the road.
This is why my goal now is to just copy and share as much as possible, they spent decades saying it was theft only to give AI corps a free pass and then some. I'm now a private AI company so its not piracy its just "training data"
Nah dude, I knew for sure it was AI before I ever checked Pangram. There's examples of me catching AIs in the wild on social media from 4 years ago even — been at this longer than Pangram was around.
No human would have written those last two lines that way.
That cadence is almost as much of a signature for the Claudes as "it's not X — it's Y" was for ChatGPTs.
That all costs resources to monitor and defend and often the value is gone before any legal process catches up, if there are even laws already in place. Corporate thieves stealing from the commons and destroy it in the process is killing every community that succeeds. Stop feeding the monster.
59 Comments
IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works · 145 pts · 2d
Honestly, SEO broke things first. The fact that the mountains of crap became impossible to sift through is what opened the door for LLMs to grab market share in the first place.
Really, as soon as Google became an ad company, the writing was on the wall.
Opisek@piefed.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 2d
Even without SEO, the public would've jumped on LLMs just the same
TheFogan@programming.dev · 4 pts · 2d
Maybe, but it is fair to say, everything that makes it easier to find what you want... makes the internet more usable. In areas where finding what you want wasn't terrible, when they impliment AI, most people hate it.
JayDee@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 2d
SEO became a thing when business started making its way onto the web. There was no profit motive when the web was an academic platform, corporate presence online ended that. SEO was a symptom to that arrival.
stopforgettingit@lemmy.world · 78 pts · 2d
its not even selling access to the library tho, its someone standing in front of the library retelling, in their own words, what is in the books and also including things that aren't in any books or media but sounds like they might be.
thenextguy@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 2d
And then you just ignore them and walk into the library.
OpenStars@discuss.online · 6 pts · 2d
If you can find it (and if it even exists).
voidsignal@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 2d
This happened because we let "business" morons and product managers take over. This is what they do. They arrive with their gigantic Dunning-Kruger syndrom and fuck everything up. Like we needed any of these parasites to build the Internet.
Save a computer, eat a marketer.
Epp@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 2d
Psst... It's Dunning-Kruger.
voidsignal@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Edited thx
merc@sh.itjust.works · 38 pts · 2d
This keeps getting posted, but it's still wrong.
The library is still there, the admission is still free. The card catalogue isn't as useful for finding the contents anymore. But, as long as you can find the tutorials, answers, etc. are still available, still free to access.
The AIs trained on the data, but they didn't delete it when they were done training.
heartSagan5@lemmy.zip · 43 pts · 2d
Except that rare book thingy, where they’re debinding, scanning and trashing them.
black0ut@pawb.social · 49 pts · 2d
Or the fact that a ton of indie forums had to close or go private because of the excessive scraping.
boonhet@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
To be clear, those are rare books bought by the kilogram, not rare books people would want to buy.
If your aunt's boyfriend's sister's dog's mum writes a sci-fi book that's a blatantly obvious cross between star wars and lord of the rings and gets 100 copies printed and friends and family buy 20 to support her, that's now an ultra rare book with only 80 copies on the market and a prime target for AI companies to buy because it's cheap and it's new and unique training data.
merc@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 2d
That's awful, but it isn't what this post is about.
SippyCup@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 2d
It's actually worse.
There's a library, been there for years. Across the street someone opened a book rental service, and people are flocking to the paid service for access to what they were just getting for free. Not only that but the paid service is less accurate and you still have to go to the library from time to time to check what the service is selling.
duckCityComplex@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 2d
Somehow we need to stretch this metaphor to account for the fact that the book rental service can only work by sending millions of robots into all the free libraries every day, taxing the resources of the free library with all the traffic.
nforminvasion@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 2d
And the resources in the paid book store are allowed to lie and manipulate with barely any warning (maybe 0.0001pt font underneath the store sign), while the store tells you everything is trustworthy and absolutely reliable.
running_ragged@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2d
You forgot the part where the real answers are obfuscated by all the poor quality tutorials being generated every day, repeating wrong answers and proliferating the problem.
thenextguy@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2d
But bro I'm so sick of pretending...
Hackworth@piefed.ca · 24 pts · 2d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 2d
The worst is that a significant proportion of the answers or information you get from them are wrong.
thenextguy@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 2d
But you don't know which answers or how often unless you do the work to check yourself. So why bother in the first place?
begrudgedcarfolk@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 1d
They've been doing this for decades, this is just a new way to exploit open source projects. I remember years ago the controversy surrounding MongoDB when they changed their license because Amazon would sell MongoDB access through AWS without ever giving back to MongoDB's open source work, and people were mad at MongoDB.
Open source projects should not be allowed to be used for profit by medium to large companies without a paying a percentage based royalty of gross revenue.
False@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Then pick a license that has that restriction
yucandu@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 2d
You posted all that stuff on ad-driven websites, you already handed it to them to turn into a product.
Obituarykidney@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2d
That's... The point of the post. They're talking about ai specifically, but everything is monetized these days. Including people chatting with each other online.
yucandu@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1d
And my point is that it isn't "these days", it was always monetized.
Obituarykidney@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Things started out free and ad free. Google for example started ad free and proudly started that fact. Now it's become a core strategy for them. Release a new product, get it on everyone's devices then load it up with ads.
glimse@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
Text as an image is my mildlyinfuriating. Just post the damn text.
isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 18h
Why would we do that? Blind people don't deserve to read smh.
kromem@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
If they did that it'd make it even easier to run it through an AI detector which would show it was AI generated.
sirico@feddit.uk · -1 pts · 1d
Go type it out and repost get more points and have it become the norm. No one owes you anything it's free.
glimse@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
The original has been posted before and the irony of criticizing stolen work using a stolen post is just too much for me, sorry.
OpenStars@discuss.online · 9 pts · 2d
This sounds familiar...
spez!!!
danda@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 2d
I mean, the library is still there. You don't have to use those products (yet at least...)
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de · 16 pts · 2d
A lot of knowledge is lost. The forums are shutting down, because people moved to Reddit - or discord. Then people deleted their Reddit posts, and discord isn’t public.
Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 2d
That was happening long before LLMs
abbadon420@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2d
Yeah, you also don't have to drive a car if you go cross country,but it's much faster if you do. Just make sure you're well prepared, well rested and you keep your eyes on the road.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 2d
Time to create the internet 2?
Nugscree@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
With hookers and blackjack?
Hylactor@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 2d
Silver lining: we have always and will always exist, they will only exist intermittently. We have always, and will always out number them.
Optimistic: glacial progress is still progress.
Pessimistic: Why bother planting a tree who's shade you will never enjoy.
The only way we can truly fail is to adopt their mercenary "what's in it for me" way of thinking.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 7 pts · 2d
This is colonialism.
GrayBackgroundMusic@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 2d
Far more than mildly infuriating
foggy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2d
Mildly catastrophic.
regdog@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
The AI products are not worth billions, it is all marketing bullshit.
tazeycrazy@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 1d
It's worth billions the same way a fire is worth billions if you shovel cash into it.
gravitywell@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1d
This is why my goal now is to just copy and share as much as possible, they spent decades saying it was theft only to give AI corps a free pass and then some. I'm now a private AI company so its not piracy its just "training data"
enterthepocket@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 2d
All of this is on the first page of the Bible. AI must be up to something.
kromem@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 2d
It's hilarious to me that no one here so far realizes the copy of the post itself was written by AI.
AviAdi@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2d
"the copy of the post itself" wtf are you talking about? What copy?
kromem@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2d
The writing. The words on the images. 'Copywriting'
I'm assuming you pulled the image from elsewhere, but it's clearly been written by AI. I knew it even before I bothered checking.
The last two lines are a very particular way of phrasing it. In fact, I can tell it was a Claude that wrote them.
AviAdi@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
So your AI told you what to think and now you dismiss any words that are written.
Maybe your AI is wrong? "Confidence limited - short text"
Maybe you should click that learn more before you listen to your AI's hallucinations
kromem@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Nah dude, I knew for sure it was AI before I ever checked Pangram. There's examples of me catching AIs in the wild on social media from 4 years ago even — been at this longer than Pangram was around.
No human would have written those last two lines that way.
That cadence is almost as much of a signature for the Claudes as "it's not X — it's Y" was for ChatGPTs.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 2d
Never give things for free or openly, scavengers will take it all and then sell it back to you. The only community allowed is the business community.
voidsignal@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 2d
This is the stupidest advice I have read in years. Use copyleft license and don't be a cretin.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 2d
That all costs resources to monitor and defend and often the value is gone before any legal process catches up, if there are even laws already in place. Corporate thieves stealing from the commons and destroy it in the process is killing every community that succeeds. Stop feeding the monster.
voidsignal@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2d
So you play the corporate game because you don't like the corporate game. You are running in circle and going absolutely nowhere. Pause and think.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 2d
I couldn't be moving in a straighter line. Stop providing companies with value they can steal and monopolize.