Is this what it looked like? (I also took the liberty of replacing $ with § because of the Czech keyboard layout; FYI: yes we do have a $ available as AltGr+ů but § is in the base layer; I would also replace the backtick/grève `, which is obtained by pressing AltGr+š once or twice (OS-dependent), with °).
Edit: BTW my first code was in the "Imagine" program, a Logo IDE with Czech localization (including syntax: do, vz, vp, vl, puntík, smaž, domů, příkaz, konec, piš etc.). The documentation was piss-poor, I never learnt if it had arrays or code comments. The textbook I had didn't even mention variables, I only learned about them in a short PDF guide I found online. Before that, I would use pixels on the canvas as variables.
Had my 10yo self received a Python runtime instead, I wouldn't be stimied by the "you don't need to pass arguments if every variable is global" mindset I'm still struggling to overcome. I found programming challenges online and was able to solve most theoretical ones, but Imagine was too limited to implement all but the basic practical ones, not to mention that it ran way slower than Python would. I was convinced that the lack of speed was mostly the hardware's fault and that I would need a low-level language like C++ to solve the 1000×1000 inputs in some puzzles. I got in touch with the challenge authors and they suggested Eclipse but I couldn't get it to work. I was too overwhelmed by the English interface and documentation and barely knew what a compiler was. I learnt decent English soon after but the fear of IDEs stayed, and eventually I turned towards electronics instead.
Don't forget the keyboard shortcuts. Office products would change shortcuts according to the language, so it would be more mnemonic. Ctrl-F for find and Ctrl-B for bold would be reassigned to whatever initials that language had. Fun! /s
Not even the right initials. Most of the actions' names had the same few initials so they had to find synonyms to use the shortcut for. Search was Ctrl+L (from Locate). In other cases they just used whatever letter was next on the keyboard to the initial that was already in use.
Man I’m glad Dutch keyboards are just US international. So all the shortcuts are just the same as the English version. So I never had to unlearn localized shortcuts.
Oh shit, I'd never get anything done, as I'd imagine my lovely friend's accent reading this shit out.
Selecione * de tbl_minha-tabela onde nome não é nulo
Hahaha! I love it!
That reminds me, I had to modify a program written in VB once. The guy who created it wrote every table, every column, every view in Portuguese, WITH ACCENTS! It works, we simply have to put everything between brackets, but it doesn’t add anything to clarity. It looks awful and seems pedantic.
Pretty sure druckef should be drucked. printf means print (to) file. "File"is valid German, but it is non-standard and "Datei" seems to be the preferred form.
I could also argue that that d should be capitalised, but I'm already overstepping my bounds considering I know very little German.
I wouldn't want to say which should take precedence between C's preference for all-lowercase keywords and functions and German's Rule to capitalise all Nouns.
Why? Programming language isn't a natural language. In fact, I think not knowing English makes it easier, since you cannot attach any preconceived notions, assumptions, or word order to keywords. I learned some Pascal, Visual Basic and whatever GameMaker used at the time without being fluent in English.
This makes it horrible to read. An example that comes to mind is a Finnish athlete with the last name Määttä. If it was Maatta, it would be pronounced differently but still understandable if you knew the person. But it was translated into Maeaettae which is just horrible
Also "Maatta" is a different word in Finnish with its own meaning: "without a country" or "without a land", while "Määttä" does not have this meaning. I agree that the aeae makes it horrible to read, though. Another athlete whose name has some ä's that make the it difficult to read when turned into ae's is Mäkäräinen which then becomes Maekaeraeinen :D
Finnish doesn't have umlauts. Characters ä and ö are entirely different and separate from a and o so it doesn't make sense to add the letter e signifying a-umlaut or o-umlaut when writing in Finnish. German has umlauts so it makes sense to write either ä or ae when writing in German.
I agree it's best to write Maatta if letter ä is not available. I suppose the vocal harmony makes it easy to distinguish whether a is supposed to be a or ä and if o is supposed to be o or ö.
I often use z as a temp variable when i need something to compare to when creating new code but don't want a separate window to the side or to experiment with something but don't yet know what the result can or will be. I use z purely just because i know z is very very unlikely to have been used elsewhere, and if for some reason it has, then i just name it 'zz'.
This is actually temporary by the way. It does not stay in my code. Once I'm done with it, i delete it.
It doesn't fit very well in this context, the idea behind "beinhalten" is that the subject "includes" the object (i.e. the object is part of the content of the subject), but the #include command in the C preprocessor isn't about describing that kind of situation, it's a command "I want to include one file in another", a better verb in German for that is "einbinden". (I realize this isn't a very good explanation, but I'm a native speaker of German and can tell you that no one would use the verb "beinhalten" in this context.)
The previous commenter's German teacher likely prefers "enthalten" instead of "beinhalten", which has the same problem in this context though.
I prefer to code by yelling at Chat GPT, copy-pasting to Grok, telling Grok Chat GPT said it couldn't write cleaner code, then going back and forth between the 2 with fake insults from the other until one declares a Jihad on the other. I think it's called "vibe coding".
Silly librul, everyone knows forests are a lie sold to us by big-pharma so they can sell us more vaccines. That's why I take my Ivermectin enemas daily, and you should too! It helps you see through the Jewish Space Lasers!
you need to compile c with a c++ compiler to be able to define macros for keywords iirc. But I did do this once to translate c to my native language, Maltese. It was cursed
80 Comments
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 72 pts · 305d
If you think German C is bad imagine Czech PHP.
Had to refactor an entire custom Magento plugin written in it.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 54 pts · 304d
I found a random PHP file online and recreated your trauma:
Is this what it looked like? (I also took the liberty of replacing
$with§because of the Czech keyboard layout; FYI: yes we do have a$available asAltGr+ůbut§is in the base layer; I would also replace the backtick/grève `, which is obtained by pressingAltGr+šonce or twice (OS-dependent), with°).Edit: BTW my first code was in the "Imagine" program, a Logo IDE with Czech localization (including syntax:
do,vz,vp,vl,puntík,smaž,domů,příkaz,konec,pišetc.). The documentation was piss-poor, I never learnt if it had arrays or code comments. The textbook I had didn't even mention variables, I only learned about them in a short PDF guide I found online. Before that, I would use pixels on the canvas as variables.Had my 10yo self received a Python runtime instead, I wouldn't be stimied by the "you don't need to pass arguments if every variable is global" mindset I'm still struggling to overcome. I found programming challenges online and was able to solve most theoretical ones, but Imagine was too limited to implement all but the basic practical ones, not to mention that it ran way slower than Python would. I was convinced that the lack of speed was mostly the hardware's fault and that I would need a low-level language like C++ to solve the 1000×1000 inputs in some puzzles. I got in touch with the challenge authors and they suggested Eclipse but I couldn't get it to work. I was too overwhelmed by the English interface and documentation and barely knew what a compiler was. I learnt decent English soon after but the fear of IDEs stayed, and eventually I turned towards electronics instead.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 304d
Thanks now I’m having flashbacks
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 11 pts · 304d
Wow, I just learnt from your comment history that you likely don't even speak Czech. This must have been hell.
By the way, English not being my first language is one of the factors why I'm not a programmer, see the edit to the above comment.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 304d
Just needed a little bit of patience and a whole lotta Google Translate
genfood@feddit.org · 14 pts · 304d
There is something like this? 😂
waigl@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 304d
Well, in PHP you cannot #define new words from some new language to mean basic language keywords.
argh_another_username@lemmy.ca · 36 pts · 304d
I worked with one of the authors of the Brazilian SQL. It was exactly what it looks, every reserved word translated to Brazilian Portuguese.
ByteJunk@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 304d
Oh god. I still have nightmares about that time I had excel formulas in Portuguese, I refuse to think about SQL.
eager_eagle@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 304d
Don't forget the keyboard shortcuts. Office products would change shortcuts according to the language, so it would be more mnemonic. Ctrl-F for find and Ctrl-B for bold would be reassigned to whatever initials that language had. Fun! /s
Hudell@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 304d
Not even the right initials. Most of the actions' names had the same few initials so they had to find synonyms to use the shortcut for. Search was Ctrl+L (from Locate). In other cases they just used whatever letter was next on the keyboard to the initial that was already in use.
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 303d
Man I’m glad Dutch keyboards are just US international. So all the shortcuts are just the same as the English version. So I never had to unlearn localized shortcuts.
fibojoly@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 304d
Oh shit, I'd never get anything done, as I'd imagine my lovely friend's accent reading this shit out.
Selecione * de tbl_minha-tabela onde nome não é nuloHahaha! I love it!argh_another_username@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 304d
That reminds me, I had to modify a program written in VB once. The guy who created it wrote every table, every column, every view in Portuguese, WITH ACCENTS! It works, we simply have to put everything between brackets, but it doesn’t add anything to clarity. It looks awful and seems pedantic.
some_random_nick@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 304d
Grrman C might be fake, but German Excel isn't.
fibojoly@sh.itjust.works · 28 pts · 304d
Localised Excel formulas makes me so angry, it's hard to put it into words.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 18 pts · 304d
Just copy from Excel, then paste into Word. 🤷♂️
Rooster326@programming.dev · 6 pts · 304d
That's the problem. It's not called Word in other countries!
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 304d
Word, yo!
rucksack@feddit.org · 7 pts · 304d
Commas as a decimal separator be like: Guten Tag
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 5 pts · 303d
And the commas between function arguments in formulas become Semicola instead
fibojoly@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 304d
Bonjour!
Valmond@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 304d
I remember a bug where the PC at an electrical substation was in french, so 'if' had to be changed to 'si' in the excel sheet ...
palordrolap@fedia.io · 21 pts · 304d
Pretty sure
druckefshould bedrucked.printfmeansprint(to)file. "File" is valid German, but it is non-standard and "Datei" seems to be the preferred form.I could also argue that that
dshould be capitalised, but I'm already overstepping my bounds considering I know very little German.I wouldn't want to say which should take precedence between C's preference for all-lowercase keywords and functions and German's Rule to capitalise all Nouns.
Kwdg@discuss.tchncs.de · 23 pts · 304d
I think
druckefis correct, thefmeansformat.fprintfwould bddruckeforDdruckeFe8d79@discuss.tchncs.de · 22 pts · 304d
Are you sure the
fis supposed to meanfileand notformat, as in print a formatted string?Grtz78@feddit.org · 5 pts · 304d
Blödsinn. Richtig heißt das "druckefuck".
belastend@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 304d
Du hast vollkommen Recht :)
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 304d
Nee, de f in printf staat voor format, niet voor file.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 304d
nederlands ees nur duits met veelen dooppelbuuchstaaben, ooder?
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 8 pts · 304d
Thaat's beecaauusee aafteer eenoouugh Schnaaps yoouu seeee doouublee. #DuutchIisDruunkGeermaan
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 304d
Wir nutzen Doppelvokalen anstelle von der Umlaut und die Kasus sind nicht so kompliziert.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 304d
*dooppelvookaalen
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social · 17 pts · 304d
The concept of foreign languages in code confuses and frightens me
lauha@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 304d
But all programming language already are in a foreign language to most people.
Revan343@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 304d
There's also rost
kamen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 304d
Wow, that's cursed.
Yaky@slrpnk.net · 14 pts · 304d
Why? Programming language isn't a natural language. In fact, I think not knowing English makes it easier, since you cannot attach any preconceived notions, assumptions, or word order to keywords. I learned some Pascal, Visual Basic and whatever GameMaker used at the time without being fluent in English.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 304d
Foreign? For some these languages are native. Foreign is relative.
(I'm just being pedantic, i understand that relatively to you - and me - this is foreign)
kickeriekuh@discuss.tchncs.de · 17 pts · 304d
Well, you can Code in a real German syntax: https://ddp.im/en/
A_norny_mousse@feddit.org · 13 pts · 304d
Gottimhimmel, that would drive me crazy, and I'm German.
The code screenshot is pretty nice though. Actual grammar in there, full sentences that "Goethe would be proud of".
elvith@feddit.org · 3 pts · 304d
The syntax and all these
Wennreminds me of Cucumber/GherkinOpisek@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 304d
Why yes I always dreamed of writing code like a full on novel.
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 304d
I'm all in favor of
zuruckreplacingreturn, because that just sounds cooler. Pluszdoesn't get enough use in my programs these days.d_k_bo@feddit.org · 5 pts · 304d
*
zurückDo C compilers support non-ascii characters?
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 304d
Do as most non-DACH countries do: Just use the regular letter instead of the Umlaut.
Example:
Über-Mensch -> Uber-Mensch
d_k_bo@feddit.org · 7 pts · 304d
But that's just wrong.
ühas a different meaning and pronunciation thanu.If umlauts aren't available, the correct way to write umlauts is with an additional
e:zurueck.Please be aware that this term can be problematic, since it can be seen as a foundation for fascist ideas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbermensch#Use_by_the_Nazis
vaionko@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 303d
This makes it horrible to read. An example that comes to mind is a Finnish athlete with the last name Määttä. If it was Maatta, it would be pronounced differently but still understandable if you knew the person. But it was translated into Maeaettae which is just horrible
Haaveilija@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 303d
Also "Maatta" is a different word in Finnish with its own meaning: "without a country" or "without a land", while "Määttä" does not have this meaning. I agree that the aeae makes it horrible to read, though. Another athlete whose name has some ä's that make the it difficult to read when turned into ae's is Mäkäräinen which then becomes Maekaeraeinen :D
siipale@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 284d
Finnish doesn't have umlauts. Characters ä and ö are entirely different and separate from a and o so it doesn't make sense to add the letter e signifying a-umlaut or o-umlaut when writing in Finnish. German has umlauts so it makes sense to write either ä or ae when writing in German.
I agree it's best to write Maatta if letter ä is not available. I suppose the vocal harmony makes it easy to distinguish whether a is supposed to be a or ä and if o is supposed to be o or ö.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 303d
Didnt have a better and fitting example
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 2 pts · 303d
If you replace the ü in "Das Wetter ist schwül" ("the weather is humid") with a u though, you get "the weather is gay".
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 303d
Never said it's a good substitute 🤷
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 304d
I often use z as a temp variable when i need something to compare to when creating new code but don't want a separate window to the side or to experiment with something but don't yet know what the result can or will be. I use z purely just because i know z is very very unlikely to have been used elsewhere, and if for some reason it has, then i just name it 'zz'.
This is actually temporary by the way. It does not stay in my code. Once I'm done with it, i delete it.
RavuAlHemio@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 304d
You are missing the Neuzeil at the end of the Schnur.
TheMightyCat@ani.social · 11 pts · 304d
Forget that the real evil is that the first character of Int or Ganz in this case is capitalized
lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 304d
German has a word for it: Substantivgroßschreibung
Opisek@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 304d
Quellcodeanglizismussubstastivbeispielersatzgroßschreibungsregel
eigenraum@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 304d
Ich will das! 😍 Zurück 0;
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 304d
Versuche, fangen, aus.
A_norny_mousse@feddit.org · 9 pts · 304d
My German teacher: any usage of the verb 🦵-halten in your essay is a point off.
Opisek@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 304d
What's wrong with beinhalten?
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 7 pts · 304d
Handhalten is more romantic.
hakunawazo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 304d
The romantic version would be händchenhalten. Handhalten sounds efficiently German, but not romantic.
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 3 pts · 304d
But that ruins the joke! You Germans and your utter and complete lack of a sense of humour, sheesh.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 304d
It doesn't fit very well in this context, the idea behind "beinhalten" is that the subject "includes" the object (i.e. the object is part of the content of the subject), but the #include command in the C preprocessor isn't about describing that kind of situation, it's a command "I want to include one file in another", a better verb in German for that is "einbinden". (I realize this isn't a very good explanation, but I'm a native speaker of German and can tell you that no one would use the verb "beinhalten" in this context.)
The previous commenter's German teacher likely prefers "enthalten" instead of "beinhalten", which has the same problem in this context though.
A_norny_mousse@feddit.org · 3 pts · 304d
Overuse and lack of elegance, in her opinion.
We still loved her though.
ornery_chemist@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 304d
Maybe incorrect rebracketing? It's supposed to be be-inhalten, not bein-halten. Otherwise maybe a writing style thing...
dick_fineman@discuss.online · 8 pts · 303d
I prefer to code by yelling at Chat GPT, copy-pasting to Grok, telling Grok Chat GPT said it couldn't write cleaner code, then going back and forth between the 2 with fake insults from the other until one declares a Jihad on the other. I think it's called "vibe coding".
LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 303d
Yes, I want my code with a side of deforestation
Alaknar@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 303d
Just think about it - the more deforested areas, the more room for data centres and power plants! It's literally a win-win!
LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 303d
The whole earth covered with warm, unliving metal as a tribute to the earth's core
dick_fineman@discuss.online · 2 pts · 303d
Silly librul, everyone knows forests are a lie sold to us by big-pharma so they can sell us more vaccines. That's why I take my Ivermectin enemas daily, and you should too! It helps you see through the Jewish Space Lasers!
30p87@feddit.org · 5 pts · 304d
Most fucked up thing here is
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 304d
I must be old because I remember that as being the standard form until Java popularized
I mean I'm not that old, but I was reading more C and C++ books and tutorials when I was a kid, because "ew Java"
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 304d
Das ist K&R C, du Banause!
30p87@feddit.org · 2 pts · 303d
Ich verklage Brian Kernighan und Dennis Ritchie auf Schmerzensgeld.
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 303d
you need to compile c with a c++ compiler to be able to define macros for keywords iirc. But I did do this once to translate c to my native language, Maltese. It was cursed
paequ2@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 304d
sí has entered the chat
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub · 3 pts · 304d
Flashbacks to programming a Siemens PLC. That was on a "portable" PG with a CRT screen.