But why?! The USA is a paradise for women! Isn't that what Margaret Atwood taught us!?
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/697382/record-numbers-younger-women-leave.aspx
https://news.gallup.com/poll/697382/record-numbers-younger-women-leave.aspx
But why?! The USA is a paradise for women! Isn't that what Margaret Atwood taught us!?
115 Comments
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca · 92 pts · 292d
The real shocker is the number of people who don't.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 42 pts · 292d
Personally, I consider it a civic duty to help fix the country instead of abandoning it. If all the good people leave, things are gonna get way worse, and it's gonna start leaking all over the planet.
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca · 16 pts · 292d
True, true. It was "want" to leave though.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 291d
I can see that, but if the want to stay eclipses the want to leave, arithmetically I consider that a net "want" to stay.
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 291d
True, true...
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · -4 pts · 291d
Do you always run away from your battles? It's not about wanting to fight, or get hurt... It's about wanting a better country, and a better world.
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 291d
Me? No. I don't live in a shithole country. I really hope Americans can fix their shit so it stays that way.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 291d
Unless you can alter laws about corporations, lobbying, and billionaires, the USA is going to be changed by good people staying there. The power of the people is now a facade, you'll get arrested for domestic terrorism charges or something
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 291d
I will agree with that statement 100%
however, there's a caveat where if someone's personal safety and life are at risk by the state, there's absolutely no shame in fleeing.
also the "stay and fix your country" is usually a racist dogwhistle. I am assuming you don't mean it like that. just bringing it up
Maeve@kbin.earth · 2 pts · 291d
I've been doing that since Clinton and all I see is people clamoring for "centrist" candidates who are now so far right, "center" is right of Nixon.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 291d
Is "stay and fix your country" a racist dog whistle? I wouldn't imagine racists would really consider leaving in the first place.
neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 291d
I believe he meant the racism was in saying that to people to be anti immigration. As in: we don't want people from mexico coming to america! Stay and fix your own country!
If everyone was like that, wed have little ability to immigrate anywhere
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 291d
it's used against immigrants or refugees. "they should stay there and fix their problems"
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 290d
Ah. Well, considering I'm referring to my own strategy, I think I'm safe.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 290d
yhea, I assumed so. didn't mean to accuse you.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 291d
It's already affecting the planet in extreme ways. I'm with you, we have to stay as long as there's a chance we can help.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 291d
I agree and in the case of the us I think the onus is a bit higher considering our history. Folks were here before us and folks are here because of us and the least we can do is not be a shit show.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 8 pts · 291d
Im not a woman and im not young but I would love to be somewhere else. Honestly I sorta worry whats happening here is being mirrored elsewhere so in a few years it may not matter.
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 290d
It'll get exported faster if we don't stay and face it. We already have the biggest military in the world, by an order of magnitude; we're not post-WWI Germany. If fascism takes hold here, the whole world is cooked.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 290d
yeah. I have peppered through my comment history how I would like to leave but its a quandry since sensible folk abandoning the country would lead to less sensible folks.
santa@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 292d
Or would if the could afford it.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 291d
This is our home, not their home. Fuck the fascists.
We aren't all cowards like the people in charge.
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 50 pts · 291d
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 291d
Yeah, I get why women don't want to live here, particularly in states that have banned abortion. It's fucked up, and I don't fault them for abandoning their country.
I do hope enough of us keep fighting, though.
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 8 pts · 291d
I know, right? That's obviously not how people really behave!
hanrahan@piefed.social · 1 pts · 289d
And yet enabled by other women
https://truthout.org/articles/yes-55-percent-of-white-women-voted-for-trump-no-im-not-surprised/
Waldelfe@feddit.org · 39 pts · 291d
I have a good American friend here in Germany who has a great chance of getting a permanent status and later citizenship. She's already pretty good at German after 2 years and was offered a permanent local contract. She told me last week she's probably not taking the offer and going back to the US because she earns more and pays less taxes there. I asked about healthcare cost and all she talked about was how contraception was completely free in her american insurance and she has a copay here, how much less taxes she paid and she didn't like how the German law handles paternity issues (it's harder to get out of your obligations if your wife cheated and the kid isn't yours).
It was so weird. So many American women wish they were in her position and all she talked about was going back to the US due to paternity laws and the 10€ copay on her contraception which made her really angry for some reason.
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 24 pts · 291d
People be stupid, yo! I decided in 1999 I'd never again set foot on US soil because I'd rather pay higher taxes and have a sane society around me.
And now I pay lower taxes than a USAnian and have a sane society around me.
YesButActuallyMaybe@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 291d
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 3 pts · 290d
I never did have that fear. I've never lived in the USA.
Now if things get much hotter I might have a minor niggling fear that a US bomb will drop on my head, but for now not even Trump and his coterie are stupid enough to let things get that far.
Cricket@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 291d
Where is this magical place, if you don't mind saying? I'd love to live there. :)
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 2 pts · 290d
Me personally, I live in Wuhan.
Cricket@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 290d
Awesome, thanks for answering!
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 291d
Major red flag for her partner lol
CptOblivius@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 291d
I don't believe this would be a major opinion by any woman I have ever known. This is likely a fictitious post.
Waldelfe@feddit.org · 5 pts · 291d
Why? She thinks it should be more in favor of the man and he should be able to easily up and leave anytime after finding out the kid isn't his.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 291d
I guess... But why even care about that unless you plan to cheat? I feel like most people would never even know that's a thing. There's really only one reason someone would look that up.
QuizzaciousOtter@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 291d
I'm afraid this one reason might be much more common that you seem to think.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 291d
Didn't say it was uncommon
QuizzaciousOtter@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 291d
Right, just pointing out that if it's common then it might be worth caring about even if it doesn't affect you personally.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 291d
Its USA brainwashing, they feel they are fighting the "enemy" by not paying tax. Even though that extra take home pay ends up going to health care, or car expenses due to lack of transit etc.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 291d
It comes from the idea that our government is so inherently corrupt that they can't be trusted to do anything correctly with our money, so people would rather keep their money and spend it on themselves directly.
And I have to say these people are justified, our government doesn't spend our money on worthwhile things.
I think the systems where people pay higher taxes usually work better, tho.
stringere@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 291d
We don't even need to raise taxes. All the money we need for social services is in the military budget that hasn't passed a successful audit this century.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 291d
Yeah, we have literally all the money we need to pay for all our social services.
We spend as much as the next 7 largest militaries COMBINED.
It's such a massive grift, and we can't touch the military budget because it's the only form of welfare that works and tons of Americans NEED it.
stringere@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 291d
I'd be fine with our military expenditures if we used them for civil engineering in peacetime... And I guess we would have to stop those pesky undeclared wars as a happy knock on effect.
IronBird@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 291d
we spend more on healthcare than the military last i checked (but again, no audit on DoD spending so...)
stringere@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 291d
Even so, that's ~800 billion that could be used for social services and improving lives.
Also if we're so skint that we can't afford to take care of the basics...how did we find all that ICE money? After a massive revenue cut, also!
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network · 11 pts · 291d
People are emotional creatures.
People also don't seem to accept that you often get something for paying taxes. Infrastructure, schools, food inspectors, whatever.
Cricket@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 291d
Yikes. Does she wear a MAGA hat? She sounds like the type.
Waldelfe@feddit.org · 2 pts · 290d
No, actually she worked on one of Kamala Harris' campaigns and proudly wears the campaign tshirt. Which is why her attitude confused me so much. I'm not sure what's going on with her other than that even a well educated American can still have a lot of indoctrination and believe the American way is always the best way.
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 3 pts · 290d
Leftist groups in China have learned not to engage with American leftist groups since the 2020 Pride fiasco in Shanghai. American groups always act as if they know better than locals what local conditions are, what local culture will or will not tolerate, and what tactics will or will not work under local conditions. The LGBT community spent decades on patient diplomacy winning all kinds of victories (like queer sex being removed from criminal law and queerness being removed as a mental disorder) for themselves. Then in 2009 they got persuaded by American LGBT groups to hold Pride events. And when that didn't get stomped, to get more and more confrontational and strident in them.
Until in 2020 the authorities had had enough and stomped. Hard. Undoing at least three decades of the patient diplomacy in the process.
Now leftist groups in China do the polite "nod, smile, ignore" cycle when told by Americans how to run their affairs.
Cricket@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 290d
I think this is it too.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 25 pts · 291d
The irony is the Conservatives wanted women's rights removed and have them back at home to make white babies, because they fear the mixed culture. And they may now be left with a country mostly made of men, which will obviously shrink their baby birthing plan.
sureshot@discuss.online · 9 pts · 291d
PeacefulForest@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 291d
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 290d
And nobody will have babies with economy bad because women at home. But that's too complicated for them.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 291d
They can just breed with the brown women until their kids are not brown enough.
🧐
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 291d
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 291d
See?
You don't have to worry about white genocide that way. Just reverse the game and outbreed the invaders
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 290d
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 290d
Thick black women ftw
cdnwaffleiron@lemmy.ca · 24 pts · 291d
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 291d
Yeah, I would too if I went on a road trip across the country and gained and lost human rights as I crossed state borders.
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 21 pts · 291d
I wouldnt mind moving out of the US.
sausager@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 291d
I'm not a woman but it's been my dream for years. Now that I have a child it's my goal to help him escape.
echodot@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 290d
Quite a few European countries including the UK I believe are starting to develop policies that would help highly educated Americans get citizenship on a fast track scheme. We don't want a lot of scientific knowledge to go away just because America has decided to fall apart. Come work on our particle accelerators, experimental fusion reactors, or join the European space agency. It would be nice if we could have human space flight independent of Roscosmos and NASA. Maybe we could even beat NASA back to the moon, since I can't really see Artemis making any progress anytime soon.
I don't think anyone's got as far as actually implementing any of these policies yet, but they're on the way.
I'm sure China would also happily accept Americans, but you might not want to go that route.
sausager@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 290d
Did I mention I have an art degree lol. However my wife is an engineer, I'm trying to convince her but it's slow going. She doesn't think it's as urgent as I do
Quexotic@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 290d
Same. My wife doesn't want to be far away from family.
I've got 2 kids and I want them to have a better life.
I've looked into emigrating and I'm afraid I just don't have the spoons for it either. Between those 2 hurdles, I don't know if it'll ever happen.
Still, there's potential. We both have degrees. I just hope she doesn't become a target. She's a little higher profile.
arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 16 pts · 292d
Makes sense, I'm mostly just trying to determine where to go at this point.
bitofarambler@crazypeople.online · 7 pts · 292d
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 291d
Yeah, how to do it?
bitofarambler@crazypeople.online · 1 pts · 291d
tldr is "$500 per month income via remote work, choose your first destination, buy a plane ticket."
I can go into as much detail and provide as much context as you'd like depending on your circumstances and interest, so fire away.
DrFistington@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 292d
I was really hopeful about new Zealand, but it appears they have their own pedorrists to deal with
Mr_WorldlyWiseman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 291d
You can get by pretty well with just English in Scandinavia, Britain, and Ireland. Many of the big cities also have a lot of English speakers.
The easiest way to move is if you can find a job or have a lot of money to invest. Also sometimes possible to get citizenship through your family. I'd recommend hunting for jobs on LinkedIn if you're in a specialized field, or see if there are any offices near you for a European company.
If none of that is possible for you, I would recommend moving to a large left-wing city with good trains like NYC, Philadelphia, Portland, etc. They'll be closer culturally to Europe, less vulnerable to fascism, and may give you more job opportunities toward Europe in the long run.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 291d
"Also older women. And younger men. And older men."
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 1 pts · 290d
Someone didn't read the article. Or look at the graphs. Despite the graphs being at the head of the post.
oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 13 pts · 292d
I also want to leave this shithole, there’s nothing good here
bitofarambler@crazypeople.online · 4 pts · 292d
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 291d
I believe there are far more decent people here than evil. Hell, look at Trump's polling numbers: 63% disaprove.
This country has a serious problem with apathy, oppression, and corruption. It's broken, and it needs to be repaired by a new breed of American that can see a future where others do not.
djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 291d
I've been trying to help fix it for like 15+ years at this point, I just genuinely don't see a path forward. This country was broken long before Trump, and people just didn't seem to care. Now that it's starting to personally hurt them, I've seen more people start to turn up, but many of them have the attitude of "I can't wait for this to be over." I expect as soon as Trump is out and replaced with a Democrat ghoul, a lot of the attendance at the meetings I go to will drop again.
When Balkanization starts getting put on the table as a serious solution that would meaningfully make things better, you know a situation is incredibly fucked.
heavy@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 292d
Who can blame them? From what I've seen out of young men and the rise of the "red pill" culture, women are more objectified than ever IMO
Gork@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 292d
Saw a Fox News version of this article. The comments were nauseating 🤮
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 290d
I looked it up. Won't post a link here, but "Fox" in the search with OP's title and it comes right up.
The amount of pure cope in the comments is astounding. If 40% of the young women actually did leave, they wouldn't be so cheery about it.
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 11 pts · 291d
Well at least somebody is paying attention.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 291d
Who can blame them?
bitofarambler@crazypeople.online · 11 pts · 292d
j4k3@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 292d
Most do not have the money but to barely survive.
bitofarambler@crazypeople.online · 3 pts · 292d
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 4 pts · 291d
I've been living in China for 25 years. My salary is 1/10 of what I made in Canada (Ottawa) but I'm much better off than the colleagues I left behind right now.
bitofarambler@crazypeople.online · 3 pts · 291d
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 3 pts · 291d
I live in that city basically nobody outside of China ever heard of until 2020. 😉
Cost of living in Canada has shot up stupidly in Canada in the past two years on top of the already pretty stupid costs vs. salaries. I was making quite a bit of money, but I still had to pay close attention to my budget.
In China my salary is a tenth of what my Canadian salary was 25 years ago and I rarely have to worry about money. It's quite liberating.
bitofarambler@crazypeople.online · 2 pts · 291d
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 3 pts · 291d
Talking of cost of living, however...
In ... I want to say 2007? ... an old colleague and his wife visited my SO and me for six weeks. When he got back home he started going over their finances, cringing at the anticipated expenses.
They'd saved money.
They spent a ridiculous sum on airfare. They lived in a hotel near my home for the entire six weeks. We ate out for each meal daily. And yet, when they got home, between the drastic reduction in their utilities usage over the period and the zero cost in groceries for six weeks they came out ahead (by about two weeks, according to his analysis).
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 2 pts · 291d
No, weirdly. I worked in tech firms, but I did marketing. Switching to teaching English in China was a huge step down in my salary. Now I'm back in marketing, as of 2016, working for a local company as their "cultural expert". (Officially on paper I'm a PA, but in reality I tend to lead all the stuff related to international things.)
thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 290d
To anyone who truly feels this way, please consider coming to Australia.
We aren’t perfect, but we will damned sure treat you a lot better than the US has.
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 7 pts · 290d
Chinese in Australia are reporting differently.
thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 290d
My comment was explicitly towards those disenfranchised within the US, who would face no issue with assimilating into Australian society and culture.
Just for the record: 我老婆是中国人，所以我了解澳大利亚的种族歧视问题。
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 290d
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 290d
Weird, I wonder why? 🫠
Taleya@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 291d
If this is a suprise you're a fucking idiot
Maeve@kbin.earth · 6 pts · 292d
Huh, I'm an older woman who wants to leave.
nwtreeoctopus@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 291d
n7gifmdn@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 291d
middle-aged dude follows younger women....checks out
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 290d
If you're educated or have a Department of Labor recognized skilled labor certificate (for example Union Apprenticeship) GTFO of the USA.
GarboDog@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 290d
Hello, fellow woman who left the USA back in March o7
Fuck USA, the EU has been amazing so far! Lol
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 2 pts · 290d
Small correction: I've never lived in the USA (though I came close to making that fatal mistake in 1999). I've lived in ... ah ... well ... many countries, but my citizenship is Canadian.
And yeah, Europe is a really nice place to live. I finished my secondary schooling in Europe and it was like going to school in Disneyland for me.
GarboDog@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 290d
That is literally a bullet dodged and a half. Europe has been feeling like a whole new world, one that makes sense and we don’t feel in danger. That does make it a Disney land huh? Lol
For us we were born in the USA and it always felt like we were trapped. Born raised and lived in poverty. Being disabled didn’t help at all either. We worked for a while and we finally able to move with the help of our significant other. We’re still trying to get permanent residency but you will not see us in the USA any time soon.
Beebabe@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 290d
I am highly educated, but I’m a single parent. That seems to pretty much tank my worth across the board.
Jaybird@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 290d
Beebabe@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 290d
Yeah it’s a pretty big dealbreaker for a lot of people. Even if kids are grown and independent. Fair enough.
Jaybird@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 289d
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 287d
Online surveys that ask women if they want to leave the United States often produce misleading results for several reasons.
First, these surveys capture wishful thinking rather than actual plans. When people answer an online poll, they respond based on imagination rather than commitment. Saying you want to move to another country is similar to saying you want to live on a beach or work fewer hours. It reflects a fantasy, not a genuine intention.
Second, these surveys attract people who are already dissatisfied or curious about change. This creates a self selected group that does not represent the population as a whole. If someone is bored, stressed, or daydreaming about a different lifestyle, they are more likely to click the poll.
Third, many respondents interpret the question emotionally rather than practically. Wanting to “leave the country” can actually mean wanting a break, wanting adventure, or wanting to travel. It rarely means navigating visas, finding new jobs, learning new languages, or building a life abroad. Travel and exploration are appealing because they offer novelty without long term consequences. True immigration requires commitment that most people never make.
Because of these factors, online polls mainly reveal a desire for change or travel rather than a real plan to emigrate. They reflect mood and curiosity, not a solid decision to leave the country.
beemikeoak@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 290d
It's OK so long as Bobba doesn't leave
roserose56@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 291d
Will the move to Paris, Venice, Lisboa or Amsterdam?
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 291d
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 2 pts · 290d
Ooh! Barcelona! Nice choice!
You might consider Portugal as well. Several really nice places there too.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 290d
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 2 pts · 290d
Oh, absolutely no shade on Barcelona. It's one of the world greats city-wise.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · -6 pts · 290d
Send me your thick fit ones.
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 3 pts · 290d
Well that's Canada removed as a destination for women wanting to escape gross, toxic masculinity I guess.
Raiderkev@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 290d
OP rn
https://youtu.be/YbaGry1F_VU
SketchySeaBeast@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 290d
Tell me you're single without telling me you're single.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 290d
Nothing gets by you. Mind like a steel trap, that one.
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · -7 pts · 291d
Women wanting to travel is nothing new. These surveys aren't worth a good or bad poop.
Routhinator@startrek.website · 13 pts · 291d
This is talking about migration, not a damned vacation.
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · -2 pts · 290d
Same diff. Usa Women love to travel long time.
Why would you Damn a vacation?
Sticks and stones may break my bones but routhinator will always find something to be upset about.
Amuletta@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 287d
Moving out a country to permanently live somewhere else is not "traveling" or a "vacation". How do you not get that?
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 287d
What don't you get about puff pieces And cherry picking data from someone w a keyboard?
What don't you get about how surveys aren't real life?
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 4 pts · 290d
Tell me you didn't read the article and/or understand it.
Well done, Skippy!
Nomorereddit@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 290d
This article comes out every other day. If you read you'd have seen it before.
And learn to skip, mrs poopy.
Gallup notes this is desire (aspiration), not necessarily a real plan — “not everyone who wants to move will move.” https://news.gallup.com/poll/697382/record-numbers-younger-women-leave.aspx
ZDL@lazysoci.al · 1 pts · 290d
There is still a massive difference, you utter fucking numbskull, between "aspirational tourism" and "aspirational migration".
The kiddy table is over that way. Adults are speaking here and don't need your childish blather.