Shoot this dot, go to that dot, bring "x" to this dot...
Anything requiring critical thinking like a puzzle, the bot just brute forces trying every possible outcome until something works.
It works because games have a finite set of options and at least one progresses. The real world isn't that clean, and you don't get infinite chances to get 1 correct solution.
If they're as good at the game as LLMs are at writing, the bots would probably try to build a Nether portal using black wool instead of obsidian, then set it on fire, then die burning on said fire.
Yes! I went kind of hard into technical Minecraft during COVID and used it a lot. It's more of an automation framework, it's a terrific piece of software but not "AI".
I've dicked around with a baritone+LLM setup but it's really hard to get the model to do anything worthwhile. The model doesn't really see the world around it, just whatever textual representation you manage to make of it. It's slow and frustrating and only gets the very basic tasks right.
I would imagine a vision+interaction model would be leaps and bounds better at any interesting application. Ultimately I'd love to see a civilization of bots building its own base with mega farms and shit...
Did you see the one where someone trained bots to do crystal pvp on 2b2t? It was fascinating and actually "AI" (not LLM AI but what we would've called AI pre LLM/gen AI lol). I don't remember much else. Basically the bots actually saw the screen, not at full resolution, but enough to really see and move and attack players in a very advanced way. (Crystal PVP involves putting down end crystals and detonating them, it's much more involved than just clicking with a sword or aiming arrows.)
I totally missed that ! Thanks for the reference I'll try to find it.
I used to hang with a crew that was really into crystal pvp, this brings back memories. Personally I find it pretty boring but the coding part on their custom clients was pretty fun.
Shut up and get back down the mines or your robot manager-security-cop will have to terminate you. Meet your billionaire-enforced quota and you'll live to enjoy another day of mining.
I want LLMs to be used to create thousands of characters that have agency in like, Skyrim or something, and to watch the absolutely unhinged fucking chaos of what it creates.
If you use ai as an additive technology rather a replacement to things then really cool, ethical oppurtinitites open up for its use.
Rather than training a voice actor for a small handful of npcs that say the same four lines ad infinitum,pay them the same amount to
License their voice, train a model, and use that for the game. Pair this with an LLM and suddenly you have pcs capable of saying all kinds of hillarious shit.
Have the coders that always write box behaviour to write the behaviour of npcs. The give players the option to talk them into doing some weird LLM powered shit.
Like. You can use ai to add things to games. It doesn't have to replace people's
I think a part of why people hate it is that idiots are trying to use it to replace things people do.
Where it's best is when it does things people can't
When you create a character with one of those models you are creating that character with intent and purpose. What it thinks, talks, etc etc. it’s not easy to do that. The writing is still there.
In fact you’d take quotes you want the npc to say so that it understands how it uses language. The difference is that you might get a sentence constructed slightly differently.
Y'all laugh but there are way too many people into idle games, not to mention people who prefer watching a stream (even without commentary) over playing a game itself.
I cannot comprehend why, though, just like I can't comprehend how cheating (particularly single player) can be fun.
how cheating (particularly single player) can be fun
Have you never played a game with unreasonable grind that saps all the fun out of it ? Often just to drive player hours and 'engagement'. Multiplayer cheats however can die in a fire.
I suppose. When I'm referring to cheats, it's more in regards to invulnerability, infinite resources, etc., which seem to sap the point of having a game in the first place. Like making the fun parts into a grind, rather than the other way around.
That said, I'll also say sometimes part of the challenge is the grind, so it depends. You have to pick your own poison, right?
Like, take Silksong for example. You lose out on the full experience if you mod out the annoying run from bench to boss, it's like a 40 second annoyance built in punishment. But I get why you'd do that-- it's technically there for a reason but I get it. Hell, even the difficulty adjustment mods I can understand.
But making the bosses die in one hit or making yourself invulnerable? Now you've lost me, that's like a core element of the game; you might as well just watch someone else play it because what's the point.
When I was a child I used to ask my dad to input the invulnerability cheat in Doom. I was way too bad at movement, aiming and basically just everything, that I could have had fun otherwise. Likewise for Anno 1602, there I needed the money cheat because otherwise I'd just go bankrupt. I didn't understand the income balance yet but I still had fun building economy chains.
I'm not sure I have a point here. Just remembered cheating as a child because I needed it. Probably haven't cheated in 18 years now.
My dad entered in codes for me when I was really little, but that's kind of another thing entirely. I don't think little kids have an achievement oriented sorta version of play, so anything goes with them. Once you're older, that dopamine rush just hits differently, though.
In education you could also consider it a form of scaffolding. Enabling someone to do something they normally can't do is a form of development, like giving handicaps in games and stuff can foster the skills to not need them eventually.
I mean it used to be the norm for games to have cheat codes built into them. Maybe you get stuck on one part and need help, maybe you have fun spawning a bunch of weapons and going on a rampage (see GTA), or maybe you just want to see what happens if you spawn a giant enemy in a small room.
I don't watch others playing games, either, but someone who likes those streams told me he didn't see a difference between watching good gamers play games and good football players play football.
I actually thought about that after my comment and summoning a tank from nowhere was fun. At least for a little bit... but maybe mostly for the novelty of it all. Also I was like, 12.
I mean it varies. It's fun to just goof off in games sometimes. That's why sandbox games like Minecraft typically have creative modes, sometimes you just wanna play in the sandbox and have a good time without the more typical game parts tying you down
I was laughing along until you said "watching a stream (even without commentary)". Yeah I've done that one. Sometimes I want to see what's next in the game without spending 100 hours to get there ><. Also watching lets me mentally unwind, playing takes a mental toll.
I think we're all kinda beat down by life, so I don't really judge people on it. I just am not one of them, haha. (But I don't even watch TV or movies much so I'm admittedly a weirdo).
I also don't watch TV or movies -- only Twitch streams. I've been this way even when not beaten down by capitalism and fascism though. Even when I'm taking a break from working on creative projects, it's still nice to be able to turn my brain off and get the experience of seeing the game. Maybe my unmedicated ADHD makes me that way.
Imagine thé thing you cook and guide a rimworld playing ia while making cookie then an horde attack you start yelling the cookie burn your base is lost.
People and corporations will automatize all the process and turn it into passive income, and a lot of people will somehow watch it, making the thing profitable.
A Minecraft and Roblox streamer tried that a year ago, primarily as a pitch to investors to make a service for other streamers to make AI-generated content. His name is Kwebbelkop. This guy managed to make the laziest brand of content I have ever even heard suggested as an idea: An AI avatar reading an AI reaction to an AI-generated image. And I thought reaction videos were bad...
None if you don't get caught. They're not going to do a full investigation if you don't try to murder the guy. Also, look how badly the current FBI fumbled the investigation into Charlie Kirk's killer? into Brian Thompson's killer?
It's crazy how much Brian Thompson isn't even a name in my head. If someone murders me, I only hope they're not so charismatic that when people try to remember me they just picture a beige balloon named John Lastname.
Except you don't need a neural net to do this, nor would you really want one for it because it would be incredibly slow unless you use the GPU to run it which might be a bit busy running the actual game. It's like a "make game run worse" option.
In game AI can be pretty sophisticated even without the addition of neural nets which could be OK with determining strategy based on player action, but really isn't going to be good for the entire control.
This kind of thing is only useful as tech demo for playing platformers and the like with the same inputs a human player would, basically more like a bot.
In game AI can be pretty sophisticated even without the addition of neural nets which could be OK with determining strategy based on player action, but really isn't going to be good for the entire control.
Given that it has been the weak point in almost all 4x games in the past 30 years, I'd be happy if they give anything novel a try
Good games are orthogonal to AI usage. It's possible to have a great game that was written with AI using AI-generated assets. Just as much as it's possible to have a shitty one.
If AI makes creating games easier, we're likely to see 1000 shitty games for every good one. But at the same time we're also likely to see successful games made by people who had great ideas but never had the capital or skills to bring them to life before.
I can't predict the future of AI but it's easy to imagine a state where everyone has the power to make a game for basically no cost. Good or bad, that's where we're heading.
If making great games doesn't require a shitton of capital, the ones who are most likely to suffer are the rich AAA game studios. Basically, the capitalists. Because when capital isn't necessary to get something done anymore, capital becomes less useful.
Effort builds skill but it does not build quality. You could put in a ton of effort and still fail or just make something terrible. What breeds success is iteration (and luck). Because AI makes iteration faster and easier, it's likely we're going to see a lot of great things created using it.
I doubt that. New services that host the open models are cropping up all the time. They're like VPS hosting providers (in fact, existing VPS hosts will soon break out into that space too).
It's not like Big AI has some huge advantage over the open source models. In fact, for images they're a little bit behind!
The FOSS coding models are getting pretty fantastic and they get better all the time. It seems like once a month a new, free model comes out that eclipses the previous generation once a month.
Bold to assume having an AI play the game for testing is actually useful. Given how buggy games release nowadays i genuinely wonder which companies still properly have play testers. An AI whose results you mostly ignore is pointless.
I suspect it's not a lack of playtesters that's the problem, but harsh deadlines and crunch. That type of environment leads to tech debt to get things working fast, which leads to hard-to-manage code, which leads to bugs...
It’s already been a few years, before the LLM boom, but a neural networked figured out how to play Super Mario Bros by simply looking at the RAM and it mastered the game.
If conditions are the same every run, it will eventually find the mathematically fastest way. I saw a video about a guy doing it, and after thousands of runs the bot noticed a glitch if the car wasn't on four wheels allowing it to move insanely fast. Like grinding a rail in Tony Hawk, the bot would immediately do it, and run the entire course on the glitch.
That's not human intelligence tho, that's the same as when a slime mold can design a transportation network as effectively as we can.
Apart from games, where this can also be used for more capabable and behaviourally more "interesting" NPCs (including computer opponents or teammates), the used techniques can be transferred to robotics. Quite a cool architecture.
I could see this being useful for those with disabilities like muscular dystrophy. Maybe let the AI handle repetitive, input-heavy parts and take over the gameplay at key moments so as to minimize muscle pain.
This might be a legitimate use case... maybe. Depends on if it can learn games similar enough to humans. Which i doubt. Might be better to just code bot mods but idk, ai-players would be kinda cool. How long before we have to guess if a player is human, cheating, or a bot though?
107 Comments
henfredemars@infosec.pub · 176 pts · 246d
I want AI to do my chores not play my games.
themeatbridge@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 246d
Right? Like, figure out how to sort and fold laundry.
Bluegrass_Addict@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 246d
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 246d
Work is hard, modern games are easy.
Shoot this dot, go to that dot, bring "x" to this dot...
Anything requiring critical thinking like a puzzle, the bot just brute forces trying every possible outcome until something works.
It works because games have a finite set of options and at least one progresses. The real world isn't that clean, and you don't get infinite chances to get 1 correct solution.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 245d
Sorry, AI must only be inserted into places it isn't actually wanted.
Zos_Kia@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 246d
Honestly I'd be curious about what a couple Minecraft bots could do. If you gave them a roadmap to endgame gear, what kind of farms would they build?
kadu@scribe.disroot.org · 6 pts · 245d
If they're as good at the game as LLMs are at writing, the bots would probably try to build a Nether portal using black wool instead of obsidian, then set it on fire, then die burning on said fire.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 1 pts · 245d
Sort of already exists as Baritone. https://github.com/cabaletta/baritone I'm not sure what all it can and can't do but it's pretty sophisticated.
Edit: Note that, as far as I know, none of it is AI in the modern usage of the term.
Zos_Kia@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 245d
Yes! I went kind of hard into technical Minecraft during COVID and used it a lot. It's more of an automation framework, it's a terrific piece of software but not "AI".
I've dicked around with a baritone+LLM setup but it's really hard to get the model to do anything worthwhile. The model doesn't really see the world around it, just whatever textual representation you manage to make of it. It's slow and frustrating and only gets the very basic tasks right.
I would imagine a vision+interaction model would be leaps and bounds better at any interesting application. Ultimately I'd love to see a civilization of bots building its own base with mega farms and shit...
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 1 pts · 245d
Did you see the one where someone trained bots to do crystal pvp on 2b2t? It was fascinating and actually "AI" (not LLM AI but what we would've called AI pre LLM/gen AI lol). I don't remember much else. Basically the bots actually saw the screen, not at full resolution, but enough to really see and move and attack players in a very advanced way. (Crystal PVP involves putting down end crystals and detonating them, it's much more involved than just clicking with a sword or aiming arrows.)
Zos_Kia@lemmynsfw.com · 2 pts · 245d
I totally missed that ! Thanks for the reference I'll try to find it.
I used to hang with a crew that was really into crystal pvp, this brings back memories. Personally I find it pretty boring but the coding part on their custom clients was pretty fun.
Venator@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 245d
Silver lining: maybe it could be used to make some games more accessible for people with disabilities
pastermil@sh.itjust.works · 103 pts · 246d
Great! Now the AI can play the video games for me while I do the dishes. I swear it was the other way around in the SciFi.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 35 pts · 246d
Shut up and get back down the mines or your robot manager-security-cop will have to terminate you. Meet your billionaire-enforced quota and you'll live to enjoy another day of mining.
pastermil@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 246d
Plot twist: turns out that at some point, the billionaire got replaced by robots who have learned to be megalomaniac assholes.
mPony@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 245d
Merry Christmas from Chiron Beta Prime :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3DyxaCYlfg
cronenthal@discuss.tchncs.de · 89 pts · 246d
Game companies: spend millions fighting cheating and cheat software.
Nvidia: here comes AI game assist!
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 48 pts · 246d
Next: game companies can subscribe to NVIDIA anti-AI-cheating AI. This is innovation under capitalism.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 246d
Cheaters have been using object detection AI to cheat for quite some time
ChicoSuave@lemmy.world · 71 pts · 245d
Why the fuck is AI always being applied to only parts of society that are fun?
aurelar@lemmy.ml · 44 pts · 245d
So you can spend more time working shit jobs for shit pay. Aren't you happy? 😊
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 5 pts · 245d
AI took that too! Oops all joblessness! 🤩
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 245d
I want LLMs to be used to create thousands of characters that have agency in like, Skyrim or something, and to watch the absolutely unhinged fucking chaos of what it creates.
I don't want it to play games for me.
LettyWhiterock@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
I don't even want that, I'd rather a game have its characters and writing created with intent by a person who cares.
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 243d
If you use ai as an additive technology rather a replacement to things then really cool, ethical oppurtinitites open up for its use.
Rather than training a voice actor for a small handful of npcs that say the same four lines ad infinitum,pay them the same amount to License their voice, train a model, and use that for the game. Pair this with an LLM and suddenly you have pcs capable of saying all kinds of hillarious shit.
Have the coders that always write box behaviour to write the behaviour of npcs. The give players the option to talk them into doing some weird LLM powered shit.
Like. You can use ai to add things to games. It doesn't have to replace people's
I think a part of why people hate it is that idiots are trying to use it to replace things people do.
Where it's best is when it does things people can't
LettyWhiterock@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 243d
I'm going to be honest those do not sound like good uses. I want games to be designed with intent, not on the spot by an LLM.
architect@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 241d
When you create a character with one of those models you are creating that character with intent and purpose. What it thinks, talks, etc etc. it’s not easy to do that. The writing is still there.
In fact you’d take quotes you want the npc to say so that it understands how it uses language. The difference is that you might get a sentence constructed slightly differently.
LettyWhiterock@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 241d
You're not. You're not doing that work. The LLM is.
nforminvasion@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 245d
That would be so freaking cool
architect@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 241d
I do too so I’m making a game that does that.
Not sure if I’ll get to fully flesh it out but if I’m doing it it’s definitely coming.
hperrin@lemmy.ca · 54 pts · 246d
That’s cool. AI can do art and writing and video games for me. It can watch all my shows. All I have to do is work and maybe sleep. Sounds fun.
hydrashok@sh.itjust.works · 48 pts · 246d
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 246d
Leonard > Amy
TriangleSpecialist@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 246d
I guess Elon won't be needing gamers' services to max out his characters anymore.
Fucking AI taking valuable jobs away again.
taiyang@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 246d
Y'all laugh but there are way too many people into idle games, not to mention people who prefer watching a stream (even without commentary) over playing a game itself.
I cannot comprehend why, though, just like I can't comprehend how cheating (particularly single player) can be fun.
MalReynolds@slrpnk.net · 17 pts · 246d
Have you never played a game with unreasonable grind that saps all the fun out of it ? Often just to drive player hours and 'engagement'. Multiplayer cheats however can die in a fire.
taiyang@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 246d
I suppose. When I'm referring to cheats, it's more in regards to invulnerability, infinite resources, etc., which seem to sap the point of having a game in the first place. Like making the fun parts into a grind, rather than the other way around.
That said, I'll also say sometimes part of the challenge is the grind, so it depends. You have to pick your own poison, right?
Like, take Silksong for example. You lose out on the full experience if you mod out the annoying run from bench to boss, it's like a 40 second annoyance built in punishment. But I get why you'd do that-- it's technically there for a reason but I get it. Hell, even the difficulty adjustment mods I can understand.
But making the bosses die in one hit or making yourself invulnerable? Now you've lost me, that's like a core element of the game; you might as well just watch someone else play it because what's the point.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 246d
When I was a child I used to ask my dad to input the invulnerability cheat in Doom. I was way too bad at movement, aiming and basically just everything, that I could have had fun otherwise. Likewise for Anno 1602, there I needed the money cheat because otherwise I'd just go bankrupt. I didn't understand the income balance yet but I still had fun building economy chains.
I'm not sure I have a point here. Just remembered cheating as a child because I needed it. Probably haven't cheated in 18 years now.
taiyang@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
My dad entered in codes for me when I was really little, but that's kind of another thing entirely. I don't think little kids have an achievement oriented sorta version of play, so anything goes with them. Once you're older, that dopamine rush just hits differently, though.
In education you could also consider it a form of scaffolding. Enabling someone to do something they normally can't do is a form of development, like giving handicaps in games and stuff can foster the skills to not need them eventually.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 245d
Good analogy. It also brought to mind the bumpers you can enable for kids in bowling.
OmgItBurns@discuss.online · 3 pts · 246d
I mean it used to be the norm for games to have cheat codes built into them. Maybe you get stuck on one part and need help, maybe you have fun spawning a bunch of weapons and going on a rampage (see GTA), or maybe you just want to see what happens if you spawn a giant enemy in a small room.
mech@feddit.org · 2 pts · 245d
Some games I want to play just to experience the storyline, but without getting stressed by danger or frustrated by getting stuck.
Evotech@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 246d
Then just don’t play that game lmao
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 245d
Cheats in single player games is a blast.
It gets old quick but it's fun for a while.
Bruncvik@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 245d
I don't watch others playing games, either, but someone who likes those streams told me he didn't see a difference between watching good gamers play games and good football players play football.
dev_null@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 246d
You never used cheat codes in GTA San Andreas and the like? It's a lot of fun
taiyang@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 245d
I actually thought about that after my comment and summoning a tank from nowhere was fun. At least for a little bit... but maybe mostly for the novelty of it all. Also I was like, 12.
Traister101@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 245d
I mean it varies. It's fun to just goof off in games sometimes. That's why sandbox games like Minecraft typically have creative modes, sometimes you just wanna play in the sandbox and have a good time without the more typical game parts tying you down
Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 243d
The one cheat code I still remember from that game by heart lol: aiwprton
architect@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 241d
Can someone tell me how an idle game is a game? There is no game being played in one of those.
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 245d
I was laughing along until you said "watching a stream (even without commentary)". Yeah I've done that one. Sometimes I want to see what's next in the game without spending 100 hours to get there ><. Also watching lets me mentally unwind, playing takes a mental toll.
taiyang@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
I think we're all kinda beat down by life, so I don't really judge people on it. I just am not one of them, haha. (But I don't even watch TV or movies much so I'm admittedly a weirdo).
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 244d
I also don't watch TV or movies -- only Twitch streams. I've been this way even when not beaten down by capitalism and fascism though. Even when I'm taking a break from working on creative projects, it's still nice to be able to turn my brain off and get the experience of seeing the game. Maybe my unmedicated ADHD makes me that way.
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 245d
Imagine thé thing you cook and guide a rimworld playing ia while making cookie then an horde attack you start yelling the cookie burn your base is lost.
morto@piefed.social · 26 pts · 246d
The age of ai-generated streamers is coming...
People and corporations will automatize all the process and turn it into passive income, and a lot of people will somehow watch it, making the thing profitable.
I'm tired of all this...
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 245d
A Minecraft and Roblox streamer tried that a year ago, primarily as a pitch to investors to make a service for other streamers to make AI-generated content. His name is Kwebbelkop. This guy managed to make the laziest brand of content I have ever even heard suggested as an idea: An AI avatar reading an AI reaction to an AI-generated image. And I thought reaction videos were bad...
I'm tired of all this...
MoreZombies@quokk.au · 26 pts · 246d
How much legal trouble would I get for kicking a CEO in the testicles? it feels like it would be worth it if I ever met NVIDIA's bosses.
Evil_Incarnate@sopuli.xyz · 19 pts · 246d
Depends, are you rich?
mangaskahn@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 245d
Or remarkably good-looking?
KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 245d
None if you don't get caught. They're not going to do a full investigation if you don't try to murder the guy. Also, look how badly the current FBI fumbled the investigation into Charlie Kirk's killer? into Brian Thompson's killer?
yakko@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 245d
It's crazy how much Brian Thompson isn't even a name in my head. If someone murders me, I only hope they're not so charismatic that when people try to remember me they just picture a beige balloon named John Lastname.
DrSleepless@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 246d
AI will do all the fun and creative things for you so you can get back to work
BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com · 18 pts · 246d
Great, another fun thing the LLM craze want to take from me. FFS.
mPony@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 245d
that and the polar ice caps
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 245d
I wouldn't mind playing games co-op with AI.
pogmommy@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 245d
Ive got incredible news for you
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 245d
Few games actually have that and even fewer have ones that play well.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 2 pts · 245d
So many games have companions tho. Most of the time, I don't want them but they are forced upon me. Such as in Wo Long or Skyrim.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 245d
Yeah, I'm talking about games where they're designed for humans to play together.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 2 pts · 245d
Well, I have found that It Takes Two really only takes two controllers and beat it all by myself with these two hands. 😤
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 244d
That sounds awful, but then again not as awful as dealing with my wife trying to aim
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 15 pts · 246d
Actually if they can use that to make good ai opponents for 4x games, it'd be pretty sweet
Naia@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 245d
Except you don't need a neural net to do this, nor would you really want one for it because it would be incredibly slow unless you use the GPU to run it which might be a bit busy running the actual game. It's like a "make game run worse" option.
In game AI can be pretty sophisticated even without the addition of neural nets which could be OK with determining strategy based on player action, but really isn't going to be good for the entire control.
This kind of thing is only useful as tech demo for playing platformers and the like with the same inputs a human player would, basically more like a bot.
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 245d
Given that it has been the weak point in almost all 4x games in the past 30 years, I'd be happy if they give anything novel a try
Naia@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 245d
I could see a way for it to work, but this tech certainly isn't it and you'd need to balance the size of the model for memory use and performance.
SuiXi3D@fedia.io · 14 pts · 246d
…why? What’s the point?
6nk06@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 246d
Soylent green I guess. No money, no fun, no job. You're free to die.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 245d
Beat Elon in PoE
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 4 pts · 245d
I don't need AI to do that unless I am actually playing against the dude he pays to play for him.
architect@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 241d
The bar is low i see.
riskable@programming.dev · 10 pts · 246d
FYI: Stuff like this is for automated testing, not "playing games for you" 🤣
Also, I won't consider it realistic until it can type out, "lol git gud scrub" after ganking someone who just spawned.
Dojan@pawb.social · 4 pts · 246d
Makes sense. Upscaling and video interpolation instead of optimisation. Image generation instead of artists. Now this instead of actual testing.
The 💩💩💩 gaming industry is going to somehow get even worse.
Miaou@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 246d
This seems like a very good use of the tech. Fuzzy testing is difficult to do, and it's all about scale
Dojan@pawb.social · 1 pts · 246d
This is all on the assumption it’ll work and be useful. The track record so far is underwhelming.
riskable@programming.dev · -3 pts · 246d
Good games are orthogonal to AI usage. It's possible to have a great game that was written with AI using AI-generated assets. Just as much as it's possible to have a shitty one.
If AI makes creating games easier, we're likely to see 1000 shitty games for every good one. But at the same time we're also likely to see successful games made by people who had great ideas but never had the capital or skills to bring them to life before.
I can't predict the future of AI but it's easy to imagine a state where everyone has the power to make a game for basically no cost. Good or bad, that's where we're heading.
If making great games doesn't require a shitton of capital, the ones who are most likely to suffer are the rich AAA game studios. Basically, the capitalists. Because when capital isn't necessary to get something done anymore, capital becomes less useful.
Effort builds skill but it does not build quality. You could put in a ton of effort and still fail or just make something terrible. What breeds success is iteration (and luck). Because AI makes iteration faster and easier, it's likely we're going to see a lot of great things created using it.
mech@feddit.org · 1 pts · 245d
The capitalists will control access to the AI and compute resources, which will be the means of production in this new world.
architect@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 241d
We have access to the models. They cant take it away from all of us. Regular people? Maybe.
riskable@programming.dev · 2 pts · 245d
I doubt that. New services that host the open models are cropping up all the time. They're like VPS hosting providers (in fact, existing VPS hosts will soon break out into that space too).
It's not like Big AI has some huge advantage over the open source models. In fact, for images they're a little bit behind!
The FOSS coding models are getting pretty fantastic and they get better all the time. It seems like once a month a new, free model comes out that eclipses the previous generation once a month.
architect@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 241d
What’s a bad game? Those Roblox mini games exist and are popular. Idle games exist…
realitista@lemmus.org · 10 pts · 246d
Finally I will get through my Steam queue!
gustofwind@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 246d
The ultimate conclusion to cheating in video games is literally just having the robot play them for you
Something is just wrong with their brains which allows them to derive pleasure from antisocial activity 🤷♀️
emax_gomax@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 245d
Bold to assume having an AI play the game for testing is actually useful. Given how buggy games release nowadays i genuinely wonder which companies still properly have play testers. An AI whose results you mostly ignore is pointless.
thatsTheCatch@lemmy.nz · 6 pts · 245d
I suspect it's not a lack of playtesters that's the problem, but harsh deadlines and crunch. That type of environment leads to tech debt to get things working fast, which leads to hard-to-manage code, which leads to bugs...
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 244d
ftfy
LiveLM@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 246d
Oh yeah? Go beat Talos Principle then.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 245d
I see what you did there.
Zzzt!
Kr4u7@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 246d
Botting just got a whole lot easier - now old bitcoin farmers can go back to currency farming in games. At least in game currency prices will drop.
IHeartBadCode@fedia.io · 4 pts · 246d
Mom, I want an aim bot!
But we have aim bots at home.
The aim bots at home.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 246d
Great,
And I’m guessing like all gen AI, it would be mediocre at best and never reach the top players.
Now all they need is a way to turn mediocre gameplay into money, surely that part would be easy
Also, I don’t think they could use it for testing as there could be plenty of false positive or negatives.
dukemirage@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 246d
It’s already been a few years, before the LLM boom, but a neural networked figured out how to play Super Mario Bros by simply looking at the RAM and it mastered the game.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 246d
Racing games too, especially single player races.
If conditions are the same every run, it will eventually find the mathematically fastest way. I saw a video about a guy doing it, and after thousands of runs the bot noticed a glitch if the car wasn't on four wheels allowing it to move insanely fast. Like grinding a rail in Tony Hawk, the bot would immediately do it, and run the entire course on the glitch.
That's not human intelligence tho, that's the same as when a slime mold can design a transportation network as effectively as we can.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 246d
But that’s cheating no? The challenge is playing the game using user input with all the delays and extra steps that can happen along the way.
Also, optimizing a neural network for just one narrow use case is not what’s being discussed here.
ML is very, very good at narrow use cases, same with other tools of automation going back a century, they are talking about generic all purpose ML
dukemirage@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 246d
Of course it‘s „cheating“, this was a fun research project that came to mind.
Zacryon@feddit.org · 2 pts · 245d
Apart from games, where this can also be used for more capabable and behaviourally more "interesting" NPCs (including computer opponents or teammates), the used techniques can be transferred to robotics. Quite a cool architecture.
chunes@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 243d
I could see this being useful for those with disabilities like muscular dystrophy. Maybe let the AI handle repetitive, input-heavy parts and take over the gameplay at key moments so as to minimize muscle pain.
friend_of_satan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 246d
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 245d
Ton of dead multiplayer games that don't have bots
Harvey656@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 245d
This might be a legitimate use case... maybe. Depends on if it can learn games similar enough to humans. Which i doubt. Might be better to just code bot mods but idk, ai-players would be kinda cool. How long before we have to guess if a player is human, cheating, or a bot though?
TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 246d
I guess you answered it yourself, for testing.