Red Onions (and every other not-red food that's called red) is older in the English language than the word "purple".
Purple is a relatively modern concept in English having first been used circa 900AD. Before that basically everything towards the magenta part of the spectrum was all just called red.
See also Orange, the colour is named after the fruit and not the other way round.
Cultures around the world divide the color spectrum up in wildly different ways, which really highlights the absurdity of "color" being a real, objective property. There's one culture (I forget which, somewhere in Africa) where all the "dark" variants of colors are called by the same name. Other cultures often combine texture and other properties into their words for colors.
The concept of purple is older than English, though. I guess when English chose to adopt it is the main question, but should be clarified that the term where "purple" derives from goes back to the ancient Romans, who recognized it as a distinct color used for royalty given the difficulty in obtaining it.
It does have me wondering exactly when red onions first arrived in the UK, or what the Romans may have called it (potentially before those dirty Britons got their hands on it).
I also know that, when boiled, they yield a very rich, red color. Could maybe be named "red" due to that? Some Orthodox Christians/eastern Europeans traditionally use red onions to dye eggs for Easter.
I was always curious about this! I’m bilingual and I always get mixed up because they’re actually called “purple onions” in Spanish. I always forget which language calls it which, but knowing this is definitely helpful!
The Latin and Greek speaking parts of the world probably had a word for purple by that point. Remember the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes who would evolve into the medieval Anglo-Saxons were from around modern continental Denmark to about the modern Hanover region. This area didn't really have the color purple all that much and frankly speaking Britain ain't much better on that front, probably why it took till around the viking age to get a word for it since that's when pan European trade started to pick up again to a large enough degree for purple dyes to start getting to Britain on a regular basis.
Black tea refers to the visible degree of oxidation of the tea leaves - yellow, white and green teas all do the same thing. Similarly, white grapes are called that because they produce white (clear) liquid (though it's clearly yellowish so they should really be called yellow grapes...).
Black tea refers to the visible degree of oxidation of the tea leaves
Makes sense
grapes are called that because they produce white (clear) liquid
Even if it produced indisputably white liquid. Why not call it after its own color while tea is named after the color of its processed leaves?
You'd expect tea which is thought of as a drink to be known for the color of the liquid, and grapes often eaten as is to be named after their color.
But it doesn't really matter, any of these could've been named after whichever color they were at any point of their making / preparation. It's not like there's a convention or something
To make the tea thing even better, in English when referring to Chinese black teas, they are called red tea instead... Because that's the color of the liquid.
That being said, if its label says red tea, its probably way higher quality than the tea bags you have at home.
You mean like how chamomile isn’t tea? Because I probably call chamomile broth “tea” 100% of the time. Tea for me is anything steeped in muslin in boiling or near boiling water that you might sweeten
AFAIK the thread was about green and black tea - and suddenly there was rooibos.
So I was more focused on the tea plant itself and the variations we get/make from it
What really breaks my brain is that the pigment responsible for this purple hue are called anthocyanins. It literally has a root-word for blue in the name, even though that's not the only color it can make.
If I pickle them in vinegar, they turn bright pink, if I alkalize them in baking soda, they turn blue, if I cook them slowly in butter they turn a deep brown color.
It's because it's a less distinct element from blue than red is to yellow. It's kinda like how someone can tell the difference between a heavy machine and a pistol but they may not be able to tell the difference between a rifle and a shotgun.
Color is in the eyeballs. The proteins in your eyes that react to different wavelengths of light produce the network of colors we see. Your brain processes the image but all the color signals are assigned by your eyes.
I believe there's even lens tech that can help alter colors so colorblind can differentiate the colors easier if the colorblindness falls into certain variants.
70 Comments
Denjin@feddit.uk · 114 pts · 261d
Red Onions (and every other not-red food that's called red) is older in the English language than the word "purple".
Purple is a relatively modern concept in English having first been used circa 900AD. Before that basically everything towards the magenta part of the spectrum was all just called red.
See also Orange, the colour is named after the fruit and not the other way round.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 34 pts · 261d
See also: ‘robin red breast’ to describe the European robin, which very clearly has an orange breast:
Zwiebel@feddit.org · 15 pts · 261d
Lil-red-throat in German
hakunawazo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 260d
-chen und -lein machen alle Dinge klein.
(It's called Rotkehlchen. Proverb: Suffixes -chen and -lein make all things small)Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works · 28 pts · 261d
And before that we have people looking at colours entirely differently, like Homer calling the sea the colour of red wine.
Which my Greek teacher would explain by saying "my pencil is the the same shade of yellow as your book is blue".
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 261d
Or perhaps Homer was colorblind?
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 260d
Cultures around the world divide the color spectrum up in wildly different ways, which really highlights the absurdity of "color" being a real, objective property. There's one culture (I forget which, somewhere in Africa) where all the "dark" variants of colors are called by the same name. Other cultures often combine texture and other properties into their words for colors.
thomasloven@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 261d
It’s the same reason why ”Violets are blue”.
Denixen@feddit.nu · 6 pts · 260d
Roses are red and violets are blue, You have been misled, for that isn't true
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 260d
Roses are red, but nobody cares, Waxed lightly weathered, cut copper stairs
kopasu22@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 261d
The concept of purple is older than English, though. I guess when English chose to adopt it is the main question, but should be clarified that the term where "purple" derives from goes back to the ancient Romans, who recognized it as a distinct color used for royalty given the difficulty in obtaining it.
It does have me wondering exactly when red onions first arrived in the UK, or what the Romans may have called it (potentially before those dirty Britons got their hands on it).
I also know that, when boiled, they yield a very rich, red color. Could maybe be named "red" due to that? Some Orthodox Christians/eastern Europeans traditionally use red onions to dye eggs for Easter.
undefined@lemmy.hogru.ch · 12 pts · 261d
I was always curious about this! I’m bilingual and I always get mixed up because they’re actually called “purple onions” in Spanish. I always forget which language calls it which, but knowing this is definitely helpful!
SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org · 10 pts · 261d
In Bangla, we call the color peyaji, which is basically "onion-y". It's also what we call onion fritters, and they're absolutely delicious.
Edit: Just remembered that we also use it as a slang for fucking around. Not sure where that came from lol.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 261d
Yum, onion fritters!
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 260d
Wasn't purple a "royal" colour back in Roman toga times? Maybe it was called something different?
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 260d
It was "purpura" in Latin. OP said purple is relatively modern in English.
jve@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 260d
It was. It was the royal color because it was famously hard and expensive to make purple dyes out of sea snails.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 260d
The Latin and Greek speaking parts of the world probably had a word for purple by that point. Remember the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes who would evolve into the medieval Anglo-Saxons were from around modern continental Denmark to about the modern Hanover region. This area didn't really have the color purple all that much and frankly speaking Britain ain't much better on that front, probably why it took till around the viking age to get a word for it since that's when pan European trade started to pick up again to a large enough degree for purple dyes to start getting to Britain on a regular basis.
Denjin@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 260d
Yes but not in English, which was my point
msage@programming.dev · 2 pts · 261d
Wow, thank you!
Now when people call me color-blind cause I don't care about color matching or their names, I can just say I'm very old fashioned!
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 259d
Look, man, I'm not concerned with what middle earth or Mordor or whatever can see, I'm here on the planet U S of A.
Limitless_screaming@kbin.earth · 27 pts · 261d
Red foxes are clearly orange. Black tea is clearly red. White grapes are clearly green.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 261d
Black tea refers to the visible degree of oxidation of the tea leaves - yellow, white and green teas all do the same thing. Similarly, white grapes are called that because they produce white (clear) liquid (though it's clearly yellowish so they should really be called yellow grapes...).
Limitless_screaming@kbin.earth · 8 pts · 261d
Makes sense
Even if it produced indisputably white liquid. Why not call it after its own color while tea is named after the color of its processed leaves?
You'd expect tea which is thought of as a drink to be known for the color of the liquid, and grapes often eaten as is to be named after their color.
But it doesn't really matter, any of these could've been named after whichever color they were at any point of their making / preparation. It's not like there's a convention or something
DarkSirrush@piefed.ca · 8 pts · 261d
To make the tea thing even better, in English when referring to Chinese black teas, they are called red tea instead... Because that's the color of the liquid.
That being said, if its label says red tea, its probably way higher quality than the tea bags you have at home.
idiomaddict@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 261d
Or it’s delicious, store brand rooibos
naeap@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 261d
But rooibos isn't tea - or did a joke woosh me?
idiomaddict@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 261d
You mean like how chamomile isn’t tea? Because I probably call chamomile broth “tea” 100% of the time. Tea for me is anything steeped in muslin in boiling or near boiling water that you might sweeten
naeap@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 260d
AFAIK the thread was about green and black tea - and suddenly there was rooibos.
So I was more focused on the tea plant itself and the variations we get/make from it
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 261d
I fuckin love rooibos, I don’t know what it is about it because I generally don’t care that much for tea.
idiomaddict@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 261d
I’m also not big on tea, but rooibos tastes like essence of baked goods to me
MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 260d
Read this roobois. Should call Australians that.
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub · 6 pts · 261d
A black box is orange. A red panda is brown. A great white is mostly grey.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 21 pts · 261d
No. They are maroon.
myster0n@feddit.nl · 34 pts · 261d
No need to insult them
ObviouslyNotBanana@piefed.world · 7 pts · 261d
Are you calling me a moron?!
MutilationWave@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 260d
And maroons are escaped slaves that set up their own communities in the Caribbean.
shittydwarf@piefed.social · 20 pts · 261d
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 261d
What really breaks my brain is that the pigment responsible for this purple hue are called anthocyanins. It literally has a root-word for blue in the name, even though that's not the only color it can make.
blackbelt352@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 261d
If I pickle them in vinegar, they turn bright pink, if I alkalize them in baking soda, they turn blue, if I cook them slowly in butter they turn a deep brown color.
worhui@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 261d
Red onion skin is part of kids science experiments about PH. I just did that experiment with my kids not long ago.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 260d
Pickled red onions are next fucking level. They are so goddamn good its kind of crazy
ceenote@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 261d
Grapes, too.
FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 261d
Green onions are green but not onions!
GladiusB@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 261d
Not with that attitude
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 260d
In Japan they're called blue onions - neither blue nor onions.
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 260d
Red onions are all RED!
I've never seen a red onion only purple but if I ever do see a red onion I guarantee it will not be purple.
Xanvial@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 261d
Yeah, my three years old kid really debating me about this. Insisting that it's purple onions. Can't really argue
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 260d
In Japan green onions are called "blue onions". I do not know why.
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 260d
Japanese used to have no distinction between blue and green
Overshoot2648@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 260d
Most people don't have the distinction between blue and cyan despite the fact that it is the same distance as red is from yellow. :/
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 260d
It's because it's a less distinct element from blue than red is to yellow. It's kinda like how someone can tell the difference between a heavy machine and a pistol but they may not be able to tell the difference between a rifle and a shotgun.
halvar@lemy.lol · 4 pts · 261d
In my language it's called a purple onion
and the we call white onions red
fakeman_pretendname@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 261d
Blue cheese is almost entirely creamy-offwhite coloured.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 3 pts · 261d
It at least has some parts that are a blueish green.
hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 260d
And pretty much everything orange is named red.
roserose56@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 260d
Maybe you all have color blindness.
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 260d
Leave it to colorblind people to name everything color-related.
tino@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
as a radical colourblind: colour is a construction of the mind. Colour names make no sense. The only thing that matters is contrast.
Fedizen@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
Color is in the eyeballs. The proteins in your eyes that react to different wavelengths of light produce the network of colors we see. Your brain processes the image but all the color signals are assigned by your eyes.
I believe there's even lens tech that can help alter colors so colorblind can differentiate the colors easier if the colorblindness falls into certain variants.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 261d
BURN HIM!!!
FranciscoLopez@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
Team ‘red onion is purple’ reporting for duty 🫡 ‘Red’ is just marketing—someone at Big Onion is lying to us.
Blackfeathr@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 257d
This is a bot
workerONE@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 261d
Really blew my mind when I found out that red onions are just ripe white onions.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 16 pts · 261d
That is not true?
Just like a Granny Smith's will never be a Fuji Apple. A Red Onion will never be a Yellow Onion.
Unless you're making a joke about peppers. Peppers are the same plant.
Hjalamanger@feddit.nu · 2 pts · 261d
WHAT!!
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 260d
You're thinking of bell peppers, not onions, they are distinct cultivars.
workerONE@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 260d
Shitposting is an artform
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 260d
Well ya got me, you want your hook back?
Tommelot@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 261d
They're in a red netting, obviously!