Yes, It’s Fascism | Until recently, I thought it a term best avoided. But now, the resemblances are too many and too strong to deny.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/america-fascism-trump-maga-ice/685751/?gift=-nX0lDFWvdf76KdYy1EoSVV48d7KbS2SHboWWQWF9wI
795 points · 138 comments · view on lemmy.world
138 Comments
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 195 pts · 221d
"I resisted calling it fascism until it was too late and people were dying at the hands of monsters."
Get fucked. It was fascism when it was George Floyd and it's fascism now. It's been a fascism white people were willing to ignore because it didn't impact them directly for fucking decades, if not a hundred years or more.
Great job joining us in reality.
kylie_kraft@lemmy.world · 103 pts · 221d
Yeah, this guy can fuck right off.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 37 pts · 221d
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
Maybe he's been in opposition of using the term because he's fucking fascist-lite himself. Fascist with half the calories.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · -7 pts · 221d
Calling liberals fascists is literally overusing the term to the point of meaninglessness.
Fascists are real and they're here, and they hate liberals and liberals hate them too. Calling liberals fascists is not going to help the situation.
And if you're going around making liberals bleed because you disagree with them, then you might wanna look in a mirror because you might be a fascist.
athatet@lemmy.zip · 29 pts · 221d
The phase comes from the original Black Panther Party.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · -9 pts · 221d
Doesn't change anything I said
athatet@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 221d
Just giving some historical context.
PyroNeurosis@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 221d
Do they hate fascists? They seem to be quite accommodating what with the slow rolling of justice for any infractions and the weakest of resistance to funding any 'security' concerns.
But no, calling them fascist wont help.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 221d
You seem to be confusing the democratic party leadership and a handful of traitors with every liberal.
architect@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 221d
Hard to tell the fucking difference. Nice words don’t matter only action matters.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 221d
Okay dude, go out there and take some concrete actions and when I see you in the headlines I'll know you made a difference.
But until then, stop blaming the people who literally voted against this to try to stop it from happening in the first place.
You were probably one of the idiots going around telling people not to vote, and if so you're as much to blame for this as anyone who voted for trump.
architect@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 221d
“Don’t overuse the term fascist you’ll make it meaningless and that makes you a fascist!”
Like you people can’t help but be hypocritical in the same damn sentence.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 221d
I didn't say "don't use the term fascism." If someone's a fascist, call them a fascist. And there absolutely are fascists.
But don't call people who aren't fascists, fascists, because that makes the the term meaningless. And liberals by definition are not fascists.
Focus on the actual fascists, the far-right and everyone enabling them. Don't call the opposition fascists just because they're ineffective, with minorities in both chambers of congress and the supreme court.
What makes you a fascist is advocating for making people bleed just for being liberals.
And you had to willfully butcher everything I said in order to pull such a distorted interpretation out of it so you could make your strawman. And guess what? That's what fascists do!
BiteSizedZeitGeist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 221d
I'm not sure if I've ever heard of Rauch before but this is Bari Weiss level of bullshit. Fuck opinion writers.
LillyPip@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 220d
This is infuriating.
We’ve been calling it fascism for at least 10 years because that’s what it’s been.
We were trying to get you fucks to wake up and stop it before it was too late, and now that you’re finally willing to acknowledge it, it’s too fucking late.
Thanks for ignoring us and enabling it. You can fuck all the way off.
Cruel@programming.dev · 3 pts · 221d
When was the US not fascism? Serious question.
gloktawasright@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 220d
Serious answer:
From wiki: “Fascism is characterized by support for a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.”
I’m not a historian or anything, but I would say that until trump we haven’t really had anyone you could call a dictator. And saying we had a strong regimentation of society and the economy seems like a stretch with the exception of wartime. You could make a good argument for ww2 era USA under FDR though that also came on the back of the new deal and a relatively progressive thrust in US politics (of course many groups of people were still oppressed and marginalized though), and possibly some parts of US involvement in Vietnam. But I think realistically there are better descriptions of the US government during those times.
This comment is intended not to discount the historic atrocities and abject failings of the US government, but rather to maintain the power of the word fascism and to assert that things are in fact different at this moment, even if they’ve been bad for a lot if people for a long time.
architect@thelemmy.club · 2 pts · 221d
I would say certain white people but they don’t consider me white so maybe that’s why I’ve been freaking out too.
PointlessProtestAgainstTheMachine@lemmy.org · 0 pts · 221d
How long until we stop complaining about fascism and actively talk about doing something about it—publicly?
athatet@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 221d
Talk about it in the back of coffee shops, not publicly. That’s how you get the Feds on you.
Impassionata@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 221d
the feds already have you if you post on lemmy, blusky, or mastodon
athatet@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 221d
And if you talk about what should actually happen then the Secret Service knocks on your door. Still best to do it in private.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 221d
I have neither the charisma nor the aim to be a priority for them. I'm interested in long-term direct action that can build something better, not just fighting and protesting. The internet should be decentralized immediately.
PointlessProtestAgainstTheMachine@lemmy.org · -13 pts · 221d
Lmfao. Worry about yourself.
athatet@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 221d
Only worrying about oneself is part of the reason we are in this mess. I am actually worried for a lot of people currently.
PointlessProtestAgainstTheMachine@lemmy.org · -13 pts · 221d
I’m worried about the entire country. You seem to want to let fascism happen. Which is why you try to crush anyone talking out against the government lmfao.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 221d
You're a fucking idiot. If everyone willing to take direct action talks about it publicly, then before long there won't be anyone left to take action.
The French Resistance didn't exactly stand in the middle of a public square telling everyone "We're the french resistance."
athatet@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 221d
You aren’t doing that tho?
PointlessProtestAgainstTheMachine@lemmy.org · -6 pts · 221d
You support Trump.
daannii@lemmy.world · 112 pts · 221d
It was fascism this time 12 months ago when Trump had women and people of colors plaques and images covered at national museums and at nasa.
When they banned words from research. Like: women. Female. Bias, transgender, equality. Privilege.
When they prosecuted women as murderers for having a safe first trimester termination of pregnancy.
When they started demanding a woman must die before any medical procedures would be performed that could harm a fetus, even if that fetus was dead or non viable.
When they removed black veterans stories from the VA websites and other government websites.
When they changed the dod to the department of war.
My gawd. This all started a year ago. It was fascism then.
Hamartia@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 221d
It was clearly fascism when Project 2025 was leaked.
FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca · 38 pts · 221d
It wasn't leaked. The people who made it made a website and publicly posted it. They announced their fascist agenda and still people ignored it
Hamartia@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 221d
Shocked. I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.
daannii@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 221d
ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com · 24 pts · 221d
Maybe the mainstream will finally reach consensus on the label just as the last reporters are being onboarded at gunpoint to concentration camp trains.
Lasherz12@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 221d
Lots of corporations in Germany and more broadly supported the Nazis right up until there was significant power mounted in opposition to Hitler. Our media is captured by these ghouls, so I don't honestly know how long it will go. Maybe until the power shifts.
Kirp123@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 221d
Fascism is profitable for corporations, of course they like it. German companies had literal slave labor to work for them, that's so much savings on labor costs.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 221d
If Trump manages to jack up inflation a few more tens of percent, the federal minimum wage may as well be slave wages.
dantheclamman@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 221d
It was fascism in 2016 when he promised to ban people from entering the US based on religion.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 221d
Sure, all of that is true.
Why would you (not you, daannii, the general 'you') want to alienate an ally by rubbing that in their face?
You get a little emotional boost by feeling self-righteous in exchange for helping splinter the enemies of Fascism.
Welcome converts, don't spit on them.
xenomor@lemmy.world · 70 pts · 221d
I’d like to take this opportunity to express the profoundly tragic failure of Democrats to mount any kind of meaningful opposition to this fascist project, that has been underway since at least the Reagan administration.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 221d
Also the fact that Donny got off for January 6th still blows my fucking mind.
Typhoon@lemmy.ca · 19 pts · 221d
That's because they're fine with fascism too. This isn't a fight between parties. It's a fight between the rich owner class and everyone else.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 221d
They just voted to fund ICE. Again.
Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 221d
They're not failing at anything. A significant amount of them are just quietly complicit.
architect@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 221d
Actually Clinton joined in with them and started them on their process of becoming controlled opposition.
Like Bill Clinton and Trump were very close friends.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 220d
The red and blue party work as one and have been ruling in usa for a century
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 52 pts · 221d
I’m glad you got there eventually. Keep listening closely to the people who told you this years ago, they are clearly more perceptive than you.
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 221d
It was literally fucking YEARS of me dealing with variations of "he's not a fascist! He's just an impotent wannabe dictator, we'll be fine. You're overreacting!" from acquaintances and family. Not friends, I don't have friends that stupid.
I will stand arm in arm with every person who mocked me for "being a worrier", not just because it's the only way out of this, but because it's the best way, maybe the only way, to build a better future.
With that having been said, I hope each and every one of them gets a terrible case of genital lice at some point in their lives.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 221d
An impotent wannabe dictator is a fascist lmaoooo. That is some wild level of cope. “ he is not a fascist. He is just a fascist light. It will be fine.”
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 221d
Once we give the impotent wanna be dictator, a little more power it will be fine! If I didn’t know people, I wouldn’t think this was real
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 220d
I know! It's like "She's not an abuser. She hits me when she's frustrated, but it's not too hard and doesn't usually leave a bruise. It's just rough housing." This actually was said to me last week. Mind fucking blown.
GMac@feddit.org · 5 pts · 221d
This is the best response.
architect@thelemmy.club · 41 pts · 221d
Oh well now that YOU say it, king of the obvious, now we are allowed.
You know, Start by saying you’re fucking sorry for being an idiot. Because that’s what you’re actually reporting.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 221d
How can I upvote this comment more than once?
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com · 8 pts · 221d
I am so upset by articles like this, but the saddest part is that they're needed. Months ago a professor who studies fascism fled the country due to rising fascism. There were articles about it. I sent them to family and friends in an attempt to warn them about what was coming. Some did listen, but there are so many people we will have to pick up along the way and "meet where they're at". I wish all articles like this were "I'm a huge idiot and was horribly wrong and will devote myself to fixing this now", but in reality that helps no one. I can keep sending out articles like this and since it's not "wow! I and by extension you were a dumb idiot" people may feel like maybe realizing it now is smart and can have their minds changed. I would appreciate a better note at the end, once the reader may be swayed, that was about what to do going forward and how to learn to listen, but it is what it is.
iridebikes@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 220d
Yay, The Atlantic gave us permission!
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 220d
I've lived my entire life in fear of being called uncivil.
Free at last, free at last.
otacon239@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 221d
I wonder which of the 3000 things over the past decade changed their minds.
Eldritch@piefed.world · 8 pts · 221d
3000 things? Using the short list? 😆
LadyMeow@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 221d
Yeah, printer ran out of ink, so we could only get the top 3k; HP promised new ink is in the mail.
idiomaddict@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 221d
Well that’s alright then. I almost thought the Atlantic was becoming less useless for a second there
Hypnotoad_@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 221d
"I declare it"
Fucking ridiculous. "Hitler is a Nazi, but Germany isnt Nazi!"
If they keep plugging their ears it can't be true!
Danquebec@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 220d
When?
merdaverse@lemmy.zip · 34 pts · 221d
Peak The Atlantic article
CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 221d
I'm pretty sure it was The Atlantic where I saw an article sanewashing Donvict being so weirdly thirsty for Greenland.
I mean....what the fuck?
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 31 pts · 221d
Yes, we know.
See, everyone knows that fascism is a bad thing. That has been taught in every school since the end of WW2.
It's just a shame that most people never bothered to look up what fascism actually is, and it can be something your guys do as well.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 221d
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 221d
Who’s that kgb guy that runs Russia loves trump and had been accused of interfering with international elections. Has a bigger army of Internet bots than the army he fields?
ameancow@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 221d
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 211d
Well said, couldn’t agree more!
BanMe@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 221d
Fascism is bad, communism is bad, socialism is bad. Leftists have successfully been labeled socialists and communists, why would the other side care about being labeled fascists anymore? They're just words, meaningless abstractions now.
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 221d
Right, but if you say to a Leftist "You are a socialist!" they'll say "Yes, that's correct".
The MAGA hats aren't owning the word fascism. They don't know what it is. They know it's bad. It's something that happened in WW2. It's something others do.
I'd link Michael Rosen's "I Sometimes Fear" poem, but this administration did walk in saying exactly that, and half the people still didn't connect the dots.
iridebikes@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 220d
The sad and dangerous thing is that many are actually starting to come around to the idea that fascism is good. They have spent years denying that Trump is a fascist and are now fully embracing it.
Allero@lemmy.today · 26 pts · 221d
I feel like this debate over whether it's fascism or not misses a big point:
It's an oppressive nationalist state with practically unchecked presidential power. It is responsible for numerous war crimes. It instates hardline policies targeting everyday Americans. It puts people in detention camps. It is fueled by exceptionalism on all levels, from foreign policy to religion. And at the same time, it doesn't provide for its people, cutting all forms of social support.
It also erodes democratic institutions in an attempt to cement itself, so that other powers couldn't change course.
You can call it fascism. You can call it authoritarianism. What matters is that America is turned into an angry shithole hostile to both others and it's own people. Isn't that a reason good enough to stand strongly against it? Why do people wait for a "fascist" label, like it's some sort of red cloth, and would it change much if tomorrow Trump would plead allegiance to Hitler?
treesapx@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 221d
America needs a New Deal for both wealth inequality and authoritarianism.
yakko@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 221d
America just needs to stop being America imo. Countries in general should be smaller and not so powerful.
baller_w@lemmy.zip · 26 pts · 221d
nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 221d
Impassionata@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 221d
their silence today with the atlantic coming forward is extremely embarrassing, along with the nytimes
ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 221d
Only thing I will give NYT credit for is the way they recently put together a bunch of the Renee Good videos, determined they showed (what the rest of us already knew) that the murderer was not in front of the car along with a visual explainer, and put it on the front page. That got the unvarnished visual evidence in front of a lot of people that would otherwise have not seen it.
But that's just one thing, and they've been sanewashing for years. Beyond that, both the WSJ and the NYT is a big part of the reason we're here. Maybe if they hadn't worked so hard at bothsidesing insanity and lies they would not have lent such a helping hand to the speedrun into fascism that was 47ths first year.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 220d
Fascism is a big word with a lot of weight to it.
The more you get into politics and the more you debate with people across the aisle, the more you realize you have to be careful what words you use, so as not to lose credibility.
That being said.......this is fascism. Period.
It's happening. It's happening now. It's happening here. It's not debatable anymore.
DirtyAnCom@discuss.online · 5 pts · 220d
Well, the US has arguably always been fascist. Essentially fascism is copratist control of the economy and a merger of corporations and state. Of course corporations as entities have evolved after the US's conception, but we've never been a democracy of the people, with only wealthy white business owners calling the shots.
We stole the land with genocide and apartheid, then built it on the backs of slaves. The house the president lives in was even built by slaves. When we "abolished" slavery, we had to make sure that we had a way out through incarceration. Guess which nation incarcerates more citizens than any other nation?
Not only that, but the US was a major inspiration for both Hitler and Mousolini.
And not to mention how we are constantly starting wars and instability around the world for our oligarch's own benefit. And that out biggest enterprise is weaponry and war technology.
The US is and has always been a fascist nation.
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space · 18 pts · 221d
“Oh gee wiz, turns out he’s doing the dictator thing like he said he would”
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 5 pts · 221d
“President Trump was clearly making a joke.” - Enablers like the media, “centrist Democrats”, and others
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 221d
So you literally ignored hitlers plot playing out until it was to late, and now it’s okay to call them hurtful name. Another banger from the Atlantic.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 220d
You guys are so screwed, I left Reddit cause of all the censorship and siding with the government.
I’ve had comment removed from this community for being incendiary, for saying Trump and ICE agents need to feel the force of the second amendment.
You guys are not even allowed to discuss anything further than a useless peaceful protest, or you get banned or shut down and silenced.
Even regular folk who mod on Lemmy are tripping over themselves to stop us from actually doing anything
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 220d
.world communities are particularly squeamish about not toeing the corpo line.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 220d
No sub, on Lemmy or Reddit, is safe from power tripping mods. I'm currently dealing with a Lemmy mod on a few other Lemmy subs that's abusing his mod powers.
The bottom line is the other mods either need to step in and reign the bad mods in or remove them, or their sub dies. Seen it on Reddit plenty of times. But I've also seen Reddit mods that successfully removed their bad actors and then everything was fine. So it could go either way.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 220d
Everyone who isn't actively complicit is terrified of standing up and therefore standing out. It's a rational response and one we've been struggling with since the era of modern policing.
I see a lot of empty gestures towards "someone should do something". I see books like "How to Blow Up A Pipeline" and movies like "One Battle After Another" exemplify and valorize domestic insurrection. It isn't as though there's some total censorship. And we have plenty of nominal organs of resistance - from charity groups to gun clubs to local political caucuses - that could "do something" if they knew what exactly it was they were trying to do.
But relatively few people want to risk their lives and livelihoods to take a turn at being Revolutionaries. We don't have a revolutionary movement. We have a random collection of martyrs piling up in the street - people who did not wake up that morning and declare they were going to die for their cause, but were just swept up in the violence for the most token forms of resistance.
Lemmy mods don't have to try particularly hard to squelch something that isn't emergent.
DougHolland@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 220d
Some things are best discussed privately.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 221d
Thinking it a term best avoided for reasons of decorum is part of what got us here.
CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 221d
Well, welcome to the party, I guess.
aesthelete@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 221d
Even if, as I put it in my other reply to a similarly limp dicked Atlantic article, you're so late to the party that the caterers that were hired for it were deported by ICE months ago.
dantheclamman@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 221d
Stuff like this is why I unsubscribed. Just respectability politics.
otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 221d
And too late to matter. Thanks.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 220d
The Atlantic is trash. Lib bullshit late to the party and faking it. These are the same people who enable fascism. Not to mention the zios...
CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 221d
I'm reminded of that smarmy dickhead that wrote "Liberal Fascism" that was about mansplaining how it was really the liberals that were the fascists.
Every conservative spent a lot of time telling me I simply must read this book.
Then there was Tucker, who said he'd have to blame liberals if he were to later support fascism because, really, what choice did he have? People kept calling him a fascist, the poor dear! And insisting that people Tucker doesn't value have rights!
WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 221d
Yeah, that’s fucked. Liberals aren’t fascist, they’re just fascist enablers.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net · 9 pts · 221d
So now he will realize he doesn't know shit and shut up, right?
Right?
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 221d
The Atlantic is the worst
commie_rogers@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 221d
Holy shit is this author incompetent.
Trump himself may be a pure "patrimonialist". But to act like the rest of the American ruling class aren't textbook corporatist fascists defies credulity.
What a fucking idiot. People like this can't be trusted with a pen, much less a goddamned ballot.
AshMan85@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 221d
And because you didnt have the spine to say when it could have made a difference, we are here.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 221d
Jonathan Rauch is holding out on the one thing we want to see: the websites of these left-leaning types, because they're the ones whose voices we should be hearing and promoting.
untorquer@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 220d
LMAO they're calling people fascists for acting like a fascist 🤷 not sure how that makes it meaningless.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 220d
Now it's fascism even for idiots to see
pigup@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 221d
Minimac@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 220d
Donald Trump is a complete scumbag.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 221d
It's an old man's anger and need to be worshipped that turned into fascism.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 220d
Fascism brought to you by full blown dementia and criminal behavior. Wheeee!
CircaV@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 221d
Worst “hair”/toupee/failed transplant/hairspray/hair gel mess ever. JFC.
DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 220d
We need more community defense classes now more than ever. Seriously!
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 221d
I think this 'attack them for being dumb' angle is wrong and damaging.
Is your ego being salved by metaphorically spitting on someone and telling them that you were smarter than them and they should have listened to you sooner? Is that more important than having allies to defeat Fascism?
Every time I see someone on the right who speaks up about changing their views, they're buried under down votes and toxic comments.
Nobody benefits from us allowing these toxic people to alienate people who are coming over to our side.
Yes, you were right first, congrats we'll give you a big gold star right after the trials. Until then, stop shooting allies because you want to feel superior.
treesapx@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 221d
I think it's telling that you're getting down votes without response. Your question is simple: What do we have to gain by turning away potential allies other than massaging our egos?
It's a good question.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 221d
What do, whoever is operating these toxic accounts, have to gain by turning away our potential allies?
To me, the people who are willing to alienate allies are in the same group as the ones pushing fear, uncertainty, doubt and division while encouraging violence.
I can't know who they are or why they are saying what they are saying but the effect of their message creates a beneficial outcome for our opposition.
Pick a random one of these posters to engage in a conversation to change their mind and you will often find the same toxic behaviors, bad faith arguments, red herrings, strawman arguments. It's like they're all reading from the same encyclopedia of bad faith rhetoric.
architect@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 221d
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 220d
Exhibit A
DougHolland@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 221d
In a position commanding a wide public audience, Jonathan Rauch has spent years speaking against us and mocking us. Today, he's had an epiphany and figured out he's been well-paid to be wrong. That's cool. "Welcome to the fight. This time I know our side will win," and all that.
I'm not going to waste any effort kicking him today, but I'm also not shocked, not scolding anyone who doesn't welcome Jonathan Rauch with a bouquet of flowers and wet kisses. Anyway, in five days or five minutes he'll decide we're wrong again. Shrug.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 220d
Yeah, you're right there will be a lot of fair weather supporters who are only switching sides because the wind blew our way. Nor do I think we should coddle these people.
My point is that: if you don't have something constructive to say then at least be silent. There is ZERO advantage (outside of soothing their ego) for a person who supports this cause to actively attack people who are coming around to see how bad this situation has become.
The net result of this kind of tactic is to create division among allies. This kind of behavior isn't something that benefits us and should be actively discouraged.
I'm not saying 'be nice or they'll go back to fascism' as you can already see the troll comments (reading from that exact same encyclopedia of toxic rhetoric). I'm saying that this kind of behavior cuts off these new anti-fascists from being able to support the movement, dividing the enemies of fascism.
As I said, go try to engage some of these people in conversation to change their mind. Very often you'll find they have zero interest in having a good-faith discussion, and will constantly be deploying all manner of fallacy as a smoke screen. These people are not allies, they are agitators and, even if they are real American Human People then they are ideologically aligned with the agitators.
DougHolland@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 220d
Ha — how did you get to know my family so well? I'm not interested in conversation with people who aren't interested in conversation, so I no longer engage — unless they say something stupid or fascist in my presence.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 220d
I live in a rural area of a red state so I have to deal with MAGA people, family and clients, constantly.
architect@thelemmy.club · 0 pts · 221d
I don’t need my ego salved and yes, i handle being called all sorts of names as a slight public figure and i don’t have a job important at all compared to a journalist. Knock this shit off. The fully grown professional man doesn’t need his ass patted because he might turn to fascism if not.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 219d
Some people are slower on the uptake than others.
Sunflier@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 220d
Remember when we were the good guys?
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 220d
I remember when Americans could still believe they were the good guys.
And I know there are lots of good Americans. I'm talking about believing their country is a force for good.
pogt@lemmy.wtf · 3 pts · 220d
Hard agree. We were claiming the moral high ground pushing democracy and freedom narratives. And by pushing I mean fighter jets and regime changes.
Sunflier@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 220d
I meant WWII and Union v. Confederacy times. I mean, Sherman's March to the sea was a joyous event.
DirtyAnCom@discuss.online · 1 pts · 220d