Undeveloped societies can be like that. It's often places that don't have many rights for the citizens and are worse off in wealth then the pre French Revolution France. Basically peasants with smart phones given this day and age.
America has an employment policy called "at-will" which grants employees and employers the right to terminate employment at any time for any "legal" reason. (This can be abused and skewed in favor of the employer)
Which started and was pushed as an anti-union thing, much like ‘right to work’ which is a state-wide rule that says you can work somewhere with a union without joining said union - which increases number of workers for less pay, weakens the union itself via lost dues and bargaining leverage, and encourages rhetoric against organized collective bargaining.
Hey, hey, we have paid sick days. Some places. It's just they give us about 5 days per year and after that we have to dip into our PTO. Which we get maybe 2 weeks of per year. Because we are so much better and more free than those European commies!
Well then the company has no proof you were actually sick, and next thing you know you have a meeting with HR and your supervisor asking about where you currently are in all your work. Unpaid is not automatically excused
A part of my salary is determined by the number of hours i bill my customer, so a sick day could easily mean that I lose somewhere in the range of $100 - $200. And I don't even live in the USA.
I had my first real sickness for time off since I moved to Germany. I had a call with a doctor, they pushed a sick note into the digital health system, and my company noted it as paid time off.
Modern civilization in a developed nation rocks.
Now if we could just get the paperwork to die down a bit... Oh, and find a way to get the trains on time!
I kept seeing discussions about the way things generally work in Europe, the rights people have, and the cultural appreciation for people's health and I finally said "fuck it! Let's move to Europe". I'd been visiting for decades off and on, so we made it permanent.
It only took three years of applying for jobs, saving, and finally getting all of our family needs in order, but we did it. If you can, give it a look.
If there's nothing else, Germany can complain about Deutsche Bahn! I have a long commute to work (my employer ist sehr schlect in some ways), so I've spent many months playing "will it, won't it" on RE train delays. I even had one vanish on the app after it claimed to pass through my station. Geistbahn!
The dumb part is that I started visiting Germany back in 1995. The trains ran much better. Nich so viel Störungen oder unregelmaßig dingen. Good memories only cover over so many cracks, though.
It'll only take about 20 years of big investment to rebuild the train network after so many decades of underinvestment by conservative governments. No worries, any day now.
NZ: We're legally entitled to 10 days paid sick leave. If you're out for less than 3 consecutive days you can be asked for a medical certificate but your employer must pay for it. Even then I've never been asked for a medical cert.
this is an American problem I'm guessing
ETA: We've also got huge brain drain problems thanks to the 3 ring circus govt atm. So we could use a little immigration
I'm curious what that looks like in practice. I've heard about places that offer "unlimited sick leave" but really in practice that means that you're basically scrutinized every single time you take it, and people end up too scared to use it because they don't want to be seen as abusing the system. At least with a set amount, you're only really looked at funny if you go over. (or if you take it all at once, but then you need a medical cert)
So if you have a cold, and just need a single day, do need to produce a medical cert? What about culture-wise, do people look at you funny in that case?
Depends on your employer. Typically you call in sick if you feel sick. If it has been more than 3 days you get a doctors note. Upto a couple of weeks at which point health insurance pays for your wage.
You can be sick for months. The only weird thing is that you still earn vacation days while sick but cannot take them as you are sick.
In belgium we used to have 3 days of no-doctor-note sick leave for single days, but they were afraid of people taking it as an extra vacation day so it's been reduced to 2 now.
Sick leave with note is just errr not limited afaik though the social system does take over from your employer in terms of paying you for prolonged sickness.
The thing is that it was shown that those no-doctor-note days actually reduced the amount of sick days, even when used for things other than sickness.
Because if you drank too much the day before and can't come into work because of a hangover. You only need 1 day to recover. But if you need to get a sick note anyway, you might as well get one for an entire week.
I actually did this during fucking Corona, and I still do it often, literally until they drive me away, because I'm that afraid of being accused of dodging work.
I did the same. They are assholes that assume you’re lying. During Covid they refused to see you at the urgent care if you had a fever. How the hell am I gonna get a note if I can’t be seen. I’m not paying 10k for a note from the ER.
Then they get mad like why would you come in if you’re sick. BROTHER YOU MADE ME COME IN.
Unfortunately they won't see the consequences either because everyone will get sick and keep coming in, when the owner(s) can just dip out and take a personal day.
It dips when you're sick, it will dip further when half of a department is sick. It's better to protect everybody else and take a hit for a day or two than spend weeks with people passing around an illness back and forth with reduced productivity.
I once worked at a place that offered three vacation days per year. The only catch was, to use your paid days you had to work a separate shift for each day you took off. So ultimately if you wanted to have 3 days off, the week before and the week after you might not get a day off because of the extra shifts you had to work. Just how is that taking time for yourself again?
The argentinian work law is being treated today. A "representative"* from one of the poorest provinces we have said something on the lines of "sick days are paid 50%, because the guilt shared"
Guilt for people getting sick at work/because of work, either from co-workers who must be at work, or from kids who are around other kids that must be in school sick because their parents must be at work, or some variation on forced participation in institutions when unwell which prevents taking care of yourself and stopping chains of transmission?
Me, watching you be a little bitch while I slash the manager's tires, put sugar in their gas tank, and [redacted], before going back home to crawl back in bed, feeling refreshed knowing that I made a positive difference today: 😊
59 Comments
Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca · 131 pts · 193d
If it’s unpaid, not a chance I am getting a doctors note. Although, what kind of dystopian country doesn’t have paid sick days?
azimir@lemmy.ml · 90 pts · 193d
Undeveloped societies can be like that. It's often places that don't have many rights for the citizens and are worse off in wealth then the pre French Revolution France. Basically peasants with smart phones given this day and age.
Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca · 99 pts · 193d
So, Americans.
Soulphite@reddthat.com · 45 pts · 193d
America has an employment policy called "at-will" which grants employees and employers the right to terminate employment at any time for any "legal" reason. (This can be abused and skewed in favor of the employer)
EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 193d
Which started and was pushed as an anti-union thing, much like ‘right to work’ which is a state-wide rule that says you can work somewhere with a union without joining said union - which increases number of workers for less pay, weakens the union itself via lost dues and bargaining leverage, and encourages rhetoric against organized collective bargaining.
Dojan@pawb.social · 25 pts · 193d
I’ve never understood any worker defending this. It’s disgusting.
2hundredpancakes@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 193d
Literal decades of propaganda and scapegoating got us here... I don't know how we are supposed to find our way back to reason
2hundredpancakes@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 193d
Hey, hey, we have paid sick days. Some places. It's just they give us about 5 days per year and after that we have to dip into our PTO. Which we get maybe 2 weeks of per year. Because we are so much better and more free than those European commies!
... I hate it here
azimir@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 193d
Bingo! Yeah, it's bad there.
LMurch@thelemmy.club · 17 pts · 193d
🙋🇺🇸
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 193d
Take a guess, you've got three letters…
Hazmatastic@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 193d
Well then the company has no proof you were actually sick, and next thing you know you have a meeting with HR and your supervisor asking about where you currently are in all your work. Unpaid is not automatically excused
OddMinus1@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 193d
A part of my salary is determined by the number of hours i bill my customer, so a sick day could easily mean that I lose somewhere in the range of $100 - $200. And I don't even live in the USA.
sparkles@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 193d
azimir@lemmy.ml · 64 pts · 193d
I had my first real sickness for time off since I moved to Germany. I had a call with a doctor, they pushed a sick note into the digital health system, and my company noted it as paid time off.
Modern civilization in a developed nation rocks.
Now if we could just get the paperwork to die down a bit... Oh, and find a way to get the trains on time!
LMurch@thelemmy.club · 28 pts · 193d
Me, as someone living in the US, reading this, thinking you are living in the Jetsons timeline 😳
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 193d
azimir@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 193d
I kept seeing discussions about the way things generally work in Europe, the rights people have, and the cultural appreciation for people's health and I finally said "fuck it! Let's move to Europe". I'd been visiting for decades off and on, so we made it permanent.
It only took three years of applying for jobs, saving, and finally getting all of our family needs in order, but we did it. If you can, give it a look.
lmuel@sopuli.xyz · 18 pts · 193d
I was gonna make fun of you for calling Germany a modern, civilised and developed country… but you saved yourself in the 2nd half :D
Sent while waiting for a delayed S-Bahn
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 193d
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 193d
What ideal nation would that be?
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 193d
probablymissing@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 191d
a place with good trains
CluckN@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 193d
Israel
Datorie@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 192d
Yeah, us being hardstuck in the 1980s is apparently still being better than other countries returning to the 1930s…
lmuel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 191d
That much is true, I guess
azimir@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 193d
If there's nothing else, Germany can complain about Deutsche Bahn! I have a long commute to work (my employer ist sehr schlect in some ways), so I've spent many months playing "will it, won't it" on RE train delays. I even had one vanish on the app after it claimed to pass through my station. Geistbahn!
The dumb part is that I started visiting Germany back in 1995. The trains ran much better. Nich so viel Störungen oder unregelmaßig dingen. Good memories only cover over so many cracks, though.
It'll only take about 20 years of big investment to rebuild the train network after so many decades of underinvestment by conservative governments. No worries, any day now.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 193d
Ich hoffe, Sie haben ihren Müll ordentlich getrennt! Außerdem ist jetzt Ruhezeit, also bitte leise pfostieren!
azimir@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 193d
Mülltrennung ist seht wichtig! Wir wissen das, aber die Gelbetonne ist komisch.
Unsere Wohnung hat kein nachbar jetzt. Es ist ein neues bau, und die Vermieter ist Meiter suchen. Ruhezeit ist sind die besten teil von Deutschland!
Delphia@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 193d
Also I claim the doctors visit as a work expense because in order to get paid I need one :) its a condition of my employment.
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub · 2 pts · 193d
That's Switzerland.
azimir@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 193d
Switzerland doesn't play when it comes to trains:
https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/germany-news/sbb-cuts-deutsche-bahn-trains-switzerland-over-chronic-delays
Kraiden@piefed.social · 33 pts · 193d
NZ: We're legally entitled to 10 days paid sick leave. If you're out for less than 3 consecutive days you can be asked for a medical certificate but your employer must pay for it. Even then I've never been asked for a medical cert.
this is an American problem I'm guessing
ETA: We've also got huge brain drain problems thanks to the 3 ring circus govt atm. So we could use a little immigration
Taleya@aussie.zone · 10 pts · 193d
Aussie here, paid sick leave but i've had employers ask for a certificate
I've never given them one. I'm a fucking adult you're employing
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 193d
Exactly right. This isn't elementary school. I'd hand them an obvious forgery signed "Barney Piccolo's Mother."
Gladaed@feddit.org · 4 pts · 192d
That's hella sketch.
You are entitled to an arbitrary number of sick days here.
Kraiden@piefed.social · 1 pts · 192d
Where's here if you don't mind me asking?
Gladaed@feddit.org · 3 pts · 192d
Feddit.org is the German speaking instance.
Kraiden@piefed.social · 1 pts · 192d
I'm curious what that looks like in practice. I've heard about places that offer "unlimited sick leave" but really in practice that means that you're basically scrutinized every single time you take it, and people end up too scared to use it because they don't want to be seen as abusing the system. At least with a set amount, you're only really looked at funny if you go over. (or if you take it all at once, but then you need a medical cert)
So if you have a cold, and just need a single day, do need to produce a medical cert? What about culture-wise, do people look at you funny in that case?
Gladaed@feddit.org · 2 pts · 192d
Depends on your employer. Typically you call in sick if you feel sick. If it has been more than 3 days you get a doctors note. Upto a couple of weeks at which point health insurance pays for your wage.
You can be sick for months. The only weird thing is that you still earn vacation days while sick but cannot take them as you are sick.
Kraiden@piefed.social · 1 pts · 192d
Ok, ye! That sounds like a better system! I mean it's essentially the same, but our "couple of weeks" is cumulative, which is worse
volvoxvsmarla@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 193d
Sorry but still not good enough. I don't plan out when I am going to be sick in the coming year or how many days it'll take me.
Kraiden@piefed.social · 2 pts · 193d
At that point ACC would kick in. I think it's up to 80% of your pre illness income, and there are probably other benefits I don't know about
Kage520@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 193d
Meanwhile, I got written up for using more than 4 days in a year
Fiery@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 193d
In belgium we used to have 3 days of no-doctor-note sick leave for single days, but they were afraid of people taking it as an extra vacation day so it's been reduced to 2 now.
Sick leave with note is just errr not limited afaik though the social system does take over from your employer in terms of paying you for prolonged sickness.
Honytawk@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 193d
The thing is that it was shown that those no-doctor-note days actually reduced the amount of sick days, even when used for things other than sickness.
Because if you drank too much the day before and can't come into work because of a hangover. You only need 1 day to recover. But if you need to get a sick note anyway, you might as well get one for an entire week.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 193d
After 15 days, the government has to pay instead, so long as you can prove you are sick.
If you are un(lucky), you can basically be on permanent sick leave here.
Asafum@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 193d
My coworker with sick days: I don't want to waste them, I want to go on a month vacation so I'm coming in sick and getting you all sick.
Diddlydee@feddit.uk · 14 pts · 193d
Meanwhile in countries where you aren't beholden to your employer and health insurance, being paid when sick is just standard.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 193d
I actually did this during fucking Corona, and I still do it often, literally until they drive me away, because I'm that afraid of being accused of dodging work.
They brought it on themselves, I suppose.
Pacattack57@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 193d
I did the same. They are assholes that assume you’re lying. During Covid they refused to see you at the urgent care if you had a fever. How the hell am I gonna get a note if I can’t be seen. I’m not paying 10k for a note from the ER.
Then they get mad like why would you come in if you’re sick. BROTHER YOU MADE ME COME IN.
Creegz@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 193d
Unfortunately they won't see the consequences either because everyone will get sick and keep coming in, when the owner(s) can just dip out and take a personal day.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 193d
We are a small company. Productivity absolutely dips.
Creegz@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 193d
It dips when you're sick, it will dip further when half of a department is sick. It's better to protect everybody else and take a hit for a day or two than spend weeks with people passing around an illness back and forth with reduced productivity.
Duranie@leminal.space · 5 pts · 193d
I once worked at a place that offered three vacation days per year. The only catch was, to use your paid days you had to work a separate shift for each day you took off. So ultimately if you wanted to have 3 days off, the week before and the week after you might not get a day off because of the extra shifts you had to work. Just how is that taking time for yourself again?
itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 193d
I have to use my PTO for sick days and that shit just ain't happening.
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 193d
The argentinian work law is being treated today. A "representative"* from one of the poorest provinces we have said something on the lines of "sick days are paid 50%, because the guilt shared"
Guilt? Guilt of what?
No_Eponym@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 193d
Guilt for people getting sick at work/because of work, either from co-workers who must be at work, or from kids who are around other kids that must be in school sick because their parents must be at work, or some variation on forced participation in institutions when unwell which prevents taking care of yourself and stopping chains of transmission?
OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 192d
Unpaid sick days? Sucks to live wherever that is
Nugscree@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 191d
Must be hell on earth to live in country that does not have paid sick days.
m3t00@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 193d
we got 2 weeks. boss noticed a friday/monday pattern. well duh
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 193d
Me, watching you be a little bitch while I slash the manager's tires, put sugar in their gas tank, and [redacted], before going back home to crawl back in bed, feeling refreshed knowing that I made a positive difference today: 😊
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 193d
That happened