As the other comment says, these aren't illegal orders. Wrong? Obviously. I don't think there's anything that could possibly make this illegal though. The only potential argument is that only congress can declare war, but that's been pretty much fucked since the end of WWII. It's illegal for them to tell you to target civilians. It's legal for them to tell you to invade some foreign nation, for any reason.
Congress hasn't declared war in a very long time. The president was supposed to have limited power to conduct military operations, but that power has been expanded over the past century to essentially remove the need for congress to declare war.
Again, not saying this is good. I'm just saying it's probably legal.
Yeah, I understand, but I hold on to the notion that if there were representatives with a backbone, these orders would be challenged, with impeachments and other actions rightfully taken.
Weren't a bunch of analysis predicting this? The trump administration had apparently requested that Israel strike first to provide a flimsy excuse for firing their own missiles at Iran when the Ayatollah and his gang inevitably retaliates against Israel.
youre supposed to notice the 80 million volume , obviously insiders were betting.. is this why people add what i've always thought were unnecessary red circles and arrows?
Both of these countries are killing their own civilian population. But now one of them is also killing the other country's population as well. Probably soon to be joined by the other doing the same in return.
Let me just be the anarchist in the room and say fuck both of these countries. Fuck every country. We shouldn't have countries. And we especially shouldn't have countries that kill people, no matter which side of an imaginary line they're killing people on.
One of these countries is defending its civilian population against US bombs, the other is dropping them, don't both sides this shit because Iran isn't perfect.
You can't no sides when you live on the side that's dropping the bombs. The actions your words encourage within the west are the same that the most bloodthristy warhawks encourage. You are not supporting the Iranian people's struggle by opposing the state protecting them from your state.
When a zionist says that Hamas doesn't support gay rights, do you think they are trying to support gay struggles in Palestine? No they're trying to justify murdering more palestinians, just like anyone who says "Iran also bad" in this thread.
Yes, have you seen literally any time the US has gone to war anywhere in the last 80 years? We can't even invade Panama or abduct the president of Venezuela without murdering hundreds to thousands of civilians.
Israel has murdered at least 21,000 CHILDREN over the past 30 months. To think that they have any moral standing is moronic at best, but more likely pure evil.
Yes, I'm only referencing deaths attributed to direct military action - or the IDF's direct murder of children with bullets and bombs. This is not to minimize the horror they have inflicted through genocidal policy.
I think they mean that you can't fully trust the narrative about protests you read in the Western media. There is Israeli and US involvement in those protests trying to instigate regime change.
So the OP above is parroting Israeli/US propaganda by saying the protests are a justification for the latest military action.
Making a statement that minimizes state violence because it's against a state that undertakes state violence is still minimizing state violence. In this instance it is minimizing the violence of a genocidal state that is far more violent than the state it is attacking for undertaking state violence.
So Israel and the United States are going to respond by murdering the rest of them? You do know that they bomb indiscriminately correct? I just don't understand your argument here. If you're concerned about civilian deaths how could you be supportive of this. They literally bomb hospitals.
They fed you propaganda for a few weeks to soften you up for the war that they were always planning. It's so fucking obvious that the "protests" were just a prelude to these strikes, and you just eat it up because you’ll just believe anything they tell you.
Over 100 officers were also killed by these so-called "protesters" during the riots, doesn't that strike you as odd?
The "protesters" attacked police and military targets, armed by Mossad and the CIA. In the chaos many innocent people who got drawn into the riots were also killed, and that's terrible, but the fault lays firmly at the feet of Israel and the US. They tried to instigate a color revolution, and when that failed they used it as justification for war.
And you fell for it like you always do, because you’ll just believe anything they tell you.
WWIII has been going on for a while, its just not really affecting north America or western Europe yet but Israel/Gaza/Iran, Yemen, Syria, Ukraine/Russia, and all the conflicts in Africa are 100% connected. Not an official definition or anything, but I'd say if a war affects 3 out of 6 inhabited continents it counts as a world war.
i’d say open sea predation by rivalling armadas on the other’s shipping supply lines and generally more a focus on interrupting the global infrastructure of the opponent would be a characteristic sign of a world war.
now this is also contentious, when does an interruption count? only when it’s done through violence?
There’s plenty of Christian and secular Zionists too it’s really just settler colonialist ideology that uses supremacy and pseudoscience to justify the genocide and annexation of land from the indigenous population
Israel and the associated political ideology of Zionism describes the settler colonialist state that relies on pseudoscience, theology and supremisist ideology to justify the genocide and annexation of indigenous lands.
Israel and the US have begun their war on Iran with a "regime change" as the stated goal. If they succeed, Israel cements its expansionist goals and the middle east is fucked. If Iran succeeds, Israel is fucked.
There's a small chance of a stalemate and both give up and we go back to "normal" after a whole lot of death and destruction.
The entire middle east is going to be affected either way, and to a lesser extent the world as energy distribution from the gulf will be effected.
Also, don't forget, the US attempts to cancel elections due to being in the middle of a war, despite extensive historical precedent of still holding elections during wartime.
I think a "stalemate" is more likely than you suspect - the Iranian and Israeli regimes both benefit from having the other one to demonize.
I suppose regime change is the ideal goal, but even just more war to galvanize support around Netanyahu in an election year in Israel is a win for him.
Regime change would probably mean the same thing that happened in Iraq or Afghanistan. The invading countries will leave a power vacuum and some extremist group is going to take advantage. In Iraq they had ISIS which required a whole new invasion to stop and in Afghanistan the Taliban is now stronger than before the US invasion.
With how much bombing the US and Israel are preparing to do, a stalemate won't come without major destruction in Israel and US bases. I'm not sure that'll be helpful for Satanyahu's campaign.
Also, Trump gets a massive distraction - which he presently critically needs with his approval ratings at the lowest level in either of his presidencies, and the lowest level for the first 100 days of a presidency in 80 years.
If Iran was not the country it currently is, I would condemn the attack.
Iran being the country it is, all I can say is - I doubt if this brings about any beneficial change.
There are very few examples of regimes collapsing purely due to aerial bombardment. I can recall only one example (Libya) and it had opposition in control of some cities, ready for battle with government troops (which got bombed on their way to attack the opposition)... and not much happiness resulted from it anyway.
Proud? Please explain because it seems you're not replying to me.
I live in Estonia, that's in North-Eastern Europe unless you know. We aren't bombing Iran and couldn't even if we wanted badly.
But our ally (Ukraine) is being bombed with weapons purchased from Iran and subsequent designs improved upon Iranian ones. I am also keenly aware that the Iranian regime has killed well over 10 000 of their own people to supress protests, and maybe as much as 30 000 (though I'm not convinced it's that high, it just seems the realistic top end of the estimates). That's a lot.
I am also aware that Donald Trump does not do humanitarian interventions, so the "current thing" is not a humanitarian intevention. It's a boring ordinary war with one ruler (a wannabe tyrant named Donald Trump) going at another ruler (an actual tyrant named Ali Khamenei) who failed to submit to his demands. There seems to be another ruler involved, a wanted war criminal called Benjamin Netanyahu seems to be cooperating with Trump. This makes it embarrassing to look at, emphasizing that the current thing has nothing to do with international law.
A humanitarian intervention arguably could have occurred on the night when the IRGC and Basij started shooting masses of people. It did not occur.
In the best case, the "current thing" could have some side benefits to the Iranian people, but those are unlikely to become realized and could be dwarved by unpredictable harms caused.
As a result of the situation explained above, I find it impossible to say any words of support to anyone involved, only criticize them all. The word "proud" implies support. So you are extremely wrong to think I'm proud about anything happening there currently, and I don't think others should be either.
Are you perhaps related to some group which Israel has attacked? Then I would understand the desperate need to support any tyrant, as long as they are against Israel.
If I were you, I would critically examine my news sources.
The Ukrainian government was bombing eastern Ukraine before the war up to 2022 leading to 3500 civilians killed, and this is Putin’s justification for invasion.
You are misinformed.
Do you actually know that war in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014? Have you read the timeline?
Yes, when a land war occurs, both sides will be shelling each other.
The casualty numbers due to Ukrainian fire (you forgot to provide casualty numbers through Russian fire - why did you forget? were they too big?) are unlikely, though, since it was a low-intensity conflict. But it was intense enough to drive 1.6 million people from their homes over time.
At some point, a ceasefire was reached, with sides agreeing to remove heavy guns and missile launchers to a distance from the line of contact. Then the ceasefire failed. At all points, Russia was supporting an army of approximately 30 000 to 40 000 soliders in Eastern Ukraine, and equipping them with everything from small arms to heavy artillery.
You mention "Putin's justification for invasion". He was already invading Ukraine in 2022. He had taken Crimea in 2014 and had been trying to take Donbas ever since, with low intensity warfare.
His true grievance was that Ukrainians had a revolution in 2014, and drove out president Viktor Yanukovich, whom Putin had friendly ties with. He responded with military force.
Please, study history. Do not let propagandists twist you around a finger. History is complicated but if you want to be adequate at politics, you must understand the topics you speak about.
70 years ago, Iran had extremely poor relations between government and parliament, but could have come through of that period without the UK + US organized coup.
The Shah could have been influenced and moderated, but nobody gave a damn.
The Islamic revolution was not the only possible outcome of the revolution to oust the Shah, but it was allowed to go that way. Nobody gave a damn.
The Iraq-Iran war could have been prevented. As it happened, it gave the ayatollahs legitimacy. They could claim to represent Iran as they were actually defending against an Iraqi invasion.
So, one act of malicious interference by the UK + US, several acts of the international community (note: of that time, with peculiarities of that time) not having any damns to give, and one act of malicious interference by the dictator of Iraq. And the various strikes and assassinations by Israel.
Germany and Japan after 1945 went pretty well. Panama 1989 wasn't too bad. Grenada, 1983. Serbia, 2000, not horrrible. USA had a big influence in South Korea getting rid of its military dictatorship in 1980s. Chile was first a bit of a shitshow, but after 1988 went a bit better.
Their Middle East meddlings have not been so great, admittedly. Defending Kuwait against Iraq went pretty well, but that's pretty much it. Iran especially went to absolute shit.
WWII is the one exceptional case of american intervention. After that you're literally scraping the bottom of the barrel. 3 of those were our puppets and the last was a tiny Carribean island.
Let's look at some of the other examplea
Afghanistan
Libya
Syria
Iraq
Honduras
Nicaragua
Angola
Namibia
Chile (putting in Pinochet)
Vietnam
Laos
Iran
North Korea
Philippines
Cuba (Bautista)
There's certainly more - almost every Latin american nation could be mentioned - but I think I've made my point.
Do you really think the Islamic Republic of Iran will fall like Noriega? Please. They'll have a new Supreme Ayatollah in months and there's still the entire IRGC to deal with. The Iranian people may not be as theological as their government but they are deeply nationalist. Any criticism of their government is now: "you want our schoolgirls bombed".
Only if you believe the Iraq or Afghanistan wars were okay (in which case you'll have to reasonably argue they were worth the millions killed, wounded and displaced in the process).
Well you're right.. seems to be same. Bad guy attacks bad guy saying to free people. A few years later thousands are dead, no one is free but some of the bad guys made good money.
173 Comments
ClownStatue@piefed.social · 166 pts · 157d
Wow. Didn't see that coming. Not at all.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 17 pts · 157d
he needed a quick distraction from MR "dead" esptein files.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 156d
tackleberry@thelemmy.club · 3 pts · 157d
I would not be surprised if my boi Epstein is chilling out somewhere in ISrael
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 155 pts · 157d
For any US soldier reading this thread: you are attacking another country to cover up for your pedophile president.
spirinolas@lemmy.world · 48 pts · 157d
We need to call this the Pedophile War
Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 156d
I can't help having the horrible thought that Epstein is our Franz Ferdinand.
Monument@lemmy.sdf.org · 29 pts · 157d
Yup. Apparently the Clintons testified in front of Congress yesterday regarding the Epstein files. That’s not high on the list headlines today.
tackleberry@thelemmy.club · 16 pts · 157d
US government protects pedophiles. Their soldiers have no option than to comply.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 157d
Yes, they do. American soldiers MUST disobey illegal orders.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 157d
This is not clearly illegal. Disobeying these orders would get you a court martial, and they will say it was legal.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · -1 pts · 157d
It depends on the orders.
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 156d
Like when they invaded vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Venezuela?
Yeah they'll totally not follow orders....
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 156d
As the other comment says, these aren't illegal orders. Wrong? Obviously. I don't think there's anything that could possibly make this illegal though. The only potential argument is that only congress can declare war, but that's been pretty much fucked since the end of WWII. It's illegal for them to tell you to target civilians. It's legal for them to tell you to invade some foreign nation, for any reason.
Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 156d
Has Congress declared war? I thought that was the legal avenue for actions such as these.
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 156d
Congress hasn't declared war in a very long time. The president was supposed to have limited power to conduct military operations, but that power has been expanded over the past century to essentially remove the need for congress to declare war.
Again, not saying this is good. I'm just saying it's probably legal.
Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 155d
Yeah, I understand, but I hold on to the notion that if there were representatives with a backbone, these orders would be challenged, with impeachments and other actions rightfully taken.
selokichtli@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 157d
The land of the free pedophiles.
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world · 112 pts · 157d
Weren't a bunch of analysis predicting this? The trump administration had apparently requested that Israel strike first to provide a flimsy excuse for firing their own missiles at Iran when the Ayatollah and his gang inevitably retaliates against Israel.
3abas@lemmy.world · 62 pts · 157d
Israel has already stated officially that this was a joint attack with the US.
hector@lemmy.today · 35 pts · 157d
We were also predicting that israel would use their epstein blackmail to start their forever war. We were right.
Evotech@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 157d
NoForwadSlashS@piefed.social · 18 pts · 157d
You're looking at the odds after it already happened. It was like 5% yesterday.
SethW@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 157d
youre supposed to notice the 80 million volume , obviously insiders were betting.. is this why people add what i've always thought were unnecessary red circles and arrows?
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 157d
“Your the reason for unnecessary red circles” is actually a devastating insult.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 156d
There's two dozen pieces of information in that screenshot and you expect us to pick out the tiny one that doesn't mean anything to us?
Evotech@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 157d
How does that work
ayyy@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 156d
Republican corruption and crime, mostly.
Geobloke@aussie.zone · 16 pts · 157d
The USA has followed up now according to Reuters
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 156d
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 157d
Sending all those ships to the Indian Ocean. 🤔💡
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de · 7 pts · 157d
Just a lil vacation trip for our poor lil soldiers :3
Evotech@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 157d
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -74 pts · 157d
Oh no a country slaughtering civilians is going to get invaded... Anyway.
hoch@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 157d
I hope Iranian civilians stay safe. As for the government? Don't care.
selokichtli@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 157d
Wait, Is Israel being finally invaded?
Riverside@reddthat.com · 17 pts · 157d
abbadon420@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 157d
How is this propaganda? The iranian government literally killed thousands of students who were protesting in the streets only a few weeks ago.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 42 pts · 157d
Guys, guys. Chill.
Both of these countries are killing their own civilian population. But now one of them is also killing the other country's population as well. Probably soon to be joined by the other doing the same in return.
Let me just be the anarchist in the room and say fuck both of these countries. Fuck every country. We shouldn't have countries. And we especially shouldn't have countries that kill people, no matter which side of an imaginary line they're killing people on.
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 157d
One of these countries is defending its civilian population against US bombs, the other is dropping them, don't both sides this shit because Iran isn't perfect.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 11 pts · 157d
I'm not trying to 'both sides' this shit as much as I'm trying to 'no sides' this shit.
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · -6 pts · 157d
You can't no sides when you live on the side that's dropping the bombs. The actions your words encourage within the west are the same that the most bloodthristy warhawks encourage. You are not supporting the Iranian people's struggle by opposing the state protecting them from your state.
When a zionist says that Hamas doesn't support gay rights, do you think they are trying to support gay struggles in Palestine? No they're trying to justify murdering more palestinians, just like anyone who says "Iran also bad" in this thread.
Horsecook@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 157d
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 157d
Yes, have you seen literally any time the US has gone to war anywhere in the last 80 years? We can't even invade Panama or abduct the president of Venezuela without murdering hundreds to thousands of civilians.
silverneedle@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 157d
Truth.
Damionsipher@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 157d
Israel has murdered at least 21,000 CHILDREN over the past 30 months. To think that they have any moral standing is moronic at best, but more likely pure evil.
Riverside@reddthat.com · 23 pts · 157d
Damionsipher@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 157d
Yes, I'm only referencing deaths attributed to direct military action - or the IDF's direct murder of children with bullets and bombs. This is not to minimize the horror they have inflicted through genocidal policy.
Riverside@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 157d
abbadon420@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 157d
...and the sky is blue. But how is this propaganda? How is invading another country, propaganda for zionists?
MagnificentSteiner@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 157d
I think they mean that you can't fully trust the narrative about protests you read in the Western media. There is Israeli and US involvement in those protests trying to instigate regime change.
So the OP above is parroting Israeli/US propaganda by saying the protests are a justification for the latest military action.
Damionsipher@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
Making a statement that minimizes state violence because it's against a state that undertakes state violence is still minimizing state violence. In this instance it is minimizing the violence of a genocidal state that is far more violent than the state it is attacking for undertaking state violence.
Sharkticon@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 157d
So Israel and the United States are going to respond by murdering the rest of them? You do know that they bomb indiscriminately correct? I just don't understand your argument here. If you're concerned about civilian deaths how could you be supportive of this. They literally bomb hospitals.
abbadon420@sh.itjust.works · -6 pts · 157d
Cool your tits. I didn't say any of that.
Riverside@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 157d
Grimy@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 157d
Well in this case, Casey is literally an LLM bot so it's probably propaganda. Check their modlog.
tackleberry@thelemmy.club · -1 pts · 157d
clot27@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 157d
And your source for that is CIA, right
hoch@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 157d
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 157d
lemming@anarchist.nexus · 8 pts · 157d
Ever heard of Palestinians? Gaza? No?
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 157d
lemming@anarchist.nexus · 7 pts · 157d
You said they are promoting not slaughtering civilians, while they are slaughtering civilians.
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 157d
Sharkticon@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 157d
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 157d
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 157d
Zionists are dropping bombs on their population. Iran is defending against Israel and America.
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 157d
foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev · -4 pts · 157d
too drunk to think?"
Riverside@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 157d
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 157d
Riverside@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 157d
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 157d
NewDark@lemmings.world · 15 pts · 157d
Have you seen Gaza bro?
Riverside@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 157d
foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev · -11 pts · 157d
Hamas had it operational bases under civilian facilities such as hospitals.
Riverside@reddthat.com · 14 pts · 157d
idiomaddict@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 157d
Because it’s worked out great all the other times the US has done that
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -7 pts · 157d
You'll just believe anything they tell you, huh?
Wataba@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 157d
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -7 pts · 157d
They fed you propaganda for a few weeks to soften you up for the war that they were always planning. It's so fucking obvious that the "protests" were just a prelude to these strikes, and you just eat it up because you’ll just believe anything they tell you.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 157d
Yep. https://www.resistusledwarmovement.com/uploads/1/1/0/0/110020547/full_series_-_iran_hybrid_warfare_weapons_watch_compressed.pdf
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 157d
Formfiller@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 157d
https://www.resistusledwarmovement.com/uploads/1/1/0/0/110020547/full_series_-_iran_hybrid_warfare_weapons_watch_compressed.pdf
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -8 pts · 157d
Over 100 officers were also killed by these so-called "protesters" during the riots, doesn't that strike you as odd?
The "protesters" attacked police and military targets, armed by Mossad and the CIA. In the chaos many innocent people who got drawn into the riots were also killed, and that's terrible, but the fault lays firmly at the feet of Israel and the US. They tried to instigate a color revolution, and when that failed they used it as justification for war.
And you fell for it like you always do, because you’ll just believe anything they tell you.
username_1@programming.dev · 11 pts · 157d
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -9 pts · 157d
There's nothing revolutionary about acting on behalf of Israel and the US.
username_1@programming.dev · 13 pts · 157d
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 157d
queermunist@lemmy.ml · -8 pts · 157d
Yeah you never saw a CIA-backed coup you didn't like.
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
I sure have, tons of shit they do is bat shit insane but I've never fired on civilians in response.
Arancello@aussie.zone · 108 pts · 157d
Retitle this to say the chairman of the bored of peace started WWIII
kamenlady@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 157d
This name fits that group perfectly
Berengaria_of_Navarre@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 157d
WWIII has been going on for a while, its just not really affecting north America or western Europe yet but Israel/Gaza/Iran, Yemen, Syria, Ukraine/Russia, and all the conflicts in Africa are 100% connected. Not an official definition or anything, but I'd say if a war affects 3 out of 6 inhabited continents it counts as a world war.
e8CArkcAuLE@piefed.social · 4 pts · 157d
i’d say open sea predation by rivalling armadas on the other’s shipping supply lines and generally more a focus on interrupting the global infrastructure of the opponent would be a characteristic sign of a world war. now this is also contentious, when does an interruption count? only when it’s done through violence?
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 157d
We're stopping and confiscating and blowing up ships and boats all over the globe. Seems like we're being awfully predatory at sea already.
e8CArkcAuLE@piefed.social · 2 pts · 157d
exactly!
hector@lemmy.today · 15 pts · 157d
Fpr the record, this is not world war three, rather cold war two, the fascist boogaloo, the enemy within. Trademark.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 55 pts · 157d
Iran has the right to defend itself.
hoch@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 156d
They can try, but they're kinda getting their ass kicked
wpb@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 156d
How disgusting that you would talk about this like it's some soccer match. What an absolutely inhumane thing to write.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 156d
"inhumane"[sic]? It's a perfectly true and very human thing to write. Ever crack open a history book? Like, any history?
hoch@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 156d
Am I incorrect, though?
wpb@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 156d
Yes, you are. Why are you even asking?
Riverside@reddthat.com · 52 pts · 157d
SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 157d
Currently in a country with a US base, currently hearing Iran's missile blasts. Still on Iran's side
Riverside@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 157d
SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 157d
You too friend, and I hope things eventually improve without fearful leadership who see the US as the rulers of the world.
exaybachae@startrek.website · -24 pts · 157d
What is a Zionist and why does one thirst for blood.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 38 pts · 157d
A racist who hides behind their Judaism and think other peoples land is their god given birthright.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 157d
There’s plenty of Christian and secular Zionists too it’s really just settler colonialist ideology that uses supremacy and pseudoscience to justify the genocide and annexation of land from the indigenous population
foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev · -24 pts · 157d
also there's plenty of secular antisemitism, usually identifying itself as anti-zionist. Herzliche Grüße!
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 156d
NewDark@lemmings.world · 13 pts · 157d
Modern day fascist. This time the "in group" is defined as Jewish Israelis.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 156d
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 157d
Israel and the associated political ideology of Zionism describes the settler colonialist state that relies on pseudoscience, theology and supremisist ideology to justify the genocide and annexation of indigenous lands.
foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev · -8 pts · 157d
the only intellectually worthwhile post i read here so far. thanks!
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 156d
Ignorance of Zionism is “the only worthwhile post?”
Ya, that tracks…
foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev · -3 pts · 156d
in fact i embrace it.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 156d
Ignorance isn’t something to be proud of.
MonsterMonster@lemmy.world · 46 pts · 157d
That Board of Peace is working really well.
D_C@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 157d
Bored*
PrimeMinisterKeyes@leminal.space · 4 pts · 156d
A second FIFA peace prize should fix the situation.
selokichtli@lemmy.ml · 20 pts · 157d
It's like the USA is falling in the void.
hector@lemmy.today · 16 pts · 156d
it's an abyss thank you very much.
selokichtli@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 156d
Sorry, it's like I had to write it down so it started to sink, I guess.
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 19 pts · 157d
chose the wrong day to delete the Signal app
PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk · 22 pts · 157d
could have got some mad skillz real time Hegseth updates if you hadn't!
kokesh@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 157d
Orange cunt shaking his shriveled dick covered in shit form his overfilled diaper. Way to go, USA!
N0t_5ure@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 156d
That first sentence is a work of art.
username_1@programming.dev · 14 pts · 157d
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 157d
Err, wtf is happening?
3abas@lemmy.world · 51 pts · 157d
Israel and the US have begun their war on Iran with a "regime change" as the stated goal. If they succeed, Israel cements its expansionist goals and the middle east is fucked. If Iran succeeds, Israel is fucked.
There's a small chance of a stalemate and both give up and we go back to "normal" after a whole lot of death and destruction.
The entire middle east is going to be affected either way, and to a lesser extent the world as energy distribution from the gulf will be effected.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 42 pts · 157d
Also, don't forget, the US attempts to cancel elections due to being in the middle of a war, despite extensive historical precedent of still holding elections during wartime.
Oofnik@kbin.earth · 19 pts · 157d
I think a "stalemate" is more likely than you suspect - the Iranian and Israeli regimes both benefit from having the other one to demonize. I suppose regime change is the ideal goal, but even just more war to galvanize support around Netanyahu in an election year in Israel is a win for him.
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 157d
Regime change would probably mean the same thing that happened in Iraq or Afghanistan. The invading countries will leave a power vacuum and some extremist group is going to take advantage. In Iraq they had ISIS which required a whole new invasion to stop and in Afghanistan the Taliban is now stronger than before the US invasion.
3abas@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
With how much bombing the US and Israel are preparing to do, a stalemate won't come without major destruction in Israel and US bases. I'm not sure that'll be helpful for Satanyahu's campaign.
exaybachae@startrek.website · 2 pts · 157d
So, who profits from this?
3abas@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 157d
Israel primarily, US second.
pulsewidth@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 157d
Also, Trump gets a massive distraction - which he presently critically needs with his approval ratings at the lowest level in either of his presidencies, and the lowest level for the first 100 days of a presidency in 80 years.
Zexks@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 156d
Uhh the middle east has been fucked for centuries. Nothing thats happening will change any of that.
clot27@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 157d
Americans think they wont face consequences of their actions, thats why they do this
We need to make them face consequences
GO IRAN!!!
cabillaud@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 156d
American diplomacy in action.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 157d
The consciences of those honourable men and women serving their old country (the usa) must be taking a severe beating.
doesit@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 156d
Drill, baby, drill...
And s*** Netanyahu along the way
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 156d
why would you shit netanyahu?
maplesaga@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 156d
Cruel dictatorship is good?
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 156d
Please dear god USS Gerald Ford soldiers keep shitting so the carrier is incapacitated and the US can't invade
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 156d
Where do we sign up to root for Iran?
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 157d
I thought this was a pretty good summary of what is happening over there https://www.resistusledwarmovement.com/uploads/1/1/0/0/110020547/full_series_-_iran_hybrid_warfare_weapons_watch_compressed.pdf
fosho@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 156d
this looks pretty biased and doesn't provide any sources for many claims. I'm not sure it's a trustworthy assessment.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 156d
Other than the historical record of regime change intervention that the us government has been doing for decades?
napkin2020@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 156d
One can argue that the material seems to be biased when the domain is resistusledwarmovement.com
perestroika@slrpnk.net · -4 pts · 157d
If Iran was not the country it currently is, I would condemn the attack.
Iran being the country it is, all I can say is - I doubt if this brings about any beneficial change.
There are very few examples of regimes collapsing purely due to aerial bombardment. I can recall only one example (Libya) and it had opposition in control of some cities, ready for battle with government troops (which got bombed on their way to attack the opposition)... and not much happiness resulted from it anyway.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 157d
The US and Israel bombed an elementary school and killed 40 Iranian girls are you proud of yourself?
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 157d
It's their own fault for not being born someplace good. /S
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 156d
Proud? Please explain because it seems you're not replying to me.
I live in Estonia, that's in North-Eastern Europe unless you know. We aren't bombing Iran and couldn't even if we wanted badly.
But our ally (Ukraine) is being bombed with weapons purchased from Iran and subsequent designs improved upon Iranian ones. I am also keenly aware that the Iranian regime has killed well over 10 000 of their own people to supress protests, and maybe as much as 30 000 (though I'm not convinced it's that high, it just seems the realistic top end of the estimates). That's a lot.
I am also aware that Donald Trump does not do humanitarian interventions, so the "current thing" is not a humanitarian intevention. It's a boring ordinary war with one ruler (a wannabe tyrant named Donald Trump) going at another ruler (an actual tyrant named Ali Khamenei) who failed to submit to his demands. There seems to be another ruler involved, a wanted war criminal called Benjamin Netanyahu seems to be cooperating with Trump. This makes it embarrassing to look at, emphasizing that the current thing has nothing to do with international law.
A humanitarian intervention arguably could have occurred on the night when the IRGC and Basij started shooting masses of people. It did not occur.
In the best case, the "current thing" could have some side benefits to the Iranian people, but those are unlikely to become realized and could be dwarved by unpredictable harms caused.
As a result of the situation explained above, I find it impossible to say any words of support to anyone involved, only criticize them all. The word "proud" implies support. So you are extremely wrong to think I'm proud about anything happening there currently, and I don't think others should be either.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 156d
Iran sells weapons to Russia because the West sanctioned Iran for opposing genocide.
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 156d
Sanctions on Iran pre-date the genocide in Gaza by a long time.
Riverside@reddthat.com · -3 pts · 156d
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 155d
I wonder what causes you to lie, when you have information available that indicates the contrary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025%E2%80%932026_Iranian_protests
Are you perhaps related to some group which Israel has attacked? Then I would understand the desperate need to support any tyrant, as long as they are against Israel.
If I were you, I would critically examine my news sources.
Riverside@reddthat.com · -1 pts · 155d
Riverside@reddthat.com · -4 pts · 156d
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 155d
You are misinformed.
Do you actually know that war in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014? Have you read the timeline?
Yes, when a land war occurs, both sides will be shelling each other.
The casualty numbers due to Ukrainian fire (you forgot to provide casualty numbers through Russian fire - why did you forget? were they too big?) are unlikely, though, since it was a low-intensity conflict. But it was intense enough to drive 1.6 million people from their homes over time.
At some point, a ceasefire was reached, with sides agreeing to remove heavy guns and missile launchers to a distance from the line of contact. Then the ceasefire failed. At all points, Russia was supporting an army of approximately 30 000 to 40 000 soliders in Eastern Ukraine, and equipping them with everything from small arms to heavy artillery.
You mention "Putin's justification for invasion". He was already invading Ukraine in 2022. He had taken Crimea in 2014 and had been trying to take Donbas ever since, with low intensity warfare.
His true grievance was that Ukrainians had a revolution in 2014, and drove out president Viktor Yanukovich, whom Putin had friendly ties with. He responded with military force.
Please, study history. Do not let propagandists twist you around a finger. History is complicated but if you want to be adequate at politics, you must understand the topics you speak about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
Riverside@reddthat.com · -1 pts · 155d
goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org · 7 pts · 157d
I wonder which countries played roles in it becoming like that. This would be what the 4th time Israel and USA have done/attempted regime change?
perestroika@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 156d
I know the history. It's bitter.
70 years ago, Iran had extremely poor relations between government and parliament, but could have come through of that period without the UK + US organized coup.
The Shah could have been influenced and moderated, but nobody gave a damn.
The Islamic revolution was not the only possible outcome of the revolution to oust the Shah, but it was allowed to go that way. Nobody gave a damn.
The Iraq-Iran war could have been prevented. As it happened, it gave the ayatollahs legitimacy. They could claim to represent Iran as they were actually defending against an Iraqi invasion.
So, one act of malicious interference by the UK + US, several acts of the international community (note: of that time, with peculiarities of that time) not having any damns to give, and one act of malicious interference by the dictator of Iraq. And the various strikes and assassinations by Israel.
vga@sopuli.xyz · -5 pts · 157d
Hope for a rapid victory and a regime change to something not-so-obviously-shit in Iran. I hope they know what they're doing.
Not very probable I guess.
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 46 pts · 157d
Do you think Israel/America are there to help the Iranian people? How'd that work out in Afghanistan? Iraq? Syria? Libya?
clot27@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 157d
Americans will say shit like this and then wonder why the world hates them
Hegar@fedia.io · 15 pts · 157d
No good outcome is possible from two brutal murdeous authoritarian regimes attacking a third.
vga@sopuli.xyz · -1 pts · 157d
Seems like a much better option that all parties involved in a war are brutal, murderous, authoritarian than if one of them wouldn't be. Like Ukraine.
Riverside@reddthat.com · -3 pts · 156d
queermunist@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 157d
Yeah I'm sure the regime installed by fucking Israel and the US will be so much better! 🤡
i078@europe.pub · 7 pts · 157d
Given the US had a second carrier group move up, they think it might take a while
sudo@programming.dev · 1 pts · 156d
Utterly ignorant of every previous american attempt at regime change.
vga@sopuli.xyz · -1 pts · 156d
Not at all.
Germany and Japan after 1945 went pretty well. Panama 1989 wasn't too bad. Grenada, 1983. Serbia, 2000, not horrrible. USA had a big influence in South Korea getting rid of its military dictatorship in 1980s. Chile was first a bit of a shitshow, but after 1988 went a bit better.
Their Middle East meddlings have not been so great, admittedly. Defending Kuwait against Iraq went pretty well, but that's pretty much it. Iran especially went to absolute shit.
sudo@programming.dev · 0 pts · 155d
WWII is the one exceptional case of american intervention. After that you're literally scraping the bottom of the barrel. 3 of those were our puppets and the last was a tiny Carribean island.
Let's look at some of the other examplea
There's certainly more - almost every Latin american nation could be mentioned - but I think I've made my point.
Do you really think the Islamic Republic of Iran will fall like Noriega? Please. They'll have a new Supreme Ayatollah in months and there's still the entire IRGC to deal with. The Iranian people may not be as theological as their government but they are deeply nationalist. Any criticism of their government is now: "you want our schoolgirls bombed".
HollowHawk@lemmy.zip · -11 pts · 157d
When evil fights evil is this.. good?
NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io · 9 pts · 157d
Only if you believe the Iraq or Afghanistan wars were okay (in which case you'll have to reasonably argue they were worth the millions killed, wounded and displaced in the process).
HollowHawk@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 157d
Well you're right.. seems to be same. Bad guy attacks bad guy saying to free people. A few years later thousands are dead, no one is free but some of the bad guys made good money.
I guess but i don't have all facts
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 157d
Average Liberal cheering on the genocidal Israeli ethnostate.
HollowHawk@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 157d
what?
yarrage@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 157d
You said a silly thing.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 157d
You are seeing Israel commit genocide and are already cheering on their next genocide.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 157d
Israel and the US bombed a girls school and killed 40 girls are you proud of yourself?
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 157d
No.
HollowHawk@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 157d
Riverside@reddthat.com · -4 pts · 156d