Cyclists do have higher risk of injury from traffic, but the health benefits from the exercise they get more than makes up for it. Cyclists have significantly lower all-around mortality and injury/sickness rates than car drivers.
This might mean that your bike is the wrong size for you, or you have the seat adjusted too high or too low. Or even that your crank arms are too short or too long for you. You should definitely play around with changing the geometry of your bike and/or try bikes with different geometry. You might find that knee pain goes away once you dial it in correctly.
Then again, maybe not. Well, if all else fails, you could always get an ebike instead; that should help with knee issues if nothing else does. Though they're becoming illegal/legally problematic in some jurisdictions now.
I'm passively considering the e-bike option but need to actually look it up, if it's affordable, thanks.
I added vertical handle bars and some height to my seat so it's alright on a plane road, yep. My problems comes from a very rough terrain with hills, sand pockets, no pavement etc I'm forced to use since public roads are tight and have barriers, no curb. 45mx2 per day, 5 days a week was rough, and I was probably pushing myself too hard trying to get in a timeframe comparable to a public transport.
I wonder if popular ebikes may come in a fitting, rugged variant, that can survive being offroad like MTBs.
Dual suspension e-bikes are kinda pricey, but fat tire ones will handle most of what you mentioned. Those ones unfortunately tend to be more like electric mopeds or dirt bikes though, and are giving e-bikes a bad rep in some circles.
I wonder if popular ebikes may come in a fitting, rugged variant, that can survive being offroad like MTBs.
There are actual electric MTBs out there if you look for them, though the real MTB ones tend to be quite pricey.
Thankfully, it doesn't really sound like you need a fully legit MTB. Plenty of ebikes out there on Amazon or whatever that have fat tires and suspension and should be able to handle some light off-road riding.
I see more people on scooters these days - maybe that would be gentler on the knees? Roller blades might also help, but I find every crack and bump on the road a source of terror with those
You need food regardless if you bike or drive. Maybe just a little more if you are in good trim and bike a lot. Still cheaper than gas for a car though.
The amount of calories you burn every day doesn't change much, even if you exercise. Unless you're doing some serious hardcore training or exposing yourself to extreme cold, it won't make much difference to your calorie usage (your body just reallocates it from something else to exercise). Most of your movement calorie-burn is just from everyday movement.
One of my friends did a personal study on his costs at uni and found it was more cost effective to drive his car (this was in the early 2000's) than it was to ride his bike to uni everyday than buy the food required to fuel the 50km round trip.
Round trip, so it was 25km. Sadly Peth Australia has one of the largest urban sprawls on the planet so 25km isn't an unreasonable commute here and when you are a young uni student sometimes it's more cost effective overall to live with your parents. This isn't a post in support of cars, it's more saying that fuel for bicycles is most certainly not free and to suggest it is is disingenuous. Arguably there may have been other things my friend could have done to reduce his food bill, but he was already pretty thrifty in general.
He tracked his food costs and fuel costs for a few months, noted when he drove and when he cycled and then correlated total costs with transportation mode. I have no idea how he was sourcing his food or what he was eating.
I think public transport at the time was a real screw around for him because his area was poorly serviced and the nearest train station was super dodgy
Yeah I live in a city with decent public transportation, but unfortunately my neighborhood is the one that's poorly serviced, it'd take me two hours and multiple changes to get to work, it takes me 35 minutes by car and 20 by motorbike.
Of course I take the latter as often as possible, it's just better, even on fuel consumption.
I'd like to bicycle to work like I did to my previous job, but here it's just not an option, it'd take over one hour, I'd get there drenched in sweat, and risk my life multiple times.
Yeah, ebikes are significantly more economical and ecological. The human body is very inefficient at converting calories into kinetic energy, and producing 1kcal of food has a much worse CO2 output than even burning 1kcal worth of coal. Even if you follow a vegan diet
It still beats driving a car by a long shot though
The human body will burn calories pretty much either way, and if you let your body adjust to daily riding your resting energy use will go down. If you want to be healthy you need exercise either way. Given all that you can consider the energy required to ride a bicycle for a medium distance daily to be virtually free.
if you let your body adjust to daily riding your resting energy use will go down
No, that's just a lie. The only way you're gonna significantly reduce your BMR from daily bike riding is if you were a fatty and lost weight due to it, but a diet would accomplish the same job. If an untrained person starts commuting daily with their bike the exact opposite will happen, they will grow more muscles in their calves and quads, which will significantly increase the amount of calories they passively burn, and that's on top of the energy you burn while riding the bicycle.
You don't need to make up bullshit to justify commuting with a bicycle, it will absolutely increase the amount of calories you will need to eat, but that's a low price to pay for the money you save not commuting with a car, let alone the health benefits
You are right, I was working with outdated info. Just last year there was a study that showed the body doesn't compensate metabolically for the exercise and the added calorie burn is not offset by conservation elsewhere. I can't find the source of my misconception, but I guess it was widespread enough that they ran a study to disprove it.
Even the higher-price mid-range bikes are way cheaper than the cheapest cars, and there's a lot on the bike that you can just do yourself instead of relying on a mechanic, most parts are cheaper as well, lots of bikes allow more personalization...
Bikes are the paragon of freedom Anericans think cars are.
In NY, nothing beats an illegally de-limited electric bicycle. Often a regular one beats cars, especially if you are willing to run a red light here and there.
Buses, cops and ambulances get stuck in traffic too because New Yorkers don't leave a Rettungsgasse. Look in all directions before running a red light or abusing right turn priority with a U-turn in the adjacent street.
In cities bikes are often faster than cars. They don't get stuck in traffic and you don't have to worry about parking. On longer distances this goes away, but short urban trips are no brainers.
Depends on the city. And the definition of city.
My city used to be a "bicycle city" before it was cool, but nowadays cars have taken over the roads and the bike infrastructure that's been created sucks, when I worked just 6km from home, car was faster even in rush hour traffic. Now work is outside the city and the bike is simply too impractical, it takes too much time and it's dangerous.
I have fond memories of working and living in the country side and going to work on my MTB through tree plantations, but alas, that's in the past.
How does this have so many upvotes? As long as it's actually possible to ride your bike in your city, the cost of buying and then maintaining a bicycle is WAY, WAY, cheaper than a car
You actually can get bikes for free pretty often, especially if you've got the ability to turn a wrench.
And while modern tires probably do incorporate some fossil 'fuels' (technically not fossil fuel if you're not burning it, by the way), they don't have to. Old school tires are made from vulcanized rubber, which can be made by reacting natural rubber from a rubber tree with sulfuric acid and heat. No fossil 'fuels' involved.
Bikes are incredibly cheaper than cars, cars need new tires more often, car tires are way more expensive, you can make tires without fossil oil. I'm not sure I get your point. What was your point?
Bicycles have less mass than a car and therefore need less fossil fuel for their tires.
Bicycles are objectively cheaper to buy, maintain, and run than a car, even if you go for the average expensive bicycle and the average cheap car. There just is no way to make the car come out on top when it's about costs.
Car tires usually weigh more than 7kg and you need 4 instead of two.
The only slightest bit of an argument here could be for trains.
I also need maybe 5 specialised tools to service my bike (which is veeeery easy to do compared to doing it on a car) and those tools together cost less than 200€. Then I spend around 200€ a year or less on parts to service my bike, and I use it to go to work every day.
My car is sooooo much more expensive than that, even though I do most stuff myself.
You’re making perfection the enemy of good. Nobody said bikes themselves were free - everything requires some maintenance and parts.
And if we are comparing bike tires to car tires, they are still a lower volume of petroleum based rubber, and cheaper (especially given that you need two rather than four). A new bike tire is generally anywhere between $50-100, so that’s $100-200 to change the pair you are riding. And new car tires are about $150-250 depending on brand and size, so that’s $600-$1000.
75 Comments
jasoman@lemmy.world · 95 pts · 108d
I think food to pedal the bike cost money.
FancyPantsFIRE@lemmy.world · 67 pts · 108d
And don’t even get me started on all the healthcare the meat bag driving it needs.
Alabaster_Mango@lemmy.ca · 24 pts · 108d
Edmonton is in Canada, so that is covered đź‘Ť
bdonvr@thelemmy.club · 16 pts · 107d
Just don't get your teeth knocked out in the crash
Alabaster_Mango@lemmy.ca · 24 pts · 107d
Teeth? Do you mean Luxury Bones™?
Damage@feddit.it · 2 pts · 107d
Luxury Bones Enamel Edition Pro Max
grue@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 107d
Probably less than non-cyclists due to better health, so a net negative cost.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 17 pts · 107d
Studies have actually been done on this.
Cyclists do have higher risk of injury from traffic, but the health benefits from the exercise they get more than makes up for it. Cyclists have significantly lower all-around mortality and injury/sickness rates than car drivers.
altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 107d
Fuck them knees tho. Even on good bike, commuting daily overwhelmes them for me :(
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 23 pts · 107d
This might mean that your bike is the wrong size for you, or you have the seat adjusted too high or too low. Or even that your crank arms are too short or too long for you. You should definitely play around with changing the geometry of your bike and/or try bikes with different geometry. You might find that knee pain goes away once you dial it in correctly.
Then again, maybe not. Well, if all else fails, you could always get an ebike instead; that should help with knee issues if nothing else does. Though they're becoming illegal/legally problematic in some jurisdictions now.
altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 107d
I'm passively considering the e-bike option but need to actually look it up, if it's affordable, thanks.
I added vertical handle bars and some height to my seat so it's alright on a plane road, yep. My problems comes from a very rough terrain with hills, sand pockets, no pavement etc I'm forced to use since public roads are tight and have barriers, no curb. 45mx2 per day, 5 days a week was rough, and I was probably pushing myself too hard trying to get in a timeframe comparable to a public transport.
I wonder if popular ebikes may come in a fitting, rugged variant, that can survive being offroad like MTBs.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 107d
Dual suspension e-bikes are kinda pricey, but fat tire ones will handle most of what you mentioned. Those ones unfortunately tend to be more like electric mopeds or dirt bikes though, and are giving e-bikes a bad rep in some circles.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 1 pts · 107d
There are actual electric MTBs out there if you look for them, though the real MTB ones tend to be quite pricey.
Thankfully, it doesn't really sound like you need a fully legit MTB. Plenty of ebikes out there on Amazon or whatever that have fat tires and suspension and should be able to handle some light off-road riding.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 107d
You should not have any knee strain. Most people ride poorly fitting bikes with the seat too low.
NottaLottaOcelot@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 107d
I see more people on scooters these days - maybe that would be gentler on the knees? Roller blades might also help, but I find every crack and bump on the road a source of terror with those
greyscale@lemmy.grey.ooo · 5 pts · 107d
US specific issue.
jasoman@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 107d
I guess when you have fancy pants, you go on adventures.
Fafa@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 107d
Also the extra exercise will prolong your life and you'll have to pay even more.
NottaLottaOcelot@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 107d
Longer life means you have to buy more food. That will make a hilarious ad campaign for cars - save money, live shorter
Geobloke@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 106d
Live fat, die young
Damn, I miss their compilations
BC_viper@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 107d
Its more the cocaine needed to ride long distance that costs the money.
hanke@feddit.nu · 7 pts · 107d
You need food regardless if you bike or drive. Maybe just a little more if you are in good trim and bike a lot. Still cheaper than gas for a car though.
DakRalter@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 102d
The amount of calories you burn every day doesn't change much, even if you exercise. Unless you're doing some serious hardcore training or exposing yourself to extreme cold, it won't make much difference to your calorie usage (your body just reallocates it from something else to exercise). Most of your movement calorie-burn is just from everyday movement.
Karmanopoly@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 107d
That's why I use an electric self driving bike
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 107d
One of my friends did a personal study on his costs at uni and found it was more cost effective to drive his car (this was in the early 2000's) than it was to ride his bike to uni everyday than buy the food required to fuel the 50km round trip.
grue@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 107d
Hope he wasn't majoring in anything like math or biology.
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 107d
Well he certainly wasn't majoring in wilful ignorance so that probably works in his favour.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 5 pts · 107d
Maybe try not living 50km away from the university you need to attend almost every day?
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 8 pts · 107d
Round trip, so it was 25km. Sadly Peth Australia has one of the largest urban sprawls on the planet so 25km isn't an unreasonable commute here and when you are a young uni student sometimes it's more cost effective overall to live with your parents. This isn't a post in support of cars, it's more saying that fuel for bicycles is most certainly not free and to suggest it is is disingenuous. Arguably there may have been other things my friend could have done to reduce his food bill, but he was already pretty thrifty in general.
needanke@feddit.org · 3 pts · 107d
Wbat food did he use for that math? Because I doubt it would have hold up if he only used rice/beans/noodles/etc. To fuel his bike ride.
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 107d
He tracked his food costs and fuel costs for a few months, noted when he drove and when he cycled and then correlated total costs with transportation mode. I have no idea how he was sourcing his food or what he was eating.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 107d
So drive and starve was the conclusion? Was this Trump U?
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 107d
No it was the increase in petrol cost was less when he drove than his increase in food cost when he rode, he ate fine when he drove
Damage@feddit.it · 1 pts · 107d
25km each way is, best case scenario, 1h per trip, in that case if public transport is not an option, yeah, I'd take the car
Lodespawn@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 107d
I think public transport at the time was a real screw around for him because his area was poorly serviced and the nearest train station was super dodgy
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 107d
Yeah I live in a city with decent public transportation, but unfortunately my neighborhood is the one that's poorly serviced, it'd take me two hours and multiple changes to get to work, it takes me 35 minutes by car and 20 by motorbike.
Of course I take the latter as often as possible, it's just better, even on fuel consumption.
I'd like to bicycle to work like I did to my previous job, but here it's just not an option, it'd take over one hour, I'd get there drenched in sweat, and risk my life multiple times.
Anivia@feddit.org · 3 pts · 107d
Yeah, ebikes are significantly more economical and ecological. The human body is very inefficient at converting calories into kinetic energy, and producing 1kcal of food has a much worse CO2 output than even burning 1kcal worth of coal. Even if you follow a vegan diet
It still beats driving a car by a long shot though
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 107d
The human body will burn calories pretty much either way, and if you let your body adjust to daily riding your resting energy use will go down. If you want to be healthy you need exercise either way. Given all that you can consider the energy required to ride a bicycle for a medium distance daily to be virtually free.
Anivia@feddit.org · 1 pts · 106d
No, that's just a lie. The only way you're gonna significantly reduce your BMR from daily bike riding is if you were a fatty and lost weight due to it, but a diet would accomplish the same job. If an untrained person starts commuting daily with their bike the exact opposite will happen, they will grow more muscles in their calves and quads, which will significantly increase the amount of calories they passively burn, and that's on top of the energy you burn while riding the bicycle.
You don't need to make up bullshit to justify commuting with a bicycle, it will absolutely increase the amount of calories you will need to eat, but that's a low price to pay for the money you save not commuting with a car, let alone the health benefits
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 106d
You are right, I was working with outdated info. Just last year there was a study that showed the body doesn't compensate metabolically for the exercise and the added calorie burn is not offset by conservation elsewhere. I can't find the source of my misconception, but I guess it was widespread enough that they ran a study to disprove it.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 58 pts · 107d
A car runs on money and makes you fat.
A bike runs on fat and saves you money.
tja@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 107d
The saving money part might be not completely true
meekah@discuss.tchncs.de · 25 pts · 107d
It's definitely possible to spend a lot on your bicycle but it is almost certainly cheaper than using and maintaining a car
Tomassci@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 107d
Even the higher-price mid-range bikes are way cheaper than the cheapest cars, and there's a lot on the bike that you can just do yourself instead of relying on a mechanic, most parts are cheaper as well, lots of bikes allow more personalization...
Bikes are the paragon of freedom Anericans think cars are.
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 107d
Time is money tho
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 4 pts · 107d
In NY, nothing beats an illegally de-limited electric bicycle. Often a regular one beats cars, especially if you are willing to run a red light here and there.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · 7 pts · 107d
And what if you are not a criminal that wages their own life?
DaGreenGobbo@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 107d
Tourists take the bus, I guess.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 2 pts · 107d
Buses, cops and ambulances get stuck in traffic too because New Yorkers don't leave a Rettungsgasse. Look in all directions before running a red light or abusing right turn priority with a U-turn in the adjacent street.
dermanus@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 106d
In cities bikes are often faster than cars. They don't get stuck in traffic and you don't have to worry about parking. On longer distances this goes away, but short urban trips are no brainers.
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 106d
Depends on the city. And the definition of city.
My city used to be a "bicycle city" before it was cool, but nowadays cars have taken over the roads and the bike infrastructure that's been created sucks, when I worked just 6km from home, car was faster even in rush hour traffic. Now work is outside the city and the bike is simply too impractical, it takes too much time and it's dangerous.
I have fond memories of working and living in the country side and going to work on my MTB through tree plantations, but alas, that's in the past.
MisterFrog@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 107d
How does this have so many upvotes? As long as it's actually possible to ride your bike in your city, the cost of buying and then maintaining a bicycle is WAY, WAY, cheaper than a car
Nighed@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 106d
It's rare to replace a car with a bike though. You replace journeys instead, so end up with a lot of the fixed(ish) costs anyway.
Saves me loads on my commute though.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 107d
Wtf are you on about? A good bike costs less than a few months insurance and gas.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · -26 pts · 107d
Good thing they are free! Wait...they aren't? And they run on fossil fuel tires?? Oops.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 10 pts · 107d
You actually can get bikes for free pretty often, especially if you've got the ability to turn a wrench.
And while modern tires probably do incorporate some fossil 'fuels' (technically not fossil fuel if you're not burning it, by the way), they don't have to. Old school tires are made from vulcanized rubber, which can be made by reacting natural rubber from a rubber tree with sulfuric acid and heat. No fossil 'fuels' involved.
Katana314@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 107d
Yeah, similarly, one could make the mistake of walking. But even sneaker treads use rubber. Same poison!
uniquethrowagay@feddit.org · 7 pts · 107d
Bikes are incredibly cheaper than cars, cars need new tires more often, car tires are way more expensive, you can make tires without fossil oil. I'm not sure I get your point. What was your point?
Kaligalis@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 107d
Bicycles have less mass than a car and therefore need less fossil fuel for their tires. Bicycles are objectively cheaper to buy, maintain, and run than a car, even if you go for the average expensive bicycle and the average cheap car. There just is no way to make the car come out on top when it's about costs.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 107d
Dumbest internet comment today. Well done!
Noobnarski@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 107d
Bike tires don't usually weigh more than 300g.
Car tires usually weigh more than 7kg and you need 4 instead of two.
The only slightest bit of an argument here could be for trains.
I also need maybe 5 specialised tools to service my bike (which is veeeery easy to do compared to doing it on a car) and those tools together cost less than 200€. Then I spend around 200€ a year or less on parts to service my bike, and I use it to go to work every day.
My car is sooooo much more expensive than that, even though I do most stuff myself.
lugal@sopuli.xyz · 16 pts · 107d
Most people pay almost twice as much
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 107d
Have you seen the cost of groceries?
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 107d
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 107d
Bout to stroll up with a peddle assist and demand free gas
Hupf@feddit.org · 2 pts · 107d
Them literally just handing you an extension cord
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 107d
Omg. So dumb. They are never going to sell any regular.
atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 107d
arent there bikes that run on gas though?
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 107d
We generally refer to those as Mopeds, at least in the US
Trebuchet@europe.pub · 2 pts · 107d
If you're on mastodon and like dad jokes, puns and thai recipes, Natasha is a good follow
acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 104d
I too pass gas freely when riding.
EfreetSK@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 107d
Source: https://tech.lgbt/@Natasha_Jay/116430077993465722
naun@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 107d
https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/58799415
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 107d
Cool, now do oil based tire prices.
zaphod@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 107d
How often do you change tyres?
NottaLottaOcelot@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 107d
You’re making perfection the enemy of good. Nobody said bikes themselves were free - everything requires some maintenance and parts.
And if we are comparing bike tires to car tires, they are still a lower volume of petroleum based rubber, and cheaper (especially given that you need two rather than four). A new bike tire is generally anywhere between $50-100, so that’s $100-200 to change the pair you are riding. And new car tires are about $150-250 depending on brand and size, so that’s $600-$1000.