It depends how you're defining it. 95% of all wavelengths that hit it being converted is impossible, because solar panels only work within certain spectral ranges, but it's theoretically possible, although technically difficult, to have 95% of all relevant wavelength photons converted into electricity.
You can game this a bit using tandem cells with layers of varying bandgaps, but even as the number of layers approaches infinity the theoretical maximum only increases to about 68%. They're also not hugely practical or cheap, obviously, and in practice they barely reach above the regular limit of 33% due to engineering constraints. There are some other ways of trying to get around it, but I don't know of any that can approach 95% efficiency.
Worth noting that this is staggeringly high efficiency in comparison to most other energy sources, given that at the end of the day all of them ultimately come from sunlight.
Ooh cool I hadn't heard of them! My understanding from the wiki page though is that the 90% efficiency refers to energy transfer efficiency within the microwave range, rather than the conversion rate from sunlight which is theorised to be about 70%. The stuff about generating power in space using solar cells then transferring it back to earth sounds awesome, though possibly a bit impractical compared to regular solar farms.
Surprisingly not! I'd have expected photosynthesis to have similar energy efficiency to man-made solar panels, but it's actually only around 11%. I suppose since leaves have more functions than just energy generation for a plant, it's not usually an evolutionary imperative to maximise efficiency. There's probably a bit of variation between different geographic regions, I'd imagine.
Ah, i meant the chloroplasts only. There's ongoing research to replicate the high efficiancy, something with a wavelength matching molecular "antenna". What was it, somewhere over 90%.
It's also way above the limit of a regular single layer solar. I think the theoretical limit was around 30% which can only be surpassed by having multiple layers like with perovskites.
i want a solar array infused with an LED array so that i can make my roof a giant compass, temperature, and clock for planes and helicopters at night. And I want my roof to flash QR codes on my roof to NGGYUNGLYD pilots. If we gonna lose the night sky to satellites i'm gonna need a bigger screen, Pete.
And the use case is only for visual appeal? Good for those who need that.
Probably can add advertisement on it to make it cheaper?
I'm fine with normal looking one. Maybe it is beneficial, as it might reduce the performance at first but might keep temperatures lower and so increases efficiency again?
Solar power is just great and it should get to a point where there is no more question about if it is worth it and will just get added to every roof that gets sun.
Personal taste doesn't matter when you have to deal with American HOAs or the German Denkmalschutz (Monument Protection Agency). This tech is a godsend.
In some cases, you are not allowed to install regular solar panel in my country. If you live near an historical monument, it can be impossible because it would clash with it. These solutions could be an alternative.
A lot of people take pride in the appearance of their house, and solar panels could totally alter the appearance of a house, especially one designed in a particular architectural style.
Yeah, make it look cooler. Solar panels still look like fancy future tech to me. I'm always reminded of the ISS. So I stand by it, they just look cool.
Solar power is just great and it should get to a point where there is no more question about if it is worth it
We are well past the point where there are any legitimate question marks over the efficiency and efficacy of solar panels. Unfortunately we don't live in a sane world we live in a world where politicians are being paid off by oil companies that are seen their industry evaporate.
The only place on earth where solar panels are probably not going to work is inside the Arctic circle where there is insufficient light for a well over half the year. But that's what the electrical grid is for you don't have to generate your power locally.
Well that's clearly nonsense. I think the highest efficiency ever recorded for a solar panel was 2.4% so 95% is definitely not right.
What they probably mean is 95% of the efficiency of a black solar cell. I.e. you don't lose too much just to keep the HOA happy. Although black slate roof tiles are actually a thing as well.
I did read the article. But I'm talking about just the new information we can gleam from the headline. Because that's the thing that's been disingenuous.
The thing is, most people with no technical background will probably get the right meaning from the headline even though it's phrased wrong. I sure did. Because when you buy solar planes, you usually compare efficiency of different products and placements, not the actual efficiency factor.
We have them in Iceland for multi tenant buildings such as blocks for handling outside repairs etc. Nobody has them for a whole street since with rules on how often the lawn needs to be moved like in the US.
I'm not allowed to replace the roofing on my house with anything other than real slate. So there are some restrictions.
Other people on the street have solar panels though so I'm guessing they're not too restrictive. The difference being that this is a government restriction rather than some arbitrary requirement from a Karen.
24 to 25% efficiency, based on a quick search. But they are talking a difference in terms and measures. While they may only convert 24%, they still produce 90 to 95% of their stated power output. In short, how fast they can charge a battery vs, how many things can they actively run.
There is 2 things that are measured in efficiency.
The first thing is as you mentioned, how much of the solar energy is absorbed. 100% would mean that all the solar energy on the surface of the cell would be absorbed.
The second thing is how much of the absorbed energy of the solar cell is converted into usable energy.
For a square meter of sun, there is about 1kW of energy, or 1000W.
If the solar panel of one square meter is efficient at 50% to absorb the solar energy, 500W would be available.
Then, if the circuitry is 90% efficient at converting the absorbed energy into usable power, you would get 450W of usable power.
The overall system efficiency is 450W/1000W, or 45%. So 45% of the solar power that hits the solar panel is usable at the output of the whole system.
This is a really watered down version of how things really work, but that should help you navigate this article.
52 Comments
plyth@feddit.org · 76 pts · 129d
95% performance of regular cells or 95% performance of turning light into electricity? It sounds like the latter but it can only be the former.
platypode@sh.itjust.works · 104 pts · 129d
All this and more, for the low low price of actually reading the article:
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de · 38 pts · 129d
Yeah, that’s a bit of a misleading headline.
CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 129d
Yea. 95% efficient panel is Nobel prize level of story, making it look like a roofing tile would not even be a bullet point in the story
davetortoise@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 128d
It's also a physical impossibility iirc
echodot@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 128d
It depends how you're defining it. 95% of all wavelengths that hit it being converted is impossible, because solar panels only work within certain spectral ranges, but it's theoretically possible, although technically difficult, to have 95% of all relevant wavelength photons converted into electricity.
davetortoise@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 128d
For a p-n junction based cell, the theoretical maximum efficiency is about 33%.
You can game this a bit using tandem cells with layers of varying bandgaps, but even as the number of layers approaches infinity the theoretical maximum only increases to about 68%. They're also not hugely practical or cheap, obviously, and in practice they barely reach above the regular limit of 33% due to engineering constraints. There are some other ways of trying to get around it, but I don't know of any that can approach 95% efficiency.
Worth noting that this is staggeringly high efficiency in comparison to most other energy sources, given that at the end of the day all of them ultimately come from sunlight.
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 128d
You could potentially get up to 90% (maybe more) efficiency with an optical recetnna. Though manufacturing one is presently out of reach.
davetortoise@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 128d
Ooh cool I hadn't heard of them! My understanding from the wiki page though is that the 90% efficiency refers to energy transfer efficiency within the microwave range, rather than the conversion rate from sunlight which is theorised to be about 70%. The stuff about generating power in space using solar cells then transferring it back to earth sounds awesome, though possibly a bit impractical compared to regular solar farms.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 128d
I think plants are pretty close?
davetortoise@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 128d
Surprisingly not! I'd have expected photosynthesis to have similar energy efficiency to man-made solar panels, but it's actually only around 11%. I suppose since leaves have more functions than just energy generation for a plant, it's not usually an evolutionary imperative to maximise efficiency. There's probably a bit of variation between different geographic regions, I'd imagine.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 128d
Ah, i meant the chloroplasts only. There's ongoing research to replicate the high efficiancy, something with a wavelength matching molecular "antenna". What was it, somewhere over 90%.
olafurp@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 128d
It's also way above the limit of a regular single layer solar. I think the theoretical limit was around 30% which can only be surpassed by having multiple layers like with perovskites.
Gladaed@feddit.org · 10 pts · 128d
The latter is physically impossible.
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 21 pts · 129d
i want a solar array infused with an LED array so that i can make my roof a giant compass, temperature, and clock for planes and helicopters at night. And I want my roof to flash QR codes on my roof to NGGYUNGLYD pilots. If we gonna lose the night sky to satellites i'm gonna need a bigger screen, Pete.
jared@mander.xyz · 4 pts · 129d
LEDs can work a bad solar panels.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 129d
*NGGYUNGLYD, you mean?
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 128d
Cheers! I have corrected it, and I have added that to my spell check dictionary.
PixTupy@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 128d
How about panels with RGB led backlight? Isn't RGB supposed to be on everything now?
zaphod@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 129d
Get panels made from material with a direct band gap like GaAs.
SomeOneWithA_PC@feddit.org · 7 pts · 129d
And the use case is only for visual appeal? Good for those who need that. Probably can add advertisement on it to make it cheaper? I'm fine with normal looking one. Maybe it is beneficial, as it might reduce the performance at first but might keep temperatures lower and so increases efficiency again? Solar power is just great and it should get to a point where there is no more question about if it is worth it and will just get added to every roof that gets sun.
9point6@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 129d
There are plenty of people who seem to only manage to conjure up "but they're ugly" as reasons to not have panels and policy supporting their adoption
Sometimes it's worth something existing simply to reduce the arguments against it
alleycat@feddit.org · 6 pts · 128d
Personal taste doesn't matter when you have to deal with American HOAs or the German Denkmalschutz (Monument Protection Agency). This tech is a godsend.
cnovel@jlai.lu · 5 pts · 128d
In some cases, you are not allowed to install regular solar panel in my country. If you live near an historical monument, it can be impossible because it would clash with it. These solutions could be an alternative.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 129d
A lot of people take pride in the appearance of their house, and solar panels could totally alter the appearance of a house, especially one designed in a particular architectural style.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 1 pts · 128d
Yeah, make it look cooler. Solar panels still look like fancy future tech to me. I'm always reminded of the ISS. So I stand by it, they just look cool.
Asetru@feddit.org · 1 pts · 128d
That's the issue right there.
prettybunnys@piefed.social · 3 pts · 129d
If they can find a way to make the panels usable and still have aesthetic appeal then they could be used for signage and shit too.
While I don’t say yay more signage I do say yay more solar, so like a lose-win
Taleya@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 129d
The solar would be used to power the signage at night.
But it would also be more easily scavengeable....
echodot@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 128d
We are well past the point where there are any legitimate question marks over the efficiency and efficacy of solar panels. Unfortunately we don't live in a sane world we live in a world where politicians are being paid off by oil companies that are seen their industry evaporate.
The only place on earth where solar panels are probably not going to work is inside the Arctic circle where there is insufficient light for a well over half the year. But that's what the electrical grid is for you don't have to generate your power locally.
echodot@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 128d
Well that's clearly nonsense. I think the highest efficiency ever recorded for a solar panel was 2.4% so 95% is definitely not right.
What they probably mean is 95% of the efficiency of a black solar cell. I.e. you don't lose too much just to keep the HOA happy. Although black slate roof tiles are actually a thing as well.
glasratz@feddit.org · 23 pts · 128d
You mean what is clearly stated in the article?
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 11 pts · 128d
Dude imagine reading the article before commenting ! Revolutionary ideas <3
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 128d
I did read the article. But I'm talking about just the new information we can gleam from the headline. Because that's the thing that's been disingenuous.
glasratz@feddit.org · 4 pts · 128d
The thing is, most people with no technical background will probably get the right meaning from the headline even though it's phrased wrong. I sure did. Because when you buy solar planes, you usually compare efficiency of different products and placements, not the actual efficiency factor.
descartador@lemmy.eco.br · 3 pts · 128d
The title is ambiguous, though
TBi@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 128d
My initial understanding was 95% of a normal panel. So not that ambiguous
descartador@lemmy.eco.br · 1 pts · 128d
You are above average
calavera@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 128d
HOA? I don't think this is such a thing in Europe, at least not in Portugal. wandering if it's a american defaultism thing
olafurp@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 128d
We have them in Iceland for multi tenant buildings such as blocks for handling outside repairs etc. Nobody has them for a whole street since with rules on how often the lawn needs to be moved like in the US.
echodot@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 128d
I'm not allowed to replace the roofing on my house with anything other than real slate. So there are some restrictions.
Other people on the street have solar panels though so I'm guessing they're not too restrictive. The difference being that this is a government restriction rather than some arbitrary requirement from a Karen.
glasratz@feddit.org · 1 pts · 128d
Though we do have a lot of places everywhere in Europe that restrict how buildings can look, often for tourism reasons.
calavera@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 128d
controlled by the government and local law, not your neighbor
glasratz@feddit.org · 1 pts · 128d
The smaller the community, the smaller the difference. But at least there's no HOA in addition to that.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 128d
24 to 25% efficiency, based on a quick search. But they are talking a difference in terms and measures. While they may only convert 24%, they still produce 90 to 95% of their stated power output. In short, how fast they can charge a battery vs, how many things can they actively run.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 128d
You meant 24%? And i have seen news about 32% years ago, although with concentrating lenses as part of the cell.
echodot@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 128d
Looking online I've seen claims up to 50% but I've also seen lots of discussion online about how those numbers can't be relied on.
whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 128d
what does it mean actually?
100% would mean it absorbs the sun completely?
Croquette@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 128d
There is 2 things that are measured in efficiency.
The first thing is as you mentioned, how much of the solar energy is absorbed. 100% would mean that all the solar energy on the surface of the cell would be absorbed.
The second thing is how much of the absorbed energy of the solar cell is converted into usable energy.
For a square meter of sun, there is about 1kW of energy, or 1000W.
If the solar panel of one square meter is efficient at 50% to absorb the solar energy, 500W would be available.
Then, if the circuitry is 90% efficient at converting the absorbed energy into usable power, you would get 450W of usable power.
The overall system efficiency is 450W/1000W, or 45%. So 45% of the solar power that hits the solar panel is usable at the output of the whole system.
This is a really watered down version of how things really work, but that should help you navigate this article.
9bananas@feddit.org · 1 pts · 128d
i guess, which is why that's not a thing.
it would have to convert the photon directly into an electron for 100% efficiency;
in other words it would require straight-up magic!
undefined@lemmy.hogru.ch · 1 pts · 129d