inspired by lemmitors at https://lemmy.ml/post/49343381
any guy in it just for women to wear skimpier clothing should probably be investigated.
western women rights
inspired by lemmitors at https://lemmy.ml/post/49343381
any guy in it just for women to wear skimpier clothing should probably be investigated.
142 Comments
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 86 pts · 46d
Me, a hijabi, opening that thread for all of 10 seconds
velma@sh.itjust.works · 48 pts · 46d
I'm sure there will be well-balanced and nuanced discussion from the men of Lemmy on choice feminism and women's oppression! I'm sure of it! /s
Ariselas@piefed.ca · -7 pts · 46d
But it is a nuanced issue that requires consideration of multiple truths and sometimes contradicting world views.
velma@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 46d
Yes, something that the men of Lemmy are known for when it comes to discussing these types of issues. Notorious even.
Is the /s not a well known indicator of sarcasm?
Ariselas@piefed.ca · 7 pts · 46d
we could expect more form our communities, but I know what you are saying
velma@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 46d
Oh believe me, I'm aware. I'm not the one to constantly disappoint on these topics, I'm just observing what happens here.
This topic would be much more interesting to discuss in a community with more diversity.
HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works · -8 pts · 46d
velma@sh.itjust.works · 23 pts · 46d
Well thanks for announcing to the class that you have an opinion that you refuse to share.
Wooo, that very first mod comment on your mod log is enough for me hahaha
Fucking yikes, dude
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 46d
HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works · -7 pts · 46d
You proved my point, no discussion
deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml · 27 pts · 46d
Don’t you know you’re oppressed! Please call me a white knight please!
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 46d
there is such an amazing video by Lady Izdihar that would be extremely relevant but I can't find it 😔
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 46d
Lady Izdihar rules.
DScratch@sh.itjust.works · 77 pts · 46d
“I can’t go outside without wearing a head covering.”
“Head coverings are now illegal.”
“Now I can’t go outside.”
This makes the world more fair and equitable.
Here’s a wild idea, instead of making clothing illegal, why don’t we make coercing people into a manner of dress illegal?
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 46d
I'm having difficulty parsing this. Are you saying "we should ban religions from coercive headgear" or "we shouldn't ban clothing"? Cause those are contradictory positions and I'm not certain what you're trying to say (which is probably entirely on me)
velma@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 46d
We shouldn't police women's clothing.
DScratch@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 46d
Ban anyone for coercing someone into or out of clothing.
Granted, I haven’t put a major amount of thought into the nuance, but the idea of making it a sin for some people to legally go outside is absurd.
The approach of these laws makes it so the victims of mistreatment are the ones breaking the law.
It’s like making it illegal to be homeless or illegal to have been mugged. It’s fucking outlandish.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 46d
Yeah, but that doesn't really clarify, though. Does that mean that a woman could wear a hijab or burqa under your rule?
DScratch@sh.itjust.works · 22 pts · 46d
If they want to, yes.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 45d
My mother was undergoing some weird medical treatment that made her skin super sensitive to UV radiation. She was in full sleeves and a vest and gloves and a hat and facescarf and everything covered everywhere. I sincerely recommended to her a hijab or burqa because it would make going out easier. A couple main articles of clothing, maybe sunglasses and gloves, and she would be fine. Unfortunately the religious element of it put her off too much, but clothes are clothes.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 45d
We shouldn’t ban clothing. We should ban the coercion of anyone to wear particular clothing.
There’s no contradiction here.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
Exactly. I knew a woman in college who wore hijab. Apparently in high school she didn't, and her family always treated it as her choice. She chose it because of the racism and anti muslim mistreatment she faced making her embrace it as a fuck you to the mistreatment. It made sense to me, though it saddened me how much harassment she had faced. How she dressed wasn't my problem, and I was always more focused on the brain under her hijab than the hair.
I dislike such cultural expressions of modesty, and I worry about cultural pressure towards them. They remind me too much of my baptist cousins. But I firmly oppose the government or society intervening in how people dress. So long as every person old enough to choose for themselves is permitted to, my opinions are my problem.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
Yes we sit here in our western comfort zone judging Muslims. We think: the women shouldn’t have to cover up to avoid inflaming the sexual passions of men. The men should just control themselves! Meanwhile western women are hammered by the male gaze all day long and assaulted with sexual violence and killed all too commonly. Yet we somehow can’t imagine why a reasonable woman might actually want to cover up, and consider that safer, more freeing. And then we go and ban her cover. It’s just gob smacking blind stupid.
Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 44d
You say that as if covering up made a women safer and not just as much under the 'male gaze'. Muslim women are also sexually assaulted, sometimes with the pertetrator knowing that she would face more reprecussions than he would if she complained.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
I say that as if she knows better than either of us and it’s up to her.
bryophile@lemmy.zip · 38 pts · 46d
Everyone believes they're choosing freely, especially when they're choosing what their culture taught them to want.
ILikeToMeow@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 45d
That applies to literally everyone and doesn't justify anything, men are no less or more immune, and the choice should be the one who is or would be wearing or not wearing a given piece of clothing on whether they do or don't wear it. Neither men nor the state should be taking the agency for women to decide for themselves what to or to not wear.
At best this makes your comment unrelated, random, and pointless, as it says nothing. But we both know you are actually providing cover for the misogynist view that women shouldn't be able to decide for themselves. It's not exactly subtle, not even slightly, in fact it is infuriating. So please, look deep inside yourself, reflect, and STOP!
bryophile@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 45d
Yes you're absolutely right, anyone of any gender should be able to wear or not wear what they want.
My point was more philosophical. It is indeed random and pointless, but I find it interesting to think of things like this. You may not find this interesting or read something misogynist into this, which was definitely far from what I meant so I'm sorry for offending you.
ILikeToMeow@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 44d
Please consider the context and read the room in the future, (or in this case the OP picture for which the thread is about) the time and place of such commentary also changes it's apparent character. Water under the bridge. 🙃
bryophile@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 44d
The room was empty when I got here, so everyone behind me should have read the room
gumball4933@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
They are not deciding for themselves. That’s the point. Although banning is also not the solution either, I agree.
PattyMcB@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 46d
I generally wear what's most comfortable for me. Sometimes I'll "dress up" for stuff where it's socially still "required" like job interviews or weddings, but even that is rare for me.
HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 46d
Yet you don't wear 16th century Shakespearean clothes to work because you don't live in 16th century England
PattyMcB@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 46d
If they were available and comfortable, I might. Where the hell am i supposed to get them?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
oh my friend! Evangeline's (the costume store in Sacramento) just reopened! I can't speak to comfortable but I can speak to where.
PattyMcB@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 45d
I live on the east coast, so I'll just stick to the stuff I can get locally. It's comfortable.
Edit: Thank you, though. If I ever find myself in Sacramento, I'll have to look the place up
velma@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 46d
I actually had a few gowns in such a design. They were very fun to wear!
Ariselas@piefed.ca · 6 pts · 46d
You must be at a boring workplace, we have several goths and one lady who daily wears renaissance era clothing and is big on renaissance fairs and medieval combat.
If it's not a health and safety risk, who cares. I mean flip flops and a budgie smuggler are not appropriate to wear on a factory floor.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 45d
my favorite job, favorite boss, our dress code was "if you can get here without getting arrested it's fine". the day i showed up dressed like i was going to the beach (because guess what i was doing at noon) the boss came back and said "okay, new rule, if i have a client coming in you need to at least have pants and shoes on"
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
please don't talk like you know me
velma@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 46d
mlg@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 45d
Lol that thread is a cesspool but I'm glad in classic lemmy fashion, its not shadow banned or locked.
I don't want to add more fuel to the flames but it's a case example of why I don't take the EU seriously when it comes to free speech laws or claims of "secularity".
France and UK were out here blocking Bosnia from arming itself during the genocide carried out by Serbia because they didn't want a muslim country to exist in Europe.
feddit banned luigi and pro gaza content because it's apparently illegal to discuss those topics in Germany, as if an internet forum talking about foreign news needs to be regulated by the government.
It's not as bad as reddit, but there are some seriously god awful comments on that post trying to justify poorly disguised ethnic filtering laws.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 45d
It's like making it illegal for women to wear makeup and thinking you are "freeing them of cultural values originating from patriarchy."
I personally would like governments to NOT force a specific gender to look a specific way.
philanthropicoctopus@thelemmy.club · 19 pts · 45d
What a rabbithole to go down.
I agree no one should have the right tell someone else what to wear, but that doesn't mean it isn't a tool of oppression in other cultures
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 45d
Brown people culture bad amiright?
philanthropicoctopus@thelemmy.club · 3 pts · 44d
I absolutely did not say that, nor do I believe that in the slightest
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 45d
You have no idea about other cultural norms and attires. Is the western man being oppressed when he has to wear a tie and suit to the office in order to keep his job? Do we free him from this oppression by ostracizing him or making it illegal for wearing a tie?
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 45d
Suits are expensive and unnecessary. Some people (i.e. autistic) might have sensory difficulties when they wear them. If someone is vegan, most suits aren't so it further restricts what they can wear and they have to worry more about differences in look due to the stricter dress code. Fortunately, being restricted only while working certain jobs isn't as bad as being restricted in all public spaces.
No
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 44d
But is he being oppressed?
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 44d
Yes
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 44d
Alright! So we agree that ostracizing people or making it illegal for them to wear what they wear is not going to lead to a more free society?
sudoer777@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 44d
I already said that
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 44d
Then I don't know what you were trying to say with your original comment other than agreeing with me?
philanthropicoctopus@thelemmy.club · 8 pts · 44d
You know, this is a fair point, but there's a few differences.
Not all jobs require a suit, there's a lot of choice (you could get through life never wearing one). Its also only required during working hours. Not around the clock. Women have been killed over these expectations. Its not the same.
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 44d
Is that really what you think muslims support?? Can you not conceive of people wanting to wear a hijab?? And even if not, why is it so hard to accept that it's just a fact when they say it??
Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 44d
I can conceive of an individual woman wanting to wear one. However every woman I have known who wears one does because she must if she is to follow her religion and her society's norms and her family's dictates which would indicate that she doesn't actually have the choice not to. I tend to believe that Muslim woman have a choice when they choose not to wear one because they often face abuse from other Muslims.
Ironrod@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 44d
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 44d
"they" are just a gray mass to you aren't they? "They" clearly aren't individuals in your eyes but a cudgel to wield against west asians under the pretense of human rights. Hundreds of millions of women all the same to you because they arent european...
Ironrod@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 44d
Oh, sorry. Let me try that again. Hijab wearing women are forced to wear hijabs because their religion calls for them to be killed if they're not wearing a hijab, some hijab wearing women would like to wear a hijab but other hijab wearing women would prefer not too, although they're still forced to if they would like to stay alive.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/world/articles/iranian-singer-sentenced-74-lashes-191112823.html
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 44d
this is just wrong.
jaykrown@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 45d
I think all adult women should be able to wear whatever they want.
Mrkawfee@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 45d
Americans scrapped Roe vs Wade but think bikini = equality
electric_nan@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 44d
If you're one of those people super against hijab, do a say, duckduckgo image search for "women in headscarves". You will see many cultures represented. They aren't all Muslim, even. Which ones are 'bad' and which 'good'? Would you also ban Orthodox Christians/Jews, or Hindu women from covering their hair? Rasta women?
GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 45d
A Turkish acquaintance of mine from a long time ago introduced me to the idea of reform Islam. I didn't know that it existed, but she was a practitioner. She didn't wear a hijab, she swore when she felt like it, and she wore shorts when it was hot outside. Her prayers were usually sitting quietly and humming to herself when her phone alarm went off. Whenever we did an art project, she'd do this big long prayer to dedicate it.
Nice girl. Hope she's doing okay.
Grapho@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 45d
Idk how it's so difficult for westerners to understand that not all Muslims who consider themselves practicing Muslims observe all parts of the faith. There's so many Catholics who disregard lent, hardly anybody listens to the dietary restrictions, there's almost none who acknowledge Jesus' teachings on wealth. Do all Catholics choose not to use condoms? Do all of them have the same opinion on abortion?
But I do realize it's part of looking at the out-group as a monolith at best and a hive mind at worst.
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 44d
I think a lot of the reddit type atheists are so far removed from religion in general they only view religious people as a cartoonishly idealized strawman that has no thoughts other than what their book says and their preacher teaches, who every second of every day is thinking only about god and how to be more godly and who believes the simplest interpretation of their religion. I have encountered it quite a few times as well since my username "outs" me as christian.
It's that plus for muslims the sheer racism that makes for a particularly potent mixture of arrogance and ignorance resulting in this weird "white savior thats sneering at their lessers" postings
chronotron@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 44d
it's perfectly fine to judge the members of a group that follows a set of texts by what those texts say
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 44d
Because there only ever is one interpretation of any text and religious people famously all agree on it.
Because everyone who professes to a given religion has access to, reads and observes the texts and definitely doesn't just go with whatever everyone else is doing and saying and getting their religious belief through osmosis.
Because different sects and cultures don't weigh some parts heavier than others and local cultural practices and superstitions play no role in how people observe or ignore the text.
Because the text is the only thing that defines a religion and there is nothing else to it.
And of course because you definitely understand the text by just skimming it until you find whatever verse lets you feel euphoric through enlightenment by your own intelligence.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 45d
This is goofy. Not one of us can wear whatever we want in USA (and many other countries). All sorts of rules on dress.
Dress codes for restaurants (jackets and ties required)... dress codes for schools (uniforms)... dress codes for jobs (uniforms)... dress codes for gas stations (no shirts, no shoes, no service)... dress codes for banks (can't cover your face or wear sunglasses)...
This is a false issue, used to inflame the dumbest among us. Sadly, it still works.
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 44d
Right, so why all the pearl-clutching over head coverings?
sunsofold@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 44d
Perhaps because the other dress code constraints are for more universally accepted reasons while the question of things like the hijab/niqab are tied to an inherent contradiction within one of the standard political camps, disrupting the placement of the (un)acceptability line. Wearing a uniform is a sign of responsibility. (If you wear the fuel station attendednts' uniform, you are responsible for the fuel station, etc.) Wearing a minimum quality of clothing is related to the service provided. (Showing up to a black tie restaurant in board shorts and flip flops 'lowers the tone' of the restaurant, which is often more the product being sold than the actual food. In that kind of restaurant, you are paying more for the exclusivity of the space than the chef's produce.) However, Muslim women's headjoys are more fraught because they simultaneously occupy two symbolic spaces, one as a symbol of Islam itself, which is coded as evil by one broad sector of politics and, because of that, something to be protected by the opposition, but the other as a symbol of Muslim patriarchy, which has the exact opposite coding by the standard broad political binary. Resolving the hypocrisy would require abandoning one set of symbols or the other and taking a position currently held by the opposition. Most people aren't willing to do that.
huey_m@reddthat.com · -3 pts · 44d
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 44d
Type anything negative about Israel and the entire comment section is people saying how this doesn't representat Judaism even when nobody mentioned it
But type something negative about Muslims and all the Reddit Athesists get in line to dunk on them and explain how evil they are. Gleefully discussing about publicly discriminating their clothing.
https://tariqacknickulous.substack.com/p/arabs-and-muslims-the-real-victims
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 44d
dan@literature.cafe · 7 pts · 45d
Hijab is not a choice, but a strong form of operession on women.
ILikeToMeow@lemmy.ml · 27 pts · 45d
Women need the agency to decide for themselves, and not have the decision made for them by men, or the state. The only way any clothing is really oppressive is if it isn't a choice, and in that way "not being allowed to wear" is the same as "being forced to wear". It seems like you are defending the choice being taken from women under the mask of pretending to support the choice being given to them, by pointing to something not even being argued about as the covering mask, like a strawman.
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 45d
If women were choosing to wear hijab with out the cultural, familial or state pressure you’d see women doing exactly that from other parts of the world where Islam isn’t enforcing it, you don’t see that because it’s not a free choice being made, acquiescing to pressure isn’t actually a choice.
ILikeToMeow@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 45d
With or without culture it is not your decision to make O Enlightened Savior!/s This thread is so full of poorly hidden sexist and racist nonsense that it is sickening. The western world is not the savior of the world, it is it's oppressor, and the oppressor's feigned concern while it eye's those resources of the oppressed licking it's lips, can only be inauthentic from such a position, clean your own house before trying to use the level of cleanness of someone else's house as some kind of excuse.
electric_nan@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 45d
Wherever you find Muslims in the world, you will find someone wearing hijab. If you punish women for wearing it, you are not better than those who punish them for not wearing it.
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 45d
It’s extremely rare outside of countries that don’t enforce it, the Muslim women I know who still choose to wear hijab are from strict families. I have quite a few Muslim friends, most of whom are women, most of whom are not hijabis and don’t support the practice as public policy and find the pressure to wear it when they go home to be extremely uncomfortable. There’s a reason they feel that way, there’s a reason Muslim women who emigrate tend to stop wearing it, because they were pressured to do so it wasn’t a free choice. Is it 100% obviously no but frankly the exception proves the rule here
electric_nan@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 45d
Do you think it's possible that Muslim émigrés might feel social pressure in their new homes not to wear a hijab? I've heard quite a few women say they wear it for themselves as an expression of their faith. I can't very well discount that possibility. Of course there are all sorts of social and familial pressures (and norms) that we all face. Many of which are largely taken for granted by those affected, even me and you!
SirHery@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 45d
But what if.. it is? It very much could be, just like nuns clothing.
macaw_dean_settle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 44d
LOL. Yeah, the catholic church has never been oppressive. Wow.
SirHery@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 44d
That is actually what i wanted to get at 😅
nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf · 7 pts · 45d
It is a type of clothing that many women consciously choose and desire to wear. Some countries mandate it, but it is not much less rational than a mandate to cover chest and genitals in christian culture countries.
IronBird@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
there are plenty of muslim countries that ban burkas/some of the other extreme coverings, all anyone in the west should need to know to support it
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 45d
Really wish I had that lady izdihar video right now... dude's as confident as he is wrong...
Zerush@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 46d
hamid@crazypeople.online · 24 pts · 46d
In the 1971 pic those on the top are bazaari, women of the rich merchant class who are the ones that paid to crush the student socialist rebellion and bring in the Ayatollah from Qom.
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 46d
Womens rights is when literacy rate is 20%
Yeah ok.
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 20 pts · 46d
Womens rights is when 19% child mortality rate
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 46d
Oppression is when life expectancy go up
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 45d
@Jabril@hexbear.net
Something I notice about all these spaces. When I post facts about Islamic resistance, instead of people asking something "wow thats actually incredible, do you know how they did this incredible thing?" We end up stuck in a pattern of having literally the same conversations trying to explain basic concepts.
I know that I'm impressed when I see these statistics. Maybe thats because hijab made me stupid and oppressed 🤪 🫠
nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf · -6 pts · 45d
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 45d
"Democracies" and you put Japan, S Korea, and the zionist child-killing cancer on it.
nitroemdash@lemmy.wtf · -7 pts · 45d
Does Japan not have a functioning democracy? And what's wrong with Korea?
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 45d
You see, a democracy 😇 is when a country is operating as a forward military base for the US empire. 15 military bases and 55,000 US troops in Japan and 28,000 US troops in S Korea are just there to protect democracy 😇 from authoritarian China 😡 And DPRK 😡
And fake settler colony that has been committing genocide with US-made weapons since its invention is also very good democracy 😇
Anyways. Comparing health outcomes of countries that are economic beneficiaries of imperialist looting with a country under siege from imperialism is not making the point you think it is making.
Please take your zionism and leave.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 45d
If you're going to say Iraq and Pakistan are dictatorships then you'd have to be an unashamed hypocrite to say Japan, functionality a one party state, isn't.
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 46d
This is framing of women in western clothing as more progressive vs women in hijab/chador is incredibly racist. It relies on Islamophobic stereotypes that play Islam as a less advanced civilization when compared to the rest. Please do not forget that the Iranian revolution that got rid of the shah was an internal, peoples revolution against a hostile empires marionette. The ayatollah was the synthesis of contradictions inherent to Iranian society and depicting current Iranian society as regressive compared to the Iranian society under the shah is effectively saying that westerners "know better" what the Iranian people need than the Iranian people themselves. This is racist. Whatever point you want to make against theocracy is lost in all the racist baggage that comes with the image.
HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 46d
Not discussing the racism part but the Iranian revolution was actually two-folds, like the Russian revolution. The first revolution was brought by a vast array of people, from islamists to communists. Many people hoped to keep their progressive way of life and to get political freedom on top if it. Way they got is a second revolution in the form of a swift consolidation of Khomeini's power and a theocracy, with political assassinations and vice squads.
ILikeToMeow@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 45d
What ever problems the Iranians have is their own to figure out and solve unless they explicitly ask for help, and certainly not from Imperialist Liberals from the Global North playing white savior for the "poor, helpless, primitive SaVaGeS" in the form of more Western bombs dropping on their Childrens heads to "free" them (from this mortal coil) like you're doing them a favor and should thank you for it. /s
CyroSignal@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
Civil rights according to liberals :
fxdave@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 45d
You are looking for the word "conservatives"
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 45d
Conservatives don't need their consent manufactured to go bomb people. This is for liberals. This is to make them believe that they need to save people by bombing them.
macaw_dean_settle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
No, I have never needed this. Your boogieman, "the liberal" is made up. I don't know where you got this idea from.
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 44d
Literally every foreign engagement since Iraq
fxdave@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 44d
You are having an imaginary enemy that you call as "liberals" which is the cause of all bad things. You can hate liberals, but please first know what does it mean to be liberal. Liberal means liberalism like, or somebody liking liberalism. Which is associated with capitalism.
You are not using the right word. It's like saying you hate dogs because they fly above you and shit on your clothes. That's the wrong animal. It's just dumb.
CyroSignal@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
Because liberals are left-wing or right-wing when it suits them.
fxdave@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 44d
Left and right is also country/era dependent. It still says nothing.
CyroSignal@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 43d
Liberals in my country often echo the same themes as the right-wing.
vantablack@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 45d
i'm so happy i wasn't born in one of those misogynistic shitholes
america may suck but at least i can dress as slutty as i want here
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 45d
a) that really depends on where in amerikkka you are
b) this is exactly about women dressing up as slutty as they want which might include not at all
c) claiming that the US is not a misogynistic shithole is absolutely laughable racist arrogance
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
I think this is post is also about places like France trying to dictate that Muslim women can't wear hijabs in certain places (namely pools).
SulaymanF@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 45d
SulaymanF@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
My mistake, I misread this and thought you were arguing for the opposite.
mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 45d
The whole idea of wearing a piece of clothing for some god is cringe as fuck.
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 19 pts · 45d
Cringe must of course be eradicated by the state.
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 45d
Calling what others like to do "cringe" is the cringiest thing of them all
Aeri@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 42d
My ultimate answer is that I feel internally conflicted and don't know what to think anymore.
I don't like when oppressive governments are bad to women. But I'm not super worldly so...
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 45d
Fuck clothes. Like, FUCK CHOTHES! Do y'all think that's the most pressing issue of our times?!?!?
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 45d
Womens clothes are an incredibly easy litmus test. It's so easy to check if someones "feminism" extends to trans women and muslim women unconditionally.
rishado@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 45d
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 44d
Did you know that in Iran the state subsidizes gender affirming care?
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 45d
Thank goodness the adults are in the room telling us that only one subject can be discussed in the world at a time
Leave the thread. Shut the fuck up. Do some self crit.
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 45d
Filthy liberal, kids are dying right now in Gaza. The West is a lost cause.
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 44d
https://lemmy.ml/post/49447631/26460710
HOLY SHIT WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A THING THAT ISN'T GAZA
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 44d
Nothing is more important than Gaza
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 44d
Cuba? Sudan? Lebanon?
Global warming?
Respond to the original criticism. Just because something is the most important doesn't mean literally nothing else can be discussed. Even things that are less important. Like the completely unrelated subject of racism towards muslims.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 44d
Got it. Religious freedom as practiced in west is great. Can we move on to more advance topics now?
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 44d
What the hell are you smoking??? Try walking around with a khimar in east germany e.g.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 44d
Try wearing red in crips territory. What youre talking about isnt related to religious freedom as adopted in western cultures.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 45d
I am ready to get my next ban for linking the paradox of tolerance.
This is not the gotchya you wish it was.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 45d
If you mean it how I think you do, then you very much deserve it.
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 45d
What do you think is the intolerance here that one needs to be intolerant of?
rishado@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 44d
So you're just openly advocating for being intolerant of Islam?
chronotron@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 44d
why should one be made to tolerate an idealogy that says all who don't follow it should face eternal conscious torment?
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 44d
It doesn't though? Famously non-muslims can get into heaven by living a virtuous life?? I had so many muslims tell me that it's all good we pray to the same god, or that in the end it's up to the all-knowing and merciful judge. People who say shit like you have so obviously not spent time with muslims it's bonkers
chronotron@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
i'm an exmuslim out for a drive with my muslim family as i type this. that's something only for people who never heard of islam.
chronotron@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
this is also not considering what falls under the umbrellas of vices and virtues
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 44d
Idk what to tell you, I grew up in a muslim majority country and this is my experience with Islam. I have never met someone who said "all who don’t follow it should face eternal conscious torment". No sorry I have, "fellow" christians...
Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca · -3 pts · 44d
KimBongUn420@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 44d
How about the state not forcing a dresscode at all?
Forcing a dresscode on women is human rights. You heard it here first folks
What no theory does to a mf
Objection@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 44d
Jesus Christ do y'all come out of the woodwork for this. Blathering on about "great replacement" type shit, literally indistinguishable from the type of stuff you'd see on Fox News.
In fact, if you educated your racist ass about actual facts and history, there have been plenty of progressive Islamic societies, they just tended to get overthrown by the CIA. The more fundamentalist tendencies were promoted as more reliably anti-communist.
The notion that Western societies are in any danger whatsoever of turning to Islamic extremism is completely, laughably absurd, a racist, far-right conspiracy theory. The idea that women dressing a certain way would cause that is on par with people who say that gay people cause hurricanes.
Go back to Reddit with that shit, you are not welcome here.
bigmamoth@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 45d
Nobody was ever kill for wearing hijab A lot were killed for taking him off. Your false equivalence is revolting.
mathemachristian@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 45d
islamophobic murders exist and people absolutely get attacked and harassed for wearing a hijab. You ignoring the racism in your own country in order to brow-beat a region under constant attack under the guise of "human rights" is what's revolting.
bigmamoth@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 44d
If I get attack wearing a cross around my neck is it automatically christianophobic ? It s not and it s highly dismissive and dishonest to pretend so. Also accord yourself on the point that I'm talking about religion not race.