If your system is secure, updating it can only make it insecure. If that is your one and only priority, you have to review updates before applying them, and since you have thoroughly investigated your entire stack up to this update and that version also has your real-world testing behind it, you're probably not going to apply most updates until some other priority comes along or you discover a previously unknown vulnerability.
I mean, yes, if you can guarantee that all your software stack in 100% secure. In reality this is unfeasible on even mathematically impossible to do formally (reducible to the halting problem). So while bugs keep being found in things like the Linux kernel (naturally, nothing is immune to oversight), and they're always going to be, keep your software up to date.
If security is the one and only priority, you wouldn't be running a goddamn desktop environment and all that other baggage. You absolutely would be auditing your entire stack. Because security is the one and only priority. I didn't pose the hypothetical, but that's the necessary consequence.
even mathematically impossible to do formally (reducible to the halting problem).
Nah, if the programs are not arbitrary (and I hope they're not, considering that you chose them) then it doesn't reduce to that. But you are right that it is not feasible for most industries and he is right that in some industries it is not only feasible but required.
i recently found out that i was running 5 year old graphics drivers, and the reason i found out was that a newish (less than 5 yo) game kept crashing a few minutes after startup, with no exception. turns out updating your drivers does sometimes matter
Graphics drivers are strange, unlike all other drivers where the driver is written and then the software can use the interface, with graphics drivers the drivers get changed after the software is released to make it work better or at all.
Imagine making sofware that is broken and then just waiting for the drivers to fix it.
interesting how the post doesn't mention windows but the replies just assume, i guess that is Lemmy reflex, i have the experience mentioned on the meme with all sorts of software
Similar reaction to memes about modern software being slow and bloated where linux users in the comments have a smug circlejerk about using linux like it magically changes how the same damn programs and webpages run. I find that very cringe and I say that as a NixOS btw user myself.
I had to toss my OnePlus 9 because of this. The cell radio stopped working and the only way to revert the upgrade was to factory reset. My phone is used for two-factor authentication for work, so I can't be having downtime because I'm busy doing QA for your shitty phone.
Windows 10 extended support on my main PC: if I have nothing better to do in the moment, I'll update before Windows picks the most inconvenient time to do it for me.
Windows 11: I almost never wake this laptop. When I do, it's always downloading and installing updates, running hot and at full tilt. Miserable POS.
TrueNAS: there's an update?
Home Assistant: maybe once every month or every other month, but only after perusing the change logs and checking against the breaking changes list.
Android: leave the update notification in the tray until I get home on my Wi-Fi, forget about it until I see it again the next day when I'm away from Wi-Fi again, rinse and repeat.
Edit:
Firefox desktop: when Firefox starts refusing to load web pages
Honestly, of all the things I have to update, I find Firefox the most painful, firstly because of the suspension of functional browsing if I ignore it long enough (there's enough apps out there that update cleanly at launch that I feel like that should be the norm instead of forcing an end to a session), and secondly because updates have wiped my tabs on two occasions. I successfully recovered my tabs from a backed-up session file once, but completely lost them on the other occasion.
boss has this on her pc. put it on after she did accidentally "lose" all her tabs once (she keeps many open and restores session on re-launch). she hasn't since. and it's been years.
This has mostly affected me on my work PC. I just tried installing it to find out IT blocks adding new extensions now. :(
I'll just have to be extra careful not to reflexively close Firefox if my tabs don't show up, and make sure to make a backup of the old session file before restarting.
Not saying you should have to do this but it might be worth checking if you can store ur current tabs. Maybe some kind of sigterm catch or a cron that regularly queries the active tabs
I'm still scared every time I have to update something, so I try to avoid updates if possible.
Most of the time when I had to update Windows or some software, something would break (and no previous bug would be fixed) and I would have to spend a whole day trying to fix the stupid issue.
TBH, I don't even remember if an update ever fixed something for me (but it probably happened at least once).
49 Comments
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 55 pts · 52d
Why I don't update software:
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 28 pts · 52d
Why I do update software:
voidsignal@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 52d
What if I told you with each Windows update, Microslop hacks you a bit more
HuePony@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 52d
What if I told you Linux btw
voidsignal@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 52d
I'd say you're right
affenlehrer@feddit.org · 4 pts · 52d
It's a gamble though unless you only do security updates. New features might bring new security issues.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 52d
If your system is secure, updating it can only make it insecure. If that is your one and only priority, you have to review updates before applying them, and since you have thoroughly investigated your entire stack up to this update and that version also has your real-world testing behind it, you're probably not going to apply most updates until some other priority comes along or you discover a previously unknown vulnerability.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 11 pts · 52d
The Internet has been an adversarial environment since at least 1988
Thanks to recent AI advances, new security vulnerabilities are being found at a crazy pace in all layers of the stack, from firmware to GUI.
Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 49d
Kinda weird graphic. If year one is 2016, shouldnt year ten be 2025? Because the legend says its 2026.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 2 pts · 49d
my bad, 10 should have been 2025
fizzle@quokk.au · 6 pts · 52d
This "logic" overlooks a number of issues.
Firstly, no system is "secure", only more so or less so given a specific threat model.
Secondly, a system can become less secure without any changes, as exploits are discovered.
Opisek@piefed.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 52d
I mean, yes, if you can guarantee that all your software stack in 100% secure. In reality this is unfeasible on even mathematically impossible to do formally (reducible to the halting problem). So while bugs keep being found in things like the Linux kernel (naturally, nothing is immune to oversight), and they're always going to be, keep your software up to date.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 52d
If security is the one and only priority, you wouldn't be running a goddamn desktop environment and all that other baggage. You absolutely would be auditing your entire stack. Because security is the one and only priority. I didn't pose the hypothetical, but that's the necessary consequence.
tomalley8342@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 52d
Nah, if the programs are not arbitrary (and I hope they're not, considering that you chose them) then it doesn't reduce to that. But you are right that it is not feasible for most industries and he is right that in some industries it is not only feasible but required.
renzhexiangjiao@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 52d
i recently found out that i was running 5 year old graphics drivers, and the reason i found out was that a newish (less than 5 yo) game kept crashing a few minutes after startup, with no exception. turns out updating your drivers does sometimes matter
Noobnarski@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 52d
Graphics drivers are strange, unlike all other drivers where the driver is written and then the software can use the interface, with graphics drivers the drivers get changed after the software is released to make it work better or at all.
Imagine making sofware that is broken and then just waiting for the drivers to fix it.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 52d
hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app · 21 pts · 52d
AmyAye@nord.pub · 33 pts · 52d
3 years have passed....
"I should probably apt-get update..."
KaRunChiy@fedia.io · 18 pts · 52d
Me forgetting to update archlinux until i try to install something new and realize no mirrors carry that outdated version
tdawg@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 52d
Funny. arch is the reason I started updating every morning when I first sit down
thebestaquaman@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 52d
This makes me tremble. I cannot imagine starting every day with breaking some obscure tool, pipeline, or tool chain just for the hell of it
idiomaddict@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 52d
Some people say they like a cold shower, but nothing wakes me up in the morning like a nice cold glass of fluorine.
Katana314@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 49d
Finally relented to an upgrade to get new drivers and stop Resident Evil Requiem from freezing.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 2 pts · 52d
The same applies to my phone
idiomaddict@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 52d
That’s roughly my proportion for iOS updates.
You were talking about Macs, right? /s
hoohoohoot@fedinsfw.app · 1 pts · 51d
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 52d
expatriado@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 52d
interesting how the post doesn't mention windows but the replies just assume, i guess that is Lemmy reflex, i have the experience mentioned on the meme with all sorts of software
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 52d
Currently using CachyOS with KDE, that small ass update icon with a red ! have the same effect on me
taiyang@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 52d
That was my exact thinking too; I update because it's red and not green. That, and pacman goes waka waka waka.
Martineski@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 52d
Similar reaction to memes about modern software being slow and bloated where linux users in the comments have a smug circlejerk about using linux like it magically changes how the same damn programs and webpages run. I find that very cringe and I say that as a NixOS btw user myself.
Ghoelian@piefed.social · 2 pts · 51d
I mean it sure does help if the OS you're running this software on isn't also a bloated mess.
But yeah unfortunately there's so much needlessly slow software out there, that it probably doesn't make that much of a difference anymore.
tauonite@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 52d
Because Windows software often include self-updaters because Windows doesn't update your software all at once for you
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 52d
I did this on my phone recently. Big mistake.
Fuck oneplus. Never buy this trash.
brb@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 52d
Get LineageOS. It's fabulous for oneplus phones
scops@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 52d
I had to toss my OnePlus 9 because of this. The cell radio stopped working and the only way to revert the upgrade was to factory reset. My phone is used for two-factor authentication for work, so I can't be having downtime because I'm busy doing QA for your shitty phone.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 52d
Did they do it AGAIN? Or did you just now get the Oneplus OxygenOS to OPPO ColorOS shift which made their phones horrible a few years ago?
officermike@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 52d
Windows 10 extended support on my main PC: if I have nothing better to do in the moment, I'll update before Windows picks the most inconvenient time to do it for me.
Windows 11: I almost never wake this laptop. When I do, it's always downloading and installing updates, running hot and at full tilt. Miserable POS.
TrueNAS: there's an update?
Home Assistant: maybe once every month or every other month, but only after perusing the change logs and checking against the breaking changes list.
Android: leave the update notification in the tray until I get home on my Wi-Fi, forget about it until I see it again the next day when I'm away from Wi-Fi again, rinse and repeat.
Edit:
Firefox desktop: when Firefox starts refusing to load web pages
Honestly, of all the things I have to update, I find Firefox the most painful, firstly because of the suspension of functional browsing if I ignore it long enough (there's enough apps out there that update cleanly at launch that I feel like that should be the norm instead of forcing an end to a session), and secondly because updates have wiped my tabs on two occasions. I successfully recovered my tabs from a backed-up session file once, but completely lost them on the other occasion.
adarza@piefed.ca · 6 pts · 52d
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-session-manager/
boss has this on her pc. put it on after she did accidentally "lose" all her tabs once (she keeps many open and restores session on re-launch). she hasn't since. and it's been years.
officermike@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 52d
This has mostly affected me on my work PC. I just tried installing it to find out IT blocks adding new extensions now. :(
I'll just have to be extra careful not to reflexively close Firefox if my tabs don't show up, and make sure to make a backup of the old session file before restarting.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 1 pts · 52d
There should he a setting that warn you about the tabs before ya close
tdawg@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 52d
Not saying you should have to do this but it might be worth checking if you can store ur current tabs. Maybe some kind of sigterm catch or a cron that regularly queries the active tabs
If nothing else it might be an interesting dive
Magister@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 52d
MX Linux here, daily I have a apt full-upgrade running
grandel@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 52d
What reminder?
BiscuityCat@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 52d
I'm still scared every time I have to update something, so I try to avoid updates if possible.
Most of the time when I had to update Windows or some software, something would break (and no previous bug would be fixed) and I would have to spend a whole day trying to fix the stupid issue.
TBH, I don't even remember if an update ever fixed something for me (but it probably happened at least once).
adarza@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 52d
blue is mislabeled for windows users. it should read:
"because i don't want more bugs"
BagOfHeavyStones@piefed.social · 4 pts · 52d
I don't usually update Android / Apps until something breaks. Too many 'updates' take features away.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 52d
Because something broke.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 52d
"Your smart toaster had an update available!"
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 51d
Yeah, just did that with orca Slicer this morning......
Pat@feddit.nu · 2 pts · 46d
Debian: Yeah, occasionally. Semiweekly, or so.