I'll never, ever, ever, forgot how the US is behaving right now. They're never more than 4 years from being this shitty, we cannot ever rely on or trust any deal they might try and make.
Correct. My immediate thought here is "Under what law?"
They've already gone through this. Trump's initial gambit, the IEEPA, got comprehensively struck down. That leaves him with two options; a law that was intended to address balance of payments issues (very likely to get stuck down in its own ongoing legal trials because, tldr, balance of payments issues haven't existed since they moved to fiat currency), which can only be used to impose tariffs of up to 15%, or a law that can be used to apply sector specific tariffs but only after an extensive investigation. That means they actually have to be able to justify, in court (because they will get sued by all the US buyers affected by these tariffs) the actual economic impact that is being mitigated.
The former is a non-starter - capped at 15%, has to be applied globally, not to one specific country, and based on super shakey legal grounds, and the latter will collapse the moment they're asked to show their work.
I’m just tired of this shit. No deal with the US means anything. No, there aren’t good American politicians who will stand up for what’s right, and you’re never four years away from either a better deal or your deals getting ripped up.
The USA cannot be trusted as a partner ever again. I’ll never ever forget.
It's possible, but I think it's more likely that the senile old man screamed at them to do it and they said "Yes sir" because it's easier than telling the diaper shitting toddler he can't have his bottle. They'll have thrown together some kind of incredibly flimsy justification under one of the existing - but largely inapplicable - legal avenues knowing full well that it'll fail in court but also that that's tomorrow's problem and hopefully by the time it does the old fart will have forgotten what he was mad about.
This is basically how most of "Trump does X" goes when you get down to it. The stuff that actually sticks is the big projects that he rubber stamps on behalf of his coterie of Wormtongues, while his own impulsive demands largely get implemented haphazardly and with little thought because no one besides grandpa actually cares.
On number 2, I won’t either. The whole lot of them too, even the ‘good ones’ are running excuses now. It’s getting that bad they’re starting to blame our countries for not sanctioning them. Don’t they get fucking wild when you tell them to stay home and fix their problem.
For years they took shots at us about our reasonable gun laws, socialist oppression, lack of Fr3ed0m…now they’re bending over taking it, we have to be understanding.
Eh, I'd say Hanlon's razor applies quite nicely here (as with pretty much everything Trump causes). The guy is a complete moron that acts entirely without self-control or rationality after all.
Normally I would agree with that position, but in the unique case of Trump, I'm fairly certain it's actually legitimate malice. Stupid malice, but malice.
Not quite. He wandered into the photoshoot trying to horn in on it, like a total fucknugget, but they escorted him off the stage and the photoshoot continued.
along with the education system, the healthcare system, political representation, and the military-industrial complex. It's like all of those things have been turned against the citizens of the United States.
Maybe there will be fewer purchases. But only if a few conditions have been met:
there is an alternative product; and
buyers can switch to the alternative product; and
the alternative has characteristics that make it more desirable than the Canadian product once prices rise from tarrifs;
Or
people can choose to not buy a product at all.
If the Canadian products are still the cheapest (or cheap enough), better enough in some other quality (e.g. not diarrhea inducing?), if buyers are locked into long-term supply agreements, or if people just need the product because there are no alternatives and not buying isn't an option, then tariffs don't impact total sales for those products directly.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the tarrifed goods against how elastic the demand for them is.
Your statement is contrary to factual reality which can be physically verified. Trump built 705 km of new primary barrier in his first term. Biden actually ended up adding to the wall after initially stopping construction. Since Trump's second term, wall construction has restarted with plans to complete the wall before the end of his term. None of this construction has been financed by Mexico.
"The Court's 6-3 decision determined that the 1977 IEEPA law does not grant the executive branch the authority to levy tariffs, emphasizing that the power to tax and impose duties rests exclusively with Congress under Article I of the Constitution."
That was in February, I swear that any Republican whom thinks he isn't anti
republic is hiding their head in the dirt.
The best response to unpredictable neighbours: Canada needs to diversify, maintain strong internal unity, and to focus on relentless self-reliance. Canada has goods the world wants. If the US doesn't want them Canada can and should go elsewhere.
When does Canada impose tariffs on America for their vile, insidious, invasive wildfire smoke from Oregon, Ohio and California needlessly gassing poor innocent Canadians?
Sheesh, we can write crap sensationalistic stuff too ya know.
exempting "energy, potash, critical minerals and fish" is interesting. I wonder if a possible strategy would be to put limits on those just above the current export amount, just to demonstrate that we could.
It wouldn't have to be on everything either just pick something like orange juice whiskey or a particular weapons system as a bunch of middle powers to boycott or refuse entry.
Move where? They are the biggest economy in the world. Only reason everyone is bending the knee, they don't want to loose access to the sweet sweet American consumer.
Americans dont care about the Epstein files. They only care about gas prices.
Doug buys almost as much electricity from NY as he sells. They dont need Ontario electricity, it's just slightly cheaper. Ford is still kissing Trump's ass anyway.
The 50 per cent rate is being imposed in response to what a senior administration official described as Canada's retaliation against U.S. trade policy and its discrimination against U.S. motor vehicles, dairy and alcohol.
The new rate would apply to a variety of Canadian imports, "ranging from wine to hockey sticks to cement," the official said, adding that the White House will publish a full list of the affected products.
So if they're just openly breaking the agreement, does any legal process automatically happen/become possible on our side, or is it a judgement call from the PMs office again?
76 Comments
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 73 pts · 17d
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works · 23 pts · 17d
Correct. My immediate thought here is "Under what law?"
They've already gone through this. Trump's initial gambit, the IEEPA, got comprehensively struck down. That leaves him with two options; a law that was intended to address balance of payments issues (very likely to get stuck down in its own ongoing legal trials because, tldr, balance of payments issues haven't existed since they moved to fiat currency), which can only be used to impose tariffs of up to 15%, or a law that can be used to apply sector specific tariffs but only after an extensive investigation. That means they actually have to be able to justify, in court (because they will get sued by all the US buyers affected by these tariffs) the actual economic impact that is being mitigated.
The former is a non-starter - capped at 15%, has to be applied globally, not to one specific country, and based on super shakey legal grounds, and the latter will collapse the moment they're asked to show their work.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 17d
I guess they think they found a new law.
I’m just tired of this shit. No deal with the US means anything. No, there aren’t good American politicians who will stand up for what’s right, and you’re never four years away from either a better deal or your deals getting ripped up.
The USA cannot be trusted as a partner ever again. I’ll never ever forget.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 17d
It's possible, but I think it's more likely that the senile old man screamed at them to do it and they said "Yes sir" because it's easier than telling the diaper shitting toddler he can't have his bottle. They'll have thrown together some kind of incredibly flimsy justification under one of the existing - but largely inapplicable - legal avenues knowing full well that it'll fail in court but also that that's tomorrow's problem and hopefully by the time it does the old fart will have forgotten what he was mad about.
This is basically how most of "Trump does X" goes when you get down to it. The stuff that actually sticks is the big projects that he rubber stamps on behalf of his coterie of Wormtongues, while his own impulsive demands largely get implemented haphazardly and with little thought because no one besides grandpa actually cares.
ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca · 4 pts · 17d
Carney: "We're not going to do anything about it for the benefit of the economy."
Ron Howard: "The economy being his closest billionaire friends."
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 16d
On number 2, I won’t either. The whole lot of them too, even the ‘good ones’ are running excuses now. It’s getting that bad they’re starting to blame our countries for not sanctioning them. Don’t they get fucking wild when you tell them to stay home and fix their problem.
For years they took shots at us about our reasonable gun laws, socialist oppression, lack of Fr3ed0m…now they’re bending over taking it, we have to be understanding.
mereo@piefed.ca · 62 pts · 17d
This is Trump's way to divert the world from the Iran quagmire he got himself into.
Xyphius@lemmy.ca · 36 pts · 17d
and the pdf files
Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca · 31 pts · 17d
The Epstein files.
binux@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 17d
Eh, I'd say Hanlon's razor applies quite nicely here (as with pretty much everything Trump causes). The guy is a complete moron that acts entirely without self-control or rationality after all.
GreenBeard@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 17d
Normally I would agree with that position, but in the unique case of Trump, I'm fairly certain it's actually legitimate malice. Stupid malice, but malice.
ryan213@lemmy.ca · 48 pts · 17d
He's mad Spain photoshopped him out of the team photo yesterday and we're the closest to his reach.
Theoriginalthon@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 17d
Wait what? Did that really happen 🤣
rbos@lemmy.ca · 30 pts · 17d
Not quite. He wandered into the photoshoot trying to horn in on it, like a total fucknugget, but they escorted him off the stage and the photoshoot continued.
Theoriginalthon@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 17d
Ah got it, wandered on to the stage and assumed everyone was cheering for him
ryan213@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 17d
Someone let senile grampa out of the house. 😂
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 17d
Senile raging narcissist grampa.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 17d
And Spain removed him from the photo they posted to social media.
No_Eponym@lemmy.ca · 42 pts · 17d
FTFY. Mexico didn't pay for the wall, Americans did. Canada doesn't pay the tarrifs, Americans do.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 17d
The news media has been failing the American public for a long time now.
mPony@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 17d
along with the education system, the healthcare system, political representation, and the military-industrial complex. It's like all of those things have been turned against the citizens of the United States.
Auli@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 17d
Sure but as prices increase people purchase less Canadian goods, so still hurts us.
No_Eponym@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 16d
Maybe there will be fewer purchases. But only if a few conditions have been met:
Or
If the Canadian products are still the cheapest (or cheap enough), better enough in some other quality (e.g. not diarrhea inducing?), if buyers are locked into long-term supply agreements, or if people just need the product because there are no alternatives and not buying isn't an option, then tariffs don't impact total sales for those products directly.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the tarrifed goods against how elastic the demand for them is.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 17d
There's no wall
No_Eponym@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 16d
Your statement is contrary to factual reality which can be physically verified. Trump built 705 km of new primary barrier in his first term. Biden actually ended up adding to the wall after initially stopping construction. Since Trump's second term, wall construction has restarted with plans to complete the wall before the end of his term. None of this construction has been financed by Mexico.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 15d
The length of the US/Mexico border is over 3000km.
A few useless barriers isn't a fucking wall.
rbos@lemmy.ca · 32 pts · 17d
Bring back the digital services tax.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 17d
I’m ready to start banning US corporate donors now.
Oh, you donated to Trump, sorry Apple, 100% tariff. Sorry Meta, you’re banned.
Fuck it.
kent_eh@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 17d
Plenty of people started doing that when the list of corporate donors to Trump's re-election was made public.
Don't forget Tesla and Twitter.
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 27 pts · 17d
"The Court's 6-3 decision determined that the 1977 IEEPA law does not grant the executive branch the authority to levy tariffs, emphasizing that the power to tax and impose duties rests exclusively with Congress under Article I of the Constitution."
That was in February, I swear that any Republican whom thinks he isn't anti republic is hiding their head in the dirt.
Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 17d
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/1338
Essentially Trump is pulling the exact same farce, just with a different law this time.
CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de · 27 pts · 17d
Ok
Toddler having another tantrum.
Anyways…
rbos@lemmy.ca · 21 pts · 17d
I think it's time to start allowing Canadian corn whisky to be called "bourbon".
FreeBooteR69@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 17d
This would be so funny, the fit that would cause would be awesome to behold.
rbos@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 17d
If NAFTA ends, so does the special naming. It's in there.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 16d
Dope.
You mostly hear about the tariff rules, but it's true that there is a lot more in there.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 16d
It's sold as bourbon style whiskey. Better than that Kentucky turpentine.
joecitizen@piefed.ca · 20 pts · 17d
The best response to unpredictable neighbours: Canada needs to diversify, maintain strong internal unity, and to focus on relentless self-reliance. Canada has goods the world wants. If the US doesn't want them Canada can and should go elsewhere.
wirebeads@lemmy.ca · 19 pts · 17d
Trump. Rapes. Children.
Smoke and mirrors. Don’t look up.
BillyTheKid2@lemmy.ca · 16 pts · 17d
Good. Double it. Triple it. Cut off all trade.
DO IT
frankdew@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 17d
Why stop there? Why not 2000%?
slothrop@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 17d
The same percentage he decreased drug prices, amirite!
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 16d
Infinity!
Infinity +1!
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 16d
Because this legislation only gives authority for up to 50%.
In general, you're correct, though. He just adds a high number.
Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 17d
When does Canada impose tariffs on America for their vile, insidious, invasive wildfire smoke from Oregon, Ohio and California needlessly gassing poor innocent Canadians?
Sheesh, we can write crap sensationalistic stuff too ya know.
eestileib@sh.itjust.works · 22 pts · 17d
Tariffs only hurt your own population, no need for Canada to spite ourselves.
We should buy everything we can from domestic providers and not jack up costs for people who still need things from the US.
Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 17d
My point was it happens on both sides? I know tariffs are not a resolution.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 17d
no need to tariff the US, just support production here in Canada for actual small Canadian businesses
the auto sector doesn't need any more help, for example
Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 17d
SirMaple__@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 17d
GrackleBirb@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 17d
rbos@lemmy.ca · 13 pts · 17d
exempting "energy, potash, critical minerals and fish" is interesting. I wonder if a possible strategy would be to put limits on those just above the current export amount, just to demonstrate that we could.
eestileib@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 17d
Sounds like we know how to make them squeal then.
FaceDeer@fedia.io · 12 pts · 17d
Breaking news: Screaming toddler repeats the same threats he's made numerous times before.
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 17d
It would be so funny if all countries stopped trade with the USA. Let him whine about that.
chuck@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 17d
It wouldn't have to be on everything either just pick something like orange juice whiskey or a particular weapons system as a bunch of middle powers to boycott or refuse entry.
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 17d
I was thinking not sending goods to the USA but not buying their stuff would piss of trumpet just as effectively.
stylusmobilus@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 16d
Well, I’ve seen a few ask for that. I had one try to pin their problems on the rest of us for not sanctioning them.
Any solution that avoids them having to do anything about it works for them I guess.
theacharnian@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 17d
TACO
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 15d
What? You wanna TACO bout it?
theacharnian@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 15d
I'm NACHO friend!
https://youtu.be/0A8nEfYmmtM
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 17d
Keep going guy. We could use the reminder. Moving trade away from the US needs a lot of pressure to happen to any significant degree.
Auli@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 17d
Move where? They are the biggest economy in the world. Only reason everyone is bending the knee, they don't want to loose access to the sweet sweet American consumer.
chuck@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 17d
Yep time to get those Epstein files out.
Time to sell us bonds to tank the us borrowing rates
Also time for Canada to recind/ limit any us patents on drugs or copyrights on media to 5 years since initial release.
Maybe repeal anything related to dcma
And why not let's let Doug ford unplug new York for a few hours every day for shits and giggles
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 16d
Americans dont care about the Epstein files. They only care about gas prices.
Doug buys almost as much electricity from NY as he sells. They dont need Ontario electricity, it's just slightly cheaper. Ford is still kissing Trump's ass anyway.
betanumerus@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 16d
raise the price of Canadian oil
separatists should stop sucking up to the us
weps@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 17d
department of trade war hits again
someguy3@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 17d
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 17d
Person who doesn't know how tariffs work blindly threatens tariffs again.
Polyphilic@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 17d
Its a bargaining chip.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 16d
So if they're just openly breaking the agreement, does any legal process automatically happen/become possible on our side, or is it a judgement call from the PMs office again?
Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 16d
What an annoying bitch.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 17d
Meh.
jaemo@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 16d
Lol Americants. What a buncha fuckwits.
switcheroo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 16d
So fucking tired of this fucking moron...
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 15d
Can't wait to hear the republican states whine about how Canada is ruining their economy/sales again.
Superorbit@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 17d
The boycotting will continue until ... I dunno anymore, maybe it'll never really stop.