It's always funny when someone goes "It's so hard to install", like bro, you just press "next, next next, enter your name, finish". Can't get easier than that.
And Windows 10 Pro has more steps than Linux Mint. The argument has been moot for a while, but some folk need a little encouragement to unlearn what's been parroted for decades.
It's a huge step in the right direction when a seller offers Linux preinstalled. Maybe the EU regulators can go after Microsoft, citing "anticompetitive actions", for ensuring every manufacturer include Windows OS. That'll open the gate for forcing options for the consumer
This is why I swapped my RTX 4070 with my brother for his 7700 XT. He offered me some money on top of it. I told him happy birthday because it matters more to me that it just fucking works instead of requiring a blood sacrifice every six weeks to not boot into a void.
Or, as Linus put it, fuck you NVIDIA.
Edit: No problems at all since I swapped the 7700 into my machine, by the way. Getting GPU drivers on my brother's Win 11 machine was a whole task by itself. Even on Windows, getting NVIDIA drivers to work isn't a painless experience.
I know right. I had a right game reinstalling Win 10 on a lenovo netbook - I had to put a supported, unmanaged version on it for installing lenovo dock firmware updates. For some reason, the default graphics mode was totally corrupted - almost unreadable, and rotated 90 degrees. Once the installer had finished, I had to manually install the right driver for the graphics hardware, and that fixed it. Took hours - total amateurs. For shits and giggles, after I'd finished with with the firmware updates, I installed Mint on it - and it was flawless, and done in half an hour. This is the way to do it!
Ey, EY! Do you know how long it took me figure out what a "mount point" is? In that same time, i could have already gone through, like, 20% of the ads of the win-installer!
I must say, im impressed by windows 11 haveing an update that fucked with the gui shutdown and then next up one that just straight up made it unable to boot
I have a windows 11 machine and i was "mmh, yeah microsoft sucks with update but it has been a while since i updated it...should i?" but now i fear to click that damn button
Twice have I helped my friends install linux. Twice have they had bogus usb drives that didn't store the distro properly. (One of them was a 2 cent 2tb drive, the other one was a pendrive he "found on the ground in the street")
Yeah, already installed vs. may require some tweaks to get all of your hardware working, is a big one, especially with laptops since there's so much proprietary junk in many of them.
What do you mean "install it?" You install programs ONTO windows. Windows is already installed. It's literally how you buy the computer. Have you ever even used a computer?
Hilarious that's still a thing. Back in the late 90's and early 00's, I had a buddy that would format and reinstall Windows and all his games and applications religiously, once a month. Seems like something would have done about this after all these years.
I bet there's a strong correlation, at least among we olds, between the number of times one has installed Windows and the likelihood that they are now a Linux user.
That's how we know that Linux is easier to install these days, for one.
I could see it. I wonder if it also depends WHICH windows variants you've installed and how many times. I, for one, have installed windows 98 probably high hundreds of times.
The last Windows I installed was version 10, it wasn't hard. Neither is installing Linux, maybe it used to be, I've only been using Mint for the past two years, but I don't remember it being hard to install.
I had a real time of installing Windows on a laptop because I had a peripheral that only works in Windows.
No trackpad drivers, no network drivers, no audio. Given Windows 11 now functionally requires internet during setup, I had to go get a USB drive, copy over the .inf files and have Windows find them before I could use the laptop that originally shipped with Windows.
Absolutely crazy. None of it was weird hardware either. Intel wireless, standard trackpad (not synaptics), realtek audio. No idea what the hell its problem was.
Installing Linux is just so easy while it genuinely took me a long while to (re)install Windows alongside Linux cuz the driver they provide is an exe and the install process wants some format else, and I ended up found a Github repo that provides decompressed driver files.
It's probably the #1 reason I'm not a fan of trying to convince Microsoft users to come over to Linux.. I'd rather we NOT have to dumb down what is essentially an almost perfect OS for a bunch of fuckwits who can't figure it out...
Well my friend, we're in the minority it seems. Everyone else suffers from choice supported bias. (The need to convince others to make the same choice they did to validate their choice in their mind.)
I'm a sysadmin. I professionally support about 30 Windows users plus a couple hundred classroom computers, and personally my family's PCs. And you are full of shit.
Starting December of last year, every time Microsoft released a cumulative update, I'd get an influx of OS-related issues, including:
Microsoft Store breaking installed applications
Broken HDMI, audio, and wireless device drivers, one of which was only fixed after a wipe and reinstall
Bitlocker failures that couldn't be decrypted with the key from the user's Microsoft account
Two occurences of a wiped EFI partition
One occurence of a completely broken installation
One occurence of a corrupted motherboard firmware
You can call Linux an unstable experience (though referring to "Linux" as a blanket term is nebulous and reductive to the point of irrelevance), but in the real world with real users, Windows is absolutely not a stable operating system, and far more difficult to diagnose and fix.
(edit) I almost forgot! We also had to push back an upgrade of the wifi infrastructure by a year because WPA3-Enterprise support on Windows was either broken or nonexistent on about a quarter of the computers. It was a fucking farce.
You have no experience. I need a computer to get paid. No way am I using windows. Linux on the desktop is rock solid and the most productive environment available.
I manage microsoft crap for a living and tolerate the occasional Mac (what a mess its become), and I would never rely on a Microsoft product.
If you had any experience at all being on a call or in person with microsofts server, desktop, or azure teams you would know damn well that even they know its mess with contradicting advice and rules and fixes for their shit.
65 Comments
BlindPenguin@lemmy.world · 72 pts · 29d
It's always funny when someone goes "It's so hard to install", like bro, you just press "next, next next, enter your name, finish". Can't get easier than that.
lyralycan@sh.itjust.works · 53 pts · 29d
And Windows 10 Pro has more steps than Linux Mint. The argument has been moot for a while, but some folk need a little encouragement to unlearn what's been parroted for decades.
feannag@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 28d
Except for one big thing. Most consumers buy a computer, and windows is already installed. Nothing to install, just an account to set up.
lyralycan@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 28d
It's a huge step in the right direction when a seller offers Linux preinstalled. Maybe the EU regulators can go after Microsoft, citing "anticompetitive actions", for ensuring every manufacturer include Windows OS. That'll open the gate for forcing options for the consumer
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 28d
Setting up that account? You wouldn't believe it, more steps than installing linux.
/s (maybe? Usb mint is so intrusive)
Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip · 15 pts · 28d
Assuming the graphics drivers baked into the installer work in the first go - ask me how my weekend went.
StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 28d
Oh God Linux and drivers man
spicytuna62@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 28d
This is why I swapped my RTX 4070 with my brother for his 7700 XT. He offered me some money on top of it. I told him happy birthday because it matters more to me that it just fucking works instead of requiring a blood sacrifice every six weeks to not boot into a void.
Or, as Linus put it, fuck you NVIDIA.
Edit: No problems at all since I swapped the 7700 into my machine, by the way. Getting GPU drivers on my brother's Win 11 machine was a whole task by itself. Even on Windows, getting NVIDIA drivers to work isn't a painless experience.
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 28d
Nvidia, not drivers in general. Unless you run Debian and have new gadgets i guess
cybervegan@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 28d
I know right. I had a right game reinstalling Win 10 on a lenovo netbook - I had to put a supported, unmanaged version on it for installing lenovo dock firmware updates. For some reason, the default graphics mode was totally corrupted - almost unreadable, and rotated 90 degrees. Once the installer had finished, I had to manually install the right driver for the graphics hardware, and that fixed it. Took hours - total amateurs. For shits and giggles, after I'd finished with with the firmware updates, I installed Mint on it - and it was flawless, and done in half an hour. This is the way to do it!
Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 28d
Ey, EY! Do you know how long it took me figure out what a "mount point" is? In that same time, i could have already gone through, like, 20% of the ads of the win-installer!
germanatlas@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 29d
Yeah but there is a partition manager 😱
woelkchen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
In all fairness, not needing to install an OS is easier.
1984@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 28d
People get confused if their icons change color, man.
If the icon is not in the same place as before, god help them.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 28d
It's impossible to install second in a dual boot system and its drive selection interface is quite confusing if you're not careful.
BlindPenguin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 28d
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 28d
Oh you were referring to linux? You didn't specify in your comment. I thought you meant windows.
BlindPenguin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 28d
Well, i thought it was clear in context to the meme :)
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 28d
"Microsoft Windows" was the last noun displayed to me in the post.
KingOfTheCouch@lemmy.ca · 59 pts · 29d
Windows is easier to install because the user didn't install it.
Crashumbc@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 28d
TBF Windows is pretty simple to install. Tracking and other bullshit aside.
Dpek@lemmy.zip · 22 pts · 29d
I must say, im impressed by windows 11 haveing an update that fucked with the gui shutdown and then next up one that just straight up made it unable to boot
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 14 pts · 29d
I have a windows 11 machine and i was "mmh, yeah microsoft sucks with update but it has been a while since i updated it...should i?" but now i fear to click that damn button
abbiistabbii@piefed.blahaj.zone · 16 pts · 29d
"How do I get Linux.exe?"
ChilledPeppers@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 28d
Twice have I helped my friends install linux. Twice have they had bogus usb drives that didn't store the distro properly. (One of them was a 2 cent 2tb drive, the other one was a pendrive he "found on the ground in the street")
cosmos8188@leminal.space · 6 pts · 28d
Well, where else are you gonna find a wild pendrive?
ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 28d
The one friend probably hasn't heard about USB parkade seeding as a pen test tool.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 27d
That is such Windows user behavior.
irotsoma@piefed.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 29d
Yeah, already installed vs. may require some tweaks to get all of your hardware working, is a big one, especially with laptops since there's so much proprietary junk in many of them.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 28d
What do you mean "install it?" You install programs ONTO windows. Windows is already installed. It's literally how you buy the computer. Have you ever even used a computer?
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 28d
Dude, you reinstall windows every1.5-2 years as by that point it has fucked itself into oblivion.
highball@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 27d
Hilarious that's still a thing. Back in the late 90's and early 00's, I had a buddy that would format and reinstall Windows and all his games and applications religiously, once a month. Seems like something would have done about this after all these years.
Zink@programming.dev · 7 pts · 28d
I bet there's a strong correlation, at least among we olds, between the number of times one has installed Windows and the likelihood that they are now a Linux user.
That's how we know that Linux is easier to install these days, for one.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 28d
I could see it. I wonder if it also depends WHICH windows variants you've installed and how many times. I, for one, have installed windows 98 probably high hundreds of times.
ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 28d
What's a computer?
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 27d
The last Windows I installed was version 10, it wasn't hard. Neither is installing Linux, maybe it used to be, I've only been using Mint for the past two years, but I don't remember it being hard to install.
Flatfire@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 27d
I had a real time of installing Windows on a laptop because I had a peripheral that only works in Windows.
No trackpad drivers, no network drivers, no audio. Given Windows 11 now functionally requires internet during setup, I had to go get a USB drive, copy over the .inf files and have Windows find them before I could use the laptop that originally shipped with Windows.
Absolutely crazy. None of it was weird hardware either. Intel wireless, standard trackpad (not synaptics), realtek audio. No idea what the hell its problem was.
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 28d
Is it easier to install though?
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 28d
No one really knows. Only a few brave souls have tried, all of whom succumbed to madness shortly thereafter.
godsammitdam@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 27d
Oh look, it's Madthumbs, moderator and owner of the linuxsucks community.
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 27d
I hate that community so much. I wish they stayed on fucking reddit
Willie169@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 7d
Installing Linux is just so easy while it genuinely took me a long while to (re)install Windows alongside Linux cuz the driver they provide is an exe and the install process wants some format else, and I ended up found a Github repo that provides decompressed driver files.
rain_worl@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 24d
microsoft femboys?? (daunting prospect)
ShredderFeeder@shredderfood.net · -21 pts · 29d
It's probably the #1 reason I'm not a fan of trying to convince Microsoft users to come over to Linux.. I'd rather we NOT have to dumb down what is essentially an almost perfect OS for a bunch of fuckwits who can't figure it out...
Broadfern@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 28d
Ah yes, the single OS known as “Linux”
I’m no irl proselytizer but if someone wants to switch their desktop experience (to Linux, Mac, etc.) I won’t actively discourage them lolol
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 28d
desktop environments already exist, we don't have to give up anything to let them keep existing
PabloSexcrowbar@piefed.social · 2 pts · 28d
Been saying this for years. Any time the masses get involved with something good, it goes to absolute shit. Not everything has to be for everyone.
ShredderFeeder@shredderfood.net · -1 pts · 28d
Well my friend, we're in the minority it seems. Everyone else suffers from choice supported bias. (The need to convince others to make the same choice they did to validate their choice in their mind.)
dudeface@lemmy.world · -32 pts · 29d
People who use the word “fanboy” care way more than the other side, it’s like android saying it to Apple users
Use your trash while the rest of us enjoy a stable product
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social · 29 pts · 29d
Stable? Are you really talking about Windows where every update is a gamble (and increasingly so)?
dudeface@lemmy.world · -44 pts · 29d
I use macOS, but yes windows is more stable than desktop Linux overall
I use Linux every day but it’s not useable on the desktop and nobody who knows anything about computers thinks otherwise
CEO_Monk@piefed.social · 32 pts · 29d
Is this rage bait?
CorrectAlias@piefed.blahaj.zone · 22 pts · 29d
Yes
funkajunk@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 29d
Ragebait used to be believable
dudeface@lemmy.world · -31 pts · 29d
If you want to take it as that, and are unwilling to take advice from people with actual experience
rtxn@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 28d
I'm a sysadmin. I professionally support about 30 Windows users plus a couple hundred classroom computers, and personally my family's PCs. And you are full of shit.
Starting December of last year, every time Microsoft released a cumulative update, I'd get an influx of OS-related issues, including:
You can call Linux an unstable experience (though referring to "Linux" as a blanket term is nebulous and reductive to the point of irrelevance), but in the real world with real users, Windows is absolutely not a stable operating system, and far more difficult to diagnose and fix.
(edit) I almost forgot! We also had to push back an upgrade of the wifi infrastructure by a year because WPA3-Enterprise support on Windows was either broken or nonexistent on about a quarter of the computers. It was a fucking farce.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 29d
You have no experience. I need a computer to get paid. No way am I using windows. Linux on the desktop is rock solid and the most productive environment available.
I manage microsoft crap for a living and tolerate the occasional Mac (what a mess its become), and I would never rely on a Microsoft product.
If you had any experience at all being on a call or in person with microsofts server, desktop, or azure teams you would know damn well that even they know its mess with contradicting advice and rules and fixes for their shit.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 29d
Ah, thank you for confirming it.
AlphaOmega@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 28d
Yeah 40 years working on computers and the last stable windows OS was XP.
I have actual experience and you are completely full of shit.
dudeface@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 28d
I’m an engineer, I know more than you
CorrectAlias@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 26d
What kind of engineer?
Mistiygirl@lemmy.zip · 27 pts · 29d
"not usable on the desktop" me: who's been using linux completely without issue after setup for daily work and complex shit for over a year
BlindPenguin@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 29d
I work in IT, and i think otherwise.
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 28d
Stable... haha
KingOfTheCouch@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 29d
Someone woke up and chose violence this morning.