From what I know, it has to do with the word red covering the purple part of the spectrum long ago, and the "need" for the word purple came out later but purple things that were named red didn't get renamed.
You can look at japanese right now and 青い covers both blue and green, with a relatively recent addition of 緑 to cover only green (thus possibly pushing 青い in the future to be only blue, who knows)
Similarly, the red fox is clearly orange, but English speakers were exposed to that species of fox before developing a word for that specific color. For bonus linguistical oddities, 'orange' was used for the fruit before it was used for the color.
And the fruit's name is different from other countries' names for it because "a naranj" was misheard as "an orange" and it stuck. Yellow-red wasn't much adopted, though it did exist. Such is language, what a fun collective hallucination.
I already knew this about colors (it's also why "redheads" have orange hair) but I recently dug more into how the musical spectrum and how tones are defined is very similar in it's cultural variance. Another thing is how the cardinal directions are divided radially and how time is counted. Shit counting bases even, most of the imperial measurements are based on either base 12 or base 16 math.
Wild to think that something you grew up with as a fundamental fact of the world might actually be super culturally subjective.
Well whys it called Shepherds Pie when it doesnt contain shepherds, or Cottage Pie when its nothing to do with cottages or cottagimg? How about that one...checkmate!!!
Meanwhile stupid USians subscribe to the literal 19th-century ‘scientific racism’ theory that has ‘Caucasian people’ as something other than deeply tan skin that Caucasian people actually have.
That's only because the wine is whitish. Nobody calls the grapes themselves white. And she squeeze the juice out the juice isn't the same color as the skin. I've never heard anyone refer a grapes as white grapes
US. When I go to my local grocery store, they're categorized under white or red.
At least for white, that is indeed how the English Wikipedia classifies different grape cultivars, even ones that aren't intended to make wine. Black is new to me though.
Might just be that my grocery store is real local and they do it differently. I try to avoid large chains. But I've always understood white and red to be the technical classifiers of grapes, and the actual color you see with your eyes varies.
I'm also from a wine-producing region, so maybe that has something to do with it as well.
Never heard about green grapes. Here in Germany they are called "white grapes" and EN-Wikipedia is also calling them that in english. We are also talking it "white wine" and so on.
I spent way too much time sitting in the backseat looking out the window on long family drives wondering why the fuck they kept referring to the orange cheddar cheese as "yellow" cheese. Still kind of annoys me today after decades of getting older and settling down a bit.
So, this is kinda weird, but general colors didn't have names for a long time. Like in Greek texts by Homer he describes the water color as dark wine color because the name "blue" wasn't a word. So it's possible when they named a "red onion" purple wasn't a color and considered a shade of red.
Also as others have said purple was the color of royalty and they didn't want an association.
Jess and Rob on Words Unraveled talk about color word origins, and their discussion is illuminating about the cultural variance in perception of color. Now I am at peace with all the seemingly weird color names for things.
For a quicker tour, Vox talks about the order that languages fill in color words as cultures begin to refine their distinction.
If thats the US (southern drawal accent-typing).. No they arent. Spanish onions are vadalia onions that arent grown specifically in Vadalia, Georgia. Theyre the "sparkling wine, not champagne" of onions
many more foods are described as blue in southern Germany. Notably, blue onions, blue grapes, and blue cabbage
I grew up in southern Germany and have never heard anyone call those things blue. I've heard of Blaukraut from the tongue twister and been told that it's a different word for Rotkohl but that's it.
86 Comments
BunScientist@lemmy.zip · 94 pts · 20h
From what I know, it has to do with the word red covering the purple part of the spectrum long ago, and the "need" for the word purple came out later but purple things that were named red didn't get renamed.
You can look at japanese right now and 青い covers both blue and green, with a relatively recent addition of 緑 to cover only green (thus possibly pushing 青い in the future to be only blue, who knows)
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 16h
Similarly, the red fox is clearly orange, but English speakers were exposed to that species of fox before developing a word for that specific color. For bonus linguistical oddities, 'orange' was used for the fruit before it was used for the color.
JamieDub86@piefed.social · 7 pts · 13h
Or the red squirrel, which is brown.
TisI@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 10h
And red hair.
metallic_z3r0@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 49m
And the fruit's name is different from other countries' names for it because "a naranj" was misheard as "an orange" and it stuck. Yellow-red wasn't much adopted, though it did exist. Such is language, what a fun collective hallucination.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 21 pts · 17h
Yes, the word for greenery/foliage, 青葉, translates to "blue leaves"
Also the green traffic light is called blue
Apytele@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 16h
I already knew this about colors (it's also why "redheads" have orange hair) but I recently dug more into how the musical spectrum and how tones are defined is very similar in it's cultural variance. Another thing is how the cardinal directions are divided radially and how time is counted. Shit counting bases even, most of the imperial measurements are based on either base 12 or base 16 math.
Wild to think that something you grew up with as a fundamental fact of the world might actually be super culturally subjective.
JamieDub86@piefed.social · 9 pts · 13h
Well whys it called Shepherds Pie when it doesnt contain shepherds, or Cottage Pie when its nothing to do with cottages or cottagimg? How about that one...checkmate!!!
alsimoneau@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 6h
And baby powder is never powdered babies!
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2h
I was similarly let down.
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 6h
Oh shit! Shouldn't have made my own. Although it is quite good sprinkled on my salad...
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12h
For bonus points, terms for colors are developed differently but similarly in separate languages: see e.g. ‘Color term’.
Doom@lemmy.world · 49 pts · 15h
Because they are only purple on the inside. Do you think apples are white? Or bananas?
Hupf@feddit.org · 40 pts · 12h
resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe · 8 pts · 14h
lauha@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 12h
Humans are red so why not?
rumba@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 14h
That's a different variety than my local grocers. Stores near me, the papery outside it brown the red flesh you see there is dark purple for us.
gergolippai@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 13h
in hungarian it's purple onion, you just choose the wrong language :)
webp@mander.xyz · 21 pts · 12h
At least we aren't hungary all the time
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip · 38 pts · 20h
why do we call green grapes white
zikzak025@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 20h
Or purple grapes red?
(I'm guessing due to the type of wine they make)
Almacca@aussie.zone · 17 pts · 18h
Don't even get me started on 'white' people.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 12h
Meanwhile stupid USians subscribe to the literal 19th-century ‘scientific racism’ theory that has ‘Caucasian people’ as something other than deeply tan skin that Caucasian people actually have.
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2h
They also don't look at the last half of the word too closely.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25m
You mean the word ‘Caucasian‘? Sorry, but that's probably unrelated to ‘Asia’. Folk etymology is fun, but it always falls apart in practice.
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 19h
Grapes don't make wine, silly. They're inert.
NeilNuggetstrong@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 19h
Source?!
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 18h
"the
ballsgrapes are inert"postmateDumbass@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2h
Table grapes have learned from the chameleon.
anewfox@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 18h
when i say "red grapes," i'm always referring to the ones that are actually red because they have the most satisfying snap when you eat them.
jobbies@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 19h
hanke@feddit.nu · 8 pts · 19h
Who calls green grapes white..?
Never heard that happen
anewfox@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 18h
two examples: white wine, white grape juice. both are very common. seems to refer to the juice color, not the color of the grape skins.
when they're made into raisins, they're called golden raisins. so "white" isn't even the only one.
zikzak025@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 18h
Might be different in other languages, but English usually divides grapes into red and white for color.
HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 18h
The fuck it does
Equinox1289@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 17h
White Wine
HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 17h
Pink balls
We're talking about grapes?
phar@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 17h
That's only because the wine is whitish. Nobody calls the grapes themselves white. And she squeeze the juice out the juice isn't the same color as the skin. I've never heard anyone refer a grapes as white grapes
GlendatheGayWitch@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 17h
In English, grapes are green or red.
Wine is not a grape. White wine and red wine refers to the color of the wine. Nobody calls vodka golden because it came from a potato.
otter@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 17h
Which part of the world are you from? I'm in Canada, and we call them green grapes and red grapes
https://www.safeway.com/shop/aisles/fruits-vegetables/fresh-fruits/grapes.html?sort=&page=1&loc=3132
Meanwhile Wikipedia notes '"Black" (dark blue) and "white" (light green) table grapes'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape
zikzak025@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 6h
US. When I go to my local grocery store, they're categorized under white or red.
At least for white, that is indeed how the English Wikipedia classifies different grape cultivars, even ones that aren't intended to make wine. Black is new to me though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almeria_(grape)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia_(grape)
Might just be that my grocery store is real local and they do it differently. I try to avoid large chains. But I've always understood white and red to be the technical classifiers of grapes, and the actual color you see with your eyes varies.
I'm also from a wine-producing region, so maybe that has something to do with it as well.
JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org · 3 pts · 13h
Never heard about green grapes. Here in Germany they are called "white grapes" and EN-Wikipedia is also calling them that in english. We are also talking it "white wine" and so on.
poipoiuleon@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 19h
In Spanish we actually call them "cebolla morada" that means purple onion :D
undefined@lemmy.hogru.ch · 13 pts · 19h
I’m bilingual and I always forget which language calls it which, so I get confused looks from everyone.
poipoiuleon@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 17h
JAJAJJAJAJAJJA yep it has happened to me
Danarchy@lemmy.nz · 17 pts · 18h
It refers to the communism of the onions
MrChewy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 17h
Like ogres?
dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 12h
We're all pink on the inside
rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 9h
Because the dry outer skin is a rich red colour
fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 19h
We call them purple in Spanish... English has brain damage as per usual.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 16h
That's weird, I would have thought you'd call them morado in Spanish.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3h
According to someone up thread, it's morada, so I'm guessing onions are female in Spanish?
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 3h
I love them but they make me cry so this checks out.
sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 19h
I spent way too much time sitting in the backseat looking out the window on long family drives wondering why the fuck they kept referring to the orange cheddar cheese as "yellow" cheese. Still kind of annoys me today after decades of getting older and settling down a bit.
Routhinator@startrek.website · 9 pts · 16h
The skin of red onions is reddish to purple. The flesh is purple much like shallots. But the skin sets them apart.
Tiral@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2h
So, this is kinda weird, but general colors didn't have names for a long time. Like in Greek texts by Homer he describes the water color as dark wine color because the name "blue" wasn't a word. So it's possible when they named a "red onion" purple wasn't a color and considered a shade of red.
Also as others have said purple was the color of royalty and they didn't want an association.
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2h
Cant have pesants eating royal onion now can we?
atx_aquarian@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 12h
Jess and Rob on Words Unraveled talk about color word origins, and their discussion is illuminating about the cultural variance in perception of color. Now I am at peace with all the seemingly weird color names for things.
For a quicker tour, Vox talks about the order that languages fill in color words as cultures begin to refine their distinction.
Speiser0@feddit.org · 8 pts · 16h
The inside is purple, but the outside is red, especially if it's dry.
CubitOom@infosec.pub · 8 pts · 17h
I'm crying
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 5h
What really gets me is that the compounds responsible for this hue in food are called "anthocyanins" which means "blue flower." I can't even.
its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 19h
I've found the color in a things name usually points to what color dye you can extract from it.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 15h
Same reason they call the tree a "Redbud tree."
Barely literate settlers were colonizing and writing home about the beautiful
PuplePrulePurlpleLavendaarRed-Bud Trees.killingspark@feddit.org · 6 pts · 10h
Wait till they find out that some cultures didn't have separate words for green and blue
KulunkelBoom@lemmus.org · 5 pts · 16h
Calm down... calm down... Perhaps consider putting the onions aside and trying a nice parsnip.
gens@programming.dev · 4 pts · 19h
I AM AN ADULT!
yoriaiko@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 10h
Sorry to hear, me too... lets do taxes
weps@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 10h
An orange is about the only thing correctly named
Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone · 8 pts · 5h
Yeah that'll happen when you name the colour after the fruit.
Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 5h
Blueberry 🫐
Am I a fucking joke to you?
shweddy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19h
Nobody tell them about red cabbage
MrNesser@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 10h
Because purple isn't a colour
It's the absence of colour your brain cannot interpret so it makes a purple.
Ironrod@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 10h
I doubt whoever named it knew that though
Shoshin@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 17h
We call em Spanish Onions round these parts
nforminvasion@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 16h
That's whack. Spanish Onions refer to something completely different in most places.
https://therustyspoon.com/spanish-onions/
Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 15h
If thats the US (southern drawal accent-typing).. No they arent. Spanish onions are vadalia onions that arent grown specifically in Vadalia, Georgia. Theyre the "sparkling wine, not champagne" of onions
Shoshin@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 14h
Australia
evolatic@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 18h
I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but it's a cool read nonetheless.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a71442895/purple-is-fake-research/
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 3 pts · 19h
Because calling them blue onions would be weird.
brownsugga@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 19h
isn't that what they call them in germany
MLM@feddit.org · 4 pts · 19h
No. We call them red too
brownsugga@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 18h
https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/05/27/cultural-difference-color-and-the-onion/
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 2 pts · 16h
I grew up in southern Germany and have never heard anyone call those things blue. I've heard of Blaukraut from the tongue twister and been told that it's a different word for Rotkohl but that's it.
brownsugga@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 6h
I 100% believe you I just know I heard it somewhere - I think I was watching a YouTube cooking show and they referred to it as blue
Bluewing@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 6h
Purple is just an up jump red aimed at royalty
Hikermick@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 12h
Yet purple finches clearly are red
HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -1 pts · 10h
We're not white on the Inside, so why should a red onion have to be red all the way through