I’m an American who just started my first year of undergraduate studies at the National University of Singapore last month. I chose Singapore over the US because I wanted to live abroad, and Singapore checked pretty much every box for me: it’s in Asia, tropical, safe, developed, and English is the medium of instruction.
Now, even though NUS is a great university by global standards, the reaction I’ve gotten from many of my family members and friends is that choosing to study abroad as an American is inherently a downgrade, regardless of the university or country. That’s where my question comes from.
48 Comments
PlexSheep@infosec.pub · 34 pts · 17h
I'd say good for you. Even better if you keep to the local customs and norms. Maybe try learning some of the language etc. In Germany we have the saying "Reisen bildet" (travelling educates) and I think it's true.
Personally, I wouldn't go to the US for a lot of money since trump happened, I just wouldn't feel safe (and I'm not even in the target group for trumpists). You should expect that the reputation of the USA has deteriorated severely, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people will think you're responsible for that.
Education wise, I'm sure there are some very good universities still in the US, but there are also some very good universities elsewhere. I don't know about the statistics but I don't think the difference is that pronounced if you're not looking for the pinnacle of education.
Overall, I'd say good idea to study abroad and see more of the world. Even if the education was worse it's invaluable life experience.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 16h
And where ever you travel, there will be germans
NoForwadSlashS@piefed.social · 2 pts · 14h
*shudder*
Tujio@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10h
Especially in August.
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 16h
I think you might just have a "USA #1!" family. New experiences are worth more than everything. They may not like or appreciate what you might learn over there, but you'll have experienced a piece of the world that they never will.
I work at an American college and we encourage our students to study abroad. No matter how good the school is, that's an unteachable experience.
9point6@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 16h
Crabs in a bucket vibe
NUS is a top 10 university in the world last I heard, unless you're turning down MIT, you're probably better off
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 15h
Also getting an undergraduate engineering degree at MIT isn't more impressive than the same for most universities. It's an undergraduate degree, they're fairly standardized.
And at least for engineering jobs, only having an undergraduate degree if you went to MIT might bring more questions, like "why didn't you get into the graduate program with the advantage of already knowing faculty?"
DougPiranha42@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 15h
It is outright ridiculous to say that undergraduate degrees are standard and one would get similar education out of MIT and Oklahoma State University. The professors are not the same, the facilities are not the same, and the peers are not the same. May I ask: are you making this shockingly incorrect statement after completing an undergrad degree at MIT or Stanford or similar school, and being disappointed in it?
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 14h
The only reason why schools like MIT have better graduates is because they cherry pick better students. Americans are completely brainwashed into thinking the institution matters on the development of an engineer or scientist. I've watched pharma make $200M mistakes listening to people because they had a Harvard degree.
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 12h
100% this
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 14h
That has very little effect on coursework, since there's not much lab work in undergrad, at least not enough where variability will significantly affect outcomes
Sure, but overall course offerings and structure are standardized and guided by ABET-accreditation, which is required for the vast majority of engineering jobs. Between that and there only being 2-3 worthwhile textbooks for most topics, there's not that much variability.
Graduate programs are where most engineering schools diverge, since that's heavily based on funding, reputation, and specialization of professors.
Pretty weird assumption to make.
No, this is based on years of experience working with other engineers that recieved education from various schools throughout Ohio. There's no appreciable difference in quality of undergrads between Ohio State, University of Cincinnati, Wright State, University of Toledo, Ohio University, etc. despite having very different reputations and whether they're private or public schools.
Now if you're done being wildly confrontational without knowing what you're talking about, I'm going to move on with my day
someguy3@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 12h
The quality of your professors and their ability to teach is huge.
nightofmichelinstars@sopuli.xyz · 21 pts · 17h
For context, I'm an American. Your family and friends share the opinion of a lot of Americans, including employers. So they're right in the sense that an US degree would make it easier to get a job in the US after you graduate. That said, there's no reason to think American universities actually provide a superior education or experience. If anything, very much the opposite the way our country is going. Academia is being targeted and defunded. If I were starting college now, I'd be delighted to be doing it outside the US and I'd network like hell to build a career overseas so I never had to come home.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 14h
Ivy League schools have degraded into expensive diploma mills. Students feel entitled to As, grade inflation means As are now class averages. I have colleagues at Ivy League schools complaining students don't even show up to lectures but they have huge pressure to give ridiculous marks, because they are customers.
The only thing driving institutional success was research from foreign post docs and now they are all gone.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 15h
To add a counterpoint, the jobs that like to see American universities over foreign ones might be employers that would be prejudiced in other ways, too, and you may be better off dodging that bullet. Some employers do value the experience that comes from studying in a foreign country.
Depending on what job you are applying for, your portfolio, skills, and experience are going to be more important than where you went to college, so long as you got a degree from an accredited university and HR can check that box.
jtrek@startrek.website · 14 pts · 14h
That's insane. Pure emotional slop not based in any facts.
You're not casually going to convince them otherwise. Facts don't matter. Here, read this: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe
Console_Modder@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 12h
I spent a year of college studying in Europe. It is not a "downgrade" to study in another country, and (from a quick search) it looks like you've picked a really fucking good school. I would definitely recommend studying abroad for everyone who can wether it's for the entirety of your degree, or for just a semester. Just know that culture shock is very real so get ready for that. Hope you go through with this decision and have fun in Singapore!
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 12h
They are expressing their insecurity that you will outgrow them.
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 16h
What is strange question..
I think it’s awesome. I was lucky enough to live in Germany for three years and it was awesome. Everyone if they get a chance should live in another country for a few years, I can’t think of a better way to do than to study abroad.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 9 pts · 13h
They're fine. They get teased and made fun of and its a bit of a culture shock but they chill out and usually end up being decent.
k0e3@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 17h
My perception is, "oh you're American." That's it.
guyoverthere123@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 9h
Your family says it's a downgrade only because you chose to get a good education outside of the United States.
lokalhorst@feddit.org · 9 pts · 17h
From whom do you want an answer, US americans or "other"? As a European I can't tell you about what is an upgrade/downgrade for the US as we don't rank universities that much over here. So no idea about the job chances in the US. From the other side of the pond I can tell you I like when people make experiences in foreign countries and I think it can be an important part of education and strengthens open-mindedness (is that a word?).
From what I know from US culture via the web (bias!) I feel often people are very US-centric and nationalist, so the reactions of your family and friends don't shock me.
starlinguk@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 17h
My brother used to be a manager, and when an applicant was from Europe he wouldn't check the university but when they were from the US he definitely would.
lokalhorst@feddit.org · 1 pts · 16h
Our universities are mostly publicly funded, that's why the level of education quality doesn't vary that much. Sure you got famous universities with very strong research groups in certain fields. But the impact on education is limited - if you passed linear algebra it doesn't really matter much where. I can only speak for Germany though, it may be different for example in the UK.
On the other hand - the top US universities seem to be on a much higher level then ours, that is why the elite love sending their children to the Ivy League universities. So even in Germany if you went to Harvard or Columbia this will often qualify for the real good positions.
speculate7383@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 12h
Yes it is. Good choice.
noxypaws@pawb.social · 8 pts · 10h
you must be heterosexual saying Singapore is "safe"
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 4h
It's far from the least safe country to be gay in, and decent by regional standards, but yes, it's not the West.
noxypaws@pawb.social · 1 pts · 3h
if they still criminalize gay sex then my comment stands
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 1h
They do not.
ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 17h
I'm not an American, so not sure if that matters. However, I never really cared whether someone studied abroad or not. If the person wants to study abroad, that's their choice. I just hope the person has taken a lot of time to research and prepare for it (language barrier, culture stuff, housing, etc.).
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 16h
Depends on that person. There are Americans who care and integrate well, and there are others.
And regarding the quality of the studying, well, US university quality has taken a big beating in the last two years...
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 7h
I look at it like they want a good education, but they also want something that can't be provided in the USA. It may be a new experience, learning different languages, or something else.
Mycatiskai@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 7h
Also Singapore noodles are delicious, they may just call them noodles there which could be confusing.
soyslurper2@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 4h
They find green (not yellow) grass amazing
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 15h
Good for you, is what I think! You're one step closer to escaping this blooming fascist hellscape of a failed society.
save_the_humans@leminal.space · 2 pts · 8h
The school matters more in grad school, and more than that its who you end up working with
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 12h
I spent a few years abroad as a American teen. I spent time with host families all over the UK and Ireland, a brief time in Prague. This was quite awhile ago now but one of the things I found comforting while I was there was that they were often more ignorant of America than we were of Europe. The terminally online Europeans you find on Reddit and Lemmy are insufferable. But the average European you meet on the ground is just as down to earth and provincial in knowledge as any flyover state American.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 4h
I was wondering if it's an American dismissiveness thing, but it looks like other Americans in this thread think that's nuts, too.
If you turned down Harvard, sure, maybe it's a downgrade. I have to think a community or private school nobody's ever heard of would be worse. Unless you're planning to go back to the US to work, in which case US-first might bite you.
bedwyr@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 16h
You didn't ask me as an american, but you are wasting a lot of money doing such in my opinion, not the least in singapore, which might be the most expensive city in the world iirc.
Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org · 2 pts · 16h
I have met many people who came from Usa but have chosen to live here in Europe. They are the best ones. I never disliked any one of them.
Tourists on the other hand, they are the same as common Americans, no better. I can do without.
For such who only go elsewhere for a year or two, I don't know. Probably candidates for the first category :)
Octavio@piefed.social · 2 pts · 12h
That they’re adventurous, curious, and open minded about other cultures. They will be far richer for the experience.
AskewLord@piefed.social · 1 pts · 13h
Maeve@kbin.earth · 1 pts · 15h
https://i0.wp.com/straightfromamovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/get-out-movie.jpg
I think it's a wonderful idea.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 1 pts · 12h
Only one? Why not study all broads?
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 9m
Studying even one broad is very challenging and complex.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 15h
Could i ask out of curiosity, why were you looking specifically for a school in Asia? That's cool
serene_flac@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 11h
I’ve always had a personal interest in this part of the world.
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 3h
Nice!