New Zealand has announced plans to eradicate feral cats by 2050, as part of efforts to protect the country’s biodiversity.
Speaking to Radio New Zealand on Thursday, conservation minister Tama Potaka said that feral cats are “stone cold killers” and would be added to the country’s Predator Free 2050 list, which aims to eradicate those animals that have a negative impact on species such as birds, bats, lizards and insects.
Cats had previously been excluded from the list, which includes species such as stoats, ferrets, weasels, rats and possums, but Potaka used the interview to announce a U-turn.
162 Comments
Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip · 126 pts · 285d
Cats are remarkably capable predators, and cat owners are remarkably irresponsible.
Letting your cat be an "outside" cat is bad enough for the environment. Not spaying/neutering said "outside cat" is how we get feral cats everywhere.
That said, I dont love the vague "eradicate feral cats" language. Would greatly prefer a broad spectrum spay/neuter/tag program to naturally reduce their population.
Predator-free NZ was always destined to ruffle some feathers though.
laz@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 26 pts · 285d
they gotta put thiel on that list
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 285d
Rats are already on it.
Baguette@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 24 pts · 285d
I don't think just spaying is enough. It'd have to be capture or even worst case euthanize. Leaving cats and any nonnative predator is especially harsh on local species each second they are in the wild because new zealand is one of the few places with flightless birds like the kakapo, which are critically endangered (just one step away from being extinct in the wild)
someguy3@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 285d
Spaying and neutering and releasing is more effective because then they still compete for the same resources, pushing reproduction down. I wonder if they can use that she other methods to get the population down to zero.
AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 285d
That's when you are trying to control the population. These are invasive species, worse than that, invasive predators. Eradication and control are two different things.
Neither of those solves the problem entirely, but an eradication aims to keep the population of invasive species much lower than control. Any amount of invasive predators, especially as effective as feral cats, needs to be controlled.
Feral cats and pet cats are just two different things, like feral pigs and wild pigs. Even pet cats need to be tightly controlled, every bird a pet cat kills is multiplied in aggregate, these things we love are absolutely brutal.
someguy3@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 285d
Yes that's why I said "I wonder if they can use that
sheand other methods to get the population down to zero." Zero means eradication.AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 285d
I'm sorry, that's totally fair, I don't mean to sound dickish. They can't hit zero. Australia is a model for how bad invasive cats can get, and the cat is already out of the bag, so to speak. They either target aggressive goals, which are primarily culling mixed with chemical and some limited physical spay/neutering programs. But when you are talking bang for buck, it's really easy to look to culling primarily.
Spay nueter programs are much more expensive and usually donor funded. You gotta do a lot to an animal to even modestly safely remove it's sex organs, especially females. I wouldn't be surprised if they pop up in NZ, privately funded, in addition to the other programs. Desexing is still is the best way to deal with an active colony with a food source, you are right.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com · 20 pts · 285d
As someone who donates significantly to spay/neuter efforts (in the U.S.), these irresponsible people piss me the fuck off. To the extent that I have cut people out of my social circle over the issue.
AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 285d
My fucking neighbors just keep letting their outdoor only cats reproduce and get mad when they meow for kibble. It's the worst. My county has a well funded TNR and last litter program, but they don't give a shit. I've done TNR of at least 8 or 9 cats and they just keep coming.
These aren't even the completely wild and feral cats or anything (since the shitty neighbors feed them from time to time) although I'm sure their offspring has made some feral cats by now. It's horrible.
SuiXi3D@fedia.io · 16 pts · 285d
I adopted mine, got her spayed, and she absolutely never goes outside. Not that she would, she’s too much of a chicken shit to bother trying to get out.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 285d
New Zealand has no native predators, and cats are extremely good predators.
These aren’t house cats that got lost, these are cats that are entirely wild and are now an invasive species. TNR would still decimate the local fauna while waiting for nature to take its course.
They also can’t be housed like you might do with a house cat turned stray.
as much as I love house cats, in New Zealand, the feral cats are an ecological apocalypse.
IronBird@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 285d
look up austrialian cat plague...at a certain point exterminating them is the only realistic option
MBech@feddit.dk · 89 pts · 285d
To the people thinking "oh poor kitties". In New Zealand, cats are like terminators (or more accurately, Predators from those movies). Pretty much everything evolved to be incredibly easy pray for cats. Sure, it sucks that cats have to die, but they're an incredibly invasive species that hunts the native species to extinction. They should've never been imported in the first place.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 285d
No one in New Zealand actually wants to go around killing cats. Euthanizing them is the tool of last resort, and it’s generally prioritized for areas where urgency is high and other more humane solutions are hard to implement.
You can’t fuck around in an island ecosystem. You have to make hard choices in order to preserve the lives of the native plants and animals.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 284d
Baguette@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 26 pts · 285d
New zealand is extremely prone because its home to flightless birds and other similar species that never grew up against land predators of this nature. That's why cats and even rats are especially dangerous. These flightless birds have no real way of protecting their young and even themselves.
It's sad for cats because we see them as companions and pets, but new zealand holds a lot of critically endangered species that simply cannot exist anywhere else
saltesc@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 285d
All of Oceania is this. There's a lot of unique land animals that evolved with no threat. European colonisation really fucked that entire region and the ecosystems within.
That's for Australia's 3.7M pet cats that aren't kept indoors 24/7. So that's approx 407M native animals killed each year by cat lovers that don't responsibly take care of their cat—71% of cat owners. Factor in other contamination and habitat destruction, you can expect that to be closer or even over half a billion native animals killed each year.
So, yeah, Oceania countries will hunt and kill cats. And anyone that doesn't keep their cat inside or at least bell it's collar, is a real piece of shit. Certainly doesn't give a fuck about animals and the environment. It's a totally different part of the world to Eurasia where it's fine to just have strays all over the countryside because they're actually a part of the functioning ecosystem.
Source: https://biodiversitycouncil.org.au/resources/the-impact-of-roaming-pet-cats-on-australian-wildlife
No1@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 285d
That's pet cats and doesn't count the damage that feral cats do.
Here claims that Australia’s Cats Kill Two Billion Animals Annually, with feral cats killing 1.4 Billion.
I've personally scraped up native birds and possums that were killed by neighbours roaming pet cats. Most not eaten. And some just paralysed and left that I called WIRES wildlife rescue for. It's heartbreaking. These poor little critters didn't deserve an ending like that.
Cats like hunting. Please keep your kitty inside.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works · -11 pts · 285d
Time for them to catch up in evolution's arms race or be left behind with the other failures like the dodo and the dinosaurs
Soggy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 285d
Not how evolution works.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works · -7 pts · 285d
Survival of the fittest? No? Am I a slider? Did I land on a world where natural selection isn't one of the evolutionary pressures on the ecosystem?
nforminvasion@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 285d
One of yes. Along with gene drift and flow, and genetic mutation. But our imperialist, capitalist societies really love to lean into the survival of the fittest as the end all, be all of evolution and life. There's a whole lot more to the complexities of nature even if our "might equals right" societies don't see it.
Qwel@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 283d
saltesc@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 285d
I wouldn't bother. If they're this simple and loud about whatever they think they comprehend of evolution and natural selection concepts, you know them and their cat are ironically nature's food in the first 48 hours detached from society's teet. Lucky for them, we keep getting better at keeping the weakest around. Mike Judge does a good film about it.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works · -3 pts · 285d
I'm sorry that your love of cute, cuddly animals has allowed you to suspend your belief in basic science. I'd hoped you were made of sterner stuff. Perhaps on your next interaction, you could dispense with the backhanded insults and argue the actual point?
obsoleteacct@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 285d
Or the feral cats? Does humanity deciding to cull a species not perfectly fit that model as you imagine it?
wowbaggerip@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 285d
Like humans aren't?
MBech@feddit.dk · 7 pts · 285d
Sure, but try proposing culling people instead and see how far you get...
ameancow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
Fokeu@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 203d
You can start with yourself
wowbaggerip@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 203d
Not part of the problem but thanks anyway!
CovfefeKills@lemmy.world · 61 pts · 285d
Cats must only be indoor pets. We can easily separate pet mice and rats from their feral counterparts and we need to do the same to cats. And I am a cat person big time.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 285d
Same.
Love cats.
Keep them in doors.
Outdoor cats and feral cats are walking, prowling ecological disasters.
xvertigox@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 285d
ameancow@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 284d
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 41 pts · 284d
I wish "middlebrow dismissal" had become a more common term. It basically means a knee-jerk rejection of an idea without seriously engaging or investigating it. A "cache dump of prejudices" rather than argument.
This thread is absolutely filled with people who think they know better than kiwi conservationists that have studied and discussed this topic in depth.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 284d
P1k1e@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 284d
It's still weird to dismiss the insane destructive power of the domestic shorthair. Killing is practically their only pastime
ameancow@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 284d
MelonYellow@lemmy.ca · 31 pts · 285d
Feral cats cause the ultimate destruction to local wildlife. They are so common, one of the worst invasive species. And New Zealand’s an island with precious endemic wildlife not found anywhere else in the world. So yeah - it’s about time! Bravo NZ for doing the right thing.
Edit: They need to do this in Hawaii too!
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 285d
Absolutely. Those cats are destroying boobies. Unforgivable.
Greyghoster@aussie.zone · 25 pts · 285d
Most people have not seen a feral cat and assume that they are just domestic cats living rough. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Savage predators loose in the bush and Australia has millions of them.
fonix232@fedia.io · 20 pts · 285d
Yep, there's a wild difference between "feral" city/suburbia cats, and actual wild feral cats.
I used to live in a pretty rural area in Hungary, butt end of suburbia, backing into the endless fields of wheat and corn, interrupted only by small patches of "woodland" (really just a dozen or so trees occupying a small area, enough to block the view but not big enough to house any larger animals, it's mostly birds, rodents and feral cats).
There used to be maybe ten colonies of feral cats in my immediate area, and those fuckers would fuck you up proper. They hated humans, and would cross half a field, a four lane road, and a canal just to attack you. Many a times I had to run from the bus stop to home to avoid a trip to tetanus and rabies land...
Greyghoster@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 285d
Definitely a cautionary tale.
A1kmm@lemmy.amxl.com · 1 pts · 284d
The terminology in Aus / NZ is pet (owned by people) vs stray (socialised around people but not owned) vs feral (not socialised to people).
Generally speaking, pets & strays like people - they've been handled as a kittens. Pets can become strays and vice versa. But feral cats (past being a kitten) will never become stray / pet (and vice versa) - it is only the next generation that can be raised differently.
While the article is defining feral cats as any cat that isn't a pet, in reality the vast majority of what it is talking about are truly feral cats - nothing like a house cat.
Themosthighstrange@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 285d
australia aiming to be more evil than north korea
harmbugler@piefed.social · 7 pts · 285d
Protecting native species from an invasive predator is not evil.
Greyghoster@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 285d
You have to go a long way to be more evil than NK
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 284d
Cats have the exact same right to bring extinction to this world as we do.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 284d
The indigenous species have priority to exist.
fritobugger2017@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 285d
All domestic cats should be fully indoor cats. Any domestic cats found outdoors should be killed. Nasty little disease spreading song bird killers.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 16 pts · 285d
Not sure why this is such a controversial take. House cats should indeed not be outside, unless they are on a leash.
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 285d
Because people have an extreme case of the feels for cats and judge their morals purely based on what's cute, and are fine with the deaths of cows and other animals but not pets. A disturbing amount of people care about the fully arbitrary distinction between pet and animal
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 284d
Best summary of thread
nforminvasion@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 285d
It's unfortunately far more than just birds. They kill billions of reptiles, fish, amphibians, and mammals each year. Not to mention their toxoplasmosis has been found in ocean otters (just an example of something far removed from the daily goings of a cat) and in the soil and ground water, as well as our foods. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7033973/
fritobugger2017@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 285d
Very true.
FosterMolasses@leminal.space · 12 pts · 284d
I'm sorry, I read this headline like a Dr. Doofenschmirtz plan, ahahahahahaha
baatliwala@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 284d
Perry the Catypus on his way to throw some paws
Tetragrade@leminal.space · 8 pts · 284d
Meow, meo meow meow mao meow, meow meow mrrp meow. Meow meow meow meow meow... 😿
Eezyville@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 283d
TWEET!! Tweet tweet tweet! Tweet tweet tweet tweet tweet tweet tweeeeeet! 🐥
Darkness343@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 285d
Why just not eat them?
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 284d
Darkness
Darkness343@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
Humanity hungers
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 284d
Humanity is overrated
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
Honestly, cat is just pretty gross. Did not like at all, even before I knew what it was. Incredibly greasy, very unpleasantly gamey, weirdly stringy, do not recommend.
Machinist@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 284d
I've never had cat, but have heard that mountain lion is really good. Supposedly, during WWII, lots of house cat was eaten in the UK and was called roof rabbit.
What kind of cat did you have and what were the circumstances?
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
"Cat" (it was cooked, I assume it was a shorthair since there were ample feral shorthairs around), and it was part of a banquet-thing I was at while visiting friends - except sea cucumber (which is revolting it has the exact taste and texture of a loogie) the rest of the food was very good!
(edit: I am not sure british wartime cooking is a great metric to base "Tastes-Goodness" off of)
Machinist@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
I've had raccoon, which was terrible. Never had the chance to try cat.
Sea cucumber is supposed to be a delicacy, but never had it. Sea urchin is amazing in my experience, but someone here on Lemmy said it was awful. It may be a preparation or freshness issue. I'd like to try sea cucumber.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
Never had raccoon, have had opossum and it was... passable. Not something I'd seek out but not bad in a stew.
I can see not liking sea urchin, personally I'm not big on it but it's not, like, bad bad. Just not my thing.
I've had sea cucumber several times and no, man, I encourage you to try it just so that you can share my pain. Cat was deeply eeh, don't recommend, but sea cucumber is "I have dreams about how bad it is" levels of bad - and whats worse, people really do claim it's a delicacy! So you can't just duck under the table and hoark it all out onto your shoes without being rude.
I'd rather snort lines of raw durian than eat sea cucumber again. Seriously if you ever get a chance go for it, it's spectacularly horrible. You gotta try it.
Machinist@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 283d
That sounds terrible. I'll definitely give it a try.
Darkness343@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 283d
My grandma use to sell cat meat saying it was rabbit and people liked it back then
Baguette@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 285d
Funnily enough I just got recommended to rewatch this old vid from tom scott
https://youtu.be/wcp1BfPUeOc
embed_me@programming.dev · 1 pts · 285d
Maybe it's the cadence or the accent but I cannot process anything he is saying
Gates9@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 285d
We are the extinction event
Ogy@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 285d
The dairy industry is significantly more damaging to NZ's ecology than some feral cats. I'm not saying it shouldn't be addressed, but there are measures already in place. It's important to keep perspective and not be distracted by media.
amorangi@lemmy.nz · 21 pts · 285d
It's possible to do two things at a time. Cats and dairy are not mutually exclusive.
Corporal_Punishment@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 284d
Is this gonna be like Australia's war against the Emus? That they lost.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 284d
NZ is quite a bit smaller!
SirActionSack@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 284d
But cats are smaller too which either makes it easier for the Kiwis or more like the Australia/emu situation.
venusaur@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 285d
Save the kiwis!
maxxadrenaline@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 285d
I feel so terrible
Agent641@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 285d
Are you a feral cat?
GiantChickDicks@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 285d
No, probably just someone with empathy who recognizes the shit situation humans created and how it's going to play out in the lives of New Zealand's cats.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 285d
and yet inexplicably isn't vegan
Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 285d
Not sure if it's a cat, but definitely feral.
Zink@programming.dev · 4 pts · 283d
As somebody who (1) loves the beauty of the natural world and (2) lives in the USA, I'm hearing that NZ might be a most excellent place to retire, or even move to earlier.
SendMePhotos@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 285d
With everything deadlined to 2050, I think that is the new end of the world
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 285d
That's just where you put programs that sound good but no one wants to spend the money to actually accomplish them. 2050 might be the end of the world, but it'd be because all the stuff we needed to do to head it off were given "we'll get to it eventually" deadlines.
Squizzy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 283d
Big fan of removing cats from my country in general, they are blight on the native wildlife.
It is not personal but they should all be gone. Boom in mice and rats for a bit after
Hupf@feddit.org · 2 pts · 285d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_the_Mother
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 285d
New Zealand needs its “Emu War” moment.
Zaktor@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 285d
In that they'll discover a task that sounds easy will be practically impossible to accomplish?
BlueEther@no.lastname.nz · 2 pts · 285d
Here is a video of some of the efforts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH_OC0q0FPw
ThePantser@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 285d
Too bad they ain't much good eatin.
miked@piefed.social · 1 pts · 285d
Had a friend from Hong Kong tell cats don't taste good but dogs do. I took his word for it.
neuroneiro@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 285d
Brings back the horrific scene I came across at 14 of a cat arm in a pot.
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 285d
non_burglar@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 285d
General rule of thumb is "don't eat things that eat things". Obviously, there are exceptions for survival cases, but the range of pathogens, parasites, and prions one can contract from eating a predator is much, much wider than that from eating vegetarian animals.
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social · 7 pts · 285d
With fish it is the opposite. Fish that dont eat fish arent usually very good eating. And most fish that eat fish are even cannibalistic of their own species
CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 285d
Biological magnification still occurs with fish though.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 285d
Mercury, it's what's for dinner.
non_burglar@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 285d
Right, good point. I should have specified "mammals".
Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 285d
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 285d
There's also the "each step of the food chain requires 10x more initial input energy" issue with predators. Here is mostly why we eat the animals we eat
maxxadrenaline@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 241d
Well, I’m not a feral cat and I did date a guy who are cat years, but I don’t know he doesn’t wear it anymore. It’s just a costume I used to identify as a furry or human Pup but now it was just so I could work at a bar a leather bar it has nothing to do with dogs and people thought so they wouldn’t even go to a bar. They wouldn’t even try to understand that what you do at a bar as you meet someone you make a conversation you buy a few drinks you drink a few shot Jell-O shots and then you go home and then you call it an evening, but I don’t know. I guess I got so frustrated that it’s a bit of dog just to proof to prove that it has nothing to do with it. I can’t stand puppy stuff anymore. I’m I mean all it was was well when you get older you still need to work and the best place for working in the evenings is to be a bartender or doing clothing and we all get older when we lose our looks so we have to try something new and it has nothing to do about feral cats or anything, but it’s just saying someone wants to see something interesting. They want to see a show a dance performance a comedy event you know everything is a costume at least that’s how I always saw it not a lifestyle just just a costume.
dsilverz@calckey.world · 1 pts · 285d
@MicroWave@lemmy.world @world@lemmy.world
Unfortunately the aforementioned list will never contain the most "stone cold killer", most dangerous predator species of 'em all, because it's a list kept by that very species themselves.
I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 284d
nods knowingly
Wallabies...
SirActionSack@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 284d
Not even ACT are foolish enough to challenge the might of the feral wallaby population
DronePirate@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 283d
Are they going to introduce a bigger possum?
RabbleRebel@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 283d
Lol! Eradicate feral cats by introducing a bigger possum? Classic NZ humor
wowbaggerip@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 285d
I find it kind of amazing that humans will constantly look outwardly as if everything that is happening isn't a direct result of their own failures as nature's caretakers. Yes, let's kill the cats because of all the havoc they're wreaking on our biodiversity but let's also ignore all the havoc that we ourselves continue to wreak. Let's applaud ourselves for caring so much about the environment by slaughtering one of man's two best friends. Irresponsible cat owners aside, there are ways that (key phrase here) cost money that involve a well-known acronym, TNR to combat feral cat populations. They can be re-homed or put aboard ships to tackle rodent problems at sea and become resident sailor cats. There are better ways than blindly dropping poison fucking sausage and installing automatic poison spray machines around town. As if that won't result in any accidental deaths of spayed neighborhood outdoor cats with chips, collars, and loving families. This thread has absolutely lost the plot if everyone agrees with the methods put forth in the article. I can assure you, this is some grade A bs.
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 285d
There are not cheaper ways, though. It's a monumental task and if it is done incompletely, it was pointless to even undertake.
Most feral animals can't just be "re-homed". Cats don't need humans to be happy and to thrive. They don't need a house. They don't need a ship. The most we should do for them is give them a cat island (where they would likely turn cannibal and start consuming each other within a generation).
Auli@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 284d
Have you ever met a truley feral cat they cannot be rehomed.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 284d
dsilverz@calckey.world · 1 pts · 285d
@wowbaggerip@lemmy.world @MicroWave@lemmy.world @world@lemmy.world
While I totally agree with your comment, let me make a highly provocative philosophical musing, not against you, but against the overall idea:
When Homo sapiens were promoted to such a "role"? By whom? Who gave us authority to become "authority" above Mother Nature? And who gave the "divine authority" to the... well, the one who supposedly gave us authority to become "authority"? And who gave that "who" authority?... Somewhere along this chain, someone self-declared "authority" and that's as legit as if a rando were to shout "I am now the king of the cosmos": it's all moot.
Being a caretaker implies being "superior" to what's being taken care of. Implies something that can't take care of itself.
And as far as Nature goes, She's great and She's fine without us humans ("thanks")... in fact, She'd be even finer literally without humans. We may like it or not, but we've been a nuisance to Her eons of existence. Since the advent of civilizations, but especially after petroleum and Industrial Revolution, we've been hurting Her with one hand while declaring ourselves Her "caretakers" with the other hand (trying to hide all the blood stain from that other hand).
As far as Nature goes, there's no such thing as "absolute superior" or "absolute inferior". It shouldn't be. We belong to Nature, we're nothing without Her. A mere days without all the other species, especially polinizers (e.g. bees), necrophages (e.g. vultures) and microscopic life (e.g. gut bacteria!) would be enough for humans to disappear and be swept from the surface of Earth like the cosmic dust we are.
So, no, we aren't superior species, not even by a femtometer. We may be "smart" to ourselves, we may have named ourselves "sapiens" because "look how smart our species are, we climbed down from the trees". We may have sent pieces of molten rocks beyond the Pale Blue Dot. We may have enslaved ourselves like no other species did. We may have no fear of fire. I guess it should be clear to such a "smart species", but: achieving all this doesn't make us deities! Deities don't die, and it just takes a few minutes after all the oxygen and water of Earth escaped to space somehow (after an almighty CME) and we'd all suffocate, even the billionaire and fash people who think they're superior to the rest of the humanity.
Don't get me wrong: we must respect Nature, I'm not advocating against respecting Nature, much to the polar extreme of the contrary, I'm advocating the obvious worldview where it's the Mother Nature predating and ruling over humans, not the other way around. Don't get me wrong: It's that someone needs to point out the facts we, as humans, don't often like to realize, that we're as instinctive animals as all the animals that we crave we'd rule over using our sticks made of molten stone.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · -2 pts · 285d
Do these people actually KNOW any cats? You can't eradicate them. It's impossible, they are WAY smarter than we are.
More likely, they'll get angry at the eradication measures, and eliminate the humans instead.
Don't say I didn't tell you so.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 284d
icelimit@lemmy.ml · -5 pts · 284d
Do cats in new Zealand have a lower than average literacy rate?
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 284d
You know, I can think of one species that's a lot more harmful to the environment. Maybe the cats of NZ should start hunting non-native members of that species.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 284d
cornshark@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
Are... are you talking about humans?
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 284d
Yes, but I think we need to distinguish between the native population, which has proven capable of co-existing with the local ecosystem, and the settlers, who'll need to be culled.
Maybe we can be a little animale and let the aborigines adopt the more tame settlers. Find them nice, loving homes, you know? The rest will unfortunately need to be euthanised.
SirActionSack@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 284d
The Maori brought pigs and had farms. The "noble savage" trope is racist.
Auli@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 284d
So who's native in New Zealand? How long have they been there. Or the fact that they are not white gives them special privileges.
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 283d
You know what, YES! It does! Now go cry about it.
gmtom@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 284d
Aborigines is Australia, the first people of NZ are the Maori and they've only been there since the 1300s
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 283d
So? Please finish that thought.
gmtom@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 283d
That means they have only been their a few centuries, so their is still massive potential harm to the environment that has been their much longer.
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 283d
The ecological impact of an pre-industrial community is generally much smaller than that of an industrial one.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
Given Australia and New Zealand's proximity to one another on the map, it makes sense to assume that the latter was originally settled by explorers from the former; and, indeed, Aboriginal Australian people can be credibly dated back more than 50,000 years, when they were able to walk to the continent from what is now New Guinea.
But no! There's no real archaeological sign of Aboriginal Australians (or anyone else) settling on the island that would become New Zealand until the Maori arrived from Polynesia, around 800 years ago.
I didn't leave out a zero; human habitation on New Zealand has a history of less than a thousand years. In fact, the Maori only beat Europeans to New Zealand (which they called "Aotearoa") by about 300 years, and archaeological records indicate that they brought invasive species with them, too. They also caused the extinction of at least two bird species before European colonization even began.
Maori are great, great people. But I don't think that they've "proven [themselves] capable of co-existing with the local ecosystem" any more than the European descendants have.
(As a side note, the word "aborigines" in that part of the world carries a potentially problematic connotation. Some Aboriginal Australians see it as a holdover from that country's colonial era.)
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 283d
I know. My point is that cats (or the Maori) have a minuscule impact on the environment when compared to settlers.
I see. What would be a more respectful alternative?
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 282d
Most of the birds on New Zealand are flightless, because they evolved without natural ground-based predators (they only had threats from birds of prey). Cats' impact on the avian population is actually pretty dramatic.
Meanwhile, a significant percentage of the islands remains undeveloped. The population of the entire country is only five million, on a landmass larger than the British Isles (population 65m+). Human settlement in NZ is actually pretty light-touch, which is why a ton of movies that need lush outdoor sets are shot there.
As I understand it, most of that group prefer "Aboriginal Australian."
Formfiller@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 284d
Remember when Europe burned all the cats and that caused the plague to get a lot more out of control? I’m sure it will work out this time though
ameancow@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 284d
Formfiller@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 284d
It’s called a joke settle down
ameancow@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 284d
Auli@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 284d
Cats are causing lots of harm to the native wildlife there. You know since they didn't evolve with things similar to cats.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 284d
I was kidding
Themosthighstrange@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
Ten years from now, NZ in chaos as rats swarm the country
SirActionSack@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 284d
The Department of Conservation is very good at controlling rats, possums and stoats. It's harder to control cats (and dogs) because of irresponsible owners.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 284d
Lol yeah
oatscoop@midwest.social · 2 pts · 284d
Has sanitation, pest control, and medicine have advanced since the 13th century?
No ... we still need cats to do all the heavy lifting.
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 284d
I was really just joking but people really melted down
LuigiMaoFrance@lemmy.ml · -12 pts · 285d
Maybe humans should quit playing god and trying to enforce the ecology they deem correct.
Fuck it, if they're so well adapted, let cats wipe out everything they get their claws on and have them be the new evolutionary starting point. Maybe in a few hundred thousand years we'll have entirely new winged or underwater feline subspecies, perfectly adapted to every remaining ecological niche.
It would certainly be funnier than this constant battle against windmills of our own making.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 284d
Auli@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 284d
But we caused the problem. Cats would not be there without stupid people. There are a lot of irresponsible cat owners. Oh my cat has to go outside oh blah blah blah.
Themosthighstrange@lemmy.world · -17 pts · 285d
whats up with all the cat hating nazi's here ?
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 285d
Well for one they probably like kiwi and kakapo more, one are endangered and another one is critically endangered. And this applied to cat that roam outside and have no dependency on human.
Ironically if anything, house cat kill for fun and will kill everything that move and smaller than them, so kinda like nazi. And i said that as a dad of 4 cats. Cats are cute, and i wish it doesn't come to this, but other animal deserve a chance to live too.
spacesatan@leminal.space · 11 pts · 285d
toxoplasma gondii spotted
Lexam@lemmy.world · -49 pts · 285d
Umm feed them. Then they're not feral, their babies.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de · 34 pts · 285d
Thats how you get MORE feral cats lmao
gustofwind@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 285d
Profoundly disconnected from reality moment
Mk23simp@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 23 pts · 285d
I am a big fan of cats. However, if they live outside, they are feral. And they should not be allowed to keep living outside.
My preferred solution would be for people to take them in and feed them, but you definitely should not be feeding them while they are still living outside. Outdoor cats cause a lot of destruction to the ecosystem by overhunting small animals such as songbirds, even to the point of extinction.
einkorn@feddit.org · 17 pts · 285d
Then they start hunting for sports.
Cats are an invasive species in NZ, which has a lot more small critters living on the ground because there are no native predators to them.
fritobugger2017@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 285d
Cats are invasive everywhere. Start killing every stray and then maybe cat lovers will be more responsible.
einkorn@feddit.org · 0 pts · 285d
Now that's quite a hot take. Various Felines are native to almost every part of the world, except, i.e. NZ.
The overpopulation is the issue. Not their existance.
fritobugger2017@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 285d
Not talking about actual wild felines but domestic cats that are allowed to be out doors by their owners or abandoned to live out doors. Their simple existence out doors is the issue.
MBech@feddit.dk · 2 pts · 285d
Depends on your location. They're really not a problem in Europe, since we hunted everything to extinction ourself.
fritobugger2017@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 285d
Well done?
fullsquare@awful.systems · 2 pts · 285d
more like task failed successfully
nforminvasion@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 285d
Do us all a favor and go try to hug a feral cat.
Jhex@lemmy.world · -25 pts · 285d
yes but leave it to politicians to do everything in the worst possible way
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 285d
Yeah, well fed house cats never bring home dead mice and birds.
🤦♂️
nocturne@slrpnk.net · 8 pts · 285d
If the cat is a strictly indoor cat and is bringing you dead mice and birds, you may have a problem with mice and birds in your house.
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 285d
Well, Polly had it coming
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 285d
Well... yeah. Nowhere near the point, but you said a thing that was true.
Jhex@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 285d
I keep mine indoors… and our city sterilizes feral cats and lets them go again if they cannot be adopted timely
A much humane approach that limits the harm a cat could do in the wild
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 285d
That's not harm reduction. Letting then go is ecocide. And it isn't even humane. Feral cats are feral, they can't be adopted. Better to humanely put them down.
Jhex@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 285d
they are not even been added to the kill list for 25 more years… it's either not that urgent or this is just virtue signaling from politicians
ps: x for doubt on any "humanely" thing proposed by politicians
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 285d
Harm reduction isn't really sufficient when every single feral cat kills presumably hundreds of criticially endangered birds per year, is it?
Jhex@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 285d
they are not even adding them to the kill list for another 25 years… can't be that urgent, or politicians always solve issues in the worst possible way
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 285d
You misunderstand, the project aims to have them eradicated by 2050, not starting to eradicate them in 2050. The project isn't called Predator Free 2050 for no reason.
Jhex@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 285d
Ah, I see... thanks for the correction