Let me say that I do believe that the Israeli government is committing genocide. And they believe they are too. They've said the quiet part out loud. They don't want to live in peace with the Palestinians.
At this point, it's clear that the ongoing genocide is not a retaliation. The Oct 7 attacks were simply an excuse to escalate their genocide and complete the occupation of Palestine. This is common practice in invasions and wars, there's very rarely a solid reason for war beyond seizing resources like land or oil.
In 2022 the crude death rate across Gaza and West Bank was 3.0/1000pop/year.
In 2023 it was 7.0/1000pop/year.
I expect Gaza specific stats are worse. Maybe someone else has further info they can cite, perhaps also relating to 2024-2025, but like others have said, such data is difficult to collect when Israel repeatedly bombs hospitals and their personnel.
It's an odd premise, and ideally Rowland would have noticed and objected to the question.
Criticism of a country's actions (and in fact, it's really an implied criticism of a regime and its military) is not a threat to Jewish Australians. It may frustrate Zionists, but Zionism is a political movement, it is not a nation, religion or ethnicity. If a Zionist happens to be a Jewish Australian, it is coincidence - I know plenty of Australian Zionists who are not Jewish, and I know plenty of Jewish Australians who are anti-Zionist.
For an analogy, the interviewer's question would be as ridiculous as someone asking if it would be illegal to claim the historic Nazi regime committed genocide of Jewish, Slavic, Romani, etc. peoples, and as a result made "white" Australians feel intimidated.
It does seem, law as written, that this is the case, even to the Nazi extreme. That's because it was a knee-jerk hastily, badly, written piece of legislation that was passed rammed through with the help of the Liberals, always a bad sign.
That's the generous position, less generously it could have been sitting there waiting for an excuse (never let a good crisis go to waste and all that), intended to further dampen and complicate the right to protest.
ETA: “Those who made peaceful reform impossible have made violent revolution inevitable.” - John F. Kennedy
and as a result made “white” Australians feel intimidated.
I'd say it's more if it was said to make German-Australians feel intimidated, rather than all the white ones. My Irish-Scottish grandparents were all in WW2 fighting against the Nazis in some manner. I'd never call a German friend out for Germany's Nazi history as that's not them as a person. Much like I wouldn't call out a Australian-Jewish friend for Israel's (Netanyahu's) actions today. PS: Fuck Netanyahu.
The vast majority of Israelis support the genocide - far more than support their government. It's a fair generalization of Israeli society. The "not all Israelis" point is both obvious and pedantic.
It's a fair generalisation of the Israeli polity. The same way I judge Japan as a country for never really apologising for their warcrimes, but never hold it against an individual.
That's just prejudice.
That being said, fuck Israel, and fuck these stupid laws that may end up in criticism of a state being illegal.
Who is holding against an individual? I think it's obvious that when someone blames Israelis they don't literally mean every single Israeli. That's why I used the word "pedantic". Sure, in absolute terms what he said is correct but, at the same time, expecting that level of guarded language practically makes conversation impossible.
They should be ashamed, no better than house slaves spitting on the field slave. Like a black white supremacist, if you are a Muslim who considers yourself to be Israeli then you are Clayton Bigsby, Uncle Ruckus, Samuel L Jackson from Django unchained.
American here: we played this game leading up to our last election. Don't let them get away with this. Remember the power of truth in your words. Keep calling this a genocide.
I'll be honest, I really never understood this zionist thing. How come they have so much power over protestant countries? the wiki says its a movement to establish a jew only land in current Palestine.
A Jewish homeland being restored around Jerusalem is meant to be one of the signs of the apocalypse. Christians want nothing more than the world to end. Its a huge part of the religion.
the wiki says its a movement to establish a jew only land in current Palestine.
More or less, yes.
How come they have so much power over protestant countries?
Long story short, they proved themselves in the 1940s to be a powerful force in the region. The Middle East is known to be rich in resources such as petroleum oil, and it also has major trade routes like the Suez Canal (I'm sure you saw the impact of the Evergreen blockage) and land routes through Afghanistan, Iran, etc.. One can see how important the region is in China's Belt and Road Initiative. So, having a military outpost able to credibly threaten this region with overwhelming force is a very powerful tool for Western imperial powers like the US and (historical) NATO allies.
So, the Zionist Regime has influence over these countries because they want the Zionist Regime to help us keep power in the region.
These are flimsy slogans: The prison colony of Australia always had wardens in charge. And if one considers Australia to be "authoritarian", then what states aren't authoritarian? Wouldn't we at least be siding with Russia, Iran, and North Korea? Australia sides with the Zionist Regime because of our imperialism; because our rich can get richer by war profiteering.
The specific criteria is "that would, in all the circumstances, cause a reasonable person who is the target, or a member of the target group, to be intimidated, to fear harassment or violence, or to fear for their safety".
There are all manner of exceptions and qualifications. Yes, under certain circumstances saying "Israel is committing genocide" might pass the test. Just saying it as a statement of fact is not alone enough to be a crime.
The title is misleading. Michelle Rowland says it will be illegal if certain specific other criteria are met.
50 Comments
DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone · 55 pts · 198d
Let me say that I do believe that the Israeli government is committing genocide. And they believe they are too. They've said the quiet part out loud. They don't want to live in peace with the Palestinians.
Seagoon_@aussie.zone · -65 pts · 198d
Can you tell us how many people have died of natural causes in Gaza over the past 27 months?
If you don't have the statistics are you able to extrapolate from past statistics?
Also, who broke the peace agreement on Oct 07 2023?
Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone · 27 pts · 198d
How have you still not copped a ban for repeated genocide denial?
golden@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 198d
Instance admins support them and their alts.
eureka@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 197d
Do you want to supply some evidence when you make accusations about our instance?
golden@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 197d
Lack of action speaks for itself. I'll retract my statement when people like Seagoon are banned.
eureka@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 197d
No, it doesn't. They're not omnipotent.
And it would honestly be helpful if you have evidence of any alt accounts, because those will need to be banned.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 197d
Prove them wrong
eureka@aussie.zone · 0 pts · 197d
No investigation, no right to shitpost.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 196d
Cope
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 197d
We can’t tell you because Israel purposely bombed all the hospitals and killed the journalist
Objection@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 198d
Zionazis are not welcome here.
trk@aussie.zone · 15 pts · 197d
DancingBear@midwest.social · 13 pts · 197d
DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone · 9 pts · 198d
The Hamas attack on October 7 was also wrong and bad. No excuses there. But there has to be limits on retaliation.
eureka@aussie.zone · 15 pts · 197d
At this point, it's clear that the ongoing genocide is not a retaliation. The Oct 7 attacks were simply an excuse to escalate their genocide and complete the occupation of Palestine. This is common practice in invasions and wars, there's very rarely a solid reason for war beyond seizing resources like land or oil.
rcbrk@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 197d
According to worldbank.org:
I expect Gaza specific stats are worse. Maybe someone else has further info they can cite, perhaps also relating to 2024-2025, but like others have said, such data is difficult to collect when Israel repeatedly bombs hospitals and their personnel.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 197d
You're losing and you know it
star@aussie.zone · 34 pts · 198d
It's an odd premise, and ideally Rowland would have noticed and objected to the question.
Criticism of a country's actions (and in fact, it's really an implied criticism of a regime and its military) is not a threat to Jewish Australians. It may frustrate Zionists, but Zionism is a political movement, it is not a nation, religion or ethnicity. If a Zionist happens to be a Jewish Australian, it is coincidence - I know plenty of Australian Zionists who are not Jewish, and I know plenty of Jewish Australians who are anti-Zionist.
For an analogy, the interviewer's question would be as ridiculous as someone asking if it would be illegal to claim the historic Nazi regime committed genocide of Jewish, Slavic, Romani, etc. peoples, and as a result made "white" Australians feel intimidated.
Zagorath@aussie.zone · 35 pts · 198d
And yet the position of the government seems to disagree with you.
Which is precisely why the law is so problematic.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 198d
The law was explicitly created for this. Israel succesfully weaponized the Bondi shooting to ban criticism of Israel.
MalReynolds@slrpnk.net · 20 pts · 198d
It does seem, law as written, that this is the case, even to the Nazi extreme. That's because it was a knee-jerk hastily, badly, written piece of legislation that was
passedrammed through with the help of the Liberals, always a bad sign.That's the generous position, less generously it could have been sitting there waiting for an excuse (never let a good crisis go to waste and all that), intended to further dampen and complicate the right to protest.
ETA: “Those who made peaceful reform impossible have made violent revolution inevitable.” - John F. Kennedy
SaneMartigan@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 197d
I'd say it's more if it was said to make German-Australians feel intimidated, rather than all the white ones. My Irish-Scottish grandparents were all in WW2 fighting against the Nazis in some manner. I'd never call a German friend out for Germany's Nazi history as that's not them as a person. Much like I wouldn't call out a Australian-Jewish friend for Israel's (Netanyahu's) actions today. PS: Fuck Netanyahu.
jimmy90@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 198d
that coincidence is very highly probable given the vast majority of israelis and zionists are jewish, hence the problem
and the softer version of zionism and israeli nationalism is something most western governments deem totally legal
Eyekaytee@aussie.zone · -5 pts · 198d
Aussieiuszko@aussie.zone · 32 pts · 198d
Israel is committing a genocide.
Zionism is a hate ideology.
Aneb@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 198d
Zionist ≠ Jew
Zionist = Nazi
Palestine > Israel
Fleur_@aussie.zone · 21 pts · 197d
Well, guess I can no longer act all smug to Americans online
E: obligatory Israel is committing a genocide
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 197d
Israel is committing a genocide and what hold do they have over the entire world that we’re not allowed to talk about it?
eureka@aussie.zone · 9 pts · 197d
Let's not give Israel all the credit for the Australian governments' complicity and the weapon parts we send over.
Australia is an imperial power too, you just hear less about the islands our police occupy.
observes_depths@aussie.zone · 18 pts · 198d
So you just say, Israel is committing genocide (it's ok to be jewish/Israeli).
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 198d
It is not okay to be Israeli
pineapple@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 198d
No. Just because you live in iseral doesnt mean you support your govenment.
Tinidril@midwest.social · 3 pts · 197d
The vast majority of Israelis support the genocide - far more than support their government. It's a fair generalization of Israeli society. The "not all Israelis" point is both obvious and pedantic.
MisterFrog@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 183d
It's a fair generalisation of the Israeli polity. The same way I judge Japan as a country for never really apologising for their warcrimes, but never hold it against an individual.
That's just prejudice.
That being said, fuck Israel, and fuck these stupid laws that may end up in criticism of a state being illegal.
Tinidril@midwest.social · 1 pts · 182d
Who is holding against an individual? I think it's obvious that when someone blames Israelis they don't literally mean every single Israeli. That's why I used the word "pedantic". Sure, in absolute terms what he said is correct but, at the same time, expecting that level of guarded language practically makes conversation impossible.
MisterFrog@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 182d
The second-level comment is.
"It's not okay to be Israeli" is a different statement than: Israelis are doing xyz and are bad for it.
I do agree that in most cases this doesn't need to be specified, but "It's not okay to be Israeli" is a blanket statement against individuals.
I suggest we stop talking further though, as it does not seem we disagree very much.
Seagoon_@aussie.zone · -9 pts · 198d
How about being a Muslim Israeli, is that ok? There are over 2 million Muslim Israelis.
DistrictSIX@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 198d
They're called Palestinians. Repeat after me: PALESTINIAN.
BrickEater@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 198d
They should be ashamed, no better than house slaves spitting on the field slave. Like a black white supremacist, if you are a Muslim who considers yourself to be Israeli then you are Clayton Bigsby, Uncle Ruckus, Samuel L Jackson from Django unchained.
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 198d
That is a really shitty way to do captions.
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 197d
That's a lot of words to say yes
Bluetreefrog@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 197d
What the actual fuck!
fartographer@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 197d
American here: we played this game leading up to our last election. Don't let them get away with this. Remember the power of truth in your words. Keep calling this a genocide.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · 8 pts · 197d
Such fucking bullshit
Zionists are filth, and it's a disgrace how much influence religion has in Australian politics
Christianity has dominated, but Judaism has always been there too
Cunts
Free Palestine, fuck Israel.
Gonzako@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 197d
I'll be honest, I really never understood this zionist thing. How come they have so much power over protestant countries? the wiki says its a movement to establish a jew only land in current Palestine.
CXORA@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 197d
A Jewish homeland being restored around Jerusalem is meant to be one of the signs of the apocalypse. Christians want nothing more than the world to end. Its a huge part of the religion.
eureka@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 197d
More or less, yes.
Long story short, they proved themselves in the 1940s to be a powerful force in the region. The Middle East is known to be rich in resources such as petroleum oil, and it also has major trade routes like the Suez Canal (I'm sure you saw the impact of the Evergreen blockage) and land routes through Afghanistan, Iran, etc.. One can see how important the region is in China's Belt and Road Initiative. So, having a military outpost able to credibly threaten this region with overwhelming force is a very powerful tool for Western imperial powers like the US and (historical) NATO allies.
So, the Zionist Regime has influence over these countries because they want the Zionist Regime to help us keep power in the region.
CXORA mentioned the Evangelical Christianity aspect of it, which is real, but I consider that to be more the cultural propaganda reason than the underlying material reason.
nonentity@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 197d
Australia is a colony of convicts which ‘grew’ into a nation of wardens.
Authoritarian states will always side with their peers over their citizens.
eureka@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 197d
These are flimsy slogans: The prison colony of Australia always had wardens in charge. And if one considers Australia to be "authoritarian", then what states aren't authoritarian? Wouldn't we at least be siding with Russia, Iran, and North Korea? Australia sides with the Zionist Regime because of our imperialism; because our rich can get richer by war profiteering.
Tenderizer@aussie.zone · 0 pts · 192d
The specific criteria is "that would, in all the circumstances, cause a reasonable person who is the target, or a member of the target group, to be intimidated, to fear harassment or violence, or to fear for their safety".
There are all manner of exceptions and qualifications. Yes, under certain circumstances saying "Israel is committing genocide" might pass the test. Just saying it as a statement of fact is not alone enough to be a crime.
The title is misleading. Michelle Rowland says it will be illegal if certain specific other criteria are met.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 191d
Other critiria like arbitrary designations of a group by the government.