For data center shit, it’s probably up in the 70-80% range (unless you’re also running shitloads of H100s or A100s or whatever top of the line is these days)
There's no guarantee that AI companies will need this amount of product indefinitely, while PC manufactures will always need RAM. Alienating them would be commercially foolish.
They do this because everyone else allows them to. I think computer and device manufacturers have more leverage than RAM manufacturers if they join together. Yet they don't, because today's management class is vastly incompetent.
My base starting point parts list (full build with 9800x3d, 64GB/4TB, 9700xt) was 2000usd about five months ago when it was last used to base a build on.
It's currently 'down' to about 3400 after peaking last week at over 3500. The excess is nearly entirely from RAM and SSD prices.
What could they possibly do that needs that much RAM that does not provide an income.
64 GB is more than just a bit of extra memory. 32 is enough even if you are running docker containers.
Just buying RAM for the sake of it and then complaining about lack of affordability is not a helpful thing. Yes RAM was cheap so people did that. But you can just not do that and be mostly fine.
I have 64 GB in my CAD machine, unfortunately or fortunately it doesn't really make use of it like systems used to 15 years ago. Many CAD tools write portions to nvme temp drive folders now and don't fill RAM, that way the companies can claim a lower hardware spec (at least thats my theory on why they no longer max it out)
I personally use like 40gb of ram opening up city skylines and rimworld before I started compressing textures. VMs, video editing, 3d modeling are all ram demons and are all hobbies people have.
There are plenty of workloads that need 64 to 128 gb of ram.
If you dont do that stuff as a job and do it as a hobby theres no reason not to have it in your personal rig. Ram was dirt cheap and if you've got a top tier CPU you may as well go hard.
Even if it provides an income that doesn't necessarily mean they've got an employer financing it or that they're super well-off. Freelancers and contractors exist after all.
For me, an upgrade from 32 GB to 64 or more would benefit my work, but not to a degree that I want to pay current RAM prices for it. I'm not suddenly going to get 10 hours of work done in 8 just because the RAM intensive parts of my workflow take 10x less time because it's no longer all happening in swap. It'd be more like 10 hours of work done in 9.5. Adds up over time, but also a pretty small difference to even account for.
A CPU upgrade would currently be more important for me though, that might literally save me an hour or two per day depending on what I'm doing and how much shit needs to get done. 5950x starting to look mighty attractive compared to my 3500x.
Back in my day when RAM was cheap, 8GB is worthless, 16GB is minimum spec to do anything remotely productive, 32GB covers 98% of scenarios, and 64GB is ehh why not at least this way I never have to worry about it.
Not OP but 64gb of ram will let them run some good sized AI models locally along with their video card. Definitely enough to play around with things now and in the future.
We're not discussing 'typical' workloads (whatever that is), we're discussing one specific person's use case, and you've somehow decided you know better than him without any information
Hopefully, as a side effect of the current situation, software developers will be a bit more mindful of ram consumption. The "just buy more RAM bro" argument isn't really working nowadays.
Fortunately you can save money by not buying HP PCs.
If run prices get out of hand don't buy more RAM don't upgrade your computer don't give them your money and then when the bubble pops continue not to give them your money. All these manufacturers need to fail
47 Comments
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 51 pts · 191d
Holy fuck. That is insane. It used to be something like 5-10% max.
qupada@fedia.io · 27 pts · 191d
35% is the kind of numbers I used to have on servers at work, which often feature >2TB of RAM.
(another similar percentage being the CPUs, 128 cores per socket doesn't come cheap)
Seeing those numbers for desktop hardware, "holy fuck" is about right.
Gladaed@feddit.org · 5 pts · 191d
Yeah. Scientific and high performance compute are really eating it on ram prices right now.
And using less memory is much harder than just opening fewer browser tabs.
Software is designed to eat memory for it was very cheap in the past. Well, comparatively.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 191d
For data center shit, it’s probably up in the 70-80% range (unless you’re also running shitloads of H100s or A100s or whatever top of the line is these days)
SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 191d
And it's never going away because the technology for RAM by subscription is right around the corner.
village604@adultswim.fan · 1 pts · 191d
VDI has been a thing for over a decade now.
Damage@feddit.it · 32 pts · 191d
PC manufacturers should grow some balls and tell RAM suppliers to lower the price or lose their business forever.
TacoSocks@infosec.pub · 34 pts · 191d
The RAM suppliers would probably be thrilled to end those consumer contracts, they could allocate more to high paying AI.
Damage@feddit.it · 13 pts · 191d
There's no guarantee that AI companies will need this amount of product indefinitely, while PC manufactures will always need RAM. Alienating them would be commercially foolish.
hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 190d
Foolish in the long term, but quite effective in the short term.
I don't disagree, but it seems their priorities are not on long term stability.
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 190d
They do this because everyone else allows them to. I think computer and device manufacturers have more leverage than RAM manufacturers if they join together. Yet they don't, because today's management class is vastly incompetent.
droans@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 190d
That's exactly why they can alienate them. The PC manufacturers don't really have many vendors to choose from.
Damage@feddit.it · 2 pts · 190d
For now. Would you risk a long-standing relationship with your most important customers for a temporary boost in income?
droans@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 190d
Wouldn't be the first time. They got caught in a huge price-fixing scandal just about a decade back and nothing changed.
And again, where are the customers going to go? There's only so much capacity and no one's building new plants.
Damage@feddit.it · 1 pts · 190d
so far
pepperonisalami@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 191d
Agreed, which is stupid to put everything to AI but no consumer to use the goddamned AI 😮💨
mushroomman_toad@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 190d
good luck negotiating with the AI cartel
adarza@lemmy.ca · 26 pts · 191d
My base starting point parts list (full build with 9800x3d, 64GB/4TB, 9700xt) was 2000usd about five months ago when it was last used to base a build on.
It's currently 'down' to about 3400 after peaking last week at over 3500. The excess is nearly entirely from RAM and SSD prices.
Gladaed@feddit.org · -18 pts · 191d
You include double of the ram you realistically need. Why?
starblursd@lemmy.zip · 28 pts · 191d
Double the ram that YOU realistically need but maybe not of the RAM that they need.. perhaps they do more than just gaming?
Gladaed@feddit.org · -15 pts · 191d
What could they possibly do that needs that much RAM that does not provide an income.
64 GB is more than just a bit of extra memory. 32 is enough even if you are running docker containers.
Just buying RAM for the sake of it and then complaining about lack of affordability is not a helpful thing. Yes RAM was cheap so people did that. But you can just not do that and be mostly fine.
MoogleMaestro@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 191d
64gb of ram is very useful for 3d modeling and other hobby arts.
Used to be cheap AF too. Shame
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 191d
I have 64 GB in my CAD machine, unfortunately or fortunately it doesn't really make use of it like systems used to 15 years ago. Many CAD tools write portions to nvme temp drive folders now and don't fill RAM, that way the companies can claim a lower hardware spec (at least thats my theory on why they no longer max it out)
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 6 pts · 191d
I personally use like 40gb of ram opening up city skylines and rimworld before I started compressing textures. VMs, video editing, 3d modeling are all ram demons and are all hobbies people have.
There are plenty of workloads that need 64 to 128 gb of ram.
Gladaed@feddit.org · -2 pts · 190d
Yeah. But not in a personal rig. Professional compute + shit like that is suffering much more. Which is what I was saying.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 190d
If you dont do that stuff as a job and do it as a hobby theres no reason not to have it in your personal rig. Ram was dirt cheap and if you've got a top tier CPU you may as well go hard.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 191d
You are right, people overbuild. And if they log ovwrall system load its probably so low on a home server.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 190d
Even if it provides an income that doesn't necessarily mean they've got an employer financing it or that they're super well-off. Freelancers and contractors exist after all.
For me, an upgrade from 32 GB to 64 or more would benefit my work, but not to a degree that I want to pay current RAM prices for it. I'm not suddenly going to get 10 hours of work done in 8 just because the RAM intensive parts of my workflow take 10x less time because it's no longer all happening in swap. It'd be more like 10 hours of work done in 9.5. Adds up over time, but also a pretty small difference to even account for.
A CPU upgrade would currently be more important for me though, that might literally save me an hour or two per day depending on what I'm doing and how much shit needs to get done. 5950x starting to look mighty attractive compared to my 3500x.
Gladaed@feddit.org · 1 pts · 190d
Saving 2 hours a week is about the price of ram in a month or two.
Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip · 8 pts · 191d
Back in my day when RAM was cheap, 8GB is worthless, 16GB is minimum spec to do anything remotely productive, 32GB covers 98% of scenarios, and 64GB is ehh why not at least this way I never have to worry about it.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 191d
Taps my SAMBA and MiniDlna server on the top, this baby doin' fine at 256MB. Seriously, it doesn't even use the full amount of RAM.
FippleStone@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 190d
That's a very liberal stretch of that meme format, I love it
Gladaed@feddit.org · -7 pts · 191d
Why are you doing anything productive on your home PC?
You certainly got a right to, but in my experience 16 gb are enough while 32 are plenty. If I am at work I want more.
Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip · 9 pts · 191d
Productive hobbies, multitasking while gaming, ... Optimizing my media collection... Astrophotography.
suicidaleggroll@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 190d
The absolute narcissism in this take is mind-boggling. “I don’t do anything that needs more than 32 GB of RAM, therefore you don’t either”
Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 191d
Future proofing and/or "retiring" the computer to home server duty when its time to build again (thats what im telling myself at any rate)
Edit: plus i have heard that DDR5 has issues with more than 2 sticks of RAM. Not sure the specifics though
Gladaed@feddit.org · -6 pts · 191d
Then buy extra when the shortage has subsided. While you are too small to harm anyone you are not doing anyone any favors.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 191d
Not OP but 64gb of ram will let them run some good sized AI models locally along with their video card. Definitely enough to play around with things now and in the future.
Gladaed@feddit.org · -6 pts · 191d
That's not a typical home use work load for gamers.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 190d
And because he posted in a gaming community he can't have any other use for it?
I game, I dabble in local AIs.
He could do all sorts of stuff that might need it.
dupelet_comments@piefed.social · 6 pts · 190d
We're not discussing 'typical' workloads (whatever that is), we're discussing one specific person's use case, and you've somehow decided you know better than him without any information
chunes@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 190d
https://collapseos.org/ suddenly starting to look a little less batshit
Xorg_Broke_Again@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 190d
Hopefully, as a side effect of the current situation, software developers will be a bit more mindful of ram consumption. The "just buy more RAM bro" argument isn't really working nowadays.
winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 190d
Just rent more bro
Routhinator@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 190d
Just download more bro.
echodot@feddit.uk · 12 pts · 191d
Fortunately you can save money by not buying HP PCs.
If run prices get out of hand don't buy more RAM don't upgrade your computer don't give them your money and then when the bubble pops continue not to give them your money. All these manufacturers need to fail
webp@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 190d
Mmmm chocolate bars