In a letter sent Thursday to Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, the lawmakers say that because VPNs obscure a user's true location, and because intelligence agencies presume that communications of unknown origin are foreign, Americans may be inadvertently waiving the privacy protections they're entitled to under the law.
Several federal agencies, including the FBI, NSA, and FTC, have recommended that consumers use VPNs to protect their privacy. But following that advice may inadvertently cost Americans the very protections they're seeking.
The letter was signed by members of the Democratic Party’s progressive flank: Senators Ron Wyden, Elizabeth Warren, Edward Markey, and Alex Padilla, along with Representatives Pramila Jayapal and Sara Jacobs.
72 Comments
schwim@piefed.zip · 169 pts · 148d
We have no protections and no privacy, laws or no.
f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz · 117 pts · 148d
Old news... If you are using a VPN, it's "foreign communications" and subject to spying; and if you aren't using a VPN, they route the data through a room that's considered a foreign enclave (like an embassy), turning it into "foreign communications" and subject to spying.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 147d
Not sure if you're being facetious, but you're actually correct.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 106 pts · 148d
So in the US, locking your metaphorical doors or windows, or closing your digital curtains, means that authorities can presume you are hiding something and your 4th Amendments rights cease to be valid.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 63 pts · 148d
All while abusing Third Party Doctrine to buy your data from advertisers and Palantir anyway.
If a VPN routing of someone in Chicago is via Texas and California, what judge would see that as "foreign"? Oh, right, one of their idiot ones they like to give cases like this.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 147d
Well, while I agree with that sentiment, you may be looking at it the wrong way.
It's not that locking your doors gives them permission, it's that they're just doing it whether you lock your doors or not.
Imagine you're the NSA, imagine you're already spying on every American who isn't using a VPN (not because you have any legal right to, but because you can). Now ask yourself, where's your biggest blind spot?
This is why they want legal permission to spy on people using VPNs. If they can do it legally, they can just walk right into a VPN's server room and install whatever eyes they want on the inside.
All I'm saying, is that there is no constitutional justification for this, they don't care. Their plan is simple, spy on everyone, fuck the law.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 147d
Only if you also claim to be in a foreign country, apparently.
Tempus_Fugit@lemmy.world · 77 pts · 148d
Lmao, what privacy protections? This is the land of the grift, you're more protected using a VPN than without one.
cmeu@lemmy.world · 75 pts · 148d
I hate the way this is getting it twisted.
Just because your signal is misinterpreted does not mean you've waived your rights. It means their system and it's use of citizen's data is flawed and violates the law.
Greyghoster@aussie.zone · 14 pts · 148d
I thought the law said that inadvertent collection has to be deleted asap not that you forfeited your rights.
cmeu@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 148d
Right? The real irony is that those who are paid to enforce the law, and who're sworn to uphold it, feel they're above it - beyond reproach.
The system is sick with apathy and outright corruption.
We must save ourselves
HubertManne@piefed.social · 68 pts · 148d
Did they stop spying on americans. Im pretty sure snowden is still living in russia.
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 34 pts · 148d
America should have took him seriously.
I really think there's no worth in the average American people anymore.
GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 148d
I took him seriously. I was a teenager when Snowden leaked those documents, and I took it seriously.
Why do you think I'm here today?
HubertManne@piefed.social · 24 pts · 148d
Yeah it was pretty big. So much of modern times it just boggles my mind for anyone who grew up in the 80's. We are literally how we portrayed russia or what we would become like if we let communism win. A whistle blower had to flee to russia. 100% bin laden won. Half my life has been in this millenium and there is a stark difference before and after (even with there being plenty which headed us in this direction).
Ghostie@lemmy.zip · 61 pts · 148d
chunes@lemmy.world · 53 pts · 148d
lmao
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 32 pts · 148d
Yeah. That really jumped out at me. My very first thought was “Americans have privacy protections?” Since Roe v Wade was overturned, Americans have basically no right to privacy.
empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 42 pts · 148d
I already assume the gubmint can see everything else I do. The VPN just keeps my ISP from cancelling my service.
trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf · 38 pts · 148d
The entirety of this has made me furious so I'm leaving a comment to remember to come back and soapbox in a bit.
trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf · 20 pts · 148d
https://www.scribd.com/document/1017859680/Congressional-VPN-Letter-to-Dni
And the letter (because these asshats make these things difficult to find)
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev · 6 pts · 148d
Lemmy, where the ND people are aware enough to know that by nature they get impulsively angry and need to cool off. I am not good at it.
ripcord@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 148d
I can't tell which, if any, of these are what "ND" is supposed to mean here.
So, uh, "ND"?
ProfessorProteus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 148d
My guess is "neurodivergent" which, interestingly, doesn't seem to be on that list.
MOARbid1@piefed.social · 2 pts · 148d
Neurodivergent?
NinePeedles@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 148d
Sorry. That wasn’t the list.
Skankhunt420@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 148d
He probably means Neuro Divergent
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 38 pts · 148d
As if they weren't already scooping up people's information already. The point of VPN and other defenses is just to make investigation too expensive to do as a free action.
isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 146d
Reminder that VPNs are mostly pointless for privacy if you post on Facebook and don't make your browser hard to fingerprint and track.
BassTurd@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 148d
I'm curious how this works in action. If you use a VPN provider that doesn't do logging, and inherently you're traffic is encrypted via that VPN, what are they spying on? That's kind of the whole purpose of running a VPN in the first place.
If they happen to somehow see the unencrypted traffic, I hope they enjoy sifting through ass loads of torrent data. Good luck, shit bags.
frongt@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 148d
It's not so much spying as moving you to the front of the line for suspicious persons.
krashmo@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 148d
I hope I'm there already. If I'm not then I'm not being vocal enough about how much I despise the current US government
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 148d
I hope I'm on that list already, I'm a waste of their time
THE_GR8_MIKE@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 148d
I hope they have fun watching me pirate the entirety of the Pokémon anime then.
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 22 pts · 148d
Just change your username AiLearningModule.
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 148d
Things keep going on their current path, I'll be using i2p fairly soon.
I wonder how the goberment feels about that?
Edit: spelling
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 148d
TheGoldenV@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 148d
Ice cold.
TheFrirish@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 4 pts · 148d
Wow thanks I learned something new today.
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 148d
I heard about i2p yesterday. I have no experience with it but it does sound promising.
Speculater@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 148d
How is that different than Tor?
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 148d
I2p is mostly a seperate network where everyone acts as a node. Its fast enough to torrent. The clearweb is accessible but it was added on as an after-thought. Personal sites are easy to set up. You can search for things in I2P. Nothing is really indexed in Tor afaik.
Tor is slow and is designed to access the clearweb with the darkweb as an after-thought. According to Mental Outlaw. Again, I have no experience, just going by what I've heard.
Treczoks@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 147d
Does anyone seriously believe that not using a VPN would save you from governmental snooping?
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 147d
Yes. Not me, but I have spoken to several that think this so vehemently, they scoffed at me for using one, with comments like, "ok, al Capone", "what are you hiding?", and (my personal favorite) "only criminals hide from the cops".
Willdrick@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 147d
Lmao then they bitch and moan when people abroad start cutting back on us-based tech and enforcing open standards
Zacryon@feddit.org · 17 pts · 147d
After what Snowden has uncovered, Palantir plain in the open, companies like Meta/Facebook and Alphabet/Google shitting on your privacy , I am absolutely sure you will be subject to spying always and regardless of what you're doing.
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 15 pts · 148d
They already spy on everyone. They probably do worse and promote social manipulation too.
Humanity is owned. And they are trying to own it further with air and digitizing everything. And they will succeed because most people don't give a fuck and just consume all the bullshit and lifestyles marketed to them.
droopy4096@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 148d
like in the old days of illegal wiretapping when throughout the conversation one would randomly say "bomb", "arson", "nuke" etc. It's time to use more VPN to generate such a level of white noise where it becomes impractical to track VPN access...
bigfish@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 148d
Why do you think they're buying so much AI shit right now? To filter through the noise for whatever they want to find. People aren't the bottleneck anymore.
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 148d
And it's not like they particularly care about false positives.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 148d
Quazatron@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 148d
I hope they enjoy Farscape, because that's what they're getting of they eavesdrop me.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 148d
Who doesn't love Farscape?
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 148d
Some fans of Lexx.
emeralddawn45@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 147d
Por que no los dos?
Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 147d
"Do I hear chanting and laser gun sounds?"
entropiclyclaude@lemmy.wtf · 12 pts · 148d
It was the Swedes causing mass shootings in America the whole time!
treadful@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 148d
Mirror without paywall: https://archive.is/WCzNJ
RoddyStiggs@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 148d
No.
Stop fearbaiting.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 147d
reddit pretty much would ban people using vpn , so they know too.
sol6_vi@lemmy.makearmy.io · 8 pts · 148d
Bro these last two years I've been put on every list. It's way too late for any of this.
SirSamuel@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 148d
Ooh ooh, I know how to get on a list!
Ahem
Luigi did nothing wrong
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 147d
Luigi did nothing wrong…
…also I am Spartacus
sol6_vi@lemmy.makearmy.io · 1 pts · 147d
He really didn't. Great guy Luigi.
MrSulu@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 147d
Just think of all the children they will be protecting! (Sarcasm)
I note the range of Republicans and dRepublicans (Democrats are Republicans in every meaningful way) who support this action (not sarcasm)
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 148d
Doesn't CGNat obscure the user true location in the same way? And what kind of VPN are we talking about? Company with exit node in the country? Commercial ones only?
NarrativeBear@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 148d
I guess I am on the "watch list" as my company uses multiple different VPN solutions so I can access work files cross offices and remotely when in the field.
Also, what about personal home VPNs where I want to route all my device traffic back to my home when I am out of the house like at a cafe/mall/airport?
Jaegeras@piefed.social · 5 pts · 148d
Danarchy@lemmy.nz · 4 pts · 148d
Welp I hope they enjoy the most degen shitposts my dumb brain can come up with
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 148d
Not that shocked, over here.
felixwhynot@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 148d
I didn’t know this tbh so thanks (and also that’s some BS)
Skv@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 148d
Anyone who REALLY wants to see what porn you watch and other info will bypass your silly VPN like its nothing. VPN only really helps when your ISP monitors your every KB and legitimately sends you threatening letter to stop torrenting that weird porn.
WingsofLove03@retrolemmy.com · 2 pts · 147d
Wow! Interesting I didn’t know
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 148d
They will waste waaaaaaaaaay too much time chasing ghosts for this to make sense.