For the vast majority of human history we have just been throwing sticks and stones and just got better at it.
Throwing stones by hand, invent slings to throw stones faster and further, invent siege engines to throw bigger stones even farther.
Throwing sticks by hand, sharpening the sticks into thrown spears, invent the atlal to throw the spears further and with more power, make the sticks smaller and invent bow to shoot them with more speed and even further, invent siege engines to throw bigger sticks with more power.
it is similar to how any kind of widely used power plant is basically just a steam machine. the difference is how we create the heat, but no matter if we burn coal or split atom there, it is still just a steam machine. if we some day finally manage to get fusion reactors to work, it will still be just a steam machine.
Some of the new fusion startups are looking into aneutronic fusion, in which most of the energy output is directly captured as electricity. They will be using steam-driven generators to take advantage of the waste heat but they will be a secondary component.
I'd argue we're still just throwing (highly processed) rocks but much much faster using gunpowder to accelerate them through the tube of handheld devices
Or just hang out with them all the time, mostly being nice, so they get used to not running away and we don't have to find or chase them when we are hungry.
Except for the time we tried poking with pointy sticks and swing sharp sticks. It worked for a while, but then we got even better at throwing sharp sticks further and hit all the stick pokers before they could get close.
Human beings really are the high skill, high reward spec. And like every other game ever, we get a bunch of dead weight teammates that the pros have to carry. We could be competing with other regions (planets/galaxies) already. Smh
I have to separate my cats for feeding and one of them isn't fond of the process so she runs away from me. I simply follow her at a walking pace saying, "You cannot defeat the persistence predator," until she gives up. It never takes long.
Bipedal locomotion for efficiency.
Sweat and lack of fur for unmatched heat regulation.
Slow and fast muscles for endurance.
Numerous other adaptations in feet, ankles and sinuses.
Most predators are built for short bursts of speed so they can rush prey. Prey animals are a little slower but with better endurance so they can outlast that burst of speed. If a lion doesn't catch a gazelle right away, then it will realize it's hopeless and give up. The gazelle will also be alerted to the lion and will have demonstrated that it's healthy and fit, so the lion will just look for easier prey. That's the standard "meta."
Persistence hunting is a niche that kinda "breaks the meta" by not caring about speed at all. You expect the prey to "get away" multiple times. You can't really do this as a pure carnivore, but as an omnivore, you can gather food while in persuit (helps if you're nomadic anyway). You also need to be able to have other ways to protect yourself from predators, since you have no chance of outrunning them. Early technology (like spears and fire) make the approach more viable, and those are human-exclusive.
If you drop your whole build to try to counter what humans are doing, you're going to get eaten by a lion (if gazelle) or not catch anything (if lion). And persistence hunting gets fewer kills compared to pure carnivores so it's not really worth it.
We conclude that it is possible to reach a credible reconstruction of the HTL without relying on a simple analogy with recent hunter-gatherers' diets. The memory of an adaptation to a trophic level that is embedded in modern humans' biology in the form of genetics, metabolism, and morphology is a fruitful line of investigation of past HTLs, whose potential we have only started to explore.
The paper you referenced is a theory, it's not the evidence for the theory.
Like, I don't know how you can take this seriously:
Another hypothesis claiming a human genetic predisposition to a carnivorous, low-carbohydrate diet is the “Carnivore Connection.” It postulates that humans, like carnivores, have a low physiological (non-pathological) insulin sensitivity. It allows prioritizing of glucose toward tissues like the central nervous system, erythrocytes, and testes that entirely or significantly depend on glucose, rather than muscles which can rely on fatty acids and ketosis instead (Brand-Miller et al., 2011); this sensitivity is similarly lower in carnivores (Schermerhorn, 2013). Brand-Miller et al. (2011) speculate that physiological insulin resistance allows humans on a low-carbohydrate diet to conserve blood glucose for the energy-hungry brain. The genetic manifestation of insulin resistance is complex and difficult to pinpoint to a limited number of genes (Moltke et al., 2014). However, Ségurel et al. (2013) found a significantly higher insulin resistance (low sensitivity) in a Central Asian population (Kirghiz) of historical herders, compared with a population of past farmers (Tajiks), despite both groups consuming similar diets. Their findings indicate a genetic predisposition to high physiological insulin resistance levels among groups consuming mainly animal-sourced foods. Additionally, a significant difference in the prevalence of this resistance exists between groups with long-term exposure to agriculture and those that do not, such as Australian aborigines, who have higher resistance. If higher physiological insulin resistance is indeed ancestral, its past endurance suggests that high carbohydrate (starch, sugar) consumption was not prevalent.
To put it simply, if the theory was correct, it would be visible in the high powered epidemiological data and various large studies, unless you're implying that humans evolved a lot more since this paleo time.
The article is full of little pet theories and speculations that would take a few books to debunk piece by piece. Good luck.
Yes, but not everything that was a good decision in the past is a good decision today. The ability to adapt to changing external conditions is what marks an intelligent species.
63 Comments
Kirp123@lemmy.world · 83 pts · 113d
For the vast majority of human history we have just been throwing sticks and stones and just got better at it.
Throwing stones by hand, invent slings to throw stones faster and further, invent siege engines to throw bigger stones even farther.
Throwing sticks by hand, sharpening the sticks into thrown spears, invent the atlal to throw the spears further and with more power, make the sticks smaller and invent bow to shoot them with more speed and even further, invent siege engines to throw bigger sticks with more power.
skulblaka@sh.itjust.works · 79 pts · 113d
Guns? Actually just throwing rocks at high speed.
Nuclear bomb? Throwing a special, spicy rock.
It really is just rock chucking all the way down, projectile combat completely broke the meta
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · 43 pts · 113d
it is similar to how any kind of widely used power plant is basically just a steam machine. the difference is how we create the heat, but no matter if we burn coal or split atom there, it is still just a steam machine. if we some day finally manage to get fusion reactors to work, it will still be just a steam machine.
rockerface@lemmy.cafe · 20 pts · 113d
Yep, the antimatter annihilation reactor goes into the boiling water again!
robolemmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 113d
Some of the new fusion startups are looking into aneutronic fusion, in which most of the energy output is directly captured as electricity. They will be using steam-driven generators to take advantage of the waste heat but they will be a secondary component.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 113d
Awesome!
MOTHER
FFFFFUUUUC-
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 113d
cool, i will check it out.
oxideseven@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 112d
Solar and wind would like a word.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 113d
We need to figure out a way to boil water by throwing rocks.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 8 pts · 113d
Throw rock so hard it hits water with enough force to boil it. Like that old "how hard would I have to slap a chicken to instantly cook it?" thing
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 113d
Very tiny, very hot rocks.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 113d
Rocks that spit bees out of their mouths
napkin2020@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 112d
We throw neutrons at uranium.
rockerface@lemmy.cafe · 9 pts · 113d
And then the theoretical peak of space combat, throwing big rocks at planets from orbit
DickFiasco@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 113d
Inyalowda deserved that shit, sasa?
just2look@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 113d
Alternatively tungsten rods (rods from god) which is throwing sticks from space
porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 113d
Guns I'll grant you, but
"Spicy" is doing a lot of work there lol.
Fmstrat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 112d
And purposeful shrapnel is just throwing rocks that throw more rocks.
NotSteve_@piefed.ca · 11 pts · 113d
I'd argue we're still just throwing (highly processed) rocks but much much faster using gunpowder to accelerate them through the tube of handheld devices
sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 113d
RUN THE FUCKING ANIMALS OFF A CLIFF
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 113d
Or just hang out with them all the time, mostly being nice, so they get used to not running away and we don't have to find or chase them when we are hungry.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 112d
Invent fire.
Invent guns to throw specifically shaped stones at 1000fps using fire.
far_university1990@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 111d
Wow had 1000fps display this early? Man modern company gotta catch up!
observes_depths@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 112d
Except for the time we tried poking with pointy sticks and swing sharp sticks. It worked for a while, but then we got even better at throwing sharp sticks further and hit all the stick pokers before they could get close.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 81 pts · 113d
Who would've thought the puny hairless ape would dominate the entire game? Get rekd animal kingdom
GreenShimada@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 113d
puny hairless apecuks!
DaedalousIlios@pawb.social · 38 pts · 113d
Human beings really are the high skill, high reward spec. And like every other game ever, we get a bunch of dead weight teammates that the pros have to carry. We could be competing with other regions (planets/galaxies) already. Smh
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 112d
Griefers. We have griefers who for some reason, we voted to lead us.
i_love_FFT@jlai.lu · 36 pts · 113d
This was written by every megafauna we drove to extinction
ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 113d
Well, except the ones we just drove over cliffs with fire by the hundreds so we could harvest the good bits
scytale@piefed.zip · 24 pts · 113d
Humans are the It Follows nightmare for animals.
Manjushri@piefed.social · 27 pts · 113d
I have to separate my cats for feeding and one of them isn't fond of the process so she runs away from me. I simply follow her at a walking pace saying, "You cannot defeat the persistence predator," until she gives up. It never takes long.
toynbee@piefed.social · 3 pts · 113d
My cats went offense instead of defense / escape for the period during which I had to do it.
Furbag@pawb.social · 21 pts · 113d
Based Apepilled and Staminamaxxing meta.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 113d
Are humans OP?
NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 113d
TierZoo is the fucking best. He's also on Nebula for those with a subscription.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 18 pts · 113d
Maybe you should keep up with the meta of instead of just spamming the same old strat.
Objection@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 112d
Like humans don't just spam walk strats
dovahking@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 113d
Working fine for the best predator in the sea, even before the dawn of trees. So, meta is the issue.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 112d
orcas have entered the chat
groet@feddit.org · 18 pts · 113d
Yeah maybe being able to count also helps
unmagical@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 113d
Oh you'll stop playing all right, you and your entire kin.
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 113d
This is how i feel about apecucks too
bananabenana@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 112d
Endurance mogged
Simulation6@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 112d
Bipedal locomotion for efficiency.
Sweat and lack of fur for unmatched heat regulation. Slow and fast muscles for endurance. Numerous other adaptations in feet, ankles and sinuses.
Mac@mander.xyz · 9 pts · 113d
Skill issue
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 112d
Why not just go slower like humans then and increase stamina
Objection@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 112d
Most predators are built for short bursts of speed so they can rush prey. Prey animals are a little slower but with better endurance so they can outlast that burst of speed. If a lion doesn't catch a gazelle right away, then it will realize it's hopeless and give up. The gazelle will also be alerted to the lion and will have demonstrated that it's healthy and fit, so the lion will just look for easier prey. That's the standard "meta."
Persistence hunting is a niche that kinda "breaks the meta" by not caring about speed at all. You expect the prey to "get away" multiple times. You can't really do this as a pure carnivore, but as an omnivore, you can gather food while in persuit (helps if you're nomadic anyway). You also need to be able to have other ways to protect yourself from predators, since you have no chance of outrunning them. Early technology (like spears and fire) make the approach more viable, and those are human-exclusive.
If you drop your whole build to try to counter what humans are doing, you're going to get eaten by a lion (if gazelle) or not catch anything (if lion). And persistence hunting gets fewer kills compared to pure carnivores so it's not really worth it.
sirico@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 112d
Don't we have the strongest bite force of all the great apes
Simulation6@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 112d
Relative to size but not overall.
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 1 pts · 113d
Dawn of the Squishy Things moment
dumnezero@piefed.social · -6 pts · 113d
"ImAcArNIVorE"
xep@discuss.online · 7 pts · 113d
Carbon and nitrogen isotope testing prove that we ate animals.
dumnezero@piefed.social · 0 pts · 112d
You might want to update your literature.
jet@hackertalks.com · 0 pts · 109d
https://doi.org/10.1002/ajpa.24247
Do you have a better source?
dumnezero@piefed.social · 1 pts · 108d
Try understanding the limits of the science.
For example adds some nice nuance.
The paper you referenced is a theory, it's not the evidence for the theory.
Like, I don't know how you can take this seriously:
To put it simply, if the theory was correct, it would be visible in the high powered epidemiological data and various large studies, unless you're implying that humans evolved a lot more since this paleo time.
The article is full of little pet theories and speculations that would take a few books to debunk piece by piece. Good luck.
ftbd@feddit.org · 0 pts · 112d
Yes, but not everything that was a good decision in the past is a good decision today. The ability to adapt to changing external conditions is what marks an intelligent species.
xep@discuss.online · 1 pts · 112d
Homo sapiens sapiens eating megafauna is a fact.
What you choose to do is up to you.
dumnezero@piefed.social · 1 pts · 112d
Don't bother, that user is the moderator of "Friendly Carnivore@discuss.online"
Zagorath@quokk.au · 2 pts · 112d
I'm sorry but I don't understand. Could you explain what this image and your comment are meant to be about?
dumnezero@piefed.social · 2 pts · 111d
look up the "carnivore diet" or "lion diet".
It's the ultimate form of LARP-ing as carnivores.
Zagorath@quokk.au · 1 pts · 111d
Sure, the carnivore diet is dumb af. But what's the relevance here?
jet@hackertalks.com · -1 pts · 109d
Why?