"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
The way I figure it, if God exists he gave me a reasoning mind and provided absolutely no reasonable evidence of his existence. If he has a problem with me drawing the inevitable conclusion from that then fuck 'im.
If you look at it from God's perspective, assuming he exists, you have all of these groups of people who claim to worship him, and the biggest ones all have different holy books, and all of those holy books are flawed. They're even self-contradictory. I think God would be offended if people thought he was responsible for those piles of trash.
On the other hand, if God created our cosmos, surely he'd at least approve of people trying to understand it compared to boring people who ignore the world and just chant the same things over and over.
the flying spaghetti monster, would like to hastily clarify, that he didn't mean to, doesn't know how to fix it, and is honestly freaking out
uhh, if you have any tips, give them to me, r'amen
This is why I refer to myself as agnostic instead of atheist. I do not see an evidence of God as stated in the Bible, Torah, Koran or such religions. However I cannot prove that a different type of God does not exist. Something - called God - could be responsible for the beginning of everything. I don't see that God as being too concerned about humans and what they do or don't do. God and religion are not the same thing. Religions are entirely man made as a societal control mechanisms and abused by leadership greed.
Australia is Earth's forgotten Test Branch server that is just still running ... one day, the other servers got too full, so they had to hastily bring it back into service.
both AUSTRALIA and south america, both continents were isolated for a long time so they both developed unique species. Marsupial has its likely origins in South america actually, since its the other major continent with marsupials, they also have things like sprassadonts(marsupial like), and liptoterns
If god is real, he very likely doesn't give a shit about humans. If you interviewed him, he'd say that all of that stuff you attribute to him was obviously made up by humans.
MY religion says if you don't give me $20,000 you'll spend forever swimming through a pool of glass shards and lemon juice. Better be on the safe side - what if I'm right?
If god turns out to be real then heaven is likely hell.
Based on what god has shown us so far he is a dictator who enjoys watching his little creatures suffer in too many ways to count. He is most likely an emotionless psychopath. He used his Jesus avatar once publicly to show that he's "one of us", showed off his admin rights by turning water to wine and resurrecting himself, and then logged off again with no consequences.
It's the equivalent of a billionaire going with public transport for a day to show how grounded and normal he is.
If god exists and can truly control what comes after death then we are all fucked and need to find out how to kill him.
Maybe after death we resurrect into a full blown souls against god rebellion that has been going on for a few hundred years
« You better pray for forgiveness to the Christian god before dying… just to be sure! »
Ok.. but what if the Hindus were right all along and I just damned myself?! There’s a whole lot more Hindus.. I’m getting better odds by renouncing the Christian god instead
"You lose" is such a weird thing to say. It's implying this is an issue to win or lose on. Instead of you know living a virtuous life. Nope. It's sides that win or lose.
What if, after you die, you discover that string theory is correct, the the universe and reality itself are all merely tendrils of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and that it thought you were kind of neat, so it decides to turn you into gelato... but only for a moment, as a joke, and then just does a ground hog day on you, as another joke?
I occasionally hear voices in my head that I decided to attribute to God, and I also see or hear strange patterns sometimes that I decide are God talking to me in extremely specific and unique ways that no one else would understand, therefore, my moderate and likely worsening schizophrenia is proof that God is real.
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Interestingly, the Christian God doesn't care about your life, only about your soul. And whilst they say belief is the only way to him there's an interesting thing most of these guys intentionally overlook.
If God is infact made of love, as so many claim, only those who are full of love truly believe. Now I ain't saying atheists have more love in them than Christians, but I can say with A LOT of certainty that Christians aint got a lot of love atall
If god were to be real I’d like to think that finite and cringe concepts like “do you love me because I killed myself for you? (Tick the according box)” would be so laughably far removed from the conversation that’s it’s not even up for consideration.
The supposed almighty creator, who resides over everything in existence itself,…. Spends it’s time worrying wether or not you touched yourself and why you didn’t believe in the santa guy from a book mostly used by evil conmen. Don’t make me laugh.
It never seems to occur to them that if there was an entity so powerful that it could literally create an entire Universe out of nothing, and then monitor the progress of ever single element of that Universe, then that entity would be far too complex for our puny human minds to even comprehend.
And yet there are those among us who would dare to claim to know exactly what that all-powerful entity is thinking, and what it wants from us, and oh, yeah, it always costs a lot of money, gimme.
A long time ago, I had a friend bitching that people weren't getting all dressed up at her church. I've always said that if God was real, they wouldn't give a rats ass what people wore to church.
If the god sends me to hell for not believing in him after his followers were so cruel, then he is a tyrant and I want nothing to do with him. If he recognizes my goodness and doesn't care whether I had faith in him or not... then it sure sounds like I don't lose.
If the "God" that exists is the one that has allowed some of the absolute abhorrent acts of the world and condones the hate that some of his followers display then I don't want to go to his idea of eternal heaven or whatever 🤷♀️
That's what people don't get. Threatening that you don't get to go to the heaven of some guy you don't agree with anyway is just not that threatening 😅🤷♀️ it's like trying to threaten a vegan that they're never going to be allowed to go to a steakhouse.
If there is a god, what's the chance that you have the "correct" one of all the religions ever invented? If you go to hell for following the "wrong" religion your chance of going to hell is much higher than of hitting the jackpot.
The main problem with this argumrnt is the hidden assumption that it's their god that's real. Other folklorists came up with so many of those that believing in one doesn't significantly increase your chances after all 🤷
Dear Christian,
...
p.s. your God is obsessed with foreskins, you lose either way.
FWIW... The obsession with foreskins is more of a USAian thing from some corn flake capitalist. I think christians outside USA are generally uncut. It's a national thing, not a religious thing.
... Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are... It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God..." - Acts 15
The obsession with foreskins is more of a USAian thing from some corn flake capitalist.
No, it's really from the Old Testament, with over a dozen mentions (I think the total is 14). Search "foreskin" KJV in your favorite Bible search engine.
Jesus also said "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:14). Foreskins are a repeated part of those jots and tittle laws.
All of that foreskin business could have instead been admonitions against slavery, child marriage, or further dietary rules for that matter.
It's there, for all eternity, genital mutilation and other stupidity, preserved for our enjoyment and/or embarrassment.
What if, after you die, you find out you’re dead, and you’ve wasted your precious time all along?
I mean, what does it mean to "waste time" in this context? There's a certain existential dread that comes with the mystery of death - really the mystery of consciousness generally speaking - and we all cope with it as best we can. I don't think a ritualized means of managing one's anxiety is time wasted. If your genuflections to a carving of a guy on a crucifix sooth your own anxieties of loss-of-self, more power to you.
But it does feel a bit like someone asking "What if you stepped on a crack and then it really did break your mother's back?" I mean, that would be very scary and sad. I can't see the correlation between these two things. I'm not going to painstakingly tip-toe down the sidewalk out of a concern I don't take seriously.
I mean, what does it mean to “waste time” in this context?
Sitting in church, reading the Bible and Bible studies, praying to God, time spent working that is then tithed, etc. All totally worthless and time wasted.
Is the man sitting in church and reading from the Bible wasting his time any more or less than the man sitting in a field and contemplating the stars? In the end, they both amount to the same thing.
One of the ten commandments is Thou shalt not hold false witness. In other words, do not claim something to be true that you do not actually know to be true.
Everyone who claims God's existence based on their own faith has thus violated one of the ten commandments.
Ask any self professed Christian (of any denomination) to tell you what the ten commandments are and they won't have a clue .... I know several devout Christians who are able to .. but the majority, about 90% of them, wouldn't have a clue
I grew up JW but the 10 weren't really discussed all that much. While they did use scriptures from all over the Bible, the New Testament had the majority of the attention.
God is real, and can't blame you. They made it real hard to prove.
God isn't real, which you don't find out, cuz you're dead.
...Or dead-ish?
God's realness is predicated on belief:
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that..."
Or:
God is real, he's as vindictive, petty, and cruel as the Bible portrays him to be and anyone like that you definitely don't want whatever their idea of heaven would be.
I feel like the whole concept of souls is just racism. Because for souls to have a concept of existence and value, some sort of identity between life and death must be, implying, basically, eugenics.
"This soul is better than this other soul" etc. An inherent superiority and inferiority, separate from our minds, insulated, even from logic.
Your idea about the concept of souls being rooted in racism is interesting. Although you lost me when you jumped from life and death as an identity to eugenics.
All religion is just an assumed abstraction and proxy of authority of idea.
"There's a god that says if you defy me, you'll piss them off and they're a god and you don't want that"
Or
"The god of rivers says always pray to the god of rivers because it brings you good luck" <-- be hopeful and respectful of the dangers of rivers. You might as well please the god of seatbelts or the god of taking life or the god of death.
It's not always control or malice, but it's always an idea behind it. The problem is when these traditions use fear and tribalism and groupthink to affect bias and prevent change. And then the problem is relying on these mechanisms evolves into dependence.
Also all organized religions are cults. All of them. Every single one. I don't hate everything about all of them, but organized religion is - undeniably - definitively - objectively - ALL - cults.
Not all power is evil. All religion is power.
Example: Telling children to brush their teeth is power.
I'm so tired.
It's not inherently us vs them, but it effectively becomes that way because religion is heiarchial and all about authority and taboo and shit. But even that isn't totally inherently bad: yes, not letting new ideas and variety flourish is bad - but the real issue imo is that the "us" part in the us-vs-them is because it asserts final truth in an existence that requires change AND because it answers questions that need to be actually asked and answered with real truth. Basically, it's full of lies and deep, foundational reliance on tradition and a fetishistic own fart sniffing bullshit that asserts itself like a self centered molester. It's time to reinvent the goddamn wheel and ask questions and really think about all of the assumptions we, you, they, and everybody makes. Make the jump and stop inserting your sky daddy everywhere when you're out of knowledge. Fuck.
You say monotheistic and it has me think. Ill never be religious.. well, until we respect earth and its science, but uh, Im in favor of bringing back the old gods. Polytheistic is it?
Shower thought earlier: Humanity truly feels lost.
If after I die god turns out to be real, I'd probably still go to heaven because I felt bad about my sins and that's pretty much all that's needed to get into heaven according to the New Testament. 🤷♂️
There's also that part about accepting Jesus as your Lord & savior, so make sure you say those words, or get someone to say them over you before your brain waves stop.
You don't want to be kept out of heaven on a paperwork technicality.
The concept of absolute forgiveness is terrifying to me. Rape, murder, and make people suffer with greed and corruption all you want ... then say "Im sowwy about all that, forgive me" before you die and into Christian heaven you go.
Fuck that. I want no part of that "heaven" ... that is where pure evil will reign, it will be hell.
If I were evil and wanted to corrupt a bunch of religious idiots I would tell them that they didn't have to be decent people, that they could just do what they wanted because a zombie god died for their sins. That would lead them to worship the wealthy and not care about their fellow humans, the suffering would be everywhere.
Do you think that could work?
If I were evil and wanted to corrupt a bunch of religious idiots I would tell them that they didn't have to be decent people, that they could just do what they wanted because a zombie god died for their sins. That would lead them to worship the wealthy and not care about their fellow humans, the suffering would be everywhere. Do you think that could work?
That's pretty much the way it works now, so, yeah, start your own religion.
Fuck me, Sam
What are the odds?
That of history's endless parade of gods
That the god you just happened to be taught to believe in
Is the actual one, and he digs on healing?
People tend to develop biases when they are young and reinforce them when they get older.
If you cut across someone's bias, they tend to see that as your attempt to trick them. And they fall back on a body of knowledge/experience that contradicts your efforts. If you encounter someone without bias, it is easy to seed a bias through presentation of slanted perspectives and cherry-picked information when you are their primary source of truth. But if your audience reflexively distrusts you, it is comparatively difficult to reshape their beliefs. You tend to have more luck playing on their distrust of you.
As an example, if you have someone who is racist and fearful of young, strong, black men, it is relatively difficult to tamp down that anxiety when around a person like this who they find intimidating. It is comically easy for a person that fits the description - but who is otherwise cheerful, passive, and pleasant - to intimidate the bigot with idle threats or make a fool of them by playing against their presumptions.
Pascals Wager was already stupid in the 17th century
The broad existential question was interesting. It's part of a conversation about tail risks and cost-benefit calculations that you can apply to much more than just religion.
What I find more curious about Pascal's Wager, from a theological perspective, is the logical consequence. Namely, that you're obligated to find some kind of theological average between all known religious practices to maximize your own personal safety. And that theological average largely boils down to generic positive aphorisms -
Do Unto Others
Live Charitably
Value Your Own Life And The Lives Of Others
Reject Base Cravings
Abhor Materialist Social Hierarchies
Turn The Other Cheek
Men Are More Important Than Women
Slaughter A Live Animal To Appease Primal Forces
Wash Your Asshole
Remember That Old People Are Smarter Than You
Shit we should already know about and are inclined towards anyway. When you take a holistic view of religious studies, it peels away the pastiche and reveals the common truths of human existence. And Pascal's Wager, as a thought experiment, helps navigate people to this point from an abstract logical framework.
I think it falls under "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it". Each one thinking their the first to come up with this scenario (or act like it, after they saw it online, tv, movie...) likely doesn't hold education (specifically history, philosophy, science, etc) in high regard.
But would either of you lose really. If god was real, and he punished you for not believing in him, is he the good guy or the bad guy. Sounds like the later. Which implies there is another who will reward you for just being a good person in general. So you wouldn't lose.
The other option that is more likely if you assume god is omnipotent is that all of the religions are made up by humans. Same with all the rules. A real omnipotent god wouldn't punish his own creation for doing what he created them to do. So again you don't lose.
Jesus, don’t make more of them. There’s optimistically like a 50% chance that makes them realize how stupid the argument is, the rest start pissing themselves over the AI god.
What if, after you die, you find there is a god, but it's of some long lost central African tribe that got wiped out by some conflict at the dawn of civilisation, and has been vengeful for over 8000 years?
It would be really amusing to learn that what we call a deity, is actually just a higher dimensional being, a child one at that, and we were just a science fair project that didn't even get a participation trophy.
Before achieving through abnormal circumstance a godlike omnipotence and omnipresence, the Ellimist was originally a Ketran named Toomin. He lived on the Equatorial High Crystal with his friends Inidar, Aguella and Wormer. Toomin could be best described as a "gamer"; he frequently played a life simulation game called Alien Civilizations, very popular among his people, which gave each player an alien species and tasked them with slightly modifying their environmental or evolutionary aspects, so as to cause change over time. The aim of the game was to keep the species alive for as long as possible; if the species became extinct, the player lost.
So, far before the main storyline of Animorphs, the ancient backstory is roughly 'once there was a race hyperintelligent elf-dwarfish creatures, of whom some played very advanced life simulator / god games, and, following a series of extraordinary events, the last remaining one of their kind basically became an actual god / a dimensionally transcendent being.'
... and, the particular one of these that ended up essentially becoming god, well, he was originally ... pretty much a hikkikomori NEET nerd 'failure to launch' 'professional gamer' kid/adolescent, going by the cultural standards of his species, before it was genocided.
So... its like an ancient alien dork who was really into life simulator / god games just ended up gaining so much knowledge and power that he became able to treat reality itself as one of his games.
Kind of. Sort of. Its more complicated and strange than that.
Animorphs is just actually a really good book series.
Yep, the covers are ludicrous.
But to me, Animorphs is basically on the same level as Redwall, very, very good series of books to give to a kid to entertain them, make em more literate, and also expose them to some pretty serious and 'big' ideas and concepts.
A million times better than an iPad.
Also, I guess at this point, they also serve as a pretty good time capsule into 90s/00s culture/lifestyle.
Pascal's wager: It costs me nothing to believe that Jesus believes in a Yahweist god that supports zionist, roman, and all empires afterwards claiming full divine authority for their genocides. Supporting the church's favorite tyrants must be the path to gaining everlasting rewards if any exist, because that must be what Jesus meant.
And it DOES cost something. It costs of course the not inconsiderable amounts of money that Christian leaders demand. It costs your time. It costs lifestyle, as you limit who you see, what you do with them, what you read, what movies you see, etc.
All in all, becoming a Christian because of Blaise, is a losing game.
The time and donations can be a wash for possible enjoyment of sermon (ok not likely) and community ties/togetherness benefit from membership. The cost is assured loss of soul. Best Church business models are to collect your soul to sell to/serve Satanic evil tyrants instead of teaching truth/humanism. Since Charlemagne, you are not allowed an independent conscience to assess whether your Church/Emperor could be doing evil in the name of your soul (Holy spirit is same matter as divine right to warmongering/genocide of your ruler, and whatever they say in the name of god is axiomatic). But if you do not have the more obvious responsibility for not selling your soul to evil, as path to heaven, then every random person who convinces you the path to heaven is through the sacrifice of virgins or minorities, is a proposition you should consider if there are no social consequences.
Public support for the church may be a very small effort/price to pay. But, contrary to expectations, it is a pledge of demonism that if not necessarily, 90% certainty, damns your soul to any existence of eternity.
146 Comments
neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works · 194 pts · 94d
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius
JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca · 35 pts · 93d
Wow that's way older than I realized!
MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca · 55 pts · 93d
I know right? Can’t believe it’s been 26 years since the Gladiator movie came out!!
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 93d
Davel23@fedia.io · 94 pts · 94d
The way I figure it, if God exists he gave me a reasoning mind and provided absolutely no reasonable evidence of his existence. If he has a problem with me drawing the inevitable conclusion from that then fuck 'im.
BillyClark@piefed.social · 29 pts · 94d
If you look at it from God's perspective, assuming he exists, you have all of these groups of people who claim to worship him, and the biggest ones all have different holy books, and all of those holy books are flawed. They're even self-contradictory. I think God would be offended if people thought he was responsible for those piles of trash.
On the other hand, if God created our cosmos, surely he'd at least approve of people trying to understand it compared to boring people who ignore the world and just chant the same things over and over.
Domino@quokk.au · 21 pts · 93d
If god is real im going to try and kill him for creating a world with such evil happening to innocent people.
Any god who creates a place where babies are raped and murdered deserves to die.
rain_worl@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 66d
the flying spaghetti monster, would like to hastily clarify, that he didn't mean to, doesn't know how to fix it, and is honestly freaking out
uhh, if you have any tips, give them to me, r'amen
Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 93d
This is why I refer to myself as agnostic instead of atheist. I do not see an evidence of God as stated in the Bible, Torah, Koran or such religions. However I cannot prove that a different type of God does not exist. Something - called God - could be responsible for the beginning of everything. I don't see that God as being too concerned about humans and what they do or don't do. God and religion are not the same thing. Religions are entirely man made as a societal control mechanisms and abused by leadership greed.
batshit@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 92d
Then it's a question of semantics, and how you define "God". Would you consider big bang as "God"?
BurgerBaron@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 93d
Plus if this is the world he made he's demiurge anyways and fuck that guy.
Hackworth@piefed.ca · 57 pts · 94d
If god is real, he has a lot to answer for.
blackstampede@sh.itjust.works · 60 pts · 94d
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauthausen_concentration_camp
ThanksObama@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 94d
The platypus. Seriously, wtf?
albbi@piefed.ca · 9 pts · 93d
Australia was his animal testing ground. It was never meant to make it into production.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 93d
Australia is Earth's forgotten Test Branch server that is just still running ... one day, the other servers got too full, so they had to hastily bring it back into service.
lividweasel@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 93d
Everyone has a testing
environmentcontinent. Some people are fortunate enough to also have a separate productionenvironmentcontinent.Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 92d
both AUSTRALIA and south america, both continents were isolated for a long time so they both developed unique species. Marsupial has its likely origins in South america actually, since its the other major continent with marsupials, they also have things like sprassadonts(marsupial like), and liptoterns
BillyClark@piefed.social · 8 pts · 94d
If god is real, he very likely doesn't give a shit about humans. If you interviewed him, he'd say that all of that stuff you attribute to him was obviously made up by humans.
kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 93d
If God is real then he's basically a kid with an ant farm and magnifying glass.
BillyClark@piefed.social · 2 pts · 93d
Best case scenario is that this is his version of The Sims.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 93d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fPRO2SApO8
areakode@riskeratspizza.com · 2 pts · 94d
Or... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/optpH7nBh7w
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 92d
god seems pretty wrathful and amoral towards mortals, even uses ANGELS to do his dirty work.
TachyonTele@piefed.social · 2 pts · 94d
DaddyYahwey was a rollin stone 🎶mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 93d
Yeah, well...
MY religion says if you don't give me $20,000 you'll spend forever swimming through a pool of glass shards and lemon juice. Better be on the safe side - what if I'm right?
albbi@piefed.ca · 14 pts · 93d
I'd like to subscribe to your Creative Eternal Tortures newsletter.
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 93d
It too, is a creative torture.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 8 pts · 93d
Here's $30,000 just in case. Thanks for the warning!
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 93d
... Should've asked for more to start.
Leviathan@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 93d
A fellow mormon?
Hisse@programming.dev · 2 pts · 93d
I doubt that, as my variant of that religion says 20000 pounds.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 93d
my variant says 20,000 tacos
Patrikvo@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 93d
Well, my religion says if you give Mycodesuck money you'll spend eternity listen to political speeches. Enjoy the dilema.
SunshineJogger@feddit.org · 32 pts · 93d
If god turns out to be real then heaven is likely hell.
Based on what god has shown us so far he is a dictator who enjoys watching his little creatures suffer in too many ways to count. He is most likely an emotionless psychopath. He used his Jesus avatar once publicly to show that he's "one of us", showed off his admin rights by turning water to wine and resurrecting himself, and then logged off again with no consequences.
It's the equivalent of a billionaire going with public transport for a day to show how grounded and normal he is.
If god exists and can truly control what comes after death then we are all fucked and need to find out how to kill him.
Maybe after death we resurrect into a full blown souls against god rebellion that has been going on for a few hundred years
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.cafe · 6 pts · 93d
The God of the Bible is a monster.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
and crumbly and tastes awful
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 93d
Ooh that's a cool book idea.
Tuxman@sh.itjust.works · 28 pts · 93d
Pascal wager can be so easily thrown back…
« You better pray for forgiveness to the Christian god before dying… just to be sure! »
Ok.. but what if the Hindus were right all along and I just damned myself?! There’s a whole lot more Hindus.. I’m getting better odds by renouncing the Christian god instead
drcobaltjedi@programming.dev · 5 pts · 93d
Ummm... No, christanity is the largest religion in the world.
Rothe@piefed.social · 8 pts · 93d
Except there are a multitude of different Christian denominations, all disagreeing with each other.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 93d
As opposed to monolithic Hindus?
someguy3@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 93d
"You lose" is such a weird thing to say. It's implying this is an issue to win or lose on. Instead of you know living a virtuous life. Nope. It's sides that win or lose.
Upperhand@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 93d
Right? My religion tortures you for not being on our side I rather choose nothing than worship that kind of evil.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 8 pts · 93d
These pricks get off on seeing others suffer, while proclaiming to covet the virtues of a book they've never read.
lauha@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 93d
I think the matter is simple.
If there is a God, he should let me in for being a good person. If he is as vain as Christians make him out to be, I wouldn't worship him anyway.
HalfSalesman@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 93d
If basically any major religion's god is real, we all lose. They're all fucking giant assholes.
I'm not worshiping an asshole... unless its attached to someone hot.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 93d
unless the religions are gatekeeping the real knowledge behind their dogma and twisting it, so they can gain more secular power.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 93d
What's wrong with Ganesh? He's a pretty cool guy
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 93d
Dear reader,
What if, after you die, you discover that string theory is correct, the the universe and reality itself are all merely tendrils of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and that it thought you were kind of neat, so it decides to turn you into gelato... but only for a moment, as a joke, and then just does a ground hog day on you, as another joke?
You lose.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 11 pts · 93d
R'amen
Squirrelanna@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 93d
Based I think?
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 93d
On a true story, yes.
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 93d
Braise Him pho-ever, r'Amen
OldChicoAle@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 94d
God: >hides<
Also God: how dare you not believe in me with zero proof in the natural world! >tantrum<
ignotum@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 94d
Everything is proof of god!
If you understand nothing and refuse to explore and learn, that is
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 93d
No see you don't understand:
I occasionally hear voices in my head that I decided to attribute to God, and I also see or hear strange patterns sometimes that I decide are God talking to me in extremely specific and unique ways that no one else would understand, therefore, my moderate and likely worsening schizophrenia is proof that God is real.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 93d
P1k1e@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 93d
Interestingly, the Christian God doesn't care about your life, only about your soul. And whilst they say belief is the only way to him there's an interesting thing most of these guys intentionally overlook.
If God is infact made of love, as so many claim, only those who are full of love truly believe. Now I ain't saying atheists have more love in them than Christians, but I can say with A LOT of certainty that Christians aint got a lot of love atall
jasoman@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 93d
The phrase "there is no hate like Christian love" isn't going away till the Christians do.
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space · 14 pts · 93d
If god were to be real I’d like to think that finite and cringe concepts like “do you love me because I killed myself for you? (Tick the according box)” would be so laughably far removed from the conversation that’s it’s not even up for consideration.
The supposed almighty creator, who resides over everything in existence itself,…. Spends it’s time worrying wether or not you touched yourself and why you didn’t believe in the santa guy from a book mostly used by evil conmen. Don’t make me laugh.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.cafe · 12 pts · 93d
It never seems to occur to them that if there was an entity so powerful that it could literally create an entire Universe out of nothing, and then monitor the progress of ever single element of that Universe, then that entity would be far too complex for our puny human minds to even comprehend.
And yet there are those among us who would dare to claim to know exactly what that all-powerful entity is thinking, and what it wants from us, and oh, yeah, it always costs a lot of money, gimme.
fishy@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 93d
This always confused me too. It would be like an ant trying to understand the motivations of a human.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.cafe · 1 pts · 93d
I have used that exact analogy, asking why the omniscient entity would care about the needs of any single individual ant out of a colony of billions?
bitchkat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 93d
A long time ago, I had a friend bitching that people weren't getting all dressed up at her church. I've always said that if God was real, they wouldn't give a rats ass what people wore to church.
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 93d
Pascal's Wager. Just as ludicrous as it was last time someone posted it.
Baizey@feddit.dk · 3 pts · 93d
Gotta love Pascal's mugger
Ftumch@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 94d
What if after you die you find out the demiurge is real and you failed to achieve gnosis, so you have to go back to the prison that is this reality?
You lose.
eronth@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 92d
If the god sends me to hell for not believing in him after his followers were so cruel, then he is a tyrant and I want nothing to do with him. If he recognizes my goodness and doesn't care whether I had faith in him or not... then it sure sounds like I don't lose.
lifeinlarkhall@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 92d
This is along the lines I think.
If the "God" that exists is the one that has allowed some of the absolute abhorrent acts of the world and condones the hate that some of his followers display then I don't want to go to his idea of eternal heaven or whatever 🤷♀️
That's what people don't get. Threatening that you don't get to go to the heaven of some guy you don't agree with anyway is just not that threatening 😅🤷♀️ it's like trying to threaten a vegan that they're never going to be allowed to go to a steakhouse.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 93d
If there is a god, what's the chance that you have the "correct" one of all the religions ever invented? If you go to hell for following the "wrong" religion your chance of going to hell is much higher than of hitting the jackpot.
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 93d
Yep Ancient Egypt had it right with their religion. You die and Osiris says hi.
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 93d
Filthy infidel! The only true god is the Eagle God, that nobody has thought about in 37.000 years!
LadyButterfly@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 93d
HOW DARE YOU!! I will fight a holy war over this!
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
Have fun in Eagle Hell!
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
Heretic! The one true god is the Anteater God, that nobody has invented yet!
HyperfocusSurfer@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 94d
The main problem with this argumrnt is the hidden assumption that it's their god that's real. Other folklorists came up with so many of those that believing in one doesn't significantly increase your chances after all 🤷
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 93d
Dear Christian,
What if, after you die, you find out you're dead, and you've wasted your precious time all along?
You lose.
p.s. your God is obsessed with foreskins, you lose either way.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 93d
FWIW... The obsession with foreskins is more of a USAian thing from some corn flake capitalist. I think christians outside USA are generally uncut. It's a national thing, not a religious thing.
Christianity legalized the foreskin almost immediately. It's still legal today. TBH I don't think christianity would have grown so popular otherwise.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
No, it's really from the Old Testament, with over a dozen mentions (I think the total is 14). Search "foreskin" KJV in your favorite Bible search engine.
Jesus also said "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:14). Foreskins are a repeated part of those jots and tittle laws.
All of that foreskin business could have instead been admonitions against slavery, child marriage, or further dietary rules for that matter.
It's there, for all eternity, genital mutilation and other stupidity, preserved for our enjoyment and/or embarrassment.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
I mean, what does it mean to "waste time" in this context? There's a certain existential dread that comes with the mystery of death - really the mystery of consciousness generally speaking - and we all cope with it as best we can. I don't think a ritualized means of managing one's anxiety is time wasted. If your genuflections to a carving of a guy on a crucifix sooth your own anxieties of loss-of-self, more power to you.
But it does feel a bit like someone asking "What if you stepped on a crack and then it really did break your mother's back?" I mean, that would be very scary and sad. I can't see the correlation between these two things. I'm not going to painstakingly tip-toe down the sidewalk out of a concern I don't take seriously.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 93d
Sitting in church, reading the Bible and Bible studies, praying to God, time spent working that is then tithed, etc. All totally worthless and time wasted.
reksas@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 93d
worthless unless you genuinely enjoy it* though i cant imagine how anyone would truely want that.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 93d
Is the man sitting in church and reading from the Bible wasting his time any more or less than the man sitting in a field and contemplating the stars? In the end, they both amount to the same thing.
inkblade@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 93d
Even if a creator exists, I reckon that it has long forgotten that it made this shitty planet.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 10 pts · 93d
"Hey G-man, those creatures you made are getting out of control."
"Huh? What crea- Oh. Oh fuck. That was supposed to be thrown out 3 millenia ago. I fucking forgot. It's probably all rotten and moldy now."
jamesrandysghost@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 93d
"How the fuck did they manage to coat the entire planet in asbestos and lead?! Gonna have to quarantine that one..."
blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 93d
One of the ten commandments is Thou shalt not hold false witness. In other words, do not claim something to be true that you do not actually know to be true.
Everyone who claims God's existence based on their own faith has thus violated one of the ten commandments.
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 93d
Ask any self professed Christian (of any denomination) to tell you what the ten commandments are and they won't have a clue .... I know several devout Christians who are able to .. but the majority, about 90% of them, wouldn't have a clue
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 93d
All I know is that the 2nd Commandment means you can't take my guns.
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 93d
"You shall not make for yourself an idol"
That makes sense since many Americans literally worship their guns ... and some even turn them into golden idols.
chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 93d
I grew up JW but the 10 weren't really discussed all that much. While they did use scriptures from all over the Bible, the New Testament had the majority of the attention.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 1 pts · 93d
There are of course religions not based on the judeo-christian god
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 93d
It's win-win:
God is real, and loves athiests anyway.
God is real, and can't blame you. They made it real hard to prove.
God isn't real, which you don't find out, cuz you're dead.
...Or dead-ish?
God's realness is predicated on belief:
Donkter@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 93d
Or: God is real, he's as vindictive, petty, and cruel as the Bible portrays him to be and anyone like that you definitely don't want whatever their idea of heaven would be.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 93d
I feel like the whole concept of souls is just racism. Because for souls to have a concept of existence and value, some sort of identity between life and death must be, implying, basically, eugenics.
"This soul is better than this other soul" etc. An inherent superiority and inferiority, separate from our minds, insulated, even from logic.
InputZero@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 93d
Your idea about the concept of souls being rooted in racism is interesting. Although you lost me when you jumped from life and death as an identity to eugenics.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 93d
Eugenics is the final boss of racism. It all leads to that, every time.
cabillaud@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 93d
All monotheistic religions are in a logic of us vs them.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 82d
All religion is just an assumed abstraction and proxy of authority of idea.
"There's a god that says if you defy me, you'll piss them off and they're a god and you don't want that"
Or
"The god of rivers says always pray to the god of rivers because it brings you good luck" <-- be hopeful and respectful of the dangers of rivers. You might as well please the god of seatbelts or the god of taking life or the god of death.
It's not always control or malice, but it's always an idea behind it. The problem is when these traditions use fear and tribalism and groupthink to affect bias and prevent change. And then the problem is relying on these mechanisms evolves into dependence.
Also all organized religions are cults. All of them. Every single one. I don't hate everything about all of them, but organized religion is - undeniably - definitively - objectively - ALL - cults.
Not all power is evil. All religion is power.
Example: Telling children to brush their teeth is power.
I'm so tired.
It's not inherently us vs them, but it effectively becomes that way because religion is heiarchial and all about authority and taboo and shit. But even that isn't totally inherently bad: yes, not letting new ideas and variety flourish is bad - but the real issue imo is that the "us" part in the us-vs-them is because it asserts final truth in an existence that requires change AND because it answers questions that need to be actually asked and answered with real truth. Basically, it's full of lies and deep, foundational reliance on tradition and a fetishistic own fart sniffing bullshit that asserts itself like a self centered molester. It's time to reinvent the goddamn wheel and ask questions and really think about all of the assumptions we, you, they, and everybody makes. Make the jump and stop inserting your sky daddy everywhere when you're out of knowledge. Fuck.
/Rant
Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 93d
You say monotheistic and it has me think. Ill never be religious.. well, until we respect earth and its science, but uh, Im in favor of bringing back the old gods. Polytheistic is it?
Shower thought earlier: Humanity truly feels lost.
cabillaud@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
I'm not religious myself neither, but I could have a thing for animism maybe.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 6 pts · 93d
If after I die god turns out to be real, I'd probably still go to heaven because I felt bad about my sins and that's pretty much all that's needed to get into heaven according to the New Testament. 🤷♂️
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 93d
Jesus disagrees with you.
He said the path to Heaven is very narrow and crooked, and few find the way.
The path to Hell is wide and straight, though, so you'll be in good company!
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 93d
Ah so that's why so many church leaders are crooked! A slight misreading of Jesus I guess.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.cafe · 2 pts · 93d
There's also that part about accepting Jesus as your Lord & savior, so make sure you say those words, or get someone to say them over you before your brain waves stop.
You don't want to be kept out of heaven on a paperwork technicality.
red_tomato@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 94d
What if God is real, but you believed in the wrong one and God despises incorrect belief more than non-belief?
You lose.
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
Wilco@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 93d
The concept of absolute forgiveness is terrifying to me. Rape, murder, and make people suffer with greed and corruption all you want ... then say "Im sowwy about all that, forgive me" before you die and into Christian heaven you go. Fuck that. I want no part of that "heaven" ... that is where pure evil will reign, it will be hell.
If I were evil and wanted to corrupt a bunch of religious idiots I would tell them that they didn't have to be decent people, that they could just do what they wanted because a zombie god died for their sins. That would lead them to worship the wealthy and not care about their fellow humans, the suffering would be everywhere. Do you think that could work?
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.cafe · 5 pts · 93d
That's pretty much the way it works now, so, yeah, start your own religion.
chewables@piefed.social · 6 pts · 94d
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 94d
Pascal's wager has always been one of the more absurd arguments that collapses upon minor thought.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 93d
Pascals Wager was already stupid in the 17th century, it hasn't really improved in the 350 years since then. Why do we need to rehash this still.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 93d
"It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled."
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 93d
People tend to develop biases when they are young and reinforce them when they get older.
If you cut across someone's bias, they tend to see that as your attempt to trick them. And they fall back on a body of knowledge/experience that contradicts your efforts. If you encounter someone without bias, it is easy to seed a bias through presentation of slanted perspectives and cherry-picked information when you are their primary source of truth. But if your audience reflexively distrusts you, it is comparatively difficult to reshape their beliefs. You tend to have more luck playing on their distrust of you.
As an example, if you have someone who is racist and fearful of young, strong, black men, it is relatively difficult to tamp down that anxiety when around a person like this who they find intimidating. It is comically easy for a person that fits the description - but who is otherwise cheerful, passive, and pleasant - to intimidate the bigot with idle threats or make a fool of them by playing against their presumptions.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 93d
The broad existential question was interesting. It's part of a conversation about tail risks and cost-benefit calculations that you can apply to much more than just religion.
What I find more curious about Pascal's Wager, from a theological perspective, is the logical consequence. Namely, that you're obligated to find some kind of theological average between all known religious practices to maximize your own personal safety. And that theological average largely boils down to generic positive aphorisms -
Shit we should already know about and are inclined towards anyway. When you take a holistic view of religious studies, it peels away the pastiche and reveals the common truths of human existence. And Pascal's Wager, as a thought experiment, helps navigate people to this point from an abstract logical framework.
CaptPretentious@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
I think it falls under "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it". Each one thinking their the first to come up with this scenario (or act like it, after they saw it online, tv, movie...) likely doesn't hold education (specifically history, philosophy, science, etc) in high regard.
hayvan@piefed.world · 5 pts · 94d
What id it's Muslim God? What if it's Demiurge? What is of it's Nurgle? What if its Zarathustra? What if it's Ra? What if you're trapped in Samsara?
Zozano@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 94d
(Me in the corner injecting heroin into my dick)
"Pls be Slaanesh, pls be Slaanesh, pls be Slaanesh"
Squirrelanna@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 93d
I hope it's Ratatoskr
MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 93d
What if god is a giant bunny rabbit?
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 93d
Repent! The bunny rabbits is coming!
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 93d
But would either of you lose really. If god was real, and he punished you for not believing in him, is he the good guy or the bad guy. Sounds like the later. Which implies there is another who will reward you for just being a good person in general. So you wouldn't lose.
The other option that is more likely if you assume god is omnipotent is that all of the religions are made up by humans. Same with all the rules. A real omnipotent god wouldn't punish his own creation for doing what he created them to do. So again you don't lose.
Darkenfolk@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 93d
If you ever played a sims or rollercoaster game you know this ain't true.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 94d
Hello Pascal's wager, may I introduce you to Roko's basilisk.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 94d
Jesus, don’t make more of them. There’s optimistically like a 50% chance that makes them realize how stupid the argument is, the rest start pissing themselves over the AI god.
borth@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 93d
It's worse. I like this one, Galileo's basilisk. It's a very interesting read, and doesn't take itself seriously.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 93d
Worm fight, worm fight! That was a nice read.
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 94d
Pascal's mugging
It's better to share this one... you know, just in case
jeniferariza@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 93d
That comeback flipped the whole argument on itself. “You lose” has never backfired faster. 😂
baines@piefed.social · 3 pts · 94d
worrying about a christian god compared to human history is like caring about your confederate heritage
Tattorack@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 93d
What if, after you die, you find there is a god, but it's of some long lost central African tribe that got wiped out by some conflict at the dawn of civilisation, and has been vengeful for over 8000 years?
EmpatheticTeddyBear@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 93d
It would be really amusing to learn that what we call a deity, is actually just a higher dimensional being, a child one at that, and we were just a science fair project that didn't even get a participation trophy.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 2 pts · 93d
https://youtu.be/Owsvp9yy7vc
Melvarr told to put his toys away and come to dinner.
JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 93d
Or a moldy bread's electrical signals. ... It would actually be pretty cool.
TBF, we probably are just electrical signals, interconnecting with each other.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 93d
Would you believe that that is basically an actual plot point / lore detail in Animorphs, if you read all the non mainline series books as well?
EmpatheticTeddyBear@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 92d
Never heard of it before. I'll have to look it up.
amgine@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
Ok I want to know more
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 93d
https://animorphs.fandom.com/wiki/Ellimist
So, far before the main storyline of Animorphs, the ancient backstory is roughly 'once there was a race hyperintelligent elf-dwarfish creatures, of whom some played very advanced life simulator / god games, and, following a series of extraordinary events, the last remaining one of their kind basically became an actual god / a dimensionally transcendent being.'
... and, the particular one of these that ended up essentially becoming god, well, he was originally ... pretty much a hikkikomori NEET nerd 'failure to launch' 'professional gamer' kid/adolescent, going by the cultural standards of his species, before it was genocided.
So... its like an ancient alien dork who was really into life simulator / god games just ended up gaining so much knowledge and power that he became able to treat reality itself as one of his games.
Kind of. Sort of. Its more complicated and strange than that.
amgine@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 93d
That’s a lot more than I expected. Thanks! I’ll read more
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 93d
Animorphs is just actually a really good book series.
Yep, the covers are ludicrous.
But to me, Animorphs is basically on the same level as Redwall, very, very good series of books to give to a kid to entertain them, make em more literate, and also expose them to some pretty serious and 'big' ideas and concepts.
A million times better than an iPad.
Also, I guess at this point, they also serve as a pretty good time capsule into 90s/00s culture/lifestyle.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 93d
Pascal's wager: It costs me nothing to believe that Jesus believes in a Yahweist god that supports zionist, roman, and all empires afterwards claiming full divine authority for their genocides. Supporting the church's favorite tyrants must be the path to gaining everlasting rewards if any exist, because that must be what Jesus meant.
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 93d
And it DOES cost something. It costs of course the not inconsiderable amounts of money that Christian leaders demand. It costs your time. It costs lifestyle, as you limit who you see, what you do with them, what you read, what movies you see, etc.
All in all, becoming a Christian because of Blaise, is a losing game.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 93d
The time and donations can be a wash for possible enjoyment of sermon (ok not likely) and community ties/togetherness benefit from membership. The cost is assured loss of soul. Best Church business models are to collect your soul to sell to/serve Satanic evil tyrants instead of teaching truth/humanism. Since Charlemagne, you are not allowed an independent conscience to assess whether your Church/Emperor could be doing evil in the name of your soul (Holy spirit is same matter as divine right to warmongering/genocide of your ruler, and whatever they say in the name of god is axiomatic). But if you do not have the more obvious responsibility for not selling your soul to evil, as path to heaven, then every random person who convinces you the path to heaven is through the sacrifice of virgins or minorities, is a proposition you should consider if there are no social consequences.
Public support for the church may be a very small effort/price to pay. But, contrary to expectations, it is a pledge of demonism that if not necessarily, 90% certainty, damns your soul to any existence of eternity.
groucho@retrolemmy.com · 2 pts · 93d
If the christian god exists and the reward for serving him is eternal life in his presence, I will gladly accept the alternative.
slowmolaggins@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 93d
unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz · -2 pts · 93d
I forgot to informing and yet get you combustor: such a bitch