We know nothing of his alien physiology. He could be like a worm. There are now two mauls, one originally the top, the other bottom. They are probably lovers.
It’s also the plot in a couple of legends and canon books too.
People like to bash the palpatine coming back, but it’s actually a well thought out storyline in the books. A lot of stuff gets lost between the books and the movies though, the whole episode 3 book has a totally different feel than the movie. A whole arc is missing about why he’s so mad to not get the rank of master.
Palpatine was telling Anakin the Jedi masters had the secret to eternal life and it would save padme.
People bash Palpatine coming back because it was not well thought out in the movies. They could have set it up easily in the PT what with all the allusions to the Force being able to be used to influence life and death. Then you have two movies in ST to play with before a big reveal in the final film. But unfortunately all the trilogies were too disconnected from each other, with the ST being too disconnected within itself.
Palpatine being back wasn't even revealed first in the movies, it was revealed in a Fortnite event of all places. Absolutely crazy choice of marketing.
How is surprising? When a Star Wars movie comes out, everything you can think of is branded Star Wars. Yogurts, tooth paste, probably tampons somewhere.
So his double sword, which still functioned when cut in half, was a representation of himself. The sword wasn't modeled for him, it was modeled after him!
Machinery in the Star Wars universe seems to be aware to an extent. Why? What’s the threshold? If I just build a head is that enough? If I just build a torso, is that enough? What about Luke’s cybernetic arm? It seemed to act of its own volition on a couple of occasions.
There’s an issue with cross pollination, too. Maul’s upper half was attached to a crawler droid and he thought he was some cave spider. 3PO’s head was on a battle droid body and he started developing a bloodlust for combat.
So the whole "force ghost" thing requires much time spent meditating in the force. Yoda communed with force Qui Gon to learn it and gave instructions for Obiwan on how to train for it during his exile on Tatooine.
Having completed this meditation training, Qui Gon would have been at peace with dying. Similar to how Obiwan seemed to allow Vader to strike him down during their final duel; only to return through the force to Luke.
Perhaps part of the reason that this technique is not more wide spread is because it inherently weakens ones determination to survive.
The Sith cannot transcend death in this way. They must pour their power into clinging on to life.
I'm pretty sure Anakin showing up as a force ghost kind of disproves the fact that the sith need to do that because that awesome motherfucker only repented for like 30 seconds before he died.
Great, now I want a kung fu Vader training montage. Maybe Palps throwing handfuls of sand at vader while he balances bowls of blue milk on his "limbs" and head.
That's where the controversy comes into play. Cuz the whole force ghost mechanics were written after similar to midicloreans....
There's basically a few explainations.
It's part of his redemption
His midicloreans... / natural affinity with the force
His connection with obiwan, quigon, yoda who all helped him trancend.
Makes for a good ending. (The original reason probs)
...
In an alternate timeline where Lucas finished all 9 movies I could see him re-releasing the movies with some choice edits. Similar to this but a little less tongue in cheek.
George always wanted it to happen, but if I recall correctly you are right, it wasn’t even called A New Hope or had the title crawl until It was re-released shortly before Empire.
I don't doubt he had a bigger story. The conflict between the two mentalities is what led to humorous bits like the Luke & Leia kiss before the knew they were related.
As I understand it George was the ideas man, part of the reason the prequels went off the rails a bit is because he removed himself from people who had helped the original trilogy be what it is, people like Lawrence Kasden. I’ve always been curious which one of them had them kiss and which one of them decided they were siblings as much of Empire was written by Kasden.
It's a pretty widely discussed plot hole. But like plot holes are what you get when you start writing a story that you never expected to finish and then after you finish it decide that was the middle of the story.
it inherently weakens one’s determination to survive
This is a good point. Aren’t Jedis quite selfless though? I would think that they would already not prioritize their own survival over other principles.
When you work on dissolving the self, one big benefit is you stop freaking out so much about death. You recognize that even though you’re locked into this very narrow subjective experience, it’s still one cell in a much larger process which will endure after your death. It becomes much less “the end of everything.”
I would guess that Jedis are totally there and wouldn’t change any of their choices based on whether their little subjective consciousness will cling to existence or not.
There were a lot of moments of the Obi-Wan series that I liked. The whole first episode was great, Ben surviving in his new life in the desert. Loved when he explained the Force to Leia, it felt very OT. Some great Anakin/Obi-Wan moments.
That said, I'm currently reading the Kenobi novel and I'm loving it so far. I think I much prefer it to the series.
Unpopular opinion here but I think Maul coming back after his defeat/death in Ep.1 was the dumbest thing in all of Star Wars lore. He was a lame villain from the beginning, and his miraculous return was not an improvement.
I always liked his episodes in Clone Wars so I was okay with it.
I also kinda like the idea that he survived purely because of his unending rage as it potentially ties in with Palpatine explaining to Anakin that the dark side has the power to unlock immortality.
One of the animated series details how Darth Maul survived. He basically used the Force to cobble a bunch of junk together to serve as his legs. Not like he was gonna bleed out or anything; Lightsabers also cauterize the wounds they inflict.
While Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were on Naboo, some elder Jedi mystic discovered the proper technique to survive lightsaber wounds. The information was not dispersed before Qui-Gon met his fate. Truly a dark irony. However, his death and the re-emergence of the Sith prompted the immediate training of this technique to the point that it became common knowledge even among the most green of padawans.
Or perhaps it’s better to think that maybe Qui-Gon learned this ability while in the Force and has now shared it from beyond the grave, a thing that saved so many Jedi yet could only happen as a result of Qui-Gon’s death.
Qui Gon also accepted the idea of his own death beforehand, and some also think that through his meditation he knew that him dying was the only way that would eventually lead to Anakin being redeemed and killing the Emperor. Maybe the timeline where he survived and looked after Anakin was a worse timeline, he was also starting to get very worried about how the Jedi Order was becoming and that may also have played a role in any potential clairvoyance, with him realising that things needed to get worse for the galaxy before it could heal again properly, so the Order needed to fall.
Charlie Hopkinson has a series on YouTube of Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin watching the movies/series. Every lightsaber death and "death" has Qui-Gon complaining again.
Jedi trust the Force. Its why they are forbidden from forming attachments. When someone dies, they must accept it, even themselves.
Maul refused to die. He refused accept the balance of life and death. He survived on the singular hatred for Obi-Wan and, Force be damned, he would have his revenge.
It's super rad, in my opinion. It makes both Maul and Qui-Gon better versions of what we were shown
There was once a woman, who almost survived a traumatic hemidemiseptomy, which otherwise is rarely done due to various reasons, mainly that it's rarely needed and needs an absolute strength of will from the recipient to avoid an immediate suicide.
I guess in a sci-fi setting like Star Wars, they have some robo-lower body for Darth Maul.
69 Comments
CapuccinoCoretto@lemmy.world · 76 pts · 99d
We know nothing of his alien physiology. He could be like a worm. There are now two mauls, one originally the top, the other bottom. They are probably lovers.
the_tab_key@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 99d
Neither confirming or denying: that may be the plot line of the recent maul series on Disney+
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 99d
It’s also the plot in a couple of legends and canon books too.
People like to bash the palpatine coming back, but it’s actually a well thought out storyline in the books. A lot of stuff gets lost between the books and the movies though, the whole episode 3 book has a totally different feel than the movie. A whole arc is missing about why he’s so mad to not get the rank of master.
Palpatine was telling Anakin the Jedi masters had the secret to eternal life and it would save padme.
JoMiran@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 99d
We're talking about the two halves of Maul being lovers, right?
Right?
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 99d
Hrmm I don’t think I’ve gotten to that story yet. But anything is possible.
mushroommunk@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 99d
You won't hear those stories from a Jedi. You need to go to fanfiction.net and learn the ways of the Sith
jackalofalltrades@pawb.social · 5 pts · 99d
That sounds more like an archiveofourown.org plot, personally.
cattywampas@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 99d
People bash Palpatine coming back because it was not well thought out in the movies. They could have set it up easily in the PT what with all the allusions to the Force being able to be used to influence life and death. Then you have two movies in ST to play with before a big reveal in the final film. But unfortunately all the trilogies were too disconnected from each other, with the ST being too disconnected within itself.
spamfajitas@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 99d
Palpatine being back wasn't even revealed first in the movies, it was revealed in a Fortnite event of all places. Absolutely crazy choice of marketing.
Croquette@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 98d
How is surprising? When a Star Wars movie comes out, everything you can think of is branded Star Wars. Yogurts, tooth paste, probably tampons somewhere.
They made money of Fortnite
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 99d
People want action, and there was enough politics too, adding in “plot armor” force transfer would be too much talking and not enough slicing.
I get why it’s not there, most of the information IS there, just not spelled out, it’s even scrambled if you would.
teft@piefed.social · 11 pts · 99d
OddMinus1@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 99d
So his double sword, which still functioned when cut in half, was a representation of himself. The sword wasn't modeled for him, it was modeled after him!
LetThereBeNick@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 99d
My dog seems to have no conscious control of his back legs. Now I am seeing the bone chews in a new light
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 99d
Machinery in the Star Wars universe seems to be aware to an extent. Why? What’s the threshold? If I just build a head is that enough? If I just build a torso, is that enough? What about Luke’s cybernetic arm? It seemed to act of its own volition on a couple of occasions.
There’s an issue with cross pollination, too. Maul’s upper half was attached to a crawler droid and he thought he was some cave spider. 3PO’s head was on a battle droid body and he started developing a bloodlust for combat.
rf_@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 99d
One’s a top the other’s a bottom ? 😏
kubica@fedia.io · 1 pts · 99d
Neural_drift@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 99d
Ojfc
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 38 pts · 99d
So the whole "force ghost" thing requires much time spent meditating in the force. Yoda communed with force Qui Gon to learn it and gave instructions for Obiwan on how to train for it during his exile on Tatooine.
Having completed this meditation training, Qui Gon would have been at peace with dying. Similar to how Obiwan seemed to allow Vader to strike him down during their final duel; only to return through the force to Luke.
Perhaps part of the reason that this technique is not more wide spread is because it inherently weakens ones determination to survive.
The Sith cannot transcend death in this way. They must pour their power into clinging on to life.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 25 pts · 99d
I'm pretty sure Anakin showing up as a force ghost kind of disproves the fact that the sith need to do that because that awesome motherfucker only repented for like 30 seconds before he died.
crunchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 24 pts · 99d
Yeah but Anakin was literally Jesus.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 99d
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 99d
Fully agree. That's why it's controversial.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 99d
Then what's the story with Vader doing it in RotJ?
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 32 pts · 99d
He stopped being a Sith and then mastered the technique really fast by being a chosen one. It's like that one scene in Kung Fu Panda 2
teft@piefed.social · 6 pts · 99d
Great, now I want a kung fu Vader training montage. Maybe Palps throwing handfuls of sand at vader while he balances bowls of blue milk on his "limbs" and head.
Tess@piefed.blahaj.zone · 16 pts · 99d
According to this 28 year old theory, it's because he died in front of Luke.
There's no dark or light side, there's just trying to die in front of Luke.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 99d
Brilliant
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 99d
That's where the controversy comes into play. Cuz the whole force ghost mechanics were written after similar to midicloreans....
There's basically a few explainations.
It's part of his redemption
His midicloreans... / natural affinity with the force
His connection with obiwan, quigon, yoda who all helped him trancend.
Makes for a good ending. (The original reason probs)
...
In an alternate timeline where Lucas finished all 9 movies I could see him re-releasing the movies with some choice edits. Similar to this but a little less tongue in cheek.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 99d
Fun fact: it was intended to be a 12 part series, like the Flash Gordon or Buck Rodgers serials of the 1930s.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 99d
But critically NOT during the first movie. During ANH nobody expected there to be a sequel.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 99d
George always wanted it to happen, but if I recall correctly you are right, it wasn’t even called A New Hope or had the title crawl until It was re-released shortly before Empire.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 99d
I don't doubt he had a bigger story. The conflict between the two mentalities is what led to humorous bits like the Luke & Leia kiss before the knew they were related.
atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 99d
As I understand it George was the ideas man, part of the reason the prequels went off the rails a bit is because he removed himself from people who had helped the original trilogy be what it is, people like Lawrence Kasden. I’ve always been curious which one of them had them kiss and which one of them decided they were siblings as much of Empire was written by Kasden.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 99d
I'm willing to accept all of the above.
albbi@piefed.ca · 4 pts · 99d
Why you gotta poke a hole in this guy's awesome theory? So mean.
But yeah...
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 99d
Maybe there's an explanation though. Like, Vader is just super powerful and figured it out while in his meditation sphere?
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 99d
It's a pretty widely discussed plot hole. But like plot holes are what you get when you start writing a story that you never expected to finish and then after you finish it decide that was the middle of the story.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 99d
This is a good point. Aren’t Jedis quite selfless though? I would think that they would already not prioritize their own survival over other principles.
When you work on dissolving the self, one big benefit is you stop freaking out so much about death. You recognize that even though you’re locked into this very narrow subjective experience, it’s still one cell in a much larger process which will endure after your death. It becomes much less “the end of everything.”
I would guess that Jedis are totally there and wouldn’t change any of their choices based on whether their little subjective consciousness will cling to existence or not.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · -3 pts · 99d
I think the Sith are one of the few things that present a threat larger than the average Jedi master can navigate.
ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com · 3 pts · 99d
Idunno.... I've seen a lot of sith force ghosts...
Albeit they always seem a bit more haunty and tortured than the Jedi.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · -3 pts · 99d
legit. I wonder if there is a difference.
Aren't the sith ghosts more tied to locations?
cattywampas@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 99d
There were a lot of moments of the Obi-Wan series that I liked. The whole first episode was great, Ben surviving in his new life in the desert. Loved when he explained the Force to Leia, it felt very OT. Some great Anakin/Obi-Wan moments.
That said, I'm currently reading the Kenobi novel and I'm loving it so far. I think I much prefer it to the series.
OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 99d
Unpopular opinion here but I think Maul coming back after his defeat/death in Ep.1 was the dumbest thing in all of Star Wars lore. He was a lame villain from the beginning, and his miraculous return was not an improvement.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 99d
I always liked his episodes in Clone Wars so I was okay with it.
I also kinda like the idea that he survived purely because of his unending rage as it potentially ties in with Palpatine explaining to Anakin that the dark side has the power to unlock immortality.
Auli@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 98d
Immortality is not the same as invulnerability.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 98d
Then substitute immortality with invulnerability in my comment, you still understood what I meant which is the important part of communication
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 99d
All he had going for him was “distinct red face guy”.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 99d
And the double saber
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 99d
To save money the Jedi Council contracted a new lightsaber manufacturing Jedi named Temu
itsjustachairmary@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 99d
Ea Nasir has the best Kyber crystals
MML@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 99d
I got to say I bought a lighter (that will probably blow my hand off) that's pretty damn close to a lightsaber, it even makes the sound!
Drekaridill@lemmy.wtf · 11 pts · 99d
The light saber vaccine, of course
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 10 pts · 99d
One of the animated series details how Darth Maul survived. He basically used the Force to cobble a bunch of junk together to serve as his legs. Not like he was gonna bleed out or anything; Lightsabers also cauterize the wounds they inflict.
Surp@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 99d
What about his asshole and dick? How did he shit and piss?
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 10 pts · 99d
He probably uses the Force and gets hemmeroids.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 99d
It was also his rage that strengthened his use of the force that actually kept him alive. The legs bit just helped him get around.
TheHotze@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 99d
He also had alien physiology that meant he had less important guts in his waist.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 8 pts · 99d
While Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were on Naboo, some elder Jedi mystic discovered the proper technique to survive lightsaber wounds. The information was not dispersed before Qui-Gon met his fate. Truly a dark irony. However, his death and the re-emergence of the Sith prompted the immediate training of this technique to the point that it became common knowledge even among the most green of padawans.
Or perhaps it’s better to think that maybe Qui-Gon learned this ability while in the Force and has now shared it from beyond the grave, a thing that saved so many Jedi yet could only happen as a result of Qui-Gon’s death.
ICastFist@programming.dev · 3 pts · 99d
Guess the younglings didn't get that training until they got older
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 4 pts · 99d
Or Anakin just caused them all to lose the will to live. I hear he has that effect on
womenpeople.MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 99d
Qui Gon also accepted the idea of his own death beforehand, and some also think that through his meditation he knew that him dying was the only way that would eventually lead to Anakin being redeemed and killing the Emperor. Maybe the timeline where he survived and looked after Anakin was a worse timeline, he was also starting to get very worried about how the Jedi Order was becoming and that may also have played a role in any potential clairvoyance, with him realising that things needed to get worse for the galaxy before it could heal again properly, so the Order needed to fall.
MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 99d
Charlie Hopkinson has a series on YouTube of Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin watching the movies/series. Every lightsaber death and "death" has Qui-Gon complaining again.
Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 98d
Jedi trust the Force. Its why they are forbidden from forming attachments. When someone dies, they must accept it, even themselves.
Maul refused to die. He refused accept the balance of life and death. He survived on the singular hatred for Obi-Wan and, Force be damned, he would have his revenge.
It's super rad, in my opinion. It makes both Maul and Qui-Gon better versions of what we were shown
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 99d
somehow Qui-gon returned.
essell@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 99d
The dark side is a pathway to many abilities that some consider unnatural.
ICastFist@programming.dev · 1 pts · 99d
But they have cookies!
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 99d
There was once a woman, who almost survived a traumatic hemidemiseptomy, which otherwise is rarely done due to various reasons, mainly that it's rarely needed and needs an absolute strength of will from the recipient to avoid an immediate suicide.
I guess in a sci-fi setting like Star Wars, they have some robo-lower body for Darth Maul.
TallonMetroid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 99d
A good question! For another time.