Basically, the only modern studio consistently putting out stop motion animation movies, is Laika Studios. And yet, Laika has only had one financially successful movie, Coraline from 2009, while all their other movies have under performed.
However, Laika is currently led and owned by Travis Knight, son of Phil Knight, the owner of Nike. This has enabled Knight to continually bank roll Laika whenever they under perform, essentially making the entire stop motion animation film industry a nepo baby's pet project.
That being said, this is actually a positive story, and reminiscent of how artists previously would be financially supported by wealthy benefactors.
118 Comments
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 166 pts · 92d
i heard about this on a podcast. it is great news for stop-motion, and considering how many shitty rich people there are, it's nice to know there's a couple good ones promoting art.
Also their movies are good and all but one of their movies made tens of millions of dollars.
for stop-motion, a very niche art-form, making 10-130 million dollars profit per film is laudable.
went too big with missing link though, which i haven't seen yet.
Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de · 35 pts · 92d
I don't know if motion animation is the same as other types of films, but for most of the industry you need box office sales to be double of the film budget for it to be considered profitable. Mainly due to marketing budgets and the huge percentage of profit that theaters get for the first few weeks of a film's release.
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 92d
It's pretty different from live action according to creators and producers, it's such a small market and stop motion is so difficult to explain and get off the ground and promote that financial expectations are much more realistic.
You're right that if a live-action movie costs $100 million to make grosses $180 million, the producers are upset, but that's a greedy, ego-driven convention of the modern studio system, they are still making tens of millions of dollars before everything on the back end is added in.
The stop-motion world has a more realistic perspective on production and the artists love every single piece of art they create, so also making $40 million as evidence that their art style can succeed in mainstream culture is the cherry on top of any project that even gets to be fully produced.
ApollosArrow@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 92d
It’s more that if a movie costs $100 million to make, it’s usually $100 million in marketing. So it would need to make $200 million to break even. Making $180 million means someone lost $20 million dollars, so I wouldn’t really call it greedy. If the movies are not making the money then they’d need to just start reducing scope or just hope someone will keep bank rolling them.
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 92d
That's what studios publicly lament about without going into detail. Between streaming, retail and merchandising alone, they're making their money back.
Marketing campaigns are not bankrupting movie profits.
If a studio makes 180 box office on a 100 million dollar production and they say they've lost 80 mil through marketing, they are pulling your leg.
"ah yeah, first quarter my team only made 23 points, oh well, thats the game."
No, there are three other quarters that the studio isn't talking about because it reduces their future negotiating leverage.
Of course studios want more money, but studios aren't losing money on movies that get close but don't tip the magic number of "double the budget"
ApollosArrow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 92d
If you want to count a whole year, then yes it can technically be made up by other movies down the line for the whole studio, but it won’t change the fact that the movie would have been a failure, that’s how budgets work. The same goes for pretty much any business that has projects or quarters.
icanbrewmushrooms@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 92d
They aren't talking about it being made to by other movies, they're saying the movie continues to make money for a long time after it's first week. To give a famous example: in the 90s the Kevin Costner movie Waterworld was declared to be a massive financial flop based on its first week(s) performance in US cinemas, but once you account for worldwide figures and VHS sales it was actually one of the most profitable movies of the decade.
ApollosArrow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 91d
That is very true, but won’t that happen way after the release? That’s usually when these headlines happen.
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 91d
no, classifying a picture that makes an $80 million dollar profit as a "failure" is factually incorrect, albeit a useful tactic for studios and headline writers.
making an 80% profit is a success in any business, and a triumph in most businesses; that's how budgets wotk.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 91d
i want to note for the nonfinancial types: that's profit, not revenue. profit is what you have left of your revenues after your costs.
Any picture that makes any profit (and that profit can be someone buying you tacos once because they liked your film on youtube, so long as they've bought you enough tacos) is a success.
Hell, any film that gets a screening outside the filmmakers' social circles is a success. That means someone liked it enough to share it. Have I moved the goalposts enough that I can consider myself a film success because I do, I'm just playing badminton rather than football.
greenskye@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 92d
This is backwards. Theaters actually get very little percentage early on in the release and only get more later. Most early profits go to the film studio/publisher. Or at least this was how it worked ore-Covid. Maybe it's different now.
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 92d
And to explain your comment a bit more, the production budget doesn't include the very real costs of marketing, distribution, and any back-end royalties calculated from the gross. Plus generally speaking, the movie is financed by lenders and production companies that will need to be repaid with interest, too.
If you've got a $50 million movie and you spend $10 million on marketing/distribution and promised 10% of the gross to people, and the theaters are keeping 10% of the gross, getting a $75 million box office breaks even ($7.5 million to royalties, $7.5 million to theaters, $10 million to marketing/distribution). And that's assuming nothing lost to interest/financing/inflation.
Side note: generally, theaters don't get much in the first few weeks. It's only when a movie shows longer than 3 weeks that the theater starts getting a bigger and bigger cut of the gross.
njm1314@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 91d
I would have to think no stop motion film is spending anything near that much on marketing. I've never even heard of a few of these. That double rule seems more applicable to big summer blockbusters.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 92d
Wow, I usually keep track of their films as I like stop motion, but I wasn't aware Missing Link existed at all, and it came out 7 years ago!
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 92d
I also didn't hear about it until last year, and I don't I have any memory of seeing previews or promotion for the film.
MrEff@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 92d
For the other movies, while they dont meet Hollywood standards of success, they still succeeded. If you spend $60 mil employing people for 2 or 3 years, and are doing what you love, and it pays you back $60 mil to do it again, that's success. Even with the flip in there, the others covered it. As long as they break even, it bankrolls the next movie.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 92d
$418.5M profit on $60M budget, over four movies. $100M profit per movie
Zorque@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 92d
Was that the budget of all of them, or each individually?
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 92d
table says together. I didn't look further because who would be stupid enough to format a table like that if that's not what they meant
Deebster@infosec.pub · 6 pts · 92d
I can see why you'd assume that, but it's not what that formatting indicates. Coraline, for example, individually had a budget of $60M Source 1 Source 2
Zorque@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 92d
Wikipedia. They often combine rows in a column if it's all the same, even if they're independent amounts.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 92d
I now regret donating to Wikipedia
stephen01king@piefed.zip · 2 pts · 92d
That's not how tables work unless they specify it is a totals column.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 92d
which ISO spec is that?
stephen01king@piefed.zip · 2 pts · 91d
Which standard were you referring to when you made your conclusion?
Bane_Killgrind@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 92d
Not 60 each? 418 from 240?
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 92d
the table says $60M budget over four movies, not per movie
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 92d
I don't think that table is formatted correctly, I can't imagine it was $60 million for all four movies. yea, the budget for each is listed around $60 million.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 91d
breaking even with stop motion is laudable. because like we won awards with our films but i think we earned like 5 grand total. we spent way more than that over the years on tacos for the crew alone.
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 91d
Exactly, making $100 million profit on stop-motion is like feverishly, lovingly crafting a bespoke hot air balloon with a thousand discarded model airplane kits and then realizing you've somehow survived landing on the moon.
Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 92d
Ive seen all of these but Missing link too. Watched them with my young son, we loved all of these movies. theyre all gems and you can see the art. I love hearing all this about it, freaking neat
imeansurewhynot@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 92d
That's very cool to hear, cross-generational appreciation.
Elshender@sh.itjust.works · 110 pts · 92d
Me when people forget about Wallace and Gromit.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 92d
Would you like a spot of wensleydale old chum?
Flamekebab@piefed.social · 7 pts · 91d
Speaking of propping things up - Wensleydale were propped up by Wallace & Gromit.
echodot@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 91d
Yeah because the truth is it's actually pretty rubbish cheese. I'm allowed to say that, you can't, but I can.
Hansae@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 91d
Yarg best cheese or a blue west country Brie.
silasmariner@programming.dev · 1 pts · 91d
Lancashire is generally the better white crumbly, but there are certainly good examples of both
Flamekebab@piefed.social · 1 pts · 91d
Bought some back when I lived in Scotland and Somerfield had a deal on multiple blocks of cheese. Didn't finish it.
BCsven@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 91d
Yes I heard they were failing until they got the free advertising. Me I'm a Y Fenni fan.
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 92d
If you have the one with cranberries, yes!
If you have one without cranberries, also yes!
Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 91d
Cranberries, and other bits of crap, don't belong in cheese. Have them with your cheers by all means, but not in it. I like tomatoes and olives with a bit of cheese but I won't be buying a cheese that has formed some perverted union with them.
ripcord@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 92d
Yes
mech@feddit.org · 1 pts · 92d
Sorry, the cat ate it.
NoForwadSlashS@piefed.social · 59 pts · 92d
'Propping up the stop motion film industry' is quite the statement. Aardman Animaton has been releasing feature length stop motion movies since 2000 and all have done very well. Also Laika only worked on Corpse Bride of Tim Burton's multiple very successful stop motion movies.
Rusty@lemmy.ca · 41 pts · 92d
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 92d
I think about this scene so much whenever I'm doing a project
Crashumbc@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 92d
I mean at least he's doing something productive with his wealth. That puts him insanely far ahead of most wealth babies.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 33 pts · 92d
Isn't Aardman (shaun the sheep, wallace & gromit) still consistently put out stopmotion? Or are they just cheating the visual style with 3d animation?
CumbrianCucumber@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 92d
Yeah, Aardman are very much still stop motion (with a few tiny cheats, the stadium audience in Early Man and the sea in Pirates on an Adventure with Scientists).
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 92d
Aardman has had a CG division since the mid-90s. Flushed Away was their first all-CG feature, followed by Arthur Christmas. Pirates! in an Adventure With Scientists was intended to be fully CG but, at the request of Sony, it was changed to stop-motion with extensive CG augmentation.
AppleTea@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 92d
damn, that's a better title than the US got
AppleTea@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 92d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirates!_In_an_Adventure_with_Scientists!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirates!_in_an_Adventure_with_Communists
woaw
mister_flibble@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 91d
They've got an ongoing show aimed at preschoolers called The Very Small Creatures. My 4 year old watches it occasionally. It's simple but cute.
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 91d
Timmy Time and later Shaun the Sheep were staples for my toddler 4-5 years ago.
prettybunnys@piefed.social · 32 pts · 92d
Wes Anderson put out a wildly successful stop motion picture in 2009.
Consistently, sure, but that doesn’t actually mean it’s dead.
LetchLemon@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 92d
Or here me out.... we tax him and his dad. Then use the money to pay stop animation artists so they arent beholden as some rich kids pet project. could even start a few studios instead of one. Early 00's there were a few independant stop motion artists. Only reason they still arent around is due to art grant funding.
sukhmel@programming.dev · 5 pts · 92d
This sounds nice but I expect it will not work as good in reality plus there may be more artists than money if we limit it to only those two.
Tax everyone properly and provide basic income sounds like a way to go anyway
LetchLemon@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 92d
Thats what what i meant. Artists should have better access to funding and foundational wage streams such as a basic income that Ireland is currently doing with musicians.
Suck_on_my_Presence@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 92d
Isle of Dogs is one of my favorite movies
prettybunnys@piefed.social · 3 pts · 92d
Oh shit he did it again in 2018, haven’t seen that but it’s going on my list!
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 31 pts · 92d
Aardman also produces stop-motion, so it is untrue that Laika is alone.
Not such a positive story for Will Vinton, who had a hostile takeover of his studio, and then was fired and replaced by the new owner’s son.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 91d
i was trying to forget the Will Vinton fiasco. I had a friend there.
blargh513@sh.itjust.works · 27 pts · 92d
I liked Kubo and the Two Strings a lot.
However, Mathew McConaughey? He was a very strange choice for voice talent in that film. It did not fit the aesthetic at all, he stuck out like a sore thumb. That southern drawl thing he's got in a movie that has primarily Asian characters? Well all right all right all right.
Gerudo@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 92d
Thank you! I hated his voice for that character. Love the movie, but I feel that was such a mistake.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 91d
huh. i loved the movie but i don't remember him in it. now i'm wondering if i watched it in a language other than english (my first choice would have been vietnamese but that's just because i don't think i've watched any movies made by the vietnam film industry. I should fix that next week) with subtitles on, simply to have the audio's aesthetic match the video's.
B0rax@feddit.org · 21 pts · 92d
What do you mean „financially successful“? The movie Kubo from 2016 had more revenue than budget. Is that not successful?
It is a damn good movie btw.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 92d
https://bombreport.com/yearly-breakdowns/2016-2/kubo-and-the-two-strings/
Breakdown here.
No, it was a loss.
Krelis_@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 92d
Isn't that standard Hollywood accounting?
E.g. Return of the Jedi never made a profit either, on paper
whoisearth@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 91d
I love Hollywood accounting. We collectively acknowledge it's a very real thing because we are all not dumb but at the same time whenever we don't agree with something we can also simply use it as a crutch.
Now that said you may be right, but you may also be wrong. Who knows? 🤷♂️
B0rax@feddit.org · 6 pts · 92d
Ah, so basically Marketing is not included in the budget. And theaters take a big cut from the revenue.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 91d
Yep. Things we normally don't look at when budget to revenue conversations happen.
FluorideMind@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 92d
Sounds like the type of things normal dudes say when asked what they'd do if they won the lottery. Maybe Travis is a normal dude under the nepotism?
Bacano@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 91d
I think that's what the last section of the post was referencing
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
yeah, the
i need to find myself a wealthy benefactor who likes [music form not appreciated outside one town in the eastern US and i like where i live dammit]
svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 18 pts · 92d
Aardman Animations: excuse me?
stsquad@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 92d
Have you never seen any Aardman Animations films?
stenAanden@feddit.dk · 1 pts · 92d
they were mentioned in the video
Kirp123@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 92d
It's a case of Americans thinking they are the entire world.
GorGor@startrek.website · 9 pts · 92d
its hyperbole for clicks. the guy recognizes Aardman in the video and basically just says they are not doing well financially which seems true. https://www.business-live.co.uk/enterprise/aardman-animations-faces-financial-woes-32724904
stenAanden@feddit.dk · 2 pts · 92d
Aren't they closing up shop because the company that makes their animation clay is closing down? https://www.dtmovies.com/the-company-that-made-modeling-clay-for-aardman-studios-has-closed/
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 92d
Not at all, and that was never a possibility. Aardman has several years’ supply in storage, and is securing an alternative supplier. They even have the capability to manufacture it themselves if they needed to.
prettybunnys@piefed.social · 5 pts · 92d
No, it’s a case of a sophomoric view on a subject.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 91d
Are you not counting claymation? Because i'm sure that Wallace and grommit would like a word.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 92d
If I had that dude's wealth I would be putting so many artists on my payroll.
SaneMartigan@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 92d
It sounds like he is.
RheumatoidArthritis@mander.xyz · 4 pts · 92d
I don't get the negative comments, dude could have multiplied his wealth with some good real estate investments and milk tenants for the rest of his life, instead he chose to hire some artists in a dying industry. What a terrible thing to do when you're born rich.
SaneMartigan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 92d
I've worked for a few big CEOs kids, they're a bit fucked in the head because they really don't have to do anything ever. The ones I met seemed to be lounge around hippies who travelled to festivals when they felt like it. I walked one kid through his mothers offices while he picked out furniture he wanted for the house he's just gotten in a trendy part of town. Many thousands of dollar pieces of corporate furniture that he could pick and choose from.
So the Kid of Mr Nike helping keep stop motion alive is cool with me. I really liked "Strings" but I'm not sure if this guy is involved.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 92d
Idk that sounds profoundly negative to me lmao
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 92d
Knox Claymation and Wallace & Grommet beg to differ!
bassad@jlai.lu · 9 pts · 91d
Aren't all artists dependent of some rich guys or rich guy's wifes?
I saw an art exhibition recently, I am not able to buy a 200€ pillow.
Mac@mander.xyz · 9 pts · 92d
In a non-cap society, do stop motion movies still get created by enthusiasts?
I think so.
tunetardis@piefed.ca · 9 pts · 92d
There are certainly worse ways to spend your obscene wealth.
GorGor@startrek.website · 8 pts · 92d
I talked to some folks who worked at Laika a while back at a party. They loved working there. This was some years ago, and my memory is a bit beer soaked, but they seemed happy and proud of what they did.
Janx@piefed.social · 7 pts · 92d
Respectfully, can you clarify, please? "Under-perform" is a term you used repeatedly. These movies were successful, yes? They made more money than they cost to make them...? I don't give half a shit how much money rich assholes expect a project to make. We know how creative Hollywood Accounting can be, so I have a hard time seeing how you can say they weren't "financially successful"...
can@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 92d
Advertising isn't included in the budget numbers.
Janx@piefed.social · 3 pts · 92d
Okay...? Just like production, promotion is a gamble. How much money they can and should spend to (potentially) make more money. How does that change anything?
Steve@communick.news · 2 pts · 92d
Typically, the promotional budget for a movie is roughly equal to its production budget. Add also the portion the theaters get. A $60M budget needs to take in at least $120M. Better $160M+. Any less and they loose money on the movie.
Calling a $60M movie a success for grosing $100M, is wrong. The studio lost money on that movie. It might be a "success" for other reasons. But then it's budget doesn't matter to those reasons.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 92d
I mean yeah, exactly, why give a shit if it made a net profit on GAAP if the guy funding doesn't mind? Like, does it affect you at all in any way shape or form whether Coraline was net loss or profit according to the accountants?
can@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 90d
It changes you saying that they made money, but I agree with your points nonetheless.
Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com · 6 pts · 92d
Got some sources to share? The quick search I did doesn't support your argument.
Also, Aardman is a rocking studio with quite a history. (Yes, I know they went digital for a bit after the fire)
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 92d
The fire is irrelevant. That was storage of historical assets. They have never stopped using models, but also entered the CG business as diversification.
Snapz@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 92d
Did he fall far away from that shit family tree, or does he have his dad's politics?
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 92d
As long as you don’t piss off your patron.
_NetNomad@fedia.io · 3 pts · 91d
i don't know the full story but iirc that was how the band Supertramp stayed afloat until they were successful, patronage from some rich guy
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
Funny timing I just saw a trailer for Wildwood and it looks SICK
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
wait what.
oh whew i thought you were talking about my buddy who used to be at Will Vinton. he's not rich.
Jordan117@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 92d
I just hope they survive long enough to release Piranesi.
Senal@programming.dev · 3 pts · 92d
Fucking what?
A Piranesi stop motion film? Based on the book?
Jordan117@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 92d
Not only that, but the director is a huge fan of the book and is also the CEO of Laika, so there should be no issues with creative differences!
Cypher@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 92d
Bad news, Nike isn’t doing so well financially.
They ditched retail stores, cut R&D and focused on the niche street fashion market and nostalgia.
It turns out none of those moves are good long term.
Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 92d
Im renting Box trolls this weekend, just cuz you said this.
Might even get the DVD box set, who knows
neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 92d
Guillermo del Toro made that pretty successful Pinocchio film not long ago.
And let’s not forget how Laika was once Will Vinton Studios (California Raisins, The Noid ads for Dominos Pizza, The PJs, various holiday specials, The Adventures of Mark Twain etc) before a hostile takeover by the Knight family and eventually rebranded.
All that said, I got to see the trailer for Wildwood on a big screen the other day and it looks legitimately stunning. I’m definitely going to catch it in a theater.
Doublenut@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 92d
And working there means battery cancer.
yakko@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 92d
Say what now?
Doublenut@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 91d
Many of the model makers that work there have gotten bladder cancer most likely caused by the AC glue accelerator that they use a lot of.
yakko@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 91d
Yikes. I didn't realise how bad that stuff was, glad I haven't touched it since I was a kid.
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 92d
Guillotine!