The Xfce file manager, Thunar (4.18 with en-US as language), also has "Create Folder..." under the File menu, and in some contexts in the right-click menu.
Under Preferences, Behavior, it has both "directory" and "folders".
man ls uses "directory" only tho, and of course mkdir.
I feel this deep. Coming around full circle over the past 30-odd years.
Cutting my teeth mucking around and learning DOS 5 with friends on my families first PC, they were directories. Migrating to a support career where everything is stored in folders and now coming out the other side abandoning windows altogether and I'm back to calling everything directories again!
Not any more. I had a student not that long ago ask about the metaphor, ended up having to explain to the whole class what physical files and folders were.
I don't wanna be that guy but are these kids becoming really dumb?
When I was a kid or teen I still knew about things that were in at least 2 3 decades before me, I even knew how to use them. And files and folders are by no means things of the past! We all still use them regularly. Especially in school/office environments.
I don't know how to explain it but I feel like the new generation are so disconnected from the real world and live in a bubble, their domain and depth of knowledge is really bad.
Yeah directory would make more sense if we're talking about something that contains phone numbers.
I guess it makes sense to call /proc a directory, but the things under /home? I interact with a lot of that stuff with a file manager and there's folder icons on them, so...
It doesn't tell me which sector of the hard disk the file data is stored when I type "ls". it lists the files within the container in the path provided in the command line or aprovided by an environment variable or whatever. What should we call something that contains files?
In Windows the command “dir” is used instead of “ls”
Yeah they were called directories in DOS.
The icon is a folder in both Windows and in every Linux desktop environment I've seen. It's not that it's incorrect to call them directories. It's just that it's not wrong to call them folders.
I bought tux stickers to stick them onto the windows icon of my keyboard. However it is a lighted one. So you had tux on top and in a red light the windows icon shined through. It was even more cursed that way.
Microsoft is the one that forced manufacturers to add it, or they couldn't advertise their keyboard as being "Designed for Windows 95", as it is required for the shortcuts (e.g win + d shows the desktop). The "Menu" key was added at the same time so that the Win 95 UI could be navigated without a mouse.
Now they are going the same with the CoPilot key. And poorly - Windows keys send keycode 0x5B and 0x5C. Menu sends 0x5D.
The CoPilot key? Left Shift + Windows + F23, obviously.
Super and Meta refer to two different keys from olden times that no longer appear on mainstream keyboards. So they are emulated using a convenient proxy.
It’s most common on Gnome to use the Windows key for Super, while Meta is set by user preference, often to Left Alt.
Super and Meta have different functions and are not interchangeable, though two given users may map the windows key to one or other.
Yes, a directory is a list of items. Like a telephone directory. A folder is a container of items.
In 2009 I added Folder to the Wikipedia page Directory (computing) Explaining the Folder Metaphor in both English and German (Verzeichnis/Ordner). My clarification has been tweaked and altered slightly to bring it into line with Wikipedia standards, but it has stood the test of time.
I always use the term folder in Linux circles when referring to a container of things. It's useful to stress the importance of the user interface, which is often misunderstood by many there. Be proud!
Firstly, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. And yeah those are the two ways I've thought of those terms. What's weird to me is that saying "directory" to refer to the containing object does sound like you're referring to just the listing itself, as you said, which is ever-changing metadata and to my knowledge that is not stored in/on the folder itself, it would be in the ...whatever equivalent of file allocation tables are now. But, since so many people say directory I've learned to use it interchangeably with folder. Directory feels more technical and somehow more closely attached to the concept of a path. I dunno, words are weird!
Folder is better. On disk, a folder is a list of pairs of a name and number, mapping the items in the folder to their location on the disk i.e. it's a directory. The days before computerization are before my time, but, as I understand it, library index cards worked this way. You might have a card for each author which listed the books by that author with the location of the index card on that book, and you might have directory cards on subjects or keywords too, and the card on a book might point to the location of the book on the shelf and the card for the author, etc., or something like that. It would be most confusing to call these directory cards "folders". The computer does the same thing internally, but the user interface has hidden away any notion of directory. They're logically folders. It's only a directory if you're writing a file system implementation.
More or less same, but I've gotten in the habit of saying "folder" to the younger crowd (at work) to be understood, and now they've become interchangeable, so I will switch back and forth in the same breath, confusing them even further...
As an old person who started on MS-DOS, I've always said "directory", and "program". I had trouble switching to "folder" and then more recently "app". I'm happy to have switched to Linux a couple of years ago so I can just say directory again. The word app, short for application, came from Apple, with the iPhone. No doubt they also liked that is the first three letters of Apple, too. It was specifically for the little programs that ran on iPhone, not meant to replace "program" across the board. But, here we are. Also, "web app" was used to refer to those websites or pages that worked like apps on iPhones, before apps became commonplace. Now, everything from Notes to Photoshop is an "app".
i have looked in the oxford english dictionary, which magically sprang into existence in 1991, and the word application did not exist before apple. COINCIDENCE I THINK SO
I've only seriously been on linux for about 6 months. It's been longer but as far as actually doing the low level linux user stuff in the terminal? - 6 months. Saying 'directory' just sort of happens once you start tinkering in any meaningful way.
At least both sides agree that the big piece of silicon wafer inside the PC is called the motherboard, and not some deranged bougie term like logic board... 🤦
Such simpletons. I use the term File Name Category, since "folders" and "directories" are just a fancy way of referring to longer file names used to sort files. You would think someone using linux would understand this.
78 Comments
nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de · 67 pts · 91d
In KDE, when right-click menu gives you an option for a new "folder". I will call it a folder.
Jack@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 91d
The Xfce file manager, Thunar (4.18 with en-US as language), also has "Create Folder..." under the File menu, and in some contexts in the right-click menu.
Under Preferences, Behavior, it has both "directory" and "folders".
man lsuses "directory" only tho, and of coursemkdir.flameleaf@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 90d
Thunar also calls them folders in the properties window.
And most Linux icon themes visually represent them with a file cabinet folder image...
fleem@piefed.zeromedia.vip · 47 pts · 91d
linux users when they walk into a room:
ls
windows users when they walk into a room
DIR
ranzispa@mander.xyz · 12 pts · 91d
cdlslsWhat was I doing again?
lslsdian@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 91d
I guess most Windows users don't know what DIR is or even where to use it.
"Do you use DIR?"
User: "Do I use what? And don't call me dear."
Opening a folder in Explorer automatically shows the contents, saving the need for an extra step.
ian@feddit.uk · 11 pts · 91d
Here is a container of DIR.
Which is called a pen! Hmmm.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
dir/w/p dude
i ain't read fast enough to use dir. and i ain't use a vertical monitor with my CLI
meathorse@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 91d
I feel this deep. Coming around full circle over the past 30-odd years.
Cutting my teeth mucking around and learning DOS 5 with friends on my families first PC, they were directories. Migrating to a support career where everything is stored in folders and now coming out the other side abandoning windows altogether and I'm back to calling everything directories again!
agentTeiko@piefed.social · 10 pts · 91d
Yep and don't get me started on object storage where everything is a prefix
poinck@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 91d
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 91d
all paths lead to gnome
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 91d
Most file managers on Linux, like GNOME or KDE, have the option "New Folder". It's fine to use them interchangeably, y'all.
KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz · 12 pts · 91d
imo, directory refers to the filesystem concept, folder refers to the UI concept
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 91d
Yeah, but if the UI refers to the same file system's directories also as folders, why do people get so bent out of shape when you call them either?
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 90d
Everyone's gotta have a hobby.
dismay3915@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 91d
I honestly like folders better. It's one of the few good things from windows.
Files are in folders. That makes so much sense.
skisnow@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 90d
Not any more. I had a student not that long ago ask about the metaphor, ended up having to explain to the whole class what physical files and folders were.
dismay3915@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 90d
I don't wanna be that guy but are these kids becoming really dumb? When I was a kid or teen I still knew about things that were in at least 2 3 decades before me, I even knew how to use them. And files and folders are by no means things of the past! We all still use them regularly. Especially in school/office environments.
I don't know how to explain it but I feel like the new generation are so disconnected from the real world and live in a bubble, their domain and depth of knowledge is really bad.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 90d
Yeah directory would make more sense if we're talking about something that contains phone numbers.
I guess it makes sense to call /proc a directory, but the things under /home? I interact with a lot of that stuff with a file manager and there's folder icons on them, so...
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 90d
It's because it's a directory. It's a list of locations for files.
In Windows the command "dir" is used instead of "ls"
AA5B@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 90d
Yeah a directory … that thing we need ldap for, right?
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 90d
It doesn't tell me which sector of the hard disk the file data is stored when I type "ls". it lists the files within the container in the path provided in the command line or aprovided by an environment variable or whatever. What should we call something that contains files?
Yeah they were called directories in DOS.
The icon is a folder in both Windows and in every Linux desktop environment I've seen. It's not that it's incorrect to call them directories. It's just that it's not wrong to call them folders.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 19 pts · 91d
Johanno@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 91d
I bought tux stickers to stick them onto the windows icon of my keyboard. However it is a lighted one. So you had tux on top and in a red light the windows icon shined through. It was even more cursed that way.
embed_me@programming.dev · 7 pts · 91d
What? You expect me to use "Super" out there in the wild and not look crazy?
JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 91d
Microsoft is the one that forced manufacturers to add it, or they couldn't advertise their keyboard as being "Designed for Windows 95", as it is required for the shortcuts (e.g win + d shows the desktop). The "Menu" key was added at the same time so that the Win 95 UI could be navigated without a mouse.
Now they are going the same with the CoPilot key. And poorly - Windows keys send keycode 0x5B and 0x5C. Menu sends 0x5D.
The CoPilot key? Left Shift + Windows + F23, obviously.
guy@piefed.social · 3 pts · 91d
There's another name for the windows key?
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 7 pts · 91d
Super or Meta is and Mac calls it command key
hexagonwin@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 91d
meta is the alt key (option on Macs)
turbowafflz@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 91d
I fairly sure I've seen various *nix tools call it super, meta, and hyper. I think super is the most correct but I've seen all three
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 91d
Super and Meta refer to two different keys from olden times that no longer appear on mainstream keyboards. So they are emulated using a convenient proxy.
It’s most common on Gnome to use the Windows key for Super, while Meta is set by user preference, often to Left Alt.
Super and Meta have different functions and are not interchangeable, though two given users may map the windows key to one or other.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 91d
i call it the "fuck your game" key
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 91d
I use either term. "Directory" is a weird term honestly. I accept it and use it often, but folder finds does make more sense honestly.
ian@feddit.uk · 13 pts · 91d
Yes, a directory is a list of items. Like a telephone directory. A folder is a container of items.
In 2009 I added Folder to the Wikipedia page Directory (computing) Explaining the Folder Metaphor in both English and German (Verzeichnis/Ordner). My clarification has been tweaked and altered slightly to bring it into line with Wikipedia standards, but it has stood the test of time.
I always use the term folder in Linux circles when referring to a container of things. It's useful to stress the importance of the user interface, which is often misunderstood by many there. Be proud!
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 91d
Firstly, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. And yeah those are the two ways I've thought of those terms. What's weird to me is that saying "directory" to refer to the containing object does sound like you're referring to just the listing itself, as you said, which is ever-changing metadata and to my knowledge that is not stored in/on the folder itself, it would be in the ...whatever equivalent of file allocation tables are now. But, since so many people say directory I've learned to use it interchangeably with folder. Directory feels more technical and somehow more closely attached to the concept of a path. I dunno, words are weird!
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
We got ourselves a celebrity, I’m going to call you Hollywood
ian@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 91d
eah@programming.dev · 5 pts · 91d
Folder is better. On disk, a folder is a list of pairs of a name and number, mapping the items in the folder to their location on the disk i.e. it's a directory. The days before computerization are before my time, but, as I understand it, library index cards worked this way. You might have a card for each author which listed the books by that author with the location of the index card on that book, and you might have directory cards on subjects or keywords too, and the card on a book might point to the location of the book on the shelf and the card for the author, etc., or something like that. It would be most confusing to call these directory cards "folders". The computer does the same thing internally, but the user interface has hidden away any notion of directory. They're logically folders. It's only a directory if you're writing a file system implementation.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 91d
Interesting. Thanks for that explanation!
inari@piefed.zip · 12 pts · 91d
Too late, you're gonna get corrected by 4 people
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 91d
wait, windows uses folder?
i've been saying directory since DOS. CD means Change Directory.
lordziv@lemmy.nz · 5 pts · 90d
Also dir to list director contents
cute_noker@feddit.dk · 5 pts · 90d
Dont windows also have a rmdir
I dont know if there are any commands with folder ? Maybe it was a marketing stunt somewhere along the way
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 90d
Oh I'll stunt bill gates's marketing.
toddestan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 90d
The Windows GUI (Explorer) has been using the word "folder" since Windows 95. DOS and Windows before that uses the word "directory".
cute_noker@feddit.dk · 1 pts · 89d
Typical modern features that has to change everything
4grams@awful.systems · 11 pts · 90d
Jokes on them, I’ve been a windows guy so long they have always been directories; I started in the dos days.
Malfeasant@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 90d
More or less same, but I've gotten in the habit of saying "folder" to the younger crowd (at work) to be understood, and now they've become interchangeable, so I will switch back and forth in the same breath, confusing them even further...
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 91d
As an old person who started on MS-DOS, I've always said "directory", and "program". I had trouble switching to "folder" and then more recently "app". I'm happy to have switched to Linux a couple of years ago so I can just say directory again. The word app, short for application, came from Apple, with the iPhone. No doubt they also liked that is the first three letters of Apple, too. It was specifically for the little programs that ran on iPhone, not meant to replace "program" across the board. But, here we are. Also, "web app" was used to refer to those websites or pages that worked like apps on iPhones, before apps became commonplace. Now, everything from Notes to Photoshop is an "app".
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
i have looked in the oxford english dictionary, which magically sprang into existence in 1991, and the word application did not exist before apple. COINCIDENCE I THINK SO
FedX@quokk.au · 9 pts · 91d
Me, earlier today, referring to Niri as a desktop instead of a "window manager," which is also wrong as it's a Wayland compositor.
febrile@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 90d
I say 'drawer' 😏
sleet01@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 90d
MousePotatoDoesStuff@piefed.social · 6 pts · 91d
"Task Manager, my beloved"
"I'm System Monitor now" (Arch+KDE)
"Apologies. System Monitor, my beloved"
Also, the bottom bar with icons and stuff is called "Task Manager" on KDE, which is mildly confusing
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 91d
In spanish wy kind of use both interchangeably... carpeta, directorio.
AA5B@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 90d
I Used to be like this but now I disagree. I intentionally use “folders” instead of Linux directories or gitlab groups.
Folders are distinct and meaningful, while directories and groups have multiple meanings not clear without context.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 91d
If I'm dealing with text, it's a directory. If I'm clicking around, it's a folder.
StarryPhoenix97@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 91d
I've only seriously been on linux for about 6 months. It's been longer but as far as actually doing the low level linux user stuff in the terminal? - 6 months. Saying 'directory' just sort of happens once you start tinkering in any meaningful way.
raman_klogius@ani.social · 4 pts · 91d
At least both sides agree that the big piece of silicon wafer inside the PC is called the motherboard, and not some deranged bougie term like logic board... 🤦
BartyDeCanter@piefed.social · 12 pts · 91d
The biggest silicon wafer is going to be your CPU or GPU. The motherboard is mostly fiberglass and copper.
halcyoncmdr@piefed.social · 6 pts · 91d
Motherboard made more sense when there were daughterboards.
At this point without that the term is much more meaningless compared to alternatives like System board or Main logic board.
poinck@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 91d
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
just call it a mobo and let future generations wonder
SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 91d
Uhm, ackshually, the motherboard is fiberglass, a.k.a. GRP, with copper traces imprinted on it.
Broadfern@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
System board (at least for laptops)
darthsundhaft@piefed.social · 3 pts · 91d
"I'll show you my tiny wand"
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 91d
I put on my robe and coding hat
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 90d
I pronounce "folder" the same way I pronounce "solder", cuz I'm just badass that way.
trk@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 90d
Wait, how else do you pronounce it?
Bazoogle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 90d
I'm an American, let me help. It's pronounced saw-dur.
smeenz@lemmy.nz · 2 pts · 90d
Americans say solder as sorder for some reason.
JackFrostNCola@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 90d
I have also heard it as Sodder, especially when they say 'soddering iron'. Makes my eye twitch
marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 90d
Folder rhymes with solder the way solder rhymes with smolder.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 89d
Getting colder.
Coconut1233@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 89d
They have different pronouciations? I mean they differ very little in the 1st vowel, but it's almost indistinguishable to my brain.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 91d
Such simpletons. I use the term File Name Category, since "folders" and "directories" are just a fancy way of referring to longer file names used to sort files. You would think someone using linux would understand this.
I use Arch BTW. 🎩
Bazoogle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 90d
Where can I download Arch BTW. 🎩?
Malfeasant@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 90d
I understood that reference.
TomasEkeli@programming.dev · 2 pts · 90d
Directory is four syllables. Folder is two. Shorter wins.
akunohana@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 91d
This meme came JUST right in time, as my blood alcohol leves reach appropriate leveleles.