Tim Sweeney claims it’s a “Scarlet Letter” which makes players “try to kill the game”
Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney has criticised rival Valve for forcing studios to disclose when they use AI in game development.
Epic recently showed how it was integrating AI into Unreal Engine 6.
Time Sweeney said:
“If you want to launch a game, and get it as widely publicized as possible, you’ve got to put it on Steam so people can wish list it, and if you want to play it on Steam, then you have to get this Scarlet Letter of AI attached to your product, and now there is a hater community trying to kill the game.
“I think it’s really irresponsible of Valve. They shouldn’t do it, because it makes it much, much, much harder for a game developer to have a chance of success. You have to choose from either not using tools that can make you way more productive, and probably failing due to competition that does.”
Which is totally ignoring the factor that the user should know about the purchase it makes and be able to decide for themselves. Transparency for the player is not a bad thing.
135 Comments
jellyfishhunter@lemmy.world · 150 pts · 45d
So, if a dev uses AI, they fail because of haters, but they also win because they're more productive than devs that don't?
Being strong and weak at the same time is always a fun rhetoric.
Also, afaik, Valve only asks for disclosure of generative AI for asset generation, not productivity tools like coding assistance.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 48 pts · 45d
Given how Microsoft has really jammed AI code-assist down the throats of developers whether they want it or not, it would be kinda crazy if they did. The "contains AI" tag would be on virtually everything that touches Visual Studio, hollowing out its value as an indicator.
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 45d
I think that is a valid point. That's why Valve changed the initial policy. If I remember right, in the beginning it was "Ai" in general, without this distinction. But this is still not 100% clear (even if we assume the devs are not lying). In example is generating code with Visual Studio "generative Ai"?
fushuan@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 44d
It is, but it's not asset generation. That's the distinction. Assets are an already defined concept, textures, UI elements and so on.
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 20 pts · 45d
yeah it sounds like the old immigrant taking your job but also cashing in welfare
Goodeye8@piefed.social · 5 pts · 45d
You just don't understand Sweeney logic. If you use AI you are more productive as a developer so you win, but you can't win because you need to let everyone know you used AI so you lose. So to keep the winners winning you need to make sure the thing that makes them lose doesn't happen.
Okay, in all seriousness I can understand his developer-centric takes but it's pretty clear he still treats gamers, the actual consumers of the product, as cattle. We exist only to give money to game developers so they could make games, at least according to satan Sweeney. I was just wondering if he's finally come around with all the improvements the Epic store is getting but no. Let's just hope that bright mind at Epic gets to keep their job because it's pretty clear it wasn't Sweeney's idea to improve the Epic store.
jellyfishhunter@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
As something of a developer myself, I'd argue he has a developer-centric take. He's probably more focused on profits.
I'd say a developer wants to create a quality product rather than hastily cobbled together slop. Especially when we're talking about asset generation. Sure, you save money and time by churning out generic AI assets, but you gain quality from an actual artist. I guess improvements on the Epic Store are exactly that.
Funny how the greedy of the gaming industry never understand that quality gets them money rather than quantity.
kibiz0r@midwest.social · 91 pts · 45d
Very “if we stopped testing for COVID there would be no cases” energy.
DebatableRaccoon@lemmy.ca · 73 pts · 45d
Sweeney's not a fan of informed purchase practices. Good to know, Tim, I'll make sure to not float any cash your way.
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 31 pts · 45d
I'm not really surprised. That was clear when they started with the Epic Games Store without user reviews.
FooBarrington@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 44d
Capitalists in general hate information being freely available, because it reduces arbitrage options.
sylver_dragon@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 45d
Hadriscus@jlai.lu · 50 pts · 45d
can we have two weeks without a shit take from Tim Sweeney ?
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 45d
Unlikely.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 44d
Maybe if he goes into a coma or gets hit by a bus or something.
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 50 pts · 44d
I don't get it, if AI is so great and the future, wouldn't you be happy to disclose your use of it in your product?
HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml · 45 pts · 45d
Usually it's more responsible to disclose things.
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 45d
Exactly. It's like hiding the amount of ingredients on the packaging for food, just because it looks bad and people would boykott it.
ragepaw@lemmy.ca · 44 pts · 45d
Weird way to admit they're using AI, but OK.
artyom@piefed.social · 39 pts · 45d
Timmy is just mad because his new game engine pressures devs to fill their games with AI slop, and Steam will force their developers to disclose it.
digdilem@lemmy.ml · 35 pts · 45d
Hmm... Do I side with Epic, famous for:
Or with Steam?
atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone · 20 pts · 45d
arent lootboxes a problem with valve too?
ryathal@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 45d
Yes, but they aren't as young of an audience maybe idk. One bad thing in common isn't too bad.
ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip · 7 pts · 45d
It's bizarre seeing people side with Google and apple over their absurd walled garden percentages.
Not liking Epic doesn't mean Google or apple are in the right.
carmo55@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 44d
The percentage is the wrong problem and regularing app stores is the exact opposite of what android and iphone really need, which is an unrestricted experience of using alternative app stores.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
I don't think they claimed google or apple were right in those cases. Everyone can be wrong.
ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip · 1 pts · 43d
They presented those two suits as being knocks AGAINST Epic, while snarkily misstating the premise of the cases.
Apple, in particular, was egregious in trying to force charging a percentage for things purchased NOT through their app store. By that same standard, Apple would also take a 30% cut of shit bought off of the Amazon app.
So, yes, they heavily implied it. I know everyone can be wrong. That was MY point.
Yttra@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 45d
Yes, and?
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 44d
I bet sketchy food producers also balked at the idea of ingredient lists when they were first rolled out. If you're offering something to others and think they might not like something you used in it, maybe it's better to avoid the thing rather than complain that you're being forced to tell people about it.
Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 27 pts · 45d
"we should be able to lie and sneak ai in. If they found out they wouldnt want it, and the people paying for it shouldnt have any say in the matter"
Utterly deranged take, as expected from him
Furbag@pawb.social · 26 pts · 44d
I want to play quality games crafted by hand with love and intention and an artistic vision that the author brings to life.
Anybody who tries to argue that their product won't sell if the consumer is well informed doesn't make a quality product worth buying anyway.
Don_alForno@feddit.org · 23 pts · 44d
That's because we don't want slop in our media, and we have a right to not want it.
What this shithead is saying is that customers should be lied to so they can't choose a product based on what they actually want.
nickiwest@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 44d
He's also saying that "choosing not to purchase" is the same as "killing a game."
Guess I'd better pour one out for the literal thousands of games I've personally killed.
Mycatiskai@lemmy.ca · 22 pts · 44d
He thinks his game won't sell because it has the AI scarlet letter but if he doesn't use it, his competition would have an edge over him because they use AI.
Does he realize how stupid he sounds since they would then have the scarlet letter of AI and his game wouldn't and would then sell better.
Soleos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 44d
It's still stupid, but he's talking about review bombing forthcoming AI games across all platforms because they disclosed on steam vs forthcoming AI games that aren't listed on steam that don't disclose on other platforms.
christian@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 44d
I can't even get mad, I find it genuinely funny that that's the argument he came up with to elaborate on why AI disclosure mandates are irresponsible.
It's full-on "no one reads past the headline anyway" effort-level without understanding that people who read past the headline are his only possible reachable demographic, because not looking past the headline is defaulting to the easy assumption that Epic is just spewing garbage.
bold_atlas@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 44d
AI content is so loathed and despised that the influencers, film studios, software developers who have embraced it are simultaneously all desperate to downplay, lie and hide it.
But definitely not a speculation bubble! Keep repeating to yourselves that demand for AI is real and that people really value all the nauseating disgusting chatbot generated "art" and "insight" that you're spewing upon humanity.
kehet@sopuli.xyz · 19 pts · 45d
They see that AI badge lowers their profits so of course they are lobbying against such thing. Big corps are not your friends.
nonentity@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 44d
If you’re proud of your use, it’s a non-issue, if you’re ashamed of it, why are you using it?
Transparency is only ever an issue when concealment and deceit are core elements of the activity.
vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 16 pts · 45d
It's wild that a CEO can just say this out loud without a mob of haters trying to kill their product.
Krudler@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 44d
Complete lack of self-awareness making such a statement.
In order to be successful, games have to launch on our competitors platform!
Moron.
Captain_Patchy@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 43d
Epic games can shove it's corporate opinion up it's own corporate ass.
Korne127@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 44d
Epic Games CEO can go fuck himself!
Scio@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 45d
🤡
st3ph3n@midwest.social · 14 pts · 45d
Boo fuckin' hoo, Tim.
juipeltje@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 45d
Bro is just salty cause he has to admit he likes using AI slop if he wants to publish on steam
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 45d
With an attitude like this, you have to wonder how many EA development teams are simply going to lie when prompted.
Not that they've released a game worth playing in a long time, but this makes me suspect the entire studio is drowning in AI slop.
thejoker954@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 45d
Ai is great for EA slop. A "new" sports game every year that is the same as the last with some stat changes.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
I mean, I don't even mind that on its face. If you really feel like you need to pay $80 to get the roster on your FIFA soccer game updated... that's between you and the business bros that run your local sports game sweetshop.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 13 pts · 44d
Tim Sweeney continues to be a whiny jealous entitled bitch, more at 11.
thymos@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 44d
You don't have to, just don't use A.I. Easy.
lemmelemmy@feddit.org · 13 pts · 44d
Then he’s more than welcome to hide the ai label on his own sales platform. Oh right, no one using epic games. So unfair
dRLY@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 44d
While I think I understand what he means with regards to catching hate for being marked "AI". I think it should be marked, but give a scale of sorts. Then it is easier for people to decide what things they are "okay" with vs what they aren't. Like "AI voice over" is different than a game done "Mostly/completely AI". Which would also help the random people that really like AI to find games using it (obviously that crowd is niche).
Maybe allow marking in detail elements that are AI place holders for Early Access games, where the dev is a small team or single person (no excuse for AAA games with huge budgets). The context matters, and people that don't want any AI would already be leaving really bad reviews when they find out AI was used at all (along with demanding refunds). Could even be good for those Early Access games to find people to work with in replacing the place holders if people see things are still needed and reach out.
Would also be good if the same kind of scale markers could be applied to games that don't use AI but do use pre-made assets. Not like AI is the only cause for all the slop games.
Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 43d
Isn't this literally what Steam does? Every game I've looked at that has an AI tag explicitly states where/when AI is used and, usually, its for stuff in development that gets switched out. Not always, mind you, but thats usually the tag that I see. Stuff like Liar's Bar will then also have the tag saying AI Voices and what not.
dRLY@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 43d
I hadn't noticed, but cool that they already have something more transparent than just a vague "AI is used" stamp (and nice to have some tiny validation to my headspace not being a terrible idea lol). Then it for sure means the Epic Games guy is just reaching for weird hills to die on.
Captain_Patchy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 43d
My god!
A well thought out and reasoned opinion? I can't believe it took me this long to leave reddit!
Honestly, if visual elements are ai created I am not sure I even care. AI is (now) really good at that and if it saves the devs weeks or months of drawing graphics that they can spend on the story or the action of a game, I (so far) think I am ok with that.
dRLY@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 43d
lol I'll take the vote of approval! Currently the topic gets boiled down to "everything AI is slop" automatically, but removes situations where it can be used as a tool in a more "correct" sense. I would be happy if devs/studios started using it on some level to help bring back real optimizations so some games would actually use hardware to the fullest. And not just rely on people just constantly buying new GPUs or feel like the high-end hardware is a requirement.
Just need to make sure to test and re-test the results, and maybe good devs would actually go back to see how the optimizations were done to try doing it themselves (and not just get lazy/dumb in their own code). The cash grab vibe-coded slop stuff should be called out at all times. Just like the pre-AI asset flipping shit that was already flooding stores. Would also be great if bad reviews call out specific issues and not just blanket say "AI crap" or something like that to help other people have a better picture of things.
unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 43d
If what Steam does is such a problem for everyone involved, why doesn't Sweeny make a better product himself then?
Oh, he has but it's worse?
Whould've thought!
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 43d
Remember when Epic Games Store launched and Tim defended the barebones functionality and quality, in comparison to how Steam launched barebones back then? That was his justification. Having real competition is a good thing, but it has to be a competition, not exclusivity. GOG does a good job and providing value.
ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 43d
Epic lacked a search bar and a shopping basket for months after launch. He compared his 2018 product with a 2003 product and still lost.
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 44d
His last "point" doesn't make any sense.
If "you've got to put it on Steam" and Steam tells you whether a game used AI or not, then everyone is on the same playing field.
That means if you think your game will fail because everyone is boycotting AI games, you are free to not use AI... and you won't "probably fail due to competition that does," because their games are also on Steam!
Hope I am explaining what that sounds like to me (a contradiction of his whole statement).
Also he can go to hell. Gaming is being kept alive by Steam and It's always little timmy trying to tear it down with his shitty manipulations. Why doesn't he buck up his ideas and go make an actual competitor to Steam?
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 44d
As a fan of AI, I want disclosure. Just as tech vegans get to avoid AI, I too would be able to actively seek out games that are doing neat things with it. Disclosure is good for everyone.
prime_number_314159@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 45d
Wait, so studios will have to avoid using AI tools, but then other people that do use those tools will be eating their lunch? Either there are a significant number of people that will base purchasing decisions on whether a game used AI in production, or there are not. This is a trivial question to answer by polling customers, or looking at what happens with competing products in your market segment, or any other variety of basic market research. Companies have to work with questions like this constantly.
Epic is exclusively mad because they think there are many people that will avoid (or pay less for, or delay purchase, or expect higher quality, or more worthwhile content, or... Anything like that) games that are produced with AI, and every game made with UE6 will have to bear that scarlet letter, and suffer lower sales. If they really believed you can make much bigger and better games with the new tools, then they would do it, and people will get over their skepticism to play fun games.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 44d
I don't care that much, but I rather have that information then not.
Fuck him, and fuck Unreal engine.
Soleos@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 44d
“If you want to launch a
gamesnack, and get it as widely publicized as possible, you’ve got to put it onSteamstore shelves so people canwish listsee it and if you want toplay it on Steameat ot, then you have to get this Scarlet Letter ofAIingredients attached to your product, and now there is a hater community [of parents] trying to kill thegamesnack. ... I think it’s really irresponsible ofValvethe FDA. They shouldn’t do it, because it makes it much, much, much harder for agame developersnack company to have a chance of success. You have to choose from either not using tools that can makeyou way more productiveyour product way more addictive, and probably failing due to competition that does [in less regulated markets?]."Captain_Patchy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 43d
Your only problem is that Valve is not the only market.
By a long shot
Soleos@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 43d
Yes, that's part of the parallel. Both videogames and snacks involve multiple markets.
Kellenved@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 45d
What a nincompoop, an ignoramus! A real maroon!
Prior_Industry@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 44d
Some people will be turned off, some people won't care. Don't see the issue of labelling games as containing AI assets as some people want to support games made through 100% human input, give them that ability.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 44d
Epic sucks, unreal sucks like nobody acts like mcdonalds is the worlds best burger because it sells a lot, it's easy cheap junk food. But these software ceos think they actually produce great software when it's just easy cheap junk too.
DupaCycki@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 44d
Take a shot whenever you hear or read 'Epic Games CEO says'. Physically impossible to read that shit sober.
chunes@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 44d
If his statement makes you angry but you use AI for coding and don't disclose, you're a hypocrite.
Mangoholic@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 44d
Why should they fail when the competition fails by default in his argument.
Grass@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 45d
oh nooo, I'm so scared of my game losing to the competition using AI tools that everyone fuckin hates. Whatever will I do to have value in the eyes of the customers?
Mangoholic@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 44d
Here is a more nuanced argument. Steam marks ai use generally, so even if your game just uses text to speech for accessibility reasons, the hate will immediately go towards ai use even tho nobody would mind it if the rest is handcrafted.
grinning_serpent@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 44d
Yes, I wouldn't mind a more detailed description of how and where AI is used.
Mangoholic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 43d
They do, but nobody reads that, it gets the ai tag and that's enough.
ryper@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 44d
Steam lets developers include a description of the AI use, not just whether they used AI. This is the "AI Generated Content Disclosure" for Stellaris:
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 44d
Baylahoo@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 44d
I agree with you. I think using an AI tool to figure out what type of voice you want and then hiring someone to perform the actual game dialogue would be more appropriate. It would be like using ai images to help a storyboard project. I guess you could use an artist for that and have them do different iterations is an argument against it. Voice acting seems to be more limited unless you know who will be the voice despite knowing the end target. Early dirty work that never makes it further is the only place I want to see AI in gaming. Unless the game is based around AI as the core component like procedurally generated rogue likes. I don't enjoy that style of game so I'd be fine with that not happening either.
Mangoholic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 43d
Yes but the ai tag is there and nobody reads that description after seeing ai first. So it is effectively the same.
RagingRobot@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 44d
Yeah I feel like some uses are fine. When it's used as a tool with thought and consideration.
These giant companies just want to replace people with AI though and flood the market. It would be nice to have more information
Mangoholic@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 43d
Another issue is when using ai without the knowledge, you bought some assets on the store that did not display ai use, steam bans your game.
Zacryon@feddit.org · 2 pts · 43d
That may lie in the developer's responsibility to ensure. But it would be of course eaxier if such assets were reliably labled.
vathecka@lemmy.radio · 1 pts · 43d
Nah, just use SAM or something. Slop is never necessary.
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space · 7 pts · 43d
Sure sweeney, how about you address your defence of Grok doing kiddy stuff first.
GarboDog@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 45d
Imagine using AI, an environmentally and moral impact. People should be aware of that before making any kind of purchase; Valve not only agrees with such, but also is enforcing such policies in places they can enact such causes. Those who cry out it’s unfair are the people who want to hurt the environment and the people (both workers and customers)
No one’s asked nor wanted this treatment. Tim swiney has horrible takes and should be processed like any other capitalistic pig
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 45d
Hey Tim grab deez nuts dickhead.
ech@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 45d
Fuck off, Sweeney.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 45d
Lol
CoolSouthpaw@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 44d
What a piece of shit. Stfu.
lennee@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
how about fuck off?
Wrrzag@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 44d
If disclosing the use of genai will make a game fail, then not using it can't make studios "fail due to conpetition that does", because said competition will fail. You just said that, Tim.
Korne127@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 44d
You didn't read correctly. He said that you either have to not use GenAI or fail due to competition that does (not use GenAI). So yeah, that's as it should be.
Wrrzag@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 41d
Yeah, but just a paragraph before he said that using genai will make your product fail due to boycott. Thus, a game that does not use genai can't fail to competition that uses it because they themselves will fail.
TwodogsFighting@lemdro.id · 3 pts · 44d
GAMES PUBLISHERS, YESTERDAY..
Zacryon@feddit.org · 3 pts · 43d
AI tools make game development way more productive? You mean by producing bugs and incoherent art?
I don't mind use of AI tools as long as the product is not obviously sloppy and the people who created the data that was used for training get a juicy compensation (given how much money others make off of it). While the first may sometimes be the case, the latter isn't.
sunbytes@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 42d
God forbid we give consumers the ability to make informed decisions.
Fellas, is it woke to vote with your wallet?
nicpicname@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 40d
Stop using AI in your now $80 “experiences” then
Epp@lemmus.org · -19 pts · 44d
I don't like Tim Sweeney, or Epic Games, but I agree with him in this. In the future everything will use AI to some extent, and labeling it as such is stupid. It's like having a label for whether electricity was used, or whether computers were used. It will be meaningless in short order, and just slows down the entire industry by painting targets on games that are using modern development processes.
Besides, if the AI is THAT onerous, then you don't need a tag to identify it. It should be obvious, right? Make decisions based on the quality of a game, not based on what tools were used to create the game.
auzy1@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 44d
How does it slow it down?
AI for Art is basically a way for large companies to profit from other people's work, and not pay for it (but mixing it up a bit). They could simply pay the artists for the assets, and it would be done faster..
Maybe the people whose work may have been stolen by AI wouldn't be appreciative to pay for games that potentially use it instead of paying artists..
Also, its not a ban on AI work. It's simply disclosure. Epic games is just trying to pick a fight about literally everything
Epp@lemmus.org · -4 pts · 44d
It slows it down by causing developers to fear using the most efficient, productive tools because it will anger the irrational mob who down votes anything they disagree with, rather than whether or not it's adding to a discussion.
If some creation is clearly a copy/paste of someone else's work with only superficial changes then that is it's own problem that can be dealt with in the same way that it would if some person had copied someone else's work, and made superficial changes to claim it as their own. Art created using AI is not necessarily a copy of something existing, and it takes a skilled prompt writer to create their intention. People angry that a different skillset than is traditionally necessary to create art are being awnry gatekeepers in the same way that artists were at the advent of computer assisted drawing or computer generated imagery. New technology, same type of crybabies gatekeeping art creation.
I recognize that it's not a ban, it's just an unnecessary requirement in the current implementation. If it's going to be done, at the very least categorize it so AI code generation is separated from the AI art generation, or other generative tools. I still assert that none of it should be necessary, and if it in some way lowers the quality of the creation then it will be readily apparent and can be judged based on the quality, not the method of creation itself.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 44d
AI is only capable of hastening our own murder by these techghouls with the heat and pollution it causes. Sure it's neat sometimes. Is that worth the entire ecosystem and your food systems? If you say yes, you should seriously seek help.
Epp@lemmus.org · 0 pts · 44d
That's not true, it can be done using solar energy and closed loop cooling. Be angry with companies that are mismanaging it, not the technology itself.
auzy1@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
AI doesn't think. AI is a marketing name.. there is nothing intelligent about it
It literally is just a database of stuff it copied off the Internet and didn't give people credit for
That's the problem
AI isn't paying people for using their information for training
The only reason it's profitable at all by these companies is because it randomizes stuff so you can't prove what components of your work something has copied
Epp@lemmus.org · -3 pts · 44d
That's an interesting theory, but not accurate.
It's the sum of human knowledge, and it's available for free. The use of their hardware is what they charge for, but you don't have to use it. You can use local hardware.
It's getting costly to do so because some bad actors are buying it all up. Those companies are the ones that have my ire, but being upset with the technology itself is misplaced anger.
Also, it's not profitable. They're losing an unfathomable amount of money, hoping to make it back when people become reliant on it. Don't - use your own hardware and models locally. It's not difficult to setup.
auzy1@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 44d
What's not accurate about it
They literally are using training data and selling it without permission from the original authors
If you want to pretend like it's actual intelligence, that's up to you (I assume you have Nvidia shares you're trying to protect).
But, it's really just a legal piracy program at this point.
Epp@lemmus.org · -2 pts · 44d
They do think. Have you tried Gemini Pro? It even provides you with a steam of consciousness prior to answering your prompt. So does Qwen 3.6 when used locally. It's also not a database, it's a neural network with digital synapses - not unlike our own brains. The difference is they are digital, and we are biological.
No one is selling models, they're selling processing time on the servers that host the models. You can download a model and use your own hardware for free.
I don't own any shares of any company. I do have a Master's degree in Computer Science with a major of Artificial Intelligence, though.
Piracy would be selling someone else's work, and that's not happening. That's like saying an artist is pirating all the content they've watched to inspire turn when they make anything. Nothing is being sold, other than time on a server, and you don't need to pay that to use AI. It's completely free if you host it locally, which I do.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 43d
It's not available for free, they just stole it, actually the same way highschoolers used to torrent copyrighted work to get their homework done.
Epp@lemmus.org · 0 pts · 43d
You are woefully wrong.
Or, when you click here, you don't have an option for download? Maybe you're special, and you're the only one not allowed to download the models for free 🤔
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 44d
In the future, exactly. Not quite today.
Epp@lemmus.org · -7 pts · 44d
Yes, and the foot draggers want to keep us out of the future as long as possible, and this helps them to accomplish that.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 44d
Out of that future? Yes. Abso-fucking-lutely. You are describing literal hell. You are trying to upend and destroy every single thing that humanity has ever worked for or attained by STAINING AND CORRUPTING it with the hallucinations of rocks.
Get the actual fuck out of here.
Epp@lemmus.org · -3 pts · 44d
Such hyperbole and vitriol. You're obviously not a rational, thinking individual.
Save that level of hate for the fascists taking over the world, the industry/government leaders exacerbating climate change or something truly horrible. Not technological advancement.
Get the actual fuck out of here with your exaggeration and misplaced aggression.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
Have you don't any research on the environmental impacts of data centers? Please do.
Epp@lemmus.org · 1 pts · 44d
I have. I oppose data centers. Not AI, which I use locally with solar power. The technology shouldn't be castigated because of the actions of big players using it. That's like being opposed to plastic surgery because of Mar-a-lago faces, when some use it to recover from debilitating injuries. Being anti-AI casts too large a net and stigmatizes those using it responsibility.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 44d
I don't think that it is a responsible or logical thing to exponentially increase our energy needs while we are desperately (should be anyways) attempting to transition to renewable energy. AI consumes a ludicrous amount of energy for something that could almost always be done with a human.
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 44d
Not everyone. Just like people hate Ai and don't want to have it, there are developers who think the same. Even if its in everything, why not disclose it? Why hide the ingredient and then we don't know what kind of Ai was used? I hate the idea of hiding it, and acting like humans did the work. But in fact assets maybe stolen from unethical copied sources baked into the Ai models. If people have a problem with that kind of approach, then we have a right to know. What was done exactly? Some background posters? Voices?
Epp@lemmus.org · -2 pts · 44d
They hate it irrationally, based on misinformation and mob mentality. There are no legitimate reasons to hate it. There are plenty of reasons to hate the companies and their practices that are developing it, but the technology itself is blameless.
People who use open source models, on local hardware are being caught in the crossfire and being required to disclose what tools you use leads to prejudice by people who hold that irrational hatred and misinformed prejudice. It's harmful with no benefit to anyone.
If there are copied sources then THAT is the problem, and plagiarism easily identifiable, with existing remedies for the crime.
Why do you you feel you have a right to know when it has no impact on you, other than enabling your prejudice? If it's truly bad, it should be self evident and no disclosure is thus needed. The fact that it is necessary to have disclosure to determine if AI was used demonstrates that it is irrelevant. Regardless of what tools were used, the final product should be judged on its own merits and faults. Judging based on the tools used, and not the product itself, is infantile.
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 44d
Who are "they"? There are Nintendo haters. Should we stop talking about Nintendo, just because people could hate it? If there are misinformed people, then we should not hide it, but start informing them. If a few people troll review in Steam, should Steam stop doing reviews for everyone? Because they did troll reviews or misinformed reviews and rating?
Why do you feel you have the right to tell how others rate a final product, and whats important to them? It should be disclosed transparently and then people should judge themselves.
Epp@lemmus.org · -2 pts · 44d
"They" are the anti-AI mob. Like the anti-woke mob, but for artificial intelligence instead of non-white people and women. Same idea, different target.
Your analogy doesn't make any sense. You know when something's made by Nintendo, because Nintendo makes it. For all you know, they use AI, but since they're not bound by Valve's stupid rules you would never have any idea. Why would Steam take away reviews? Just because some people misuse it doesn't mean there would be a blanket removal. That sounds like you're arguing for my case actually: just because there are some bad actors, it doesn't mean you hate the system used by the actors.
Then where do you draw the line? Should they disclose if women worked on a game? Men? Trans? Non-binary? Should they disclose whether they used Windows? Linux? Mac? Should they disclose whether they used markers or paint for their concept art? Some people hate each of those things listed, so you think we should enable discrimination against them, too, by requiring disclosure so people can make their own decisions?
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 44d
No, they should tell if Ai is used and what is being done. There is no line. Every single human has the right to decide for themselves, even to boykott because the stars didn't align. Its their right. I don't know if the gender of the developer should disclosed or not, that is an entirely different topic with an entirely different meaning. Maybe you don't understand the difference between Ai and human? Because the gender of the human has nothing to do with the issues the Ai brings to the table. And why mention if they used Windows or Linux or whatever operating system? What is your thought process to bring this into our discussion?
I think you try desperately to muddy the discussion and the critique brought on the table, with non relevant examples as a counter argument.
Epp@lemmus.org · 0 pts · 44d
Windows, Max and Linux are tools in game development, same as Visual Studio, Photoshop or AI. Only one of them is being singled out for disclosure.
I think you seem to believe AI makes games in a vacuum, and there are no people involved. It's not the AI that suffers due to the boycott by the ignorant, it's the people who make the games. You like to desperately pretend that no people are involved in the process, but that is a delusion. You're hurting people with your prejudice, not AI.
thingsiplay@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 43d
Because it does not matter if you use Windows or Visual Studio. These are not generative tools based on stolen data. Ai is. If you don't understand the difference and why people have an issue with Ai, then no wonder we don't agree on.