The shit thing is that the American healthcare system is designed to put the blame on the healthcare providers and not the politician, hospital administrators, private healthcare networks, and insurance companies that actually control the cost of healthcare. Media like this just reinforces this and errodes what little public trust we still have with the providers.
I am a provider specializing in orthopedics and rehabilitation, and I have literally no ability to tell you how much my care cost, or how much money the hospital is making from my own labour. That's unless I break the law and just treat you for free and write the appointment down as a consultation, which I do as much as I can get away with.
Healthcare doesn't pay the way it used to, very few specialties make an obsesne amount of money compared to the time you spend on education, and the time you spend at work. If your goal is to make a lot of money, there are a lot easier fields of study with much higher returns than healthcare.
Most physicians nowadays make slave wages until they are 30, even longer if you do a fellowship. Then you spend another decade paying off your student loans. Most physicians graduating now won't really make anything until their 40s, and so you have about 20 years if you don't burn out to make enough to one day retire. At the peak of their career in your 40s, the average MD is pulling in 250-300k and working 55-60 or more hours a week at a hospital. Meanwhile a person with an MBA is making more with a master's degree with a 9-5 at a bank.
My other half and I have been dealing with an elderly family member recently, and the amount of intentional stupidity and obtuseness on the part of the people on the money side of the problem is breathtaking.
Yeah, getting a straight answer from the billing department even for providers is super frustrating. A lot of it is because hospital networks and private insurance companies have secretive reimbursement contracts that they don't want providers or patients to have access too.
Yeah, same thing here. A good practice is to write the date and time of the call, who you're speaking to, and the calls reference number. I will usually summarize what we discuss and then repeat the information back to them.
If you have all that information you can usually hold them to what they told you.
Well, I know in my hospital the first step would be to complain to the clinic manager. They can usually act as a go between for you and the billing department.
If that doesn't work, pretty much every hospital has some kind of patient advocacy department. Ours is a third party called the Joint Commission for Quality and Ethics, they actually do it for a lot of hospital networks. You could register a complaint to them and back it by saying you plan to register a complaint directly to CMS if it's not resolved. Even if you don't have Medicare, if the hospital accepts Medicare they have to follow CMS Guidelines, which include protection concerning accurate billing.
This will make the alarms go off and probably cause an internal face to face meeting between the provider, management, and the billing department. So it's kind of a big gun to reach for if your problem isn't very large.
I just wanted to say that this cartoon needed doctors to visually work. It would not have been as effective to have a "hospital administrator" name tag on a random person listening to the dude lament his dead son. Like the joke doesnt work as well in that way.
Maybe have one doctor and one suit, with the suit asking the question? Make it clear that the doctor is there for medical reasons and the suit is an obnoxious parasite that had no business being involved at all.
The shit thing is that the American healthcare system is designed to put the blame on the healthcare providers and not the politician, hospital administrators, private healthcare networks, and insurance companies that actually control the cost of healthcare.
America is the one who invented tipping culture.
it was always all about shifting the blame off of upper managment who do nothing, paynothing while they rake it in
but then what did we honestly expect of a country designed by slave owners.
When you really get down to it, it's the people who vote against single-payer who are to blame. The insurance companies are acting in their own self-interest, and the politicians simply represent the people who voted for them.
... cosmetic surgeons are still medical doctors, so they have the same insane schooling/residency requirements as everyone else. Plus, they have a purpose in a hospital in helping to plan surgeries to reduce the appearance of scars. It's not just vanity, my dude.
Chiropractor, though, that's a "medical" field that has no actual resemblance to medicine or the massive debt burden therein. Plus, they're a joke to begin with. Much better punchline.
Definitely on the higher end of medicine, but I'm still not sure if it's really going to be a higher pay off than someone with an MBA. You still have nearly 20 years of school, residency, and fellowship before you start making any money.
There are only around 7500 cosmetic surgeons practicing in the US, compare that to almost half a million investment bankers...... I'm pretty sure you're going to have an easier time pulling in a million a year in banking than in surgery.
We aren't talking about the average MBA, I specified an investment banker, most of which have an MBA. There are just a lot more people and positions for someone with an MBA.
South Korea might have more surgeons per capita, but it's a small country. There are around 7500 cosmetic surgeons in the US and only around 2500 in South Korea. And again, you're probably going to have a higher chance of being wealthy doing finance or working for one of the chaebols. Fellowships for something like cosmetic surgery are extremely competitive.
You would be surprised how frequently healthcare providers do this. We are more aware of the outrageous expense of healthcare than just about anyone, and most of us know exactly why.
When the United CEO got shot it was a bizarre day. There were senior pediatric physicians making jokes during work meanings about a dude getting gunned down and everyone was pretty jolly about it regardless of political leanings.
thats why MDs, MED SCHOOL is a rich person career or at least well off. disadvantaged students often stayed disadvantaged, unless they somehow got thier md from another country.
even nursing with less schooling can make bank by being a travelling nurse, and tech workers.
every other health job, is either underpaid or just above 100k year with significant requirements like rad tech, cls, pharmacy, and health technicians are the most "taken advantaged of" jobs.
I don't see your doctor's advocating and protesting for universal health care. You guys should be doing a lot of shit you ar not. Fucking backwards shit hole.
You also aren't looking for it apparently? Physicians for National Healthcare Program is a group of over 20 thousand physicians advocating for a national healthcare program.
We're not politicians, we don't have anymore power than you do, and we are all in the same boat. My healthcare gets worse and more expensive every year as well. Plus, changing over to a medicare for all programs would save me dozens of hours of paperwork a week.
Most physicians under about 40 would love a socialized healthcare network. The people older than that are typically stuck in the "I did my time, now I want my reward mindset". To get more people on board in the industry the largest hurdle would be lowering the cost of education, and doing away with the low wage residency programs that work you to the bone for nothing. Without addressing those while lowering wages, you're basically asking providers to go into debt for the rest of their lives.
Well, yeah. In their minds they sacrificed a lot of time, money, sweat, and tears to earn a salary that can reimburse them for their hundreds of thousands of debt and decades of little to no pay.
To fix medicine in America we are going to have to fix the education program. No other country pays physicians as much as the US, but no other country requires you to take out a fortune of loans to become a physician. The system is designed to pressure physicians into keeping the reward system going.
I think if we initiated a student loan forgiveness program and did away with a residency program that was or designed for a time when you were able to use cocaine to get you through your day....... A lot more physicians would be on board than there already are.
I see how student loan forgiveness and lowering the cost of education would help, but what's actually wrong with the residency progam that makes you say to scrap it rather than rase the pay? As someone who knows next to nothing, isn't it basically just a was for medical students to gain some experience and turn theoretical knowledge into practical knowledge?
It's supposed to be for them to gain experience and turn theoretical knowledge into practical, however it's mainly used as a cheap form of labour. The students make next to nothing and are often working/on call for 80 hours a week.
They learn a lot, but past a certain point they aren't retaining any knowledge, and worse can be dangerous to the patients. A lot of hospitals are basically run by mostly residents being guided by a handful of attending physicians.
this is what you say to the public. behind closed doors
Everyone knows physicians get together to scheme about our public image as soon as we finish our notes for the day.......
end of our field and i will have to retire because I don't want all those fucking medicare patients."
The vast majority of money spent in healthcare is from Medicare. Pretty much everyone but odd boutique clinics gladly take Medicare patients. It's not the 90s anymore, CMS reimbursement is often higher than private insurance and comes with a lot less paperwork.
may have the teensiest bit of professional experience i'm not sharing
i may have the teensiest bit of professional experience i'm not sharing.
Based on the rest of your comments in this thread, you may also be pulling shit out of your ass. So far, you're giving the current US administration a run for its money in credibility.
I know a couple doctors and have worked for multiple clinics and got to roam the back offices, and your assertions are nothing like what I experienced, even if I don't have 123 graduate degrees that are #1 in all fields or whatever.
I mean, better is subjective. As far as cost and time goes, not many fields beat medicine. A lot of doctors can have up to 18 years of higher education and specialty training, and none of it is generally paid for like other graduate programs. And again working hours vary from field to field, but I know some er doctors who work 60-70 hours a week.
Lastly my point wasn't to whine about the pay, it was to illuminate that it isn't the physicians or other healthcare providers that are primarily benifittting from increase of healthcare cost. If that's what you took from the post, then you might just be projecting your feelings about your position in your own field.
Lastly my point wasn't to whine about the pay, it was to illuminate that it isn't the physicians or other healthcare providers that are primarily benifittting from increase of healthcare cost.
I guess reading comprehension isn't one of the many fields they've got top PHDs in...
(Seriously, they probably need help and I hope they get it, the topical issues with getting proper healthcare notwithstanding)
each of my postgraduate degrees is number one in my field
Your field has multiple "number one" post graduate degrees? Seems like that statement may conflict with itself.
how much regurgitation you do in that 18 years of "higher" education
It's a linear education path, it's not like you are going to have someone doing an orthopedic fellowship "regurgitate" information they learned in biochem.
long enough educating MDs to know what dipshits y'all are.
And I'm sure you won't be willing to tell anyone what you taught these dipshit MD, or what your field of study is? Nothing what youve responded with gives me any confidence that you have any professional interaction with medicine.
When my grandfather died, my mother had to block my dad from the front door because the goddamn billing department called LITERALLY 3 HOURS AFTER HE FUCKING DIED to know who would be taking care of the bill. He was ready to walk into their billing office and start swinging. So was I, but as a teenager there wasn't much I could do without transportation...
When my grandfather died and my mom got a call about a bill, she was understandably upset. I told her that I'd take care of it. She handed me the phone and I asked how I could help. They told me they were calling concerning ${GRANDFATHER_NAME}. I interrupted and said, "hold on, lemme go get him," and then muted the call and waited to see how long it would take them to hang up.
Your boss: Well you used up all 12 weeks of your unpaid FMLA getting that little guy to all his cancer treatments, and you can only do that once every 5 years. But you still have 12 hours of PTO accrued and of course there's our generous bereavement benefit of 16 unpaid hours. So, please, take all the time you need to recover from this, up to the 28 hours of leave time available. In these troubling times, remember that CCT Logistics in there for you, we're family after all.
At one of the best companies I ever worked for, we had an employee who unexpectedly lost his sister with whom he was very close. I never got the full story, but it was sudden and tragic.
H.R. and his manager sat down with him when he went on extended leave to go over the over the policy for how much time he could take and then basically told him "fuck the policy, take all the time you need and let us know when you're ready to come back."
I really liked that company until private equity ruined it.
they never talk about "hey, so let's go over my formulary and see which of what you're recommending is actually covered by my insurance". they turn pale at that sentence
No no. aim it for the actual funeral day if you're going for maximum hit rate. Maybe get it hand delivered. With a brightly colored Uber eats coupon that advertises celebrations
"Sorry I don't make the prices, I just benefit from them"
Not saying doctors don't deserve a good wage, but they are absolutely aware of the unfair healthcare system in the United States. Could they band together and advocate for change? Yes, and some do. Should more? Probably. Do a lot of doctors not care cuz they're rich anyway? Probably.
This varies a lot by specialty but many doctors would like to see less patients and would be open to be paid less to do so, so that they can take more time on each case.
There was a time (boomer era) where doctors owned practices and had meaningful leverage in the system. Now all of those practices have been bought out by private equity. Most doctors are employees and if they band together in any way the hospital administration has tools to stamp it out because this is America.
I've worked at several instiutions in the US where either doctors or nurses sought to unionize and through that effort institute safer patient care practices. The hospital administration stamped it out in every case. Even just the optics is challenging because if you make the suggestion of a strike they will run to the media and insinuate you're betraying your oath and putting patients in danger. Many people are guilted out of participating.
There are somewhat successful unions in the country but if you're in a region where there isn't one, having a grassroots one succeed is very difficult.
Perhaps the most influential and lucrative specialties (neurosurgery, interventional cardiology, orthopedics) could move the needle if they didn't have to spend all their time working but everyone else who isn't an MBA administrator has unfortunately become a replacable cog in the system. This is the nature of American capitalism. It enshittifies everything.
In dunno. At least in France I witnessed an Australian badly injured from a wingsuit accident spend some months in intensive healthcare (in coma). His family was very worried by the incoming bill, because he was not a French resident.
The doctors basically said (I was the one translating) : we're there to save a life. Don't worry, when he's OK you'll all go back to Australia, then we'll send you a (enormous) bill. If your insurance doesn't want to pay, do what you want with it.
Iirc there was a Simpsons or South Park or something - doc hands the dad an insane bill for a broken leg, the dad reads it and proceeds to have a heart attack. Doc: "ooh, sorry to do this, but that'll actually add another $25k"
There are supposed professionals who care only about the money and nothing less. In any country.
Where I am, the Philippines is one of the top exporters of professional labor -- including medical -- and often they don't come back because of low wages regardless of the job... unless the individual is amoral and capable of cunning; politicians, certain bureaucrats, high-ranking police and military officers, and their oligarch friends are just on top of the food chain.
I'd like to add on this bit that people often miss:
In Canada, the healthcare system's costs include salaries for healthcare workers, supplies, training, and other necessary costs
In the US, the healthcare system's costs include all of the above, in addition to all of the parisitic layers. Just the insurance layer includes insurance shareholders, insurance executives, insurance overhead (marketing, admin, aggressive claims denial), lobbying, etc. Then there are similar costs from each of the private corporations that own the hospitals, the clinics, the ambulance services etc.
That is why the American system is much more expensive and much less efficient with the money. Since Canada's system is still partially private and it never got fully actualized to the original vision (in part because of lobbying from the US), we have some of those inefficiencies too.
Now the thing is, a large segment of the working US population would not be able to afford healthcare because of these parasitic layers. The US government needs to enter this system to keep it afloat, but they have to pay the much higher costs.
So for an American, not only do their taxes ALSO go towards healthcare, but the US spends far more per capita on it. It changes year to year, but double the spending is what I've usually heard.
as if that was a bad thing? do you understand that's how insurance is supposed to work? spread the cost, so nobody had to pay much, but in the relatively rare cases when care is needed, they can get it. but in for profit insurance it's so that investors make money
Never said anything about anything being bad. No matter how the pay comes I still like a government agency setting a maximum on the cost of treatments and medical items. Even in a no insurance pure open market or in a completely socialized medicine state there's no need for a hospital to have profits greater than a grocery store aka above 1% to 3%. Although profits in a socialized medicine state aren't quite the same since the buyer and seller are the same entity, but doesn't stop products or services being purchased at X and sold at Y on the books.
Government collects taxes, government pays for socialized medicine with taxes along with other things. Maybe government sets up a sovereign wealth fund with taxes and that fund does well which also helps pay for social care programs.
I mean I guess at some time in the past. I watched a pretty in depth video on Norway's sovereign wealth fund last year I kinda remember. Generally the concept of a government and taxes isn't too complex and is taught in school.
But it's not slapped in the parents' face right after they lost a loved one. "You're never going to see your son grow up, cry at his wedding or have beers with his husband, but chin up: this bill is still cheaper than college."
136 Comments
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 94 pts · 47d
The shit thing is that the American healthcare system is designed to put the blame on the healthcare providers and not the politician, hospital administrators, private healthcare networks, and insurance companies that actually control the cost of healthcare. Media like this just reinforces this and errodes what little public trust we still have with the providers.
I am a provider specializing in orthopedics and rehabilitation, and I have literally no ability to tell you how much my care cost, or how much money the hospital is making from my own labour. That's unless I break the law and just treat you for free and write the appointment down as a consultation, which I do as much as I can get away with.
Healthcare doesn't pay the way it used to, very few specialties make an obsesne amount of money compared to the time you spend on education, and the time you spend at work. If your goal is to make a lot of money, there are a lot easier fields of study with much higher returns than healthcare.
Most physicians nowadays make slave wages until they are 30, even longer if you do a fellowship. Then you spend another decade paying off your student loans. Most physicians graduating now won't really make anything until their 40s, and so you have about 20 years if you don't burn out to make enough to one day retire. At the peak of their career in your 40s, the average MD is pulling in 250-300k and working 55-60 or more hours a week at a hospital. Meanwhile a person with an MBA is making more with a master's degree with a 9-5 at a bank.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 47d
My other half and I have been dealing with an elderly family member recently, and the amount of intentional stupidity and obtuseness on the part of the people on the money side of the problem is breathtaking.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 16 pts · 47d
Yeah, getting a straight answer from the billing department even for providers is super frustrating. A lot of it is because hospital networks and private insurance companies have secretive reimbursement contracts that they don't want providers or patients to have access too.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 47d
It's not just getting a straight answer, its getting the same answer twice from the same person that seems to be too hard.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 47d
Yeah, same thing here. A good practice is to write the date and time of the call, who you're speaking to, and the calls reference number. I will usually summarize what we discuss and then repeat the information back to them.
If you have all that information you can usually hold them to what they told you.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 47d
That's what we have to do. Even then they play stupid.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 47d
Well, I know in my hospital the first step would be to complain to the clinic manager. They can usually act as a go between for you and the billing department.
If that doesn't work, pretty much every hospital has some kind of patient advocacy department. Ours is a third party called the Joint Commission for Quality and Ethics, they actually do it for a lot of hospital networks. You could register a complaint to them and back it by saying you plan to register a complaint directly to CMS if it's not resolved. Even if you don't have Medicare, if the hospital accepts Medicare they have to follow CMS Guidelines, which include protection concerning accurate billing.
This will make the alarms go off and probably cause an internal face to face meeting between the provider, management, and the billing department. So it's kind of a big gun to reach for if your problem isn't very large.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
And if you're dealing with a nursing home instead of a hospital?
FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 47d
I just wanted to say that this cartoon needed doctors to visually work. It would not have been as effective to have a "hospital administrator" name tag on a random person listening to the dude lament his dead son. Like the joke doesnt work as well in that way.
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 5 pts · 45d
Maybe have one doctor and one suit, with the suit asking the question? Make it clear that the doctor is there for medical reasons and the suit is an obnoxious parasite that had no business being involved at all.
Atropos@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 47d
You sound like a good person. Don't let the system wear you down!
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 46d
Thanks, I do my best! I'm lucky enough to work at a children's hospital, so that helps in the morale department.
Smoogs@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 46d
America is the one who invented tipping culture.
it was always all about shifting the blame off of upper managment who do nothing, paynothing while they rake it in
but then what did we honestly expect of a country designed by slave owners.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 46d
And absolutely don't sleep on the fact that tipping was implemented as a way to not pay former slaves working in restaurants.
Always amused me (not in the funny way) how hard some people fight for literal slave wages
nanometer1625@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 47d
When you really get down to it, it's the people who vote against single-payer who are to blame. The insurance companies are acting in their own self-interest, and the politicians simply represent the people who voted for them.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 47d
Eh..... Yes and no. The capital side of medicine wouldn't be spending the big bucks to influence the media and politicians if it didn't work.
eyelevel@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 47d
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 46d
If only…
lechekaflan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 47d
Cosmetic surgery, for one.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 47d
... cosmetic surgeons are still medical doctors, so they have the same insane schooling/residency requirements as everyone else. Plus, they have a purpose in a hospital in helping to plan surgeries to reduce the appearance of scars. It's not just vanity, my dude.
Chiropractor, though, that's a "medical" field that has no actual resemblance to medicine or the massive debt burden therein. Plus, they're a joke to begin with. Much better punchline.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 47d
Dentistry is the one that is still legitimately in medicine that makes money. the difference is in the liability insurance.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 46d
I can't fucking believe how health insurance is not good enough to cover my mandatory bones AND my luxury bones. Fukkin racket....
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 47d
Definitely on the higher end of medicine, but I'm still not sure if it's really going to be a higher pay off than someone with an MBA. You still have nearly 20 years of school, residency, and fellowship before you start making any money.
There are only around 7500 cosmetic surgeons practicing in the US, compare that to almost half a million investment bankers...... I'm pretty sure you're going to have an easier time pulling in a million a year in banking than in surgery.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 47d
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 47d
We aren't talking about the average MBA, I specified an investment banker, most of which have an MBA. There are just a lot more people and positions for someone with an MBA.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 47d
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 47d
I wasn't comparing it with your average MD, I was specifically comparing it with one of the highest paid specialists in the field....
No, just someone who is more skilled at reading comprehension and retention than you.
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 1 pts · 45d
Sure, but how's your handwriting?
lechekaflan@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 47d
Not in US but much in South Korea. And it is goddamn cutthroat.
Also, the few ones paid under retainer by aging billionaires, earning more than their equivalents.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 47d
South Korea might have more surgeons per capita, but it's a small country. There are around 7500 cosmetic surgeons in the US and only around 2500 in South Korea. And again, you're probably going to have a higher chance of being wealthy doing finance or working for one of the chaebols. Fellowships for something like cosmetic surgery are extremely competitive.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 46d
doesnt that still require you to become an MD, and the cost and competitiveness to become one is still there.
lechekaflan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
Yeah, they do. Read up.
yermaw@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 46d
You're playing the hero in basically every medical TV show
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 46d
You would be surprised how frequently healthcare providers do this. We are more aware of the outrageous expense of healthcare than just about anyone, and most of us know exactly why.
When the United CEO got shot it was a bizarre day. There were senior pediatric physicians making jokes during work meanings about a dude getting gunned down and everyone was pretty jolly about it regardless of political leanings.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 46d
thats why MDs, MED SCHOOL is a rich person career or at least well off. disadvantaged students often stayed disadvantaged, unless they somehow got thier md from another country.
even nursing with less schooling can make bank by being a travelling nurse, and tech workers.
every other health job, is either underpaid or just above 100k year with significant requirements like rad tech, cls, pharmacy, and health technicians are the most "taken advantaged of" jobs.
systemglitch@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 47d
I don't see your doctor's advocating and protesting for universal health care. You guys should be doing a lot of shit you ar not. Fucking backwards shit hole.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 47d
You also aren't looking for it apparently? Physicians for National Healthcare Program is a group of over 20 thousand physicians advocating for a national healthcare program.
We're not politicians, we don't have anymore power than you do, and we are all in the same boat. My healthcare gets worse and more expensive every year as well. Plus, changing over to a medicare for all programs would save me dozens of hours of paperwork a week.
Most physicians under about 40 would love a socialized healthcare network. The people older than that are typically stuck in the "I did my time, now I want my reward mindset". To get more people on board in the industry the largest hurdle would be lowering the cost of education, and doing away with the low wage residency programs that work you to the bone for nothing. Without addressing those while lowering wages, you're basically asking providers to go into debt for the rest of their lives.
boonhet@sopuli.xyz · -6 pts · 47d
And there are tens of thousands of other providers who do NOT want pay cuts.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 47d
Well, yeah. In their minds they sacrificed a lot of time, money, sweat, and tears to earn a salary that can reimburse them for their hundreds of thousands of debt and decades of little to no pay.
To fix medicine in America we are going to have to fix the education program. No other country pays physicians as much as the US, but no other country requires you to take out a fortune of loans to become a physician. The system is designed to pressure physicians into keeping the reward system going.
I think if we initiated a student loan forgiveness program and did away with a residency program that was or designed for a time when you were able to use cocaine to get you through your day....... A lot more physicians would be on board than there already are.
StumblingWasabi@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 46d
I see how student loan forgiveness and lowering the cost of education would help, but what's actually wrong with the residency progam that makes you say to scrap it rather than rase the pay? As someone who knows next to nothing, isn't it basically just a was for medical students to gain some experience and turn theoretical knowledge into practical knowledge?
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 46d
It's supposed to be for them to gain experience and turn theoretical knowledge into practical, however it's mainly used as a cheap form of labour. The students make next to nothing and are often working/on call for 80 hours a week.
They learn a lot, but past a certain point they aren't retaining any knowledge, and worse can be dangerous to the patients. A lot of hospitals are basically run by mostly residents being guided by a handful of attending physicians.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 47d
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 47d
Everyone knows physicians get together to scheme about our public image as soon as we finish our notes for the day.......
The vast majority of money spent in healthcare is from Medicare. Pretty much everyone but odd boutique clinics gladly take Medicare patients. It's not the 90s anymore, CMS reimbursement is often higher than private insurance and comes with a lot less paperwork.
I'm sure you know best.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 46d
Based on the rest of your comments in this thread, you may also be pulling shit out of your ass. So far, you're giving the current US administration a run for its money in credibility.
I know a couple doctors and have worked for multiple clinics and got to roam the back offices, and your assertions are nothing like what I experienced, even if I don't have 123 graduate degrees that are #1 in all fields or whatever.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 46d
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 46d
Lol, I've provided more credibility so far than you have. Keep telling us about the 9001 higher degrees you have
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 47d
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 47d
I mean, better is subjective. As far as cost and time goes, not many fields beat medicine. A lot of doctors can have up to 18 years of higher education and specialty training, and none of it is generally paid for like other graduate programs. And again working hours vary from field to field, but I know some er doctors who work 60-70 hours a week.
Lastly my point wasn't to whine about the pay, it was to illuminate that it isn't the physicians or other healthcare providers that are primarily benifittting from increase of healthcare cost. If that's what you took from the post, then you might just be projecting your feelings about your position in your own field.
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 3 pts · 45d
I guess reading comprehension isn't one of the many fields they've got top PHDs in...
(Seriously, they probably need help and I hope they get it, the topical issues with getting proper healthcare notwithstanding)
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 47d
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 47d
Your field has multiple "number one" post graduate degrees? Seems like that statement may conflict with itself.
It's a linear education path, it's not like you are going to have someone doing an orthopedic fellowship "regurgitate" information they learned in biochem.
And I'm sure you won't be willing to tell anyone what you taught these dipshit MD, or what your field of study is? Nothing what youve responded with gives me any confidence that you have any professional interaction with medicine.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 47d
TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 47d
So your tremors made you type out an incoherent sentence? Even if you had specified "fields", your sentence still wouldn't have made any sense.
And you still haven't stated what you teach or your fields of study.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 47d
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 46d
Let me guess, you also have a SUPER hot girlfriend, she just goes to a different school, so we don't know her?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 46d
slazer2au@lemmy.world · 92 pts · 47d
Eh, there is a different department for that.
AbsolutelyNotSpez@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 47d
And they will bill him to death 5 minutes later, tops.
EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 27 pts · 47d
When my grandfather died, my mother had to block my dad from the front door because the goddamn billing department called LITERALLY 3 HOURS AFTER HE FUCKING DIED to know who would be taking care of the bill. He was ready to walk into their billing office and start swinging. So was I, but as a teenager there wasn't much I could do without transportation...
fartographer@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 47d
When my grandfather died and my mom got a call about a bill, she was understandably upset. I told her that I'd take care of it. She handed me the phone and I asked how I could help. They told me they were calling concerning
${GRANDFATHER_NAME}. I interrupted and said, "hold on, lemme go get him," and then muted the call and waited to see how long it would take them to hang up.InvalidName2@lemmy.zip · 60 pts · 47d
Your boss: Well you used up all 12 weeks of your unpaid FMLA getting that little guy to all his cancer treatments, and you can only do that once every 5 years. But you still have 12 hours of PTO accrued and of course there's our generous bereavement benefit of 16 unpaid hours. So, please, take all the time you need to recover from this, up to the 28 hours of leave time available. In these troubling times, remember that CCT Logistics in there for you, we're family after all.
Hasherm0n@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 47d
At one of the best companies I ever worked for, we had an employee who unexpectedly lost his sister with whom he was very close. I never got the full story, but it was sudden and tragic.
H.R. and his manager sat down with him when he went on extended leave to go over the over the policy for how much time he could take and then basically told him "fuck the policy, take all the time you need and let us know when you're ready to come back."
I really liked that company until private equity ruined it.
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 46d
Can't have capital and nice things.
modus@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 46d
Tell that to our billionaire overseers.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk · 31 pts · 47d
I'm too British to understand
krashmo@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 47d
Not for long
M137@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 47d
I'm too anywhere but the US to understand.
the16bitgamer@programming.dev · 1 pts · 47d
As a Canadian I too don’t understand the joke, eh?
dubyakay@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 47d
You will understand it soon.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 46d
'Murica is a broken country
There's a reason why the civilised world sneers at it
osanna@lemmy.vg · 6 pts · 46d
Wtf happened to these comments. Holy shit
Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 46d
right? did someone do a thought crime? let us see shit
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
Probably something I said that upset some stupid 'Murican and kicked off from there
CriticalThought@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
There are many places where people must pay for healthcare. See, for example, parents dancing in China to raise funds to treat their children’s diseases
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
There are
But the predatory and cruelty of the 'Murican system is particularly egregious
x00z@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
You say China but you replied to:
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -3 pts · 46d
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 46d
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 46d
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -3 pts · 46d
Smoogs@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 46d
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 46d
Smoogs@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 46d
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 46d
Smoogs@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 46d
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 46d
Smoogs@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 46d
CADmonkey@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 46d
TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com · 28 pts · 47d
Doctors never talk about costs.
That's why hospitals pay administrators so much money.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 47d
they never talk about "hey, so let's go over my formulary and see which of what you're recommending is actually covered by my insurance". they turn pale at that sentence
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
You have chosen to make being unpleasant the defining feature of what passes for a personality
I pity you.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 46d
try harder if you're trying to hurt my feelings dude
strawberry_enjoyer42@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 25 pts · 47d
This? This is freedom. 🇺🇸 🦅 🎸🔥
i need to get out of here o_o
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
There are so many civilised countries that welcome the smart 'Muricans who want to get out
strawberry_enjoyer42@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 45d
I'm aware, but it takes a lot of effort to immigrate, and executive function goes brrrrr
I have European citizenship, but I really like the idea of Canada (where I might be eligible for citizenship due to having a Canadian ancestor).
AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip · 25 pts · 47d
With american logic couldnt you say that their service didnt work cause your son died so you want a refund? /s
Jackinopolis@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 47d
Enter suing for malpractice.
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 47d
You should wait a week or two for it to really settle in, maybe try to send something after the funeral, just mark it "past due".
Smoogs@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 47d
No no. aim it for the actual funeral day if you're going for maximum hit rate. Maybe get it hand delivered. With a brightly colored Uber eats coupon that advertises celebrations
Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 46d
Guys, hear me out: singing telegram.
sudochown@programming.dev · 21 pts · 47d
We are SO sorry….we have someone who is going to come to talk to you about something
*Billing specialist enters room to explain the payment plans available
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 18 pts · 47d
The doctors don't do that it's the responsibility of their employer.
OldChicoAle@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 47d
"Sorry I don't make the prices, I just benefit from them"
Not saying doctors don't deserve a good wage, but they are absolutely aware of the unfair healthcare system in the United States. Could they band together and advocate for change? Yes, and some do. Should more? Probably. Do a lot of doctors not care cuz they're rich anyway? Probably.
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 2 pts · 45d
Some insightful comments on this topic made by @TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today earlier:
https://lemmy.world/comment/24503980
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
They really don't, though. Doctors' pay is just as stagnant as everyone else's.
shawn1122@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 46d
This varies a lot by specialty but many doctors would like to see less patients and would be open to be paid less to do so, so that they can take more time on each case.
There was a time (boomer era) where doctors owned practices and had meaningful leverage in the system. Now all of those practices have been bought out by private equity. Most doctors are employees and if they band together in any way the hospital administration has tools to stamp it out because this is America.
I've worked at several instiutions in the US where either doctors or nurses sought to unionize and through that effort institute safer patient care practices. The hospital administration stamped it out in every case. Even just the optics is challenging because if you make the suggestion of a strike they will run to the media and insinuate you're betraying your oath and putting patients in danger. Many people are guilted out of participating.
There are somewhat successful unions in the country but if you're in a region where there isn't one, having a grassroots one succeed is very difficult.
Perhaps the most influential and lucrative specialties (neurosurgery, interventional cardiology, orthopedics) could move the needle if they didn't have to spend all their time working but everyone else who isn't an MBA administrator has unfortunately become a replacable cog in the system. This is the nature of American capitalism. It enshittifies everything.
zackhow@programming.dev · 18 pts · 47d
It’s interesting that the fourth panel is not just a copy/paste paste of the third with adjustments. They drew it. Neat
Atropos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 47d
I appreciate actual art so much these days. The effort really does matter
irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 15 pts · 47d
The actual doctors are only getting a fraction of that.
cecinestpasunecommunication@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 46d
0li0li@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 47d
A joke that basically just works on Americans... joke's on them one might say.
systemglitch@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 47d
Things that never happen in Canada.
JimVanDeventer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 47d
“I’m so sorry for your loss… of your vehicle because your parking expired and your car was towed”.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 47d
They do if you’re a non-resident without insurance!
xav@programming.dev · 2 pts · 47d
In dunno. At least in France I witnessed an Australian badly injured from a wingsuit accident spend some months in intensive healthcare (in coma). His family was very worried by the incoming bill, because he was not a French resident. The doctors basically said (I was the one translating) : we're there to save a life. Don't worry, when he's OK you'll all go back to Australia, then we'll send you a (enormous) bill. If your insurance doesn't want to pay, do what you want with it.
I felt great about my country this day.
systemglitch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 41d
Not true.
Jiral@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 47d
It must be great to have all that freedom, like the freedom from having universal health insurance:
MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 46d
Before the pic loaded in, I continued the NIN lyric "and no one cares"
Turns out I was kinda correct
Murse@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 47d
Iirc there was a Simpsons or South Park or something - doc hands the dad an insane bill for a broken leg, the dad reads it and proceeds to have a heart attack. Doc: "ooh, sorry to do this, but that'll actually add another $25k"
slacktoid@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 47d
Oh what are they gonna do not give him his son back?
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 47d
Just get Dr. Kyle to do it.
Phantaloons@piefed.zip · 0 pts · 46d
hypothetically speaking
If this was someone's parent... would they also be on the hook or could they just roll a MY NAME?.. IS GYOUBU MASATAKA ONIWA!!!
lechekaflan@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 47d
There are supposed professionals who care only about the money and nothing less. In any country.
Where I am, the Philippines is one of the top exporters of professional labor -- including medical -- and often they don't come back because of low wages regardless of the job... unless the individual is amoral and capable of cunning; politicians, certain bureaucrats, high-ranking police and military officers, and their oligarch friends are just on top of the food chain.
xav@programming.dev · 2 pts · 47d
Nope. In most of EU they only care about saving lives (see my other comment).
snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works · -5 pts · 47d
The answer is zero, he doesn't owe them anything. That's how healthcare works.
generic_computers@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 47d
I'm sorry, this is America.
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · -18 pts · 46d
So is the argument that doctors and medical staff should be unpaid if the patient dies? Or maybe the government pays the fees if the patient dies?
rapchee@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 46d
the second one, like in the rest of the world
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 46d
Pretty sure the civilized world has the government pay whether or not the patient dies.
Most places don't see sick people as walking sacks of money like we do here in the trash state of Murica
otter@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 44d
I'd like to add on this bit that people often miss:
That is why the American system is much more expensive and much less efficient with the money. Since Canada's system is still partially private and it never got fully actualized to the original vision (in part because of lobbying from the US), we have some of those inefficiencies too.
Now the thing is, a large segment of the working US population would not be able to afford healthcare because of these parasitic layers. The US government needs to enter this system to keep it afloat, but they have to pay the much higher costs.
So for an American, not only do their taxes ALSO go towards healthcare, but the US spends far more per capita on it. It changes year to year, but double the spending is what I've usually heard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States
Cut out the parasitic layers. The savvy businessmen among them can find some other industry to make a profit from.
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · -12 pts · 46d
So just indirect payment via taxes then. So the bill still comes due.
rapchee@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 46d
as if that was a bad thing? do you understand that's how insurance is supposed to work? spread the cost, so nobody had to pay much, but in the relatively rare cases when care is needed, they can get it. but in for profit insurance it's so that investors make money
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · -4 pts · 46d
Never said anything about anything being bad. No matter how the pay comes I still like a government agency setting a maximum on the cost of treatments and medical items. Even in a no insurance pure open market or in a completely socialized medicine state there's no need for a hospital to have profits greater than a grocery store aka above 1% to 3%. Although profits in a socialized medicine state aren't quite the same since the buyer and seller are the same entity, but doesn't stop products or services being purchased at X and sold at Y on the books.
Smoogs@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 46d
you clearly dont understand how taxes work. and no doubt how tarrifs work.
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 46d
Government collects taxes, government pays for socialized medicine with taxes along with other things. Maybe government sets up a sovereign wealth fund with taxes and that fund does well which also helps pay for social care programs.
Smoogs@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 46d
googling again i see
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 46d
I mean I guess at some time in the past. I watched a pretty in depth video on Norway's sovereign wealth fund last year I kinda remember. Generally the concept of a government and taxes isn't too complex and is taught in school.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
Are you trolling, or are you genuinely that stupid?
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 45d
cant it be both?
FistingEnthusiast@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
Good point
luciferofastora@feddit.org · 1 pts · 45d
But it's not slapped in the parents' face right after they lost a loved one. "You're never going to see your son grow up, cry at his wedding or have beers with his husband, but chin up: this bill is still cheaper than college."