I know someone with a 50s fridge, the inside is a giant lazy susan, very cool and unique. But yeah we did some back-of-envelope math, and it uses about 20x as much energy as my modern fridge.
The worse energy efficiency is annoying, but the added cost of electricity is absolutely nothing compared to the cost of buying a new fridge every 5 years.
The uneven airflow/cooling is manageable, since it's usually fairly minor.
As for the CFCs, that only matters if it leaks, and the fridge wouldn't have lasted 50 years if it leaked.
If the 20x is correct, you may be talking about the difference between $50/year and $1,000/year to operate it, so after five years you could buy quite a nice new fridge with the savings.
I live in a really cold climate with electric baseboard heating (it's dumb. I didn't build the place I rent) so an inefficient fridge or freezer just takes money out of my heating bill and puts it into my keep-food-from-rotting bill
I mean yeah if money is literally the only factor. Some people worry what would happen if every household chucks a fucking fridge in the landfill every 5 years.
Far from it. As a technician there are way more service calls on newer appliances and much shorter life cycles for them. Certain fairly universal parts are clearly being made at a lower standard now as well. For instance, a very common repair is gas oven ignitors. Many different manufacturers use the exact same style of hot surface ignitors. The ones i see these days burn out in ½ the time or less than they ever used to, even though the design of them hasn't changed one iota.
There is a clear and obvious lack of quality in today's appliances. An old Maytag washer could last 25 years with minimal repairs/maintenance. A newer Maytag doing the same work over the same duration would be lucky to get ½ that mileage before it got shit-canned, though it's likely it would happen even sooner than that. The comparison in design is night and day. The old one was simple, field-tested design made for reliability and relative ease of service...the other is a hodgepodge of electronics and sensors connected by Angel-Hair spaghetti-thin wiring that will have something break in less than 10 years with regular use, and likely less than 5 with heavy use. Sure, a few of the old Maytag's didn't go the distance and a few of the newer ones managed to squeak out more mileage than expected...but anyone with real experience with those 2 machines would take the old one over the new one every single time. It's almost unfair to compare an old Maytag washer to a new one because the most important metric is reliability and there's simply no comparison there.
Do people genuinely think modern tech is that durable/reliable?
I do have a modern fridge that keeps going and going. Old fridges do have an issue, too: they are much less energy efficient and have a massive impact on your electricity bill.
I have a modern fridge which is about 15 years old now. Simple digital control, multi zone temperature control, no radiator on the back, stainless steel. It was very expensive at the time but it keeps going and hasn't required any maintenance other than occasionally cleaning the inside.
The fridge I had before this one was a cheap Beko and lasted less than two years.
Most of the ones like that vent the heat primarily through an area that can be effectively cleaned and has significantly better airflow. So the back radiator is larger but it's effectively never cleaned and the air exchange volume is the gap between the back of the fridge and the wall.
Venting out the bottom allows exchange with the rest of the room, but does require more work to ensure the air actually flows. Additionally, you can clean the vent with a vacuum, and it's a lot more likely that will actually happen than someone pulls the fridge forward and wipes the coils with a damp but not wet cloth.
I know a few people with Samsungs that have had the fridge replaced twice under warranty due to several issues. I don't think Samsung is a good fridge company.
Samsung appliances are fucking trash. When we bought our house it came with a Samsung washer and dryer. I was constantly repairing the stupid dryer, and the washer coin trap would drain directly into the pedestal anytime I tried to clean it. we sold them a month ago and bought a new set from a different manufacturer.
You're being overly charitable. I think Samsung knows exactly what they're doing and has deliberate planned obsolescence down to a science. If anything, your anecdotes are the outliers because for most people, they fail just barely outside warranty, by design.
Source: I owned a Samsung washer where the main bracket supporting the drum was very clearly also the sacrificial anode.
don't get fridges with in-door ice cube makers or in-door water dispensers or other complex features
if you have in-door water or ice, clean those systems every few weeks. they get disgusting and unsanitary very quickly
don't get samsung appliances, especially not with complex features
chinese appliances can be very hit and miss
(america) don't get kenmore appliances
sometimes a higher price / better brand really is better overall
top mount or bottom mount freezer are most reliable
check local consumer reports ratings (not always compatible with technician's uncerstanding of fridges but usually a great starting point - if you have the means then ask a local independent technician for their appliances of choice)
keep a bit of space inside the fridge near the walls
keep space behind and next to the fridge for the compressor to function properly (see manual)
proper compressor/condenser maintenance like cleaning of the coils can add more years to the life of a fridge and make them perform better
if you don't have it, get a surge protector
if you need an independent freezer, get a chest style freezer
video from an american technician comparing fridges and giving tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n76TXuDcok
his channel is great in general for americans who want to buy appliances
Enshittification is a turd that touches everything on the way down to the shareholder value lands.
Buuuut this is the kind of thing that survivorship bias was made for. Were things made to last 60 years ago? Not so sure about that, material quality and engineering have come a long way, though so has systematic greed.
For all the stories there are of old appliances weathering the storm of age, you don't hear about the ones that don't. Likewise, we now have more styles, makes, and manufacturers, which makes more room for cheap flashy stuff to hear about when it breaks unexpectedly after a couple years.
I've had both fridges that lasted 20 years, and ones that lasted 2, sometimes its probably just the luck of who they had running the assembly line that day
Tell your friends to actually do a bit of research on expensive purchases. I've helped three relatives replace their fridges with relatively cheap models and five years in they're still running
I mean it changes. Right now I'd look at GE still but I haven't had to look in a few years. No fridges with ice makers because those are just added complexity that is more likely to fail. Definitely not Samsung.
Maytag Commercial or SpeedQueen for washers. I've had zero issues with my Maytag in the 5ish years I've had it.
Dryers have way fewer failure points, so anything simple should be fine. You want knobs and physical buttons, for both washers and dryers the electronic components are the first thing to go and they're expensive to replace.
Five years? Wow, amazing achievement. I only know of a single fridge failing and that was when my dad, in his wisdom, sped up the defrost process with a screwdriver.
I've owned my current fridge, second hand, for 6 years, and judging by the age of the other appliances it's likely about 20 years old. The problem here is that the things which lead to appliances being bought (price, ratings) don't give you a 20 year view on it. You need 20 year warranties or consumer advocacy groups doing longitudinal studies!
My theory is you should only buy basic, barebones appliances. They don't try to do anything fancy and just default to what's been proven to work. Just get a fridge that does cold and nothing else.
I have an airfryer with two knobs: time and temperature. It's all I need and I love it for that. The best feature: no beeps, only satisfying mechanical timer noises and a simple "pling" when it's done
Are there any temp controls for the drawer? Sometimes there are sliders/adjustments for a specific drawer/zone. Otherwise I'd try turning the main control down a bit--might not be a noticeable difference for most of the refrig, while keeping the veggies from freezing.
It's planned obsolesence. They make more money by marketing high tech/luxury stuff and having it break on purpose in a defined amount of time.
I got some Carhartt "worker" jeans, advertized as nice jeans for manual laborers.
I work from home in my home office. The crotch tore in less than 6 months of hard... sitting.
Expensive shit they want you to buy over and over again because they think you're an idiot. I learned to sew, learned to darn my nice wool socks that tore predictably in 6 months, repair and maintain my motorcycle, repair my plumbing, because fuck all this enshittification.
My new MO is to buy your shit once, and either i will say your brand is great or keep wearing my torn/repaired carhartt jeans and keep reminding people never to buy them unless they want to learn how to sew. Fuck these greedy pieces of shit.
our parents but a new LG one recently, and there has been complaints in the reviews that it keeps defrosting or its not cold enough or it dies down the line.
Mine's ~25 years old. It's second hand, so I'm not sure how old. It has worked perfectly from day one. I hate to talk about it, don't want to jinx it.
If it dies, I'll try to repair it. If I can't repair it, I'll look to buy an older used one somewhere.
Really though, I don't like when this sort of thing is publicized, because people who might decide to get rid of an old, perfectly usable fridge to buy a new one will learn that they shouldn't so there won't be as many used ones to choose from, and they'll be more expensive.
With their phased out refrigerants that you can't find anymore and when you call someone to recharge it, they can't and youre stuck with a fridge that no longer works.
My mom bought a new house and is moving in, in a couple weeks. I went over to get internet installed a couple weeks ago and noticed the new fridge was making an awful buzzing sound.
Remember that white goods typically have longer warranties, so don't forget to use it if needed! After I convinced my parents to do it, the tech said it was a design issue and ended up replacing the heater with a larger one (I didn't even know they had them.)
77 Comments
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 115 pts · 54d
Less energy efficient
Worse airflow, Uneven cooling -> food spoils quicker
May contain CFC's
Fuck old fridges
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 54d
unzips
what?
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 36 pts · 54d
Wrong room, Mr Vance
turtlesareneat@piefed.ca · 31 pts · 53d
I know someone with a 50s fridge, the inside is a giant lazy susan, very cool and unique. But yeah we did some back-of-envelope math, and it uses about 20x as much energy as my modern fridge.
Jolteon@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 53d
The worse energy efficiency is annoying, but the added cost of electricity is absolutely nothing compared to the cost of buying a new fridge every 5 years.
The uneven airflow/cooling is manageable, since it's usually fairly minor.
As for the CFCs, that only matters if it leaks, and the fridge wouldn't have lasted 50 years if it leaked.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 52d
"It hasn't leaked yet so it won't leak" is a hell of a take.
lovely_reader@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 52d
If the 20x is correct, you may be talking about the difference between $50/year and $1,000/year to operate it, so after five years you could buy quite a nice new fridge with the savings.
iocase@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 52d
I live in a really cold climate with electric baseboard heating (it's dumb. I didn't build the place I rent) so an inefficient fridge or freezer just takes money out of my heating bill and puts it into my keep-food-from-rotting bill
ContactClosure@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 52d
I mean yeah if money is literally the only factor. Some people worry what would happen if every household chucks a fucking fridge in the landfill every 5 years.
iocase@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 52d
And then there's LG which is very concerned about people not throwing an entire fridge into the landfill in as short a time frame as possible
ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 53d
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 69 pts · 54d
Survivorship bias
frunch@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 53d
Far from it. As a technician there are way more service calls on newer appliances and much shorter life cycles for them. Certain fairly universal parts are clearly being made at a lower standard now as well. For instance, a very common repair is gas oven ignitors. Many different manufacturers use the exact same style of hot surface ignitors. The ones i see these days burn out in ½ the time or less than they ever used to, even though the design of them hasn't changed one iota.
There is a clear and obvious lack of quality in today's appliances. An old Maytag washer could last 25 years with minimal repairs/maintenance. A newer Maytag doing the same work over the same duration would be lucky to get ½ that mileage before it got shit-canned, though it's likely it would happen even sooner than that. The comparison in design is night and day. The old one was simple, field-tested design made for reliability and relative ease of service...the other is a hodgepodge of electronics and sensors connected by Angel-Hair spaghetti-thin wiring that will have something break in less than 10 years with regular use, and likely less than 5 with heavy use. Sure, a few of the old Maytag's didn't go the distance and a few of the newer ones managed to squeak out more mileage than expected...but anyone with real experience with those 2 machines would take the old one over the new one every single time. It's almost unfair to compare an old Maytag washer to a new one because the most important metric is reliability and there's simply no comparison there.
Do people genuinely think modern tech is that durable/reliable?
jdr@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 53d
I'd consider spaghetti-diameter wires pretty thick
frunch@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 53d
If you say so. We never used to have to replace a wiring harness on a washer, but I'm not a wire expert so i suppose i could be wrong
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 53d
You'd pick a maytag washer from the 40s or 50s?
frunch@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 53d
The 70s/80s is the sweet spot
CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de · 42 pts · 53d
I do have a modern fridge that keeps going and going. Old fridges do have an issue, too: they are much less energy efficient and have a massive impact on your electricity bill.
Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 53d
I have a modern fridge which is about 15 years old now. Simple digital control, multi zone temperature control, no radiator on the back, stainless steel. It was very expensive at the time but it keeps going and hasn't required any maintenance other than occasionally cleaning the inside.
The fridge I had before this one was a cheap Beko and lasted less than two years.
jdr@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 53d
If there's no radiator on the back then where does the heat go?
spazzman6156@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 53d
A lot of modern fridges channel the heat out the front of the bottom. I think it's so you can fit it into tighter spaces.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 52d
In my case heat dissipates through the sides
Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 53d
The back, top, bottom and sides all get hot. So you're right in that it's radiating the heat, it just does use the typical radiator on the rear.
lovely_reader@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 52d
What's the advantage? It sounds like you'd need significant air clearance all around (including in back) instead of just the back?
ricecake@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 52d
Most of the ones like that vent the heat primarily through an area that can be effectively cleaned and has significantly better airflow. So the back radiator is larger but it's effectively never cleaned and the air exchange volume is the gap between the back of the fridge and the wall.
Venting out the bottom allows exchange with the rest of the room, but does require more work to ensure the air actually flows. Additionally, you can clean the vent with a vacuum, and it's a lot more likely that will actually happen than someone pulls the fridge forward and wipes the coils with a damp but not wet cloth.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 1 pts · 52d
I would imagine not having to clean the radiators.
Those things are a bitch to clean, and they get disgusting quick
ThatGuy46475@lemmy.world · 37 pts · 54d
Tell your friends to stop buying from Samsung
joelfromaus@aussie.zone · 26 pts · 54d
Jokes on you, I bought my fridge from LG.
Unrelated, but does anyone know how to stop my A/C from beeping out morse code adverts for McAfee?
Thorry@feddit.org · 9 pts · 54d
My girlfriend has a Samsung fridge, going strong for around 12 years now. It's absolutely fine.
All brands are going to have duds and winners, that's just the way it is.
Surp@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 54d
I know a few people with Samsungs that have had the fridge replaced twice under warranty due to several issues. I don't think Samsung is a good fridge company.
runner_g@piefed.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 54d
Samsung appliances are fucking trash. When we bought our house it came with a Samsung washer and dryer. I was constantly repairing the stupid dryer, and the washer coin trap would drain directly into the pedestal anytime I tried to clean it. we sold them a month ago and bought a new set from a different manufacturer.
Alexstarfire@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 54d
Why would a washer in a house have a coin trap?
snooggums@piefed.world · 3 pts · 53d
It isn't for coin operation, it is for catching small stuff that falls out during the wash like coins from pockets.
Alexstarfire@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 53d
A lint trap?
snooggums@piefed.world · 1 pts · 53d
No, a coin trap.
https://fredsappliance.com/washer-repair/how-to-check-the-coin-trap-in-your-washer/
grue@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 54d
You're being overly charitable. I think Samsung knows exactly what they're doing and has deliberate planned obsolescence down to a science. If anything, your anecdotes are the outliers because for most people, they fail just barely outside warranty, by design.
Source: I owned a Samsung washer where the main bracket supporting the drum was very clearly also the sacrificial anode.
baguettefish@discuss.tchncs.de · 24 pts · 54d
video from an american technician comparing fridges and giving tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n76TXuDcok his channel is great in general for americans who want to buy appliances
Tyrq@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 54d
Enshittification is a turd that touches everything on the way down to the shareholder value lands.
Buuuut this is the kind of thing that survivorship bias was made for. Were things made to last 60 years ago? Not so sure about that, material quality and engineering have come a long way, though so has systematic greed.
For all the stories there are of old appliances weathering the storm of age, you don't hear about the ones that don't. Likewise, we now have more styles, makes, and manufacturers, which makes more room for cheap flashy stuff to hear about when it breaks unexpectedly after a couple years.
I've had both fridges that lasted 20 years, and ones that lasted 2, sometimes its probably just the luck of who they had running the assembly line that day
vaionko@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 53d
Also, expensice appliances still last. It's just that back in the day expensive was the only option.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 52d
It was also that old appliances were expensive at the time.
If you buy a fridge for 3000€ today, it will also last you a very long time.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 0 pts · 52d
Except the 3,000 £ Fridge is just the 600£ fridge with Wifi, a tablet, a camera and AI. No higher quality materials
walden@wetshav.ing · 1 pts · 52d
That's not necessarily true.
myotheraccount@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 53d
It doesn't matter how old it is - any fridge needs refilling
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 52d
Nah. My dad has like 50y old russian fridge bought by the grandpa in the Soviet union times and it still works.
mushroommunk@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 54d
Tell your friends to actually do a bit of research on expensive purchases. I've helped three relatives replace their fridges with relatively cheap models and five years in they're still running
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 54d
Well don't tell us which brands or anything.
mushroommunk@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 54d
I mean it changes. Right now I'd look at GE still but I haven't had to look in a few years. No fridges with ice makers because those are just added complexity that is more likely to fail. Definitely not Samsung.
Armand1@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 54d
I bought a Hisense fridge and Hisense washer dryer a little under 5 years ago and they've been working flawlessly ever since.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 54d
No laundry appliances for the US :(
agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 54d
Maytag Commercial or SpeedQueen for washers. I've had zero issues with my Maytag in the 5ish years I've had it.
Dryers have way fewer failure points, so anything simple should be fine. You want knobs and physical buttons, for both washers and dryers the electronic components are the first thing to go and they're expensive to replace.
FishFace@piefed.social · 1 pts · 53d
Five years? Wow, amazing achievement. I only know of a single fridge failing and that was when my dad, in his wisdom, sped up the defrost process with a screwdriver.
I've owned my current fridge, second hand, for 6 years, and judging by the age of the other appliances it's likely about 20 years old. The problem here is that the things which lead to appliances being bought (price, ratings) don't give you a 20 year view on it. You need 20 year warranties or consumer advocacy groups doing longitudinal studies!
Hazel@piefed.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 53d
My theory is you should only buy basic, barebones appliances. They don't try to do anything fancy and just default to what's been proven to work. Just get a fridge that does cold and nothing else.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 53d
but then people will think you are poor.
PhoenixDog@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 53d
Hate to break it to you... Almost everyone is poor now.
Kratzkopf@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 53d
Or sensible
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 53d
that's another word for poor.
you are German? You wouldn't understand, in USA there is no such thing as sensible, there is poor, or successful.
frunch@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 53d
That's what i tell my customers. The best advice is to keep it simple. Even then there's still loads of awful choices out there
grandma@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 52d
I have an airfryer with two knobs: time and temperature. It's all I need and I love it for that. The best feature: no beeps, only satisfying mechanical timer noises and a simple "pling" when it's done
Hazel@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 52d
I have a microwave like that, not even a display, just two twisty knobs without any beeps. And it was only like 55 euros :)
dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de · 6 pts · 54d
I have a decades old fridge that literally freezes my veggie drawer every two weeks. I‘m so close to throwing it out.
frunch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 53d
Are there any temp controls for the drawer? Sometimes there are sliders/adjustments for a specific drawer/zone. Otherwise I'd try turning the main control down a bit--might not be a noticeable difference for most of the refrig, while keeping the veggies from freezing.
deft@lemmy.wtf · 5 pts · 54d
Parents had a fridge from the 70s that lived until 2006. Gone through 6 fridges since
What the fuck is going on
terranoid@lemmy.cafe · 7 pts · 54d
It's planned obsolesence. They make more money by marketing high tech/luxury stuff and having it break on purpose in a defined amount of time.
I got some Carhartt "worker" jeans, advertized as nice jeans for manual laborers.
I work from home in my home office. The crotch tore in less than 6 months of hard... sitting.
Expensive shit they want you to buy over and over again because they think you're an idiot. I learned to sew, learned to darn my nice wool socks that tore predictably in 6 months, repair and maintain my motorcycle, repair my plumbing, because fuck all this enshittification.
My new MO is to buy your shit once, and either i will say your brand is great or keep wearing my torn/repaired carhartt jeans and keep reminding people never to buy them unless they want to learn how to sew. Fuck these greedy pieces of shit.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 53d
not even planned obselence, make the components so cheaply made, it randomly breaks and you have to buy a new one anyways.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 53d
our parents but a new LG one recently, and there has been complaints in the reviews that it keeps defrosting or its not cold enough or it dies down the line.
curiousaur@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 54d
Buy the right machines. Buy for repairability.
FluidBeef@quokk.au · 5 pts · 54d
My gran had a pantry instead of a fridge. Checkmate technocrats.
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 54d
Mmmm, day-old liquid ice cream... 🤤
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 54d
It's a sad fact of society that there are no great rock ballads about refrigerators.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 52d
Mine's ~25 years old. It's second hand, so I'm not sure how old. It has worked perfectly from day one. I hate to talk about it, don't want to jinx it.
If it dies, I'll try to repair it. If I can't repair it, I'll look to buy an older used one somewhere.
Really though, I don't like when this sort of thing is publicized, because people who might decide to get rid of an old, perfectly usable fridge to buy a new one will learn that they shouldn't so there won't be as many used ones to choose from, and they'll be more expensive.
quiteopposite@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 52d
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 53d
the new ones are buggy and defective.
Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 52d
With their phased out refrigerants that you can't find anymore and when you call someone to recharge it, they can't and youre stuck with a fridge that no longer works.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 54d
AI memes?
hardcoreufo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 52d
My mom bought a new house and is moving in, in a couple weeks. I went over to get internet installed a couple weeks ago and noticed the new fridge was making an awful buzzing sound.
purplemonkeymad@programming.dev · 1 pts · 53d
Remember that white goods typically have longer warranties, so don't forget to use it if needed! After I convinced my parents to do it, the tech said it was a design issue and ended up replacing the heater with a larger one (I didn't even know they had them.)
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 52d
The fridge was designed to survive the third world war.
sirico@feddit.uk · 0 pts · 53d
Old things go out of spec more often but in a gradual way, new just breaks once the 0's and 1's don't flow as expected