There’s a lot of confusion about what democratic socialists want, and that’s fair. Even within our group, there are differences among us.

425 points · 93 comments · view on lemmy.world

93 Comments

HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world · 80 pts · 10d (7 replies)

Why do Republicans insist on making DSA sound so fucking cool?

_stranger_@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 10d

I came into the comments to see if this was satire. That's a fucking great ad for DSA.

chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 10d (1 reply)

"The children these days are still afraid of the communism, yeah? Just paint them as commies, that'll solve 'em."

rayyy@piefed.social · 5 pts · 10d

The majority of people are afraid of things they are told to be afraid of. Education dispels the fear. That's why the GOP loves the poorly educated.

thecaptaintrout@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 10d

Saw an attack ad against Abdul here in MI yesterday, that honestly made me want to vote even more for him by pointing out how 'dangerous' he is to establishment.

jimmy90@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 9d (1 reply)

lol there's been a couple of great interviews with the leaders of the DSA attempting to explain their policies

"oh no we don't mean that we mean, err something, err, whatever i can make up right now"

at least try to make the policies on your website make some sense so your people don't look like clowns when asked about them

HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 9d

I think DSA spokespersons candidates like Mamdani have actually done a wonderful job at explaining their policies, idk what you're on about.

jimmy90@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 10d

ah yes let's just look at that record of socialist wins when they're not masquerading as regular dems

oh is a big fat zero

that's the real threat of a good time we're looking forward to

dephyre@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 10d

Don't threaten me with a good time.

BassTurd@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 10d (3 replies)

Even for people that think that they are against democratic socialism, there's no way they read this and think that's a bad thing. This reads like something that's used to promote DSA rather than fear monger. It's out of character for Republicans to slander something so softly without any sort of hate rhetoric or other blasphemy.

Really, who can read this and say, yea, I want the power to stay with the wealthy and not be with the people other than wealthy people? I would have guessed this were satire if I just saw it in passing.

LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 10d (1 reply)

Maybe they're actually trying to boost it because they think it will create a civil war among democrats? The same way dems boosted Trump over previous conservatives.

AgentSeven@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 10d

Oh man, I hope they do the hell out of this.

schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 10d

Feel free to listen to their Fox News attacks on AOC. Their audience has been trained to automatically hate her and anything she does, so they can present her platform straightforwardly and without fear of losing their audience.

Hassan Piker is another guy that often gets criti-praised.

DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 11d (3 replies)

The details are academic unless we can get them in power. One step at a time. We all need to pull together.

DagwoodIII@piefed.social · -7 pts · 11d (2 replies)

I have no idea why they just don't call themselves 'FDR Democrats.'

If you use the term 'Socialist' you give the GOP an easy way to attack. "Socialist? You mean like North Korea?"

darthelmet@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 10d

Because it doesn't matter. They'll just call you commies anyway. They even call neolibs commies. Words don't mean anything to these people and the goal is the same regardless of what you call it. They don't want us taking their power away from them. They'll do whatever they need to do to stop that.

kabe@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 10d

First off, FDR's New Deal was notorious for excluding non-white folks, and even gave rise to the racist practice of redlining. As such, this name would be a total non-starter in DSA circles.

But yes, I have also wondered whether a different name would be better at attracting new adherents to the cause. My thought was perhaps 'Social Democrats', since 1) most DSA electeds platform on soc dem policies, and 2) it would avoid the scary 's' word altogether.

However, I raised this in an online discussion with a DSA member the other day and he said that social democracy is basically the foundation that the future transition to socialism builds off from. So it wouldn't make sense to call themselves something else because a socialist replacement of capitalism through democratic means remains their ultimate goal.

slingstone@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 10d

"...replace capitalism with democratic socialism..."

Don't threaten me with a good time.

starik@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 10d (4 replies)

Anyone thinking this is real (“dOnt TheaTeN mE wiTh a gOOd tIMe”, “They’re trying to scaremonger”) is a fucking moron. Republicans are evil and often stupid, but not stupid enough to word an ad like that. They’re well aware that “corporations and wealthy owners” has a negative connotation and “workers and the public” has a positive one. Please be more skeptical.

BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 9d

Yeah it's highly satirical, but I don't doubt some of MAGA will think it legit. How they react though...

Tilgare@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d (2 replies)

You heard Mike Johnson campaigning for the DSA in front of the whole country, right? Using scary Boogeyman language to describe perfectly reasonable and honorable things?

starik@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 8d (1 reply)

No, I didn’t hear that. Did he try to spin it in his favor with his word choice? Because that would be the opposite of what this post is doing.

Tilgare@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 8d

No, he literally spelled out their platform, eXcEpT HE juSt pREtenDeD iT sOUnDEd sPpPpooOoOooOOky!

https://youtube.com/shorts/6D8qZaOwH3k

daychilde@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 10d

Well, here's my take: I don't know for 100% sure exactly what the US looks like if all the DSA goals are met. But I know what it looks like now, and I know that at least MOST of what they're proposing sounds pretty damned useful.

If DSA can win, I suspect some of the more fringe stuff might not make it as-is. But the things most people actually support - wealth equality, social safety nets, universal healthcare, livable wages and mayve even universal income..... we can agree on enough basics that I feel confident we can work out the rest.

humblearrogant@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 10d (1 reply)

Yes

OldChicoAle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 10d

Yes! Yes! A million times yes!

uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 10d

Tineye only reveals a couple of hits on imagur. This isn't an official image coming from the Republican party, but a mock-up done privately.

Snapz@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 10d

Yes, but message is too stuffy. Just say,

"Billionaires, who are predators, stole the world. They made life terrible for everyone without a private jet and now we want to take it back for all of you, because we are also you."

mrsilkworm@piefed.social · 10 pts · 10d

If this is real, then its the best advertisement the DSA could have

LadyMeow@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 11d (2 replies)

Why is there a republican logo on this?

blackbelt352@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 10d

Theyre trying to fearmonger. Badly but theyre trying to.

skisnow@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 9d

because it's an obvious fake

VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 10d

I know a lot of conservatives because I work at a national company and have to deal with these cucks. But this message would absolutely align with them and make them pro Democratic socialists.

They aren't friends with billionaires. They're complaining about gas prices and food prices like all of us. They are sick of our taxes going to war.

cAUzapNEAGLb@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 11d (2 replies)

Why is this image stamped by a republican party?

A party is not a unity, it is an amalagamation of people aligned under a set of common goals

The less common goals there area the bigger the tent and the higher probability of those common goals passing, but also a higher probability of group discord as more and more diverse ideas find polarizing and unresolving counterparts within the tent

It is party leadership, and thus the people already within the tent, to carefully determine which goals to propose, because too few or narrow goals and the niche is too small to find majority support, but if the goals are too many or too broad then the group can become too big and rip itself apart like an overblown balloon

So, its a fine balance of making goals wide enough to capture enough to get them acheived, but not so much that it stalls or pops

Its up to the individual to look at a party's goals and their own goals and determine if they can tolerate being under that tent or not .

I think under the current election system, all individual voters are having to tolerate so much to receive so little - i dont know if there is any person who truly feels seen and represented by their state and federal elections - i hope at least a few are in city and county elections

could be better, i think a lot about liquid democracy and consent based voting

blackbelt352@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 10d

They're trying to fear monger. They have their constituents trained to short circuit and hate anything they label as communist/socialist. Its like that Fox News screenshot with all the barely centrist very normal stuff that "lEfTiStS" want to do.

CMDR_Horn@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 11d

Looks like a news letter from comal county Texas Republican HQ. Most likely to fear monger their base

boaratio@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 10d

Yes. This is what I want.

sepi@piefed.social · 5 pts · 10d

You threatening me with a good time?

BadmanDan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 9d

The DSA dosent even know what it wants? They’re literally campaigning and endorse capitalist who owns rental rental properties, but won’t endorse actual socialist.

protist@retrofed.com · 3 pts · 10d (9 replies)

I may get downvoted to hell for this, but I don't think it's a good idea for candidates to keep identifying as Democratic Socialists. Why not focus on the actual issues you support rather than this label?

As far as issues are concerned, I'd be interested to see how, for example, James Talarico stands up next to someone identifying as DSA. Talarico's positions seem right in line, but he's not directly associating himself at all with the term socialism. As much as I don't want it to be the case, the word socialism has been poisoned for a large segment of American society after decades of propaganda

yogurt@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 10d (3 replies)

DSA can exist in the form it does because there are no qualifications to be a Democrat, Trump can call himself a Democrat and run in the primary if he wants. Democrats are full of people who "support issues" and then won't do shit if you vote for them.

That's not how DSA works, you can't just identify as DSA, it's an organization with actual discipline and membership criteria. Zohran Mamdani had to do job interviews with a DSA committee to see if he'd be a good mayor before he could be a DSA candidate. And if he starts sucking the DSA can and has kicked politicians out. So for example Graham Planter: positions maybe seemed right, not DSA, wouldn't have gotten through the DSA process. It's a quality control label that's actually backed up by something.

protist@retrofed.com · 0 pts · 10d (2 replies)

That's good info. Maybe they should rebrand themselves. Leftists suck at branding, but branding is vital to winning elections

Yaky@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 9d (1 reply)

Several states have Working Families Party. IMO a better name, no mention of socialism (even though they usually endorse progressive or socialist candidates) and in some states (e.g. New York) they are legally a party, so they get their own column in the ballot on state and local level (alongside Democratic and Republican parties). DSA is not legally a party afaik.

yogurt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d

When WFP is legally the same as Democrats they have the same quality control problem but worse, random MAGA guys can show up with $10k and pay somebody to collect enough signatures to legally make themselves the Working Families candidate without the party knowing it's happening until it's too late.

uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 10d

libs and liberals are slurs for the same demographics that communism and socialism are.

They already believe if you fail to vote R, you're effeminate and a traitor to the US.

And every day FOX News pumps them full of fear and hate and teaches them crime is not what you did, but who you are and what you think.

So how the heck do you think we're going to reach them by shifting to left-wing dog whistles?

sanitation@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 10d (2 replies)

poisoned for a large segment of American society after decades of propaganda

yeah but its not working anymore. that was back in the days when information access was fully controlled by state. now with internet and thousands of talking heads its not possible to control it like that

thecaptaintrout@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 10d

It's changing for certain, but there is still a trained negative response in many Americans.

From my perspective, its not as strong, especially among younger people, but it's still there.

chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 10d

The Internet was a tool for the democratization of information. But with the centralization of platforms, targeted media, and billionaires taking over social media, the Internet is quickly becoming the problem. Propaganda is now personalized and refined to be as effective as possible for each individual.

WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 10d

I think Democratic Socialists should identify as the "Make your children trans, and Satanize them" party, just to fuck with them.

mufkin@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 9d

It’s pretty clear that they, whom ever that might be, is already trying to split the democratic vote. Stay focused my people.

StinkySocialist@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 5d

Replace capitalism is misleading tbh

Don't get me wrong I want them to win. I'd rather have them over Republicans or establishment Dems but these guys don't want to get rid of capitalism they just want to regulate it and build a stronger welfare state on top.

OccamsRazer@lemmy.world · -15 pts · 11d (33 replies)

Tbh a ton of people across the political spectrum agree with that statement. Unfortunately the only tool dsa seems to bring is price controls, basically trading corporations for a completely inept and unaccountable government body. It's a short term solution with populists blundering around implementing controls over stuff they don't understand. Why would we trust these politicians to make economic decisions that have huge impact, despite a complete lack of qualifications?

compostgoblin@piefed.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 10d (1 reply)

If you think the only tool the DSA brings is price controls, I invite you to read their platform

OccamsRazer@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 10d

Fair enough, I guess that's just the one i hear about, and it's obvious to me that it will fail. Maybe other policies are legit.

blackbelt352@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 10d (28 replies)

Its working pretty good for Mamdani.

OccamsRazer@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 10d (27 replies)

He got a degree in Africana studies. I'm sure you understand being skeptical of his knowledge on economics... his policies are popular, but that's not at all the same as being good in the long term. I guess time will tell.

daychilde@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 10d (26 replies)

He got a degree in Africana studies.

Do you realize how racist that makes you sound?

OccamsRazer@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 10d (25 replies)

If you intentionally misunderstood my point in order to make it about race, that's on you.

blackbelt352@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d (24 replies)

Then what was the point of bringing up the Africana studies?

OccamsRazer@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 9d (23 replies)

It's his degree and it has nothing to do with economics. My point is that he has no formal education in economics.

blackbelt352@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 9d

Ok and? Most lawyers dont have degrees in economics and yet congress is overwhelmingly made up of lawyers. But you're not crying about congress being woefully lacking in economics degrees.

redparadise@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 10d (1 reply)

Yes... completely unelected undemocratic, actually non-transparent and greedy/profit seeking by design private companies will certainly be more effective, the government totally can't hire their skilled folk.

OccamsRazer@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 10d

One of those is accountable to the actual value of goods, and the other is not.

SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · -19 pts · 10d (7 replies)

Yeah and that's a really big problem. There's no cohesive plan for anything. Mostly the polices are just vague "socialism and stuff" and a hatred of Jews. Some DSAs hate just the Jews in Israel and others hate all Jews.

Everyone in the DSA seems to look the other way about antisemitism because they've been given the permission structure to consider any hateful comments about Jews to be "criticizing Israel" even when it's about Jews in their community that have never set foot in Israel. If anyone in the DSA calls out the antisemitism they know they will be harassed by the hatemongers within the group. Seems the common thread in the group, denial of antisemitism.

The DSA is to Democrats as MAGA is to Republicans. A group that's all about grievances and racist dog whistles that is trying to take over a mainstream political party to force their will onto others. But just like MAGA, there's no real policies, just vague vibes that are centered around "owning" their political enemies. And like MAGA there's a genuine fear of harassment that keeps everyone in the group in line.

Just another brand of fascist in fascist America.

belunos@lemmus.org · 9 pts · 10d (1 reply)

That's a lot to say without backing it up. Got any links?

SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · -5 pts · 10d

I could just link to the site you're currently on. Just read the comments in leftist threads. I've had people tell me they're for genocide of all Jews, and it's the general consensus on leftist lemmy that harrrassing the Jews in their communities is completely fine. Stochastic terrorism is commonplace here.

You just need to google any story posted by leftists and find it on another source to get more information to understand that what gets posted here is propaganda. They leave out any information that's inconvenient to their narrative. They'll say someone got arrested for protesting when they actually get arrested for violent crimes, which they leave out because they want the narrative to be that they're being oppressed peaceful protesters.

The number one target for hate crimes are Jews these days. These hate crimes spike whenever there's activity in the middle east. You will never hear about that in leftist circles. Too inconvenient. So you need to goolge the data on that yourself.

And if you ask a "socialist" about anything to do with public policy, they don't have any cohesive answers. Just vague slogans and repeating whatever wealthy monetized influencers tell them to say.

Just read lemmy, not from the perspective that these are your "allies" but from a more critical perspective. Socialism is just an aesthetic for most people. Put on a Che Guevara T-Shirt in your college dorm and say some slogans about the "workers of the world uniting" despite the fact that the university crowd is not the working class. The actual working class is generally despised by leftists, it's mostly a fantasy where college kids pretend they are the oppressed working class. But that's just half-hearted bullshit they'll grow out of. The real driving force of the present day leftist movement is hatred of Jews and that's what will stick with people for the rest of their lives.

Leftists do everything they can to avoid having any discussion about antisemitism, even when it's painfully obvious to anyone outside their group. They dismiss any claims of antisemitism as an attack originating from... well guess who? So these problems will not be addressed by leftists and the movement will continue to degrade further into becoming a fascist hate movement.

the_q@piefed.social · 2 pts · 10d (4 replies)

You're in the wrong place for this kind of bullshit.

SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca · -5 pts · 10d (3 replies)

Leftistism doesn't stand up to criticism very well does it?

Don't worry I'm sure a mod will come along shortly and delete my post. Censorship is the only response leftism has to criticism and the only thing y'all agree on is that you should the other way on antisemitism. Any mention of the problem leftism has in regards to antisemitism must never be discussed.

kat_angstrom@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 10d (1 reply)

Funny you should mention that. I'm the local mod and your comment is not the kind that I delete, ever. I'm on the "left" and I don't censor. Please don't paint everyone with the same brush. The world is full of people on the left, the right, and everywhere else who much greater nuance in their beliefs than you seem to give credit for.

Also, any chance you can be a bit more kind?

skisnow@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 9d

just had a quick glance through their post history and either SpaceCowboy has an unhealthy level of obsession with fighting "leftists" across all of Lemmy and needs to touch grass, or they're a bot; my money's on the latter.

ieGod@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 9d

Your perception is seriously miscalibrated.