Organizations like the Yakuza, 'Ndrangheta, Cosa Nostra, the Irish Mafia, etc, are part of many countries, to bigger or smaller fashion.
But to someone from those countries, what do you think was the original/historical cause for such organizations to develop?
My country - Portugal - has some degree of presence of these organizations but, to my knowledge, we never developed our domestic version of a crime syndicate. And we are not a bunch of choir boys. Something just kept things from forming. And that intrigues me.
So, what is the understanding of someone from a country where the organizations exist?
65 Comments
yesman@lemmy.world · 78 pts · 6d
In America, we have three kinds of organized crime. Executive, Legislative, and Judicial.
pdxfed@lemmy.world · 53 pts · 6d
*4, Corporate.
neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 6d
He already said America.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
5, naval
username_1@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 6d
In my country all governmental branches belong to one single crime organization.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 5d
That is institutional corruption, not organized crime. The two can touch and even overlap to some degree but are the same.
thethrilloftime69@feddit.online · 1 pts · 4d
That is a semantic difference. And the difference seems to decrease everyday.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 4d
4 if you count police, and they operate as a gang/mafia(thier unions) and they do commit all sorts of crimes.
Denjin@feddit.uk · 69 pts · 6d
Doesn't every country have some degree of organised crime present?
Like they may not have glamorous crime families like the Mafia but wherever there's crime, there's organised crime groups.
zombiebikini@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 6d
I would say yes. I couldn't think of a country without organized crime. It doesn't always have a fancy name and maybe it is very lowkey, but this I'd take as a sign of being well organized.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 5d
Organized crime, in my understanding, implies structure, reach and even some degree of a social facade to clear money and move interests. Not a group of individuals constantly on the crosshairs.
Denjin@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 5d
Yes, exactly...
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 5d
Yes. The answer for everyone is yes.
Jolteon@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 5d
The question they're trying to ask is: In your country, how much of the government does organized crime own?
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 5d
a corruption metric is a different question, and there's a chart for that.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 23 pts · 6d
Is there anywhere in the modern world that doesn't have organized crime? Just because people ain't being arrested for it doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist. It could mean they're not being caught or own the law.
Tiral@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 6d
You're right, it exists everywhere. Just because if isn't Al LCapones everywhere, it exists.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 5d
Organized crime, in my understanding, is not something that collapses with the death of a member or two or through a well placed intervention of authoritites. It has structure by itself, transcends generations, develops its culture, has a public, visible face, either for popular support or fear engineering.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · -1 pts · 6d
Vatican City. (I know, I know "the church counts". Hur-hur, very funny Lemmy)
Maybe a few Pacific island nations, just by virtue of there not being enough people to support it.
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 6d
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/16/1219839096/cardinal-vatican-embezzlement-trial-guilty
Just because it's white-collar doesn't mean it's not organized.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 6d
Wow, okay, I stand corrected. Just embezzlement wouldn't count, but it sounds like there was quite the network doing things elsewhere in cooperation, at least per the prosecutors.
It's pretty weird to imagine that, of people who chose to become priests, there's enough who want to directly extort and scam the Vatican, that they can find each other and start a group.
Also, TIL Vatican City has a jail.
andrewta@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 6d
Organized crime is in basically every single country in the world
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 0 pts · 5d
But do all have homegrown societies? My country, to my knowledge, does not nor has ever had such organizations. We started getting some degree of them when we had a large influx of eastern europe imigrants that were followed by criminal organizations but they don't have enough footing here to become influent.
ieGod@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 4d
You sure? https://ocindex.net/country/portugal
The_v@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 5d
Organized crime is an interesting topic. In my opinion it's existence shows a disconnect of the needs of the people and their government/social structure. Every country has some amount of "organized crime". There is no exception. What does differ is the size, power, and wealth of the criminal syndicate.
The larger and more severe the disconnect between the people's needs and government, the more extensive and structured these criminal organizations become.
For example gangs often form in an regions where opportunity is limited or a group of people are being oppressed. Inner city gangs are a good example of this. They form as a form of protection and a chance for opportunity. These opportunities are usually supplying things that are illegal but still in demand.
If government bans or fails to provide something with a very high demand (like prohibition of alcohol in the U.S. and just about everything in the Soviet Union) the criminal organizations grow in wealth and sophistication.
The only effective way to stop these criminal organizations is fulfill the demand and provide other opportunities for the individuals. For example the U.S. legalized alcohol. This dramatically reduced income to criminal opportunity. Under FDR support structures, fair wages, education, and all sorts of opportunities were created (for whites). The opportunity for individual people through criminal activity declined and most of them left the criminal organizations. In darker skin colored groups where opportunity remained limited, criminal activity remained higher.
Organized crime can be dramatically reduced by providing opportunities to all individuals.
Alternatively a complete collapse and takeover by the criminal organizations like the Soviet Union to Russia is also a option.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 5d
I share this view as well.
20cello@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 6d
I'm from Italy, organised crime flourish where the state doesn't reach. Then they expand, just like corporations, infiltrating the political parties.
Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk · 12 pts · 5d
Everywhere, probably. Here in the UK we have the Wombles. Everyone knows Great Uncle Bulgaria is the leader, but the police do nothing. I don’t think he’s ever been arrested even.
Malica@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 5d
Pretty sure that's every country
IWW4@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 4d
There is no country in the world that does not have organized crime.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 3d
This (OP's) is the kind of sentence youd read from a textbook from 1980.
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 9 pts · 6d
Organized crime exists everywhere. In the places that don't have a stereotyped reputation for it, the organized crime groups are either better at hiding or have more control over the local government and don't get investigated.
For instance, in Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos internet scams are a significant portion of the economy. In Laos the scams revenue represent about 68% of their GDP:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/dec/02/scam-state-multi-billion-dollar-industry-south-east-asia
Local governments have tried to crack down on the scam centers, but the operations are so large that basically everyone in the country is either involved directly, or knows someone personally who is.
The point being, most of the time there isn't a "crime family" like in movies and TV shows. Organized crime is business, and in a lot of places it's business as usual.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 6d
So a lot of people here are going to be very broad and not particular about corruption in the US.
I live in Hawaii, and what most people in the US experience is a more general, liberalized form of corruption; a corruption which is more baked into the process and acceptable. Corruption as law, as process; formalized and legal.
However, in Hawaii, we have a very, very different form of corruption. Bags of cash getting handed to legislatures. You can't get a permit for construction in less than a year unless you bribe someone. The sheriff in Maui was thinking they like be walter white and control all crime syndicates in the county. Web of bribery extending throughout the state house with rumors it goes all the way to Governor Josh green.
So we end up with lots of underground/ "illegal" activity. Underground like, fell neighbor to neighbor, just gotta know, type thing. Get one game room, some thing fell offa truck. local kine shit.
RBWells@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 5d
I'm in the Continental US and our contractor told us about building a porch on his personal house. He was in a historic district and not allowed to make changes without a waiver, even though the porch would make it more like the houses around his, it was not an allowed change. He went through the proper channels, nothing. Until someone he was whining to told him "go on Tuesday, Manny is working. Give him the papers & $500 in an envelope.". That worked.
So sometimes here too, all it takes is a bag of cash and the right worker.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 5d
So it is essentially an ingrained scheme of institutional corruption, too hard to break apart because it has become a de facto means of getting things done.
tomi000@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 5d
Yes, we have a government
mycodesucks@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 6d
I have bad news:
If your government has "private sector" organized crime under control, they have simply taken over the organized crime. Society abhors a vacuum.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 4 pts · 6d
I mean, a government itself is just a big racketeering scheme, with an anthem and good public support. If you look at how they actually function. Edit: And if you think that's necessary and right or not.
If they took control of whatever smaller racketeering group's operations, then that's just a a new tax, which doesn't really make sense.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 5d
That sounds too much of a conspiracy theory to hold any value as an argument.
Are you stating that by default if a nation does not have organized crime, then the state itself is a crime organization?
That implies all individuals within such country are criminals, without excuse or exception.
RBWells@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 6d
There is still some around here, but not like in the past, nobody was shaking us down for protection money in our little storefront (that used to happen in the same neighborhood) but a lot of the drugs still come through those organizations and there are still gangs around - there was a police standoff with a biker gang a few blocks from my house once, they shut down the streets.
I guess the US is too big and disorganized.
Now - LA in the early 1990s - I stayed there awhile and holy crap, anything people say about gangs during that time is true. The police were a big violent gang, the prisons had gang riots, I knew people in gangs even though it wasn't my world, it was widespread. So disorganized organized crime, there was a lot of that back then
neidu3@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 5d
Probably yes, it exists in any country, but most are pretty low profile. Attention is bad for business.
slazer2au@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 6d
I live in a first world country so we have legal organised crime and illegal organised crime.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 6d
Because of course third world countries have no corrupt authorities. /s
Anchorxiety@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 6d
I'm from Northern Ireland and many of the so-called "paramilitary" groups that used to be a part of the conflict here have shifted towards organised crime in the 21st century. It goes for both Republican and Loyalist groups. In fact, these days it's extremely rare for both sides to attack each other. They mostly have internal feuds with rival groups. It's moreso on the Loyalist side, though.
(Just in case anyone isn't aware, Republicans in this context are those who want a full 32 county Irish republic, while Loyalists are those who reject Irish unity and want NI to remain as part of the UK).
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 5d
No matter the amount of brain power I put to it I can't make sense if why the UK does not release the Northern Ireland territory.
Under EU umbrella with would have been nearly frictionless, if well thought out.
And Ireland, as a nation, accepts it. I would love to see the outcomes of referendums on both countries regarding that territory, one for releasing the area, the other on integrating it. Peacefully, obviously.
bedwyr@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 6d
The corporate mob(s) are the worst. But since we don't have anyone willing to take them down, the FBI has too much sand in it's mangina, we don't even get any takedowns.
farmgineer@nord.pub · 4 pts · 6d
I live in Japan so we have Yakuza (and I'm assuming a number of other crime orgs from China, HK, and more). The wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza does a good job of explaining.
Generally they have zero direct impact on my life. Generally the only time they'll mess with foreigners is through scams to get people into bars where they have crazy high prices, drug you, or both. Or, I guess, if you seek them out for some reason.
ttayh@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 5d
Organized crime in Portugal: https://ocindex.net/assets/downloads/2023/english/ocindex_profile_portugal_2023.pdf
highlights: major transit hub for weapons, major destination for human trafficking, major hub for illegal timber
so, more than "some degree of presence." but it seems true that none are homegrown
spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 6d
In the US we have a type of organized crime run by health insurance companies.
Corporations like United Healthcare charge huge monthly premiums then consistently refuse up to 30% of valid claims. They make the appeals process so difficult and time consuming most people never successfully appeal a denial. These companies routinely murder thousands of people each year for money, but since they pay off our lawmakers there are zero repercussions and they're free to continue their murderous activities year after year.
The only difference between this and any other type of organized crime is the profits are legal due to those payoffs, and in part thanks to Citizen's United and our crooked SCOTUS justices.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 6d
If somebody does a bad thing, but that bad thing is legal, they're still not a criminal. So, not a relevant response.
spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 6d
Legalized murder is still murder. Organized crime has compromised government regulators and lawmakers many times and it's still organized crime. Your comment is invalid.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 0 pts · 6d
Oor is that "murder" an execution, or a lawful military strike? All amount to killing people.
And, for what it's worth, most people aren't strict pacifists, so the majority opinion is that killing people can be good, in addition to legal.
spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 6d
Not something I'd expect when discussing organized crime and the legalized murder of people paying companies for insurance coverage. Unfortunately on social media there's always some contrarian will take the opposite position no matter what is said. Today that's you.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 6d
You know, forget about just wars, or moral vs. legal.
This was a question about mafias. Literal mafias, and I think you know the difference. By trying to force this to be another US political thread, you've become whatever the opposite of a contrarian is, and that's worse. Like, a circlejerker, or something.
Lots of us aren't even American! Maybe we don't care about what's going on in your country. (I mean, in general we do, but damn)
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 5d
That is a social problem not organized crime.
spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 5d
Consider this:
The mafia creates a health insurance company that boost profits by immediately refusing to pay 1/3 of legitimate claims and this causes the deaths and suffering of hundreds of thousands of people. They make the red tape so egregious that very, very few of these people can successfully get their valid claims paid.
The mafia is making massive amounts of unearned profits but they can make more, so they pay off government representatives to make sure there are no meaningful penalties for refusing to pay claims and any fines imposed are way less than the profits made. The mafia makes billions of dollars paid for by the deaths and suffering of those who bought their insurance.
Replace "mafia" with "shareholders" or "corporate executives"and it is exactly the system we have now. It is rightly called organized crime (even without the government involvement), despite the corporate brainwashing.
There was a movie made about this practice. It's called "The Rainmaker".
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 6d
How much press an organization gets does not necessarily correspond to how big it is. Obviously, Africa has a certain crime rate, but whatever bandit gang doesn't have the same PR.
In the case of the Irish, mass immigration to America followed by few opportunities once there. I'm not sure how much they did in Ireland itself; probably not nothing, but probably not as much. In the case of southern Italy, what you'll read is that the political instability and weak authorities had something to do with it. Like, the Cosa Nostra functioned more like warlords than your typical criminal organisation, at points.
The Yakuza will tell you they have a direct link to the samurais, but you should believe that about as much as if the 'Ndrangheta told you they were knights. Are they, or do they just figure that will earn them more recruits?
whoisearth@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 6d
In Canada the entire construction industry is basically the mob. Has been for decades.
CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 6d
There's a long standing rumor where I live that the Hell's Angels own a bunch of infrastructure stuff like vehicle registries. I dunno if that's true or not though.
Also a suspicious amount of old buildings that are protected for historical reasons seem to catch fire right after being bought for development.
RBWells@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
Oh my God here too. The city wanted to build a parking garage and one after another, the houses on that lot had "accidental" fires that burned them completely down. I don't think it was organized gangs though, just the city and property owners defrauding insurance.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 5d
I worked with a guy that had a run in with two HA's that came to our country to settle a score for a local affiliate.
What I was told is that they have this structure where if you have enough favour in the "club" to ask for help in solving an issue, you get members sent from abroad to "lend some shade".
The other guy got two bruisers sent from the US that only managed to get beat up and arrested in a very public fashion here. Spent a few months seeing the sun rise chekered and got deported afterwards.
crashex@crazypeople.online · 2 pts · 5d
Before it was fashionable to call 'terrorists' or 'insurgents' to organizations the ruling government doesn't like, 'organized crime' would have been a common term applied to any organization posing as an alternative to said government.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 5d
{citation needed}
BillCheddar@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 5d
When i was a teen, I had a bookie who was affiliated with a certain Italian-American civil rights organization.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 5d
Am I or do I?