Teaching the dwarf planets could be fun, though. What about thebfact that Pluto and Charon orbit one another, and how you could build a space elevator directly from.the surface of one to.the other?
However, if both the difference in mass between the two bodies and the distance between them are relatively small, each may be tidally locked to the other; this is the case for Pluto and Charon
They're apparently tidally-locked, so that's one issue out of the way.
But it’d still have to change length by about 6 km every 3 Earth days.
Maybe this is crazy, but make it a giant jumprope. When they're closer together, the jumprope makes a tighter circle and spins faster. When they're further apart, the jumprope makes a larger circle. Put a weight in the middle so it has enough centripetal force to keep the rope taut.
Trust me, it works, I thought about it for two minutes.
If humanity ever were to have the means to build a 12.2k mile or 19.7k km elevator in space between two planets at the far reach of the solar system, I would assume that we would also be capable of somehow making it longer
Pluto and Charon are mutually tidally locked, so they don't rotate in relation to each other.
Plus, in smaller bodies you don't need impossibly strong materials to make a space elevator like you'd need for Earth. Hell, Kevlar fiber is strong enough to make a space elevator from the Moon to one of the Lunar Lagrange points due to the reduced gravity
Oh, so if light was hitting it's moon you could navigate just by where it is in the sky? I mean I guess you can do that with ours too, but this sounds way easier.
More recently, the campaign has taken on a populist tinge, with Trump’s Nasa administrator, Jared Isaacman, telling a congressional committee in April that he was in favour of a rethink. “I am very much in the camp of Make Pluto a Planet Again,” he said.
I think this says all that needs to be said about it.
oh yeah and me to but I have been technically a scientist at times. Still many people can understand it but some I don't think even want to. They want to hand wave it away and go with their feelings about what should be a planet.
The argument that Pluto would be a planet if it were in a different orbital track is pretty disingenuous, because in a different orbital track it might also be a moon of Jupiter or just flung out into interstellar space.
I think the argument was more of proposing that the definition of its own orbital track is not informative of anything of the body itself but instead only of what is surrounding the object. The argument seems to be an extension of the planetary scientist school of thought (definition of planet should describe planet) vs the astronomical side (name describes motion/in relation to its surroundings)
Orbits the sun, has enough gravity to form a sphere and has cleared it's orbit. It's the clearing the orbit part where Pluto fails, as do Ceres, Haumea, Makemake, and Eris. And also Quaoar, Orcus, Ixion, Varuna, Sedna, Gonggong, Salacia, Varda, Hygiea and Vesta. They all orbit in basically an asteroid field.
Clearing the orbit is a very shorthand version of the meaning. If it was literal, nothing could be a planet as there's always something in every orbital path. It means the planet is massive enough to be the dominant thing within its orbit.
Mercury is an interesting case. While there are some moons that are larger than it, they aren't nearly as dense. Its surface gravity is only a little less than Mars, even though its smaller in size, so it has potential for orbital domination. The Sun certainly helps in keeping other objects clear, but that shouldn't be part of the equation, if Mercury qualifies as a planet it should be able to do it in any orbit. I wonder if you put Mercury where Ceres is and ran for a few millennia what would happen?
Do the Trojan asteroid clusters in Jupiter’s L4 and L5 points still count as “clearing its orbit”?
What if there were a second planet-sized body there?
I would say in that example:
Jupiter is the dominant mass making it be the planet.
Anything in the Lagrangian points would not be planets specifically because anything in those points are there because of Jupiter and its orbit, not in spite of it.
If the coin is so big that you don't notice the garbage, it's money. If you have to sift through the garage to find the coin, it's just worthless loose change.
It rejects science and calls back to "back in my day" folksy rhetoric as the only "evidence" that it should regain planetary status, and frames the entire change as a bureaucratic process being run by out of touch elites. It's conservative populism at it's finest. Straight out of their playbook.
Pluto is only 68% of the size of the Earth's moon. It is only about 2.5 times larger than Ceres, the largest asteroid in our solar system.
A large part of science is refining your understanding as contradictory evidence is found. I used to think Pluto should be a planet, and even met Clyde Tombaugh once, but I have absolutely no concerns about Pluto being reclassified as a dwarf planet. It is just a label and our understanding evolves.
More recently, the campaign has taken on a populist tinge, with Trump’s Nasa administrator, Jared Isaacman, telling a congressional committee in April that he was in favour of a rethink. “I am very much in the camp of Make Pluto a Planet Again,” he said.
74 Comments
TheJesusaurus@piefed.ca · 48 pts · 2d
Either we now have to learn like 21 planets in elementary school (hard) or Pluto gets a technical demotion (easy).
Pluto is still a planet in all our hearts, this is just humanities constant march of trying to become more and more accurate and precise with time
fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net · 13 pts · 2d
Teaching the dwarf planets could be fun, though. What about thebfact that Pluto and Charon orbit one another, and how you could build a space elevator directly from.the surface of one to.the other?
decolo@piefed.social · 2 pts · 2d
wait what? how would that be possible
_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2d
Space is really huge and it might be possible that the theoretical space elevator would never strike another celestial body.
This is 100% speculative and I have absolutely not done any fact checking other than the fact that space is indeed, really Big McLargeHuge.
tal@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 1d
searches
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking
They're apparently tidally-locked, so that's one issue out of the way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charon_(moon)
So it's pretty close to a circular orbit.
But it'd still have to change length by about 6 km every 3 Earth days.
Tiresia@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 1d
Maybe this is crazy, but make it a giant jumprope. When they're closer together, the jumprope makes a tighter circle and spins faster. When they're further apart, the jumprope makes a larger circle. Put a weight in the middle so it has enough centripetal force to keep the rope taut.
Trust me, it works, I thought about it for two minutes.
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social · 2 pts · 1d
If humanity ever were to have the means to build a 12.2k mile or 19.7k km elevator in space between two planets at the far reach of the solar system, I would assume that we would also be capable of somehow making it longer
Dultas@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Gotta think that's less (ratio wise) than expansion joints in bridges.
eleijeep@piefed.social · 2 pts · 1d
It's too late, I'm already going up.
Top! Of! The! Well! Sir!
_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
The finest!
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 1d
Pluto and Charon are mutually tidally locked, so they don't rotate in relation to each other.
Plus, in smaller bodies you don't need impossibly strong materials to make a space elevator like you'd need for Earth. Hell, Kevlar fiber is strong enough to make a space elevator from the Moon to one of the Lunar Lagrange points due to the reduced gravity
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 8h
Elon Musk said by the end of 2026.
SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 1d
My heart pumps blood. My brain does the thinking. Pluto is not a planet. So what? It's still fascinating.
Pluto and Charon are tidally locked, meaning they always face each other as they orbit around. Romanticizing a bit, they are like dancers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU5pQWQRxak
Labels can be helpful for categorizing, organizing our knowledge. Labels do not define us. We're all space stuff.
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 1d
To clarify, they're mutually tidally locked, which is what's rare
Redditmodstouchgrass@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3h
Oh, so if light was hitting it's moon you could navigate just by where it is in the sky? I mean I guess you can do that with ours too, but this sounds way easier.
gothic_lemons@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
This is the song let me forgive science for what they did to Pluto. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wrJ6_GAprFE
acosmichippo@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 2d
I think this says all that needs to be said about it.
XeroxCool@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 2d
Oh, so just another faux-populist distraction. I don't even see the epstein files comments anymore here
Heliumfart@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
Just because it's the only one discovered by an American... Typical.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 24 pts · 1d
if you wanna call Pluto a a planet, do it. The IAU is not going to arrest you or something.
Ophrys@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 1d
Don't believe this person, I said it was a planet and spent 5years locked away in the planetarium
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 9h
(No, this is not a personal opinion).
kat_angstrom@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
That sounds awesome. Did you get to look at all the exhibits?
Ophrys@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 4h
No I had to stay in the toilet
modus@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
And the sun is flat. Fight me.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 1d
You think the sun is flat?
Bro... The UNIVERSE is flat.
webp@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 1d
It's true
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 8h
Listen, like birds and Australia, the universe doesn't exist.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 2 pts · 1d
It is known.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 20 pts · 2d
no. I really wish non scientists would stay out of details like what is actual medicine or classification of astronimical objects.
ElDuderino@lemmus.org · 12 pts · 2d
I'm no scientist, but it's a pretty obvious no if you understand the reason it's no longer considered a planet.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 3 pts · 2d
oh yeah and me to but I have been technically a scientist at times. Still many people can understand it but some I don't think even want to. They want to hand wave it away and go with their feelings about what should be a planet.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · -1 pts · 1d
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1d
Didn't china now have a law where any chucklefuck without a degree can't talk about science or medicine on social media to curb dipshit takes?
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 1d
not sure im willing to go that far but boy is it annoying.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 19 pts · 1d
The argument that Pluto would be a planet if it were in a different orbital track is pretty disingenuous, because in a different orbital track it might also be a moon of Jupiter or just flung out into interstellar space.
maso@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 23h
I think the argument was more of proposing that the definition of its own orbital track is not informative of anything of the body itself but instead only of what is surrounding the object. The argument seems to be an extension of the planetary scientist school of thought (definition of planet should describe planet) vs the astronomical side (name describes motion/in relation to its surroundings)
t_berium@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Yeah, and if my grandma had a weener, she'd have been my grandpa.
gedfromgont@piefed.ca · 11 pts · 2d
Sibbo@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 2d
Pluto in a tiny squeaky voice: "yes"
frongt@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 2d
Betteridge, in a Doctor Manhattan voice: "No."
username_1@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 2d
Oh, plutodrama is still going on. What is the current definition of planet?
Flower@sh.itjust.works · 20 pts · 2d
Orbits the sun, has enough gravity to form a sphere and has cleared it's orbit. It's the clearing the orbit part where Pluto fails, as do Ceres, Haumea, Makemake, and Eris. And also Quaoar, Orcus, Ixion, Varuna, Sedna, Gonggong, Salacia, Varda, Hygiea and Vesta. They all orbit in basically an asteroid field.
AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
Do the Trojan asteroid clusters in Jupiter’s L4 and L5 points still count as “clearing its orbit”?
What if there were a second planet-sized body there?
napoleonsdumbcousin@feddit.org · 6 pts · 2d
There are mathematical formulae for defining it and the dwarf planets have orders of magnitude lower values in comparison to planets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearing_the_neighbourhood
Rhaedas@fedia.io · 4 pts · 2d
Clearing the orbit is a very shorthand version of the meaning. If it was literal, nothing could be a planet as there's always something in every orbital path. It means the planet is massive enough to be the dominant thing within its orbit.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 1d
Mercury: sweats
Rhaedas@fedia.io · 4 pts · 1d
Mercury is an interesting case. While there are some moons that are larger than it, they aren't nearly as dense. Its surface gravity is only a little less than Mars, even though its smaller in size, so it has potential for orbital domination. The Sun certainly helps in keeping other objects clear, but that shouldn't be part of the equation, if Mercury qualifies as a planet it should be able to do it in any orbit. I wonder if you put Mercury where Ceres is and ran for a few millennia what would happen?
GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 1d
Everything sweats (or boils) that close to the sun.
spartanatreyu@programming.dev · 3 pts · 1d
I would say in that example:
icanbrewmushrooms@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
The gorilla from Super Monkey Ball?
Flower@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
It's also a god in Chinese mythology.
icanbrewmushrooms@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
That makes a lot more sense
username_1@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 2d
So a coin stops being money if tossed to a garbage pile? :)
Flower@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 2d
If the coin is so big that you don't notice the garbage, it's money. If you have to sift through the garage to find the coin, it's just worthless loose change.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 2d
A forged coin isn't money despite seeming like it is at first glance.
username_1@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 2d
Pluto is real. The only problem with it -- it being in the garbage belt and not in a separate orbit. Or is there something else?
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 2d
Well, forged coins are also "real". They can be identical to authentic coins but still be counterfeit.
Position very much matters to planets or else large moons would be planets.
username_1@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 2d
Just link planets to the star and there won't be any problems with "large moons".
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 23h
This kind of thing just fuels the anti-science conservative agenda. Knock it off.
rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 15h
Explain
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 9h
It rejects science and calls back to "back in my day" folksy rhetoric as the only "evidence" that it should regain planetary status, and frames the entire change as a bureaucratic process being run by out of touch elites. It's conservative populism at it's finest. Straight out of their playbook.
socsa@piefed.social · 7 pts · 2d
Trump is literally just doing sitcom bits now
el_twitto@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 7h
Pluto is only 68% of the size of the Earth's moon. It is only about 2.5 times larger than Ceres, the largest asteroid in our solar system.
A large part of science is refining your understanding as contradictory evidence is found. I used to think Pluto should be a planet, and even met Clyde Tombaugh once, but I have absolutely no concerns about Pluto being reclassified as a dwarf planet. It is just a label and our understanding evolves.
RobotToaster@mander.xyz · 4 pts · 2d
Everyone forgets Pallas.
ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 1d
The raven remembers
Triumph@fedia.io · 4 pts · 2d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_I_Killed_Pluto_and_Why_It_Had_It_Coming
treadful@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 2d
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 3 pts · 2d
_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 2d
Pretty sure there's an Aesop Rock song about this...
ivanovsky@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
They say Pluto is not a planet. Do you think that Pluto gives a shit? https://youtu.be/kK0KPuH32mc
W98BSoD@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1d
Did anyone ask Ann Francis?
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 8h
The IAU can go to buggery: Pluto was, is, and always will be a planet!
ashenone@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 1d
You hear about Pluto? That's messed up right?