That's a different point though. If you have a termite infestation, you might say that they're invasive to the house and it's not their natural element. However you might also say that they live there, which is equally true.
If you have a termite infestation, you might say that they're invasive to the house and it's not their natural element. However you might also say that they live there, which is equally true.
But the post is about sharks in the ocean. It is their natural habitat, they live there, but because they're sometimes inconvenient to humans, humans sometimes use the phrase "shark-infested waters", which can be damaging because it frames disrupting the ecosystem as some kind of defensive act.
And my point was it's the humans that don't belong and cause damage and yet there have been humans infesting the oceans since time immemorial and it's only getting worse.
For example, "Native Americans" did not "infest" the United States. White people did.
Do you imagine the various indigenous populations of Americas popped out of the ground like mushrooms? They're pretty far from their "natural habitat" in the plains of sub-saharan Africa... Or is that too far back in history and their "natural habitat" is in Siberia and Polynesia?
It's not that they came from nowhere, but rather that they aren't pests. Invaders slaughtered them and colonized the country, and in modern times are actively destroying ecosystems and the environment.
Yes the white folks came and made a mess of the place. Which, if sharks chose to move into your house, they would also do. Probably leave the taps running all over the place too
So the right phrasing would be "no, it's their natural habitat", not "no, they live there", since, and this was my point if you go back, if an animal infests something it usually lives there, making the point in the post redundant.
Valid point. Although that's without their consent, whereas most humans infesting the ocean are choosing to remain there, USS Abraham Lincoln sailors notwithstanding.
No, it is about their presence being wanted or not. I don't want to go to a swamp because is infested with mosquitoes for example, mosquitoes were always there.
I see. The word infested has nothing to do with being their natural habitats or not, it means that there's plenty of an animal we don't want for whatever reason, otherwise we would say that it is rich in those animals.
Edit: Oh, second I see. The fallacy is that they are using a wrong definition that is creeping into a common use of the word not yet in the dictionary.
Actually marinas like the one pictured or "canal estates" often create environments that become "infested" with pests and predators. Some of which for example contain bull sharks in plague proportions. Yes sharks live in the ocean but anyone living next to a canal teaming with them would conclude that there is an "investation".
Bull sharks are unique in that they can somehow retain salt from ocean / salt / brackish water which allows them to operate in fresh water. They're also more aggressive than other species, or perhaps just more likely to grab at movement in murky river water.
I remember watching a documentary suggesting that bull shark attacks might have been the inspiration for the Jaws series, after a spate of attacks in estuaries in the US in the years prior.
Jeremy Wade on River Monsters TV series also had an episode about them.
I just watched a movie last week where these people where exploring a freshwater cave and then became trapped by a shark. I thought it was some stupid movie detail, didn't know it might actually be possible.
On a related note, the âCitiesâ episode of Planet Earth is an interesting one. Human cities are the fastest growing ecosystem on Earth, so why wouldnât our fellow planetary inhabitants want to take our shit when weâve been taking theirs?
Eh, we see lots of people infested places and they can also live there. The two things can both be true. (Granted the number of sharks needed for this title is a bit low).
55 Comments
gjoel@programming.dev · 35 pts · 1d
Isn't that usually how infestations work though?
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 40 pts · 1d
Humans infest shark habitats. You don't see sharks coming into your gated community, do you?
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 1d
Would be a rad way to thin out the herd of xenophobic rich people, though đ€
gjoel@programming.dev · 4 pts · 1d
No, sharks rarely infest gated communities. The point was that infestations usually consist of animals that live in the place they are undesired.
SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today · 9 pts · 1d
No, the point is that indigenous populations are not infesting their own natural habitats.
For example, "Native Americans" did not "infest" the United States. White people did.
gjoel@programming.dev · 5 pts · 1d
That's a different point though. If you have a termite infestation, you might say that they're invasive to the house and it's not their natural element. However you might also say that they live there, which is equally true.
SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 19h
But the post is about sharks in the ocean. It is their natural habitat, they live there, but because they're sometimes inconvenient to humans, humans sometimes use the phrase "shark-infested waters", which can be damaging because it frames disrupting the ecosystem as some kind of defensive act.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 19h
And my point was it's the humans that don't belong and cause damage and yet there have been humans infesting the oceans since time immemorial and it's only getting worse.
SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 18h
Right, I agree with you. I was responding to gjoel's comments.
bobo@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 1d
Do you imagine the various indigenous populations of Americas popped out of the ground like mushrooms? They're pretty far from their "natural habitat" in the plains of sub-saharan Africa... Or is that too far back in history and their "natural habitat" is in Siberia and Polynesia?
SnoopSqueak@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 19h
It's not that they came from nowhere, but rather that they aren't pests. Invaders slaughtered them and colonized the country, and in modern times are actively destroying ecosystems and the environment.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 19h
Yes the white folks came and made a mess of the place. Which, if sharks chose to move into your house, they would also do. Probably leave the taps running all over the place too
gjoel@programming.dev · 2 pts · 18h
So the right phrasing would be "no, it's their natural habitat", not "no, they live there", since, and this was my point if you go back, if an animal infests something it usually lives there, making the point in the post redundant.
Natanael@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 21h
A zoo is a gated community
MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 18h
Damn snobbish animals living in gated communities.
gjoel@programming.dev · 3 pts · 18h
And sharks regularly infest zoos?
Natanael@infosec.pub · 4 pts · 17h
Wouldn't you if you were a shark? It's a whole smörgÄsbord
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 19h
Valid point. Although that's without their consent, whereas most humans infesting the ocean are choosing to remain there, USS Abraham Lincoln sailors notwithstanding.
Zaphod@discuss.tchncs.de · 20 pts · 1d
Aren't infestations about something that wasn't there before and doesn't actually belong there?
quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 1d
No, it is about their presence being wanted or not. I don't want to go to a swamp because is infested with mosquitoes for example, mosquitoes were always there.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/infestation
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/infest
credo@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 17h
I saw both links pop up as well. I opted to go with the first, standard, bookâ websterâs instead of cherry picking.
The problem is, both meanings are correct. However, the âtroublesomeâ definition is primary.. and look at the example given:
1 to spread or swarm in or over in a troublesome manner
shark-infested waters
2 to live in or on as a parasite
Rothe@piefed.social · 0 pts · 23h
We are aware of the dictionary definition. OP was precisely about arguing that that definition is a based on a fallacy.
quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 21h
Where is the fallacy?
BossDj@piefed.social · 0 pts · 19h
Present where they are unwanted, but often used to describe their natural habitat.
quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 18h
I see. The word infested has nothing to do with being their natural habitats or not, it means that there's plenty of an animal we don't want for whatever reason, otherwise we would say that it is rich in those animals.
Edit: Oh, second I see. The fallacy is that they are using a wrong definition that is creeping into a common use of the word not yet in the dictionary.
SpaceScotsman@startrek.website · 31 pts · 22h
Human infested cities. Cat infested cafés. Cattle infested farms.
sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 20h
Humans infested every place including oceans honestly
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 19h
Humans are a disease. You are a cancer on this planet.
Edit: Are we so old, you and I, that no one else gets the Matrix ref?
TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 17h
Hmm
Sidhean@piefed.social · 4 pts · 10h
Thanks, you too!
BenLeMan@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 17h
Calm down there, AI clanker.
RobotToaster@mander.xyz · 23 pts · 1d
I'm taking this far too seriously for a meme, but I already looked it up out of curiosity so ÂŻâ \â _â (â ăâ )â _â /â ÂŻ
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/infest
Interestingly (at least to me) it looks like it's related to "manifest'.
ignotum@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 1d
Ah so i can say "human infested planet" then
Uli@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 22h
"Welcome to my me-infested home."
TRock@feddit.dk · 6 pts · 1d
Yep
Peppycito@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 21h
Puts a new spin on Manifest Destiny.
MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 18h
One man's infestation is another man's colonisation.
im_fine_sandy@nord.pub · 17 pts · 1d
Actually marinas like the one pictured or "canal estates" often create environments that become "infested" with pests and predators. Some of which for example contain bull sharks in plague proportions. Yes sharks live in the ocean but anyone living next to a canal teaming with them would conclude that there is an "investation".
Bull sharks are unique in that they can somehow retain salt from ocean / salt / brackish water which allows them to operate in fresh water. They're also more aggressive than other species, or perhaps just more likely to grab at movement in murky river water.
I remember watching a documentary suggesting that bull shark attacks might have been the inspiration for the Jaws series, after a spate of attacks in estuaries in the US in the years prior.
Jeremy Wade on River Monsters TV series also had an episode about them.
johnyreeferseed@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 17h
I just watched a movie last week where these people where exploring a freshwater cave and then became trapped by a shark. I thought it was some stupid movie detail, didn't know it might actually be possible.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1d
infest verb in·âfest in-Ëfest infested; infesting; infests Synonyms of infest transitive verb
1 : to spread or swarm in or over in a troublesome manner shark-infested waters
2 : to live in or on as a parasite
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 1d
Oktober-fest;
1 : to spread or swarm in or over in a troublesome manner buxom-waitress-in traditional-dress infested waters
2 : to live in or on as a completely smashed parasite
Godric@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
Shut up! Germans just live there!
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 22h
Yeah, it's just their lebensraum, nothing to be concerned about at all.
MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 18h
Godric@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Shut up! Termites just live there!
melfie@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 17h
On a related note, the âCitiesâ episode of Planet Earth is an interesting one. Human cities are the fastest growing ecosystem on Earth, so why wouldnât our fellow planetary inhabitants want to take our shit when weâve been taking theirs?
Danarchy@lemmy.nz · 7 pts · 23h
This is why festivals are called that all teeming with wretched humans and their various parasites
anon_8675309@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 22h
Infest-ivals?
M0oP0o@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 10h
Eh, we see lots of people infested places and they can also live there. The two things can both be true. (Granted the number of sharks needed for this title is a bit low).
judgy_jackdaw@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
then what does ever infest anything
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Bedbugs, human habitations.
hansolo@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 21h
Bro, the way I'm infesting my pants right now...
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 9h
rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 17h
Not like this Palestinian infested west bank!
mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 9h
It's time to play "Is this Fascism or Bad Sarcasm?"!
rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 3h