As if being shredded to atoms wasn't harsh enough, you don't even get keep your neutrons and electrons in this process. I guess it still counts as "exiting" the black hole, but just barely.
Anything more complex than an atom is going to be disintegrated before it even enters a black hole due to the intense energies at play at the interface.
Literally, impossible. To exit the event horizon of a black hole, you'd have to travel faster than the speed of light. We know for a fact that anything with mass cannot travel at the speed of light. (And anything without mass MUST travel at the speed of light) Once you cross the event horizon, you've been entirely and irreversibly separated from the rest of the universe.
It's not even about needing to exceed the speed of light. Once you cross the event horizon, spacetime around you is so warped that "out" doesn't exist anymore. Point your ship in any direction and fire up your FTL engine; it doesn't matter. No matter which way you try and fly your ship, you'll be getting closer to the center. Once you cross the event horizon, there is literally no way out.
I love how mind bending it is imagining what lies inside a black hole. Everything we know about physics may essentially go right out the window beyond the event horizon.
Well, there's the hypothesis of a "naked singularity" whereas if enough charge or spin could be added to a black hole, the event horizon, aka, the black part of a black hole, could just vanish. This would expose the singularity at its center but its just a hypothesis. Or better yet, a thought experiment at best. This wouldn't eliminate its mass though.
Yes, I know, but realistically, many (most?) people just want brief, general information, which is what the introductory paragraph is for, no? So I'd argue it should say "hypothesised" or "predicted" somewhere in the, ideally, first sentence.
Okay, might have worded that better. It says "The radiation was not predicted by previous models" and "is predicted to be extremely faint", not "it is predicted to exist" - and also "[it] is many orders of magnitude below [...]" which sounds like a statement of fact. I realise this may be nitpicky but I don't know if people who don't know anything about the subject would interpret that as "we don't really know if it even exists yet".
More or less. In my layman's understanding: Black holes 'evaporate' slowly through Hawking radiation, losing mass as a function of their surface area (simplistically, particle/anti-particle pairs 'pop out of nothing' near the event horizon, one gets swallowed up the other escapes, this means a net loss of energy, which has to 'paid' by the black hole losing mass, think E=mc^2^).
Since a black hole behaves (geometrically) like any other sphere, the proportion of its area to its volume will grow as the black hole loses mass (i.e. it will have more and more relative area the smaller it gets), this process speeds up over time thus ending in what I guess you could call an explosion (more a whimper than a bang, to borrow a phrase).
They'll wander forever through an ever expanding space, meaning they probably won't ever come across a different particle.
Eventually everything will reach equilibrium, aka the state where nothing moves anymore because everything it could react with is too far away to cause any reaction.
With super massive black holes, you could pass the event horizon and not even know it. To you, everything would remain relatively (no pun intended) comfortable. You could live for a couple days, falling towards the singularity before the gravitational gradient becomes enough to rip you apart, thus ending your life.
I would assume that anything that lies within the photon sphere could never have a stable orbit. The photon sphere is the point that light itself orbits the black hole and its 1.5x the radius of the blackhole itself. Anything closer to the singularity than this boundry is doomed to fall into the singularity as it would require faster than light speeds to maintain any stable orbit.
I wonder if anything could actually cross the photon sphere at all without getting vaporized by potentially billions of years of accumulated light that got stuck orbiting the black hole.
Hell, forget the photon sphere, even. Know that jet of energy black holes are thought to sprew out at their poles due to the material falling in to them? Imagine what that material is doing inside the event horizon. Whatever it is, it'll be pretty violent, enough to call the moon slamming into the earth "relatively peaceful". It would probably be more pleasant hanging out in the core of the sun than even an AU away from a black hole's event horizon (and I mean on the outside).
Also, the event horizon is where light cannot escape. The "spacecraft event horizon", or the orbital plane surrounding a black hole where a spacecraft couldn't escape it is going to be much farther out, unless we can figure out ftl travel.
If I recall correctly, the photon sphere orbit is unstable, so there may not be a ton of photons there. "Unstable" in this sense means that photons in adjacent orbits tend to diverge away from the photon sphere orbit rather than toward it.
For Schwarzchild holes, the lowest circular orbit for massive objects is at 3 event horizons, which is above the photon sphere. There are unstable circular orbits down to 2 horizons. Black hole rotation reduces this altitude for prograde orbits asymptotically down to 1 horizon.
don't fight against gravity by trying to fly directly towards the universe. Instead, fly parallel to the universe until you are out of the black hole's pull, then angle back towards the universe.
isn't that a direct contradiction? If I'm causally disconnected from a region, in what sense am I "inside" that region? I am causally disconnected from the past, am I in the past? I am causally disconnected from regions of space that are expanding away from me faster than the speed of light, am I "in" those regions in any sense?
They'll each boil off into their parent universes due to Hawking radiation once their respective parent universes reach heat death, so yes, each child is still inside its parent.
But try not to think about orthogonal timelines across causal boundaries or you'll give yourself a headache.
With the assumption that we are alright in there, wait until it evaporates naturally. I hope you brought a lot of books, cause depending on its mass, it can take some time.
Actually, it may be that it quite literally can't take any time inside a singularity! As you approach a singularity, the spacetime curve representing the passage of time approaches zero, meaning that from your perspective, the universe outside the event horizon moves more and more impossibly fast, and from an outside perspective, you move more and more slowly until your motion appears to stop entirely.
At the singularity, our understanding of spacetime basically just shrugs in an infinite manner, puts on its hat, and clocks out for the day. It may be that, for the singularity, the entirety of time between the collapse of the star that formed the black hole and the eventual evaporation of the black hole due to Hawking radiation are compressed into a single instant, and no time at all passes for it.
So you might not need any books at all, because by the time you reach the singularity (which wouldn't take a particularly long subjective time), it may well be the end of the universe. Hope you paid the meter.
(Edit to add: Now, probably not. Hawking radiation has to come from somewhere, meaning the particles that have been absorbed had to be converted into them at some point, and that can't happen if those particles are also still matter (or whatever) in an eternal conga line at the singularity. But hey, our understanding of physics literally can't be confirmed or denied inside of a black hole, so your fanfic is as good as anyone's!)
The singularity will pull you in, feet first, then the tidal effect will spaghettify you. You will be ripped apart atom by atom by those same tidal forces. You cannot escape the event horizon.
With space time snapshot machine I guess, you setup space time snapshot machine to take snapshot and setup detector on your body particles to roll you back from snapshot after your every particle is altered and it rolls you back to previous state. I think this should work.
102 Comments
remon@ani.social · 147 pts · 362d
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world · 75 pts · 362d
You evaporate over billions of years via Hawking radiation.
rikudou@lemmings.world · 31 pts · 362d
Try more like trillions of trillions of trillions... repeat a few more times.
pressanykeynow@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
Luckily time flies fast inside.
TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 362d
As if being shredded to atoms wasn't harsh enough, you don't even get keep your neutrons and electrons in this process. I guess it still counts as "exiting" the black hole, but just barely.
scarabic@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 361d
Well your information is preserved in the universe and that’s all any of us can really lay claim to anyway.
ApathyTree@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 360d
That assumes black holes aren’t the Big Bang white hole events of new pocket universes of the fizzy foam multiverse.
You could be part of a whole new universe! You wouldn’t know it, but how fun!
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
What if I have somewhere to be before then?
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 42 pts · 362d
Generally speaking, as Hawking Radiation.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 362d
what if i want to use my legs afters
adespoton@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 361d
You’d have to build them first.
Anything more complex than an atom is going to be disintegrated before it even enters a black hole due to the intense energies at play at the interface.
Tinidril@midwest.social · 8 pts · 361d
Anything as complex as an atom will be disintegrated too.
dogs0n@sh.itjust.works · 38 pts · 361d
When you're ready, you should see a bookshelf. Start messing with the books to send a message to your daughter and maybe she will help you.
Prerequisites: daughter
sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 361d
:0
JPSound@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 362d
Literally, impossible. To exit the event horizon of a black hole, you'd have to travel faster than the speed of light. We know for a fact that anything with mass cannot travel at the speed of light. (And anything without mass MUST travel at the speed of light) Once you cross the event horizon, you've been entirely and irreversibly separated from the rest of the universe.
WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 361d
It's not even about needing to exceed the speed of light. Once you cross the event horizon, spacetime around you is so warped that "out" doesn't exist anymore. Point your ship in any direction and fire up your FTL engine; it doesn't matter. No matter which way you try and fly your ship, you'll be getting closer to the center. Once you cross the event horizon, there is literally no way out.
JPSound@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 361d
I love how mind bending it is imagining what lies inside a black hole. Everything we know about physics may essentially go right out the window beyond the event horizon.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 361d
Does this also mean that black holes are totally indestructible?
WolfLink@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 361d
Basically.
They slowly decay as hawking radiation, but there’s nothing you can do to speed up the process.
JPSound@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 361d
Well, there's the hypothesis of a "naked singularity" whereas if enough charge or spin could be added to a black hole, the event horizon, aka, the black part of a black hole, could just vanish. This would expose the singularity at its center but its just a hypothesis. Or better yet, a thought experiment at best. This wouldn't eliminate its mass though.
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 361d
zakobjoa@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 362d
Through the gift shop.
Alexstarfire@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 362d
db2@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 362d
You wait for it to reach a critical mass and explode. Might take a little while.
remon@ani.social · 29 pts · 362d
You're maybe thinking of white dwarfs. Black holes don't do that.
victorz@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 362d
Do they do that? Is that what the Big Bang was?
remon@ani.social · 33 pts · 362d
They don't. They do evaporate though.
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 8 pts · 362d
That's a hypothesis though, right? They haven't detected any yet afaik (which the article could make clearer in its introduction).
remon@ani.social · 7 pts · 362d
Yeah, it mentions it at the end under the "Experimental observation" section.
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 2 pts · 362d
Yes, I know, but realistically, many (most?) people just want brief, general information, which is what the introductory paragraph is for, no? So I'd argue it should say "hypothesised" or "predicted" somewhere in the, ideally, first sentence.
remon@ani.social · 4 pts · 362d
It does say that it is a "model" and "predicted" in the first paragraph.
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 2 pts · 362d
Okay, might have worded that better. It says "The radiation was not predicted by previous models" and "is predicted to be extremely faint", not "it is predicted to exist" - and also "[it] is many orders of magnitude below [...]" which sounds like a statement of fact. I realise this may be nitpicky but I don't know if people who don't know anything about the subject would interpret that as "we don't really know if it even exists yet".
timroerstroem@feddit.dk · 13 pts · 362d
More or less. In my layman's understanding: Black holes 'evaporate' slowly through Hawking radiation, losing mass as a function of their surface area (simplistically, particle/anti-particle pairs 'pop out of nothing' near the event horizon, one gets swallowed up the other escapes, this means a net loss of energy, which has to 'paid' by the black hole losing mass, think E=mc^2^).
Since a black hole behaves (geometrically) like any other sphere, the proportion of its area to its volume will grow as the black hole loses mass (i.e. it will have more and more relative area the smaller it gets), this process speeds up over time thus ending in what I guess you could call an explosion (more a whimper than a bang, to borrow a phrase).
Part 2 of your question: We don't know.
meco03211@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 362d
Wouldn't the hawking radiation need to be a higher rate than the black hole is absorbing matter?
remon@ani.social · 6 pts · 362d
Yes, the effect is extremely tiny and easily offset when a black hole is "feeding".
rikudou@lemmings.world · 5 pts · 362d
Which will eventually happen to all black holes because the last things remaining will be black holes, so there would be no matter to absorb.
meco03211@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 362d
Which begs the question, what happens to the estranged particle that escapes the black hole from hawking radiation.
rikudou@lemmings.world · 4 pts · 362d
They'll wander forever through an ever expanding space, meaning they probably won't ever come across a different particle.
Eventually everything will reach equilibrium, aka the state where nothing moves anymore because everything it could react with is too far away to cause any reaction.
Ziggurat@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 362d
Which is why it would work with a small black hole, but not with a large one
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 361d
depends how close you are, and not getting spaghettified.
zeropointone@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 362d
JPSound@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 362d
With super massive black holes, you could pass the event horizon and not even know it. To you, everything would remain relatively (no pun intended) comfortable. You could live for a couple days, falling towards the singularity before the gravitational gradient becomes enough to rip you apart, thus ending your life.
zeropointone@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 362d
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 361d
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 361d
Now I have a doubt. Could you have a stable orbit around the singularity but inside the event horizon? Or is the orbit speed above c?
Maybe you could live a comfy life there.
JPSound@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 361d
I would assume that anything that lies within the photon sphere could never have a stable orbit. The photon sphere is the point that light itself orbits the black hole and its 1.5x the radius of the blackhole itself. Anything closer to the singularity than this boundry is doomed to fall into the singularity as it would require faster than light speeds to maintain any stable orbit.
I wonder if anything could actually cross the photon sphere at all without getting vaporized by potentially billions of years of accumulated light that got stuck orbiting the black hole.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 361d
Hell, forget the photon sphere, even. Know that jet of energy black holes are thought to sprew out at their poles due to the material falling in to them? Imagine what that material is doing inside the event horizon. Whatever it is, it'll be pretty violent, enough to call the moon slamming into the earth "relatively peaceful". It would probably be more pleasant hanging out in the core of the sun than even an AU away from a black hole's event horizon (and I mean on the outside).
Also, the event horizon is where light cannot escape. The "spacecraft event horizon", or the orbital plane surrounding a black hole where a spacecraft couldn't escape it is going to be much farther out, unless we can figure out ftl travel.
mkwt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 361d
If I recall correctly, the photon sphere orbit is unstable, so there may not be a ton of photons there. "Unstable" in this sense means that photons in adjacent orbits tend to diverge away from the photon sphere orbit rather than toward it.
For Schwarzchild holes, the lowest circular orbit for massive objects is at 3 event horizons, which is above the photon sphere. There are unstable circular orbits down to 2 horizons. Black hole rotation reduces this altitude for prograde orbits asymptotically down to 1 horizon.
CatDogL0ver@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 362d
Which technology? Become a bigger AH than the black hole?
zeropointone@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 362d
rikudou@lemmings.world · 2 pts · 362d
That's actually not that hard, if we're talking about a rotating black hole that's sufficiently large (like the supermassive ones are).
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 361d
Space time gets so curved that literally every direction around you is the center of the black hole.
You look forward? Black hole center.
Behind you? Center
Up down? You guessed it
From your perspective, the center literally is the only direction you can go, deeper.
BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz · 9 pts · 361d
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 360d
So if you walk backwards, every direction leads out. Easy!
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 359d
Exactly!
renamon_silver@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 361d
Vacation is seeming further and further away.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 361d
The good news though is that so does work. So does anything, really.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
Well, the end of it is, at least.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 361d
Have 5D future humans put you in the tesseract, then you exit seeing your daughter on their deathbed while you barely aged a day.
nikosey@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 361d
don't fight against gravity by trying to fly directly towards the universe. Instead, fly parallel to the universe until you are out of the black hole's pull, then angle back towards the universe.
Backhandedsmack@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 361d
No no no. You need to take the u-turn at the other end of the universe.
Strider@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 361d
Through a white hole.
(not kidding)
_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 361d
Pika@rekabu.ru · 1 pts · 360d
To be fair, we only recently actually saw a black hole, and before that, it was just assumed to exist by its gravitational effects.
Olhonestjim@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
Or if every Universe begins with a white hole, you now have a set of keys to the Multiverse.
yermaw@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 360d
So what is it?
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 361d
One wouldn't
PetteriSkaffari@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 361d
You can eveporate your way out of it, given enough time.
Im28xwa@lemdro.id · 10 pts · 362d
go to the other end
Notyou@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 361d
Exactly, when you're going through hell, keep going. Maybe you'll find a white hole in the other end with a new universe to explore.
allo@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 362d
with a stronger blackhole next to your blackhole. just have a stronger pull.
its like how do u have bribed politicians not vote according to that bribe: bribe them with a bigger bribe.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 361d
You'll be slowly radiated out one half of an entangled pair of particles at a time. Arranging for reconstruction might prove difficult.
Zachariah@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 362d
by entering a black hole nested in that black hole
https://www.space.com/space-exploration/james-webb-space-telescope/is-our-universe-trapped-inside-a-black-hole-this-james-webb-space-telescope-discovery-might-blow-your-mind
palordrolap@fedia.io · 2 pts · 362d
Hmm. You might be causally disconnected from the grandparent reality, but you're technically still inside both child and grandchild.
BussyGyatt@feddit.org · 1 pts · 362d
isn't that a direct contradiction? If I'm causally disconnected from a region, in what sense am I "inside" that region? I am causally disconnected from the past, am I in the past? I am causally disconnected from regions of space that are expanding away from me faster than the speed of light, am I "in" those regions in any sense?
palordrolap@fedia.io · 2 pts · 362d
They'll each boil off into their parent universes due to Hawking radiation once their respective parent universes reach heat death, so yes, each child is still inside its parent.
But try not to think about orthogonal timelines across causal boundaries or you'll give yourself a headache.
hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 360d
You don't.
Fleur_@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 360d
Are you capable of moving faster than the speed of light?
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
Pretty sure even that wouldn't work? Once inside all directions become further in, or all futures become further in, or some bullshit like that.
pressanykeynow@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 360d
But travelling faster than light you can go to the past before you passed the event horizon.
Fleur_@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 360d
Doesn't matter once your breaking constants
renamon_silver@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 360d
Maybe my farts are
Fleur_@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 360d
Real
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 360d
or have a time dilation device from sg1, that is modified by replicators
thatradomguy@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 362d
feed it taco bell
AA5B@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 361d
As a jet of energy, assuming you haven’t actually crossed the event horizon
xePBMg9@lemmynsfw.com · 5 pts · 362d
With the assumption that we are alright in there, wait until it evaporates naturally. I hope you brought a lot of books, cause depending on its mass, it can take some time.
667@lemmy.radio · 2 pts · 361d
Only from an outside perspective. Inside the black hole it’s already next Tuesday.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 359d
Actually, it may be that it quite literally can't take any time inside a singularity! As you approach a singularity, the spacetime curve representing the passage of time approaches zero, meaning that from your perspective, the universe outside the event horizon moves more and more impossibly fast, and from an outside perspective, you move more and more slowly until your motion appears to stop entirely.
At the singularity, our understanding of spacetime basically just shrugs in an infinite manner, puts on its hat, and clocks out for the day. It may be that, for the singularity, the entirety of time between the collapse of the star that formed the black hole and the eventual evaporation of the black hole due to Hawking radiation are compressed into a single instant, and no time at all passes for it.
So you might not need any books at all, because by the time you reach the singularity (which wouldn't take a particularly long subjective time), it may well be the end of the universe. Hope you paid the meter.
(Edit to add: Now, probably not. Hawking radiation has to come from somewhere, meaning the particles that have been absorbed had to be converted into them at some point, and that can't happen if those particles are also still matter (or whatever) in an eternal conga line at the singularity. But hey, our understanding of physics literally can't be confirmed or denied inside of a black hole, so your fanfic is as good as anyone's!)
RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 359d
Enjoyable read!
zaphod@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 360d
That's the fun part, you don't.
Asidonhopo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 362d
Magic
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 361d
You go into a white hole, duh
HatchetHaro@pawb.social · 3 pts · 360d
same as you would anybody's hole: just pull out.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 362d
The singularity will pull you in, feet first, then the tidal effect will spaghettify you. You will be ripped apart atom by atom by those same tidal forces. You cannot escape the event horizon.
Good luck!
CatDogL0ver@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 362d
Perhaps op can escape in a form of electromagnetic radiation....
vane@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
With space time snapshot machine I guess, you setup space time snapshot machine to take snapshot and setup detector on your body particles to roll you back from snapshot after your every particle is altered and it rolls you back to previous state. I think this should work.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 360d
And never trust it when it says "quick save" always make a manual backup!
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 360d
Find the Myotrope, invert your orthocameral orbit, grab your ankles, and hold on!
jerkface@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 361d
The only direction is forward. Better hope it leads somewhere.
RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com · 1 pts · 361d
You just pop out the white hole on the other end.
BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 362d
You just need water and magnets
fritobugger2017@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 360d
I don't know about exiting but I like Entering A Black Hole Backwards followed by Chilly Water.
BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 362d
You throw a big party in a place as far as your eyes can see. You call it the event horizon.
Batman@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 359d
you just walk out. might need to build a bridge first
JPSound@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 362d
mechoman444@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 361d
Spaghettified... Mostly.