apparently nominally a member of a social-democratic party
When I was younger, I believed that social-democratic parties were better than conservative ones on matters of civil liberties. I stand corrected on that.
The capitalist counties have proven that surveillance and censorship is more effective when you make it so subtle that a majority of their citizens are unaware that it's happening.
As a dane: The social democratic party in Denmark has changed a lot in the last 10-20 years. It used to be much more left-leaning. Nowadays it's essentially a middle party. They adopted quite a few policies from the right wing (especially on the immigration area), in an attempt to keep the power basically, and it has worked immensely well, in the sense that many, many people have voted for them.
The consequence of Chat conttrol is a next step to open and control your post cards and any other privat correspondence with the same stupid argument of "security".
Encrypted comunication exist for a good reason.
All of the west has had conservative aristocrats take over their mainstream parties, the only reform vote is the far right misdirecting anger from the plutocracy to immigrants and everything else.
Without getting a popular reform option fascists will seize the entire west with russia and the us helping behind the scenes, and fix elections like in hungary or however and we will not be able to get rid of them even as they get worse every cycle.
The western european countries will fall like dominoes with current leadership and lack thereof. We need to organize first, then find and groom real leaders, then take elections and direct anger to it's sources, the super rich.
Why do people not realize how unacceptable all that shit is?
I mean imagine in the old days before email someone said that they wanted to open all mail packages and examine the contents as well as make a copy of all letters sent, personal or professional, that were sent through the mail? People would have been right outraged. Is it that because somehow posting things on a cell phone or computer makes them feel... less real?
Also every fucking time I see shit like this I am reminded of an old comic from Mad Magazine... it featured a young office boy talking to the sleazy manager. He says 'hey, I heard you started out just like me, and now you're practically running the whole company, can you give me some advice?'
And he responds 'well, for starters... make sure you read EVERYONES personal letters.'
I was a young kid when I first saw it and I didn't understand. But now I fucking do.
Some context, which I’m sure will be downvoted because we don’t like chat control.
The Danes currently hold the rotating presidency for the council. As such they are required to be the architects of the council position, good initiatives and bad.
The EU holds countries that are against government access to chat services and countries that believe access should be routine and warrant-free.
The Danish “architect of chat control” is thus required, by EU law, to define a compromise position and see if that can be voted through in the council.
The compromise position is a combination of “scanning at source” using both known fingerprints and AI, with a warrant based access process for police sources.
As a compromise position that’s possible passable in parliament and council.
I personally think the whole thing the entire thing is unworkable in practice. But the Danes are getting involved because they have to.
The problem is that they don't have to prevent encryption at all...
Many governments are already recording and storing incredible amounts of your Internet traffic.
With this new legislation they want to require all companies, that offer some form of encrypted communication, to submit all the messages for scanning before they are encrypted. So they want to force Facebook and many others to actually intercept the messages before they get "end-to-end" encrypted, so they can get scanned by AI and other systems to look for CSAM.
Of course they can't prevent encryption... Anyone can get some encryption software that doesn't submit the messages to scanning before encrypting...
Now you as a person have the options of either using a platform that scans your messages, or finding something that actually offers privacy.
If the government then decides that they want to investigate you, then they just dig into their trove of intercepted messages. If you only used scanned services, then they can see all your messages and probably find something in them to prosecute you over. But if you used any encrypted services they don't have access to, then they can just start prosecuting you for using encryption that they can't spy on...
In either case you lose, and they gain the ability to practically put anyone they want behind bars.
And who knows who will wield these tools at a later point, and what they might decide should be illegal, which they can then immediately dig for in all their previously stored and scanned messages.
Yeah the criminals will quickly find ways to avoid using services that scan client side is my main issue.
I'm technical enough that I can too if the time ever comes. I'm in the "nothing criminal to hide, but fuck you you're not seeing my texts anyway" camp.
And who knows who will wield these tools at a later point
History is so, so full of examples of this being abused by what were originally well intentioned motives (Jews in The Netherlands rounded up because of census information etc.). I just do not trust any future government and neither should anyone else.
They've had the rotating presidency for 2 months, Hummelgaard has been mad that police can't see what immigrant teenagers are talking about on Whatsapp for years.
How would he like for his messages to be surveilled? The people pushing chat control conveniently leave out the detail that they decided to exempt themselves from this measure.
the word's not useless, it's just that its meaning has evolved to encompass pretty much all authoritarianism, rather than just a specific subset of it.
I agree, just like when maga or the broader far-right call literally everything "woke" or marxist that they disagree with to the point where they literally start losing their meaning.
Fascism is an ideology, as someone with Polish background I understand how important it is to acc use that word when necessary else it risks losing meaning and gravity and how truly harmful that ideology is, and how important it is to educate people on it's history and how humanity's prior actions had lead to such people come into power.
I personally dunno enough about the guy to know if he is or is not in fact a fascist, he's definitely orwellian, he may in fact be fascist, there's fascists everywhere, but just basing that purely off of his orwellian actions (again idk if that's purely what people based it off of) isn't accurate to what fascism fully encompasses or what his views may encompass.
Keir Starmer, as much as I hate him, who implemented the dystopian, orwellian online safety act and regularly uses the terrorism act to censor people's freedom of speech, and lock up pro-palestinians/anti-zionists, is for example despite that not in fact a fascist.
Same way how zionists linking anti-zionism to anti-semitism, no matter how untrue it is, undermines people who are in fact anti-semitic.
57 Comments
lurch@sh.itjust.works · 60 pts · 333d
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 14 pts · 333d
apparently nominally a member of a social-democratic party
When I was younger, I believed that social-democratic parties were better than conservative ones on matters of civil liberties. I stand corrected on that.
calmblue75@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 333d
It's more like people in power don't like civil liberties.
Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca · 16 pts · 333d
Maeve@kbin.earth · 10 pts · 332d
SocDem is still capitalist. Capitalist politicians answer to capital.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 332d
Yep. If you want to escape from surveillance and censorship, you've got to go to a communist country.
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 332d
The capitalist counties have proven that surveillance and censorship is more effective when you make it so subtle that a majority of their citizens are unaware that it's happening.
Zombie@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 332d
Where would that be?
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 332d
I was being sarcastic.
Valmond@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 332d
You forgot the /s
I guess, some people are deluded with communism.
SorteKanin@feddit.dk · 2 pts · 332d
As a dane: The social democratic party in Denmark has changed a lot in the last 10-20 years. It used to be much more left-leaning. Nowadays it's essentially a middle party. They adopted quite a few policies from the right wing (especially on the immigration area), in an attempt to keep the power basically, and it has worked immensely well, in the sense that many, many people have voted for them.
themurphy@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 332d
Just because the guy is a fucktard, doesnt mean the party is. And the other way around.
Politics is not a "team sport" and we should not treat it like that.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 11 pts · 332d
Parties choose whom to nominate as ministers.
I'm not a voter in Denmark and not familiar with Danish politics; this kind of thing would certainly cause me to vote for a different party.
themurphy@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 332d
Yeah, I think I swayed too much into a general critic of a way of thinking about politics.
I still agree with you, when it's a minister.
It's also worth to note that his party, even though their name, is a middle party now and no longer left.
There are plenty of parties better for the people than them right now.
SummerIsTooWarm@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 332d
Social democracy is the left wing of fascism
Valmond@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 332d
What a stupid take.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 328d
Historically and presently 100% accurate, cope
onlooker@lemmy.ml · 33 pts · 333d
Alternate title: Danish dipshit fails basic computer literacy test, somehow stumbles into a parliament position.
Also, if he's the chief architect, then this is what he's building:
quick_snail@feddit.nl · 13 pts · 332d
That just needs one CSS attribute to fix
lurch@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 331d
quick_snail@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 331d
Headline: careless website admin leaves dozens of families homeless, can't find house.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 2 pts · 332d
Ahh CSS! how I fucking...
Zerush@lemmy.ml · 32 pts · 333d
The consequence of Chat conttrol is a next step to open and control your post cards and any other privat correspondence with the same stupid argument of "security". Encrypted comunication exist for a good reason.
hector@lemmy.today · 28 pts · 333d
All of the west has had conservative aristocrats take over their mainstream parties, the only reform vote is the far right misdirecting anger from the plutocracy to immigrants and everything else.
Without getting a popular reform option fascists will seize the entire west with russia and the us helping behind the scenes, and fix elections like in hungary or however and we will not be able to get rid of them even as they get worse every cycle.
The western european countries will fall like dominoes with current leadership and lack thereof. We need to organize first, then find and groom real leaders, then take elections and direct anger to it's sources, the super rich.
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 332d
Just to be safe I want everyone to know that if this guy gets shot I would be reaally sad.
nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 332d
I'm sure there is somebody out there who thinks this guy is not fascist enough! This is all so absurd.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 1 pts · 332d
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 15 pts · 332d
Why do people not realize how unacceptable all that shit is?
I mean imagine in the old days before email someone said that they wanted to open all mail packages and examine the contents as well as make a copy of all letters sent, personal or professional, that were sent through the mail? People would have been right outraged. Is it that because somehow posting things on a cell phone or computer makes them feel... less real?
Also every fucking time I see shit like this I am reminded of an old comic from Mad Magazine... it featured a young office boy talking to the sleazy manager. He says 'hey, I heard you started out just like me, and now you're practically running the whole company, can you give me some advice?'
And he responds 'well, for starters... make sure you read EVERYONES personal letters.'
I was a young kid when I first saw it and I didn't understand. But now I fucking do.
crozilla@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 331d
Going through someone else’s mail upset people so much, they made it a felony. 😮
Tapionpoika@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 332d
"What’s with Denmark going MAGA-level? Here we go!”
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 332d
Hi fascist! I'm guillotine!
ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 332d
I miss the times when fascists were beaten with rocks.
DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 331d
ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 331d
Those are too quick
DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 331d
"you can't savor all the ... Little emotions" - The Dark Knight
Una@europe.pub · 7 pts · 333d
mrrrrreow meow :3
What if I go into politics and start mrrreow meow :3 in EU parliament?
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 332d
A vtuber catfolk politician? Might as well try it.
Una@europe.pub · 4 pts · 332d
Yay meow meow
sunbeam60@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 332d
Some context, which I’m sure will be downvoted because we don’t like chat control.
The Danes currently hold the rotating presidency for the council. As such they are required to be the architects of the council position, good initiatives and bad.
The EU holds countries that are against government access to chat services and countries that believe access should be routine and warrant-free.
The Danish “architect of chat control” is thus required, by EU law, to define a compromise position and see if that can be voted through in the council.
The compromise position is a combination of “scanning at source” using both known fingerprints and AI, with a warrant based access process for police sources.
As a compromise position that’s possible passable in parliament and council.
I personally think the whole thing the entire thing is unworkable in practice. But the Danes are getting involved because they have to.
herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml · 27 pts · 332d
He doesn't have to go to the press with authoritarian statements defending chat control. This is what he said:
"We must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone's civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services."
This is Putin-style authoritarianism coming from Peter Hummelgaard.
khannie@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 332d
How in the name of fuck anyone thinks they can prevent encryption is beyond me. That ship sailed 30 years ago. People who want it will find a way.
FrederikNJS@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 332d
The problem is that they don't have to prevent encryption at all...
Many governments are already recording and storing incredible amounts of your Internet traffic.
With this new legislation they want to require all companies, that offer some form of encrypted communication, to submit all the messages for scanning before they are encrypted. So they want to force Facebook and many others to actually intercept the messages before they get "end-to-end" encrypted, so they can get scanned by AI and other systems to look for CSAM.
Of course they can't prevent encryption... Anyone can get some encryption software that doesn't submit the messages to scanning before encrypting...
Now you as a person have the options of either using a platform that scans your messages, or finding something that actually offers privacy.
If the government then decides that they want to investigate you, then they just dig into their trove of intercepted messages. If you only used scanned services, then they can see all your messages and probably find something in them to prosecute you over. But if you used any encrypted services they don't have access to, then they can just start prosecuting you for using encryption that they can't spy on...
In either case you lose, and they gain the ability to practically put anyone they want behind bars.
And who knows who will wield these tools at a later point, and what they might decide should be illegal, which they can then immediately dig for in all their previously stored and scanned messages.
khannie@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 332d
Yeah the criminals will quickly find ways to avoid using services that scan client side is my main issue.
I'm technical enough that I can too if the time ever comes. I'm in the "nothing criminal to hide, but fuck you you're not seeing my texts anyway" camp.
History is so, so full of examples of this being abused by what were originally well intentioned motives (Jews in The Netherlands rounded up because of census information etc.). I just do not trust any future government and neither should anyone else.
Valmond@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 332d
Yeah what's next, microphones that listen to everything we say?
East Berlin and the STASI remembers.
yogurt@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 332d
They've had the rotating presidency for 2 months, Hummelgaard has been mad that police can't see what immigrant teenagers are talking about on Whatsapp for years.
Opisek@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 331d
How would he like for his messages to be surveilled? The people pushing chat control conveniently leave out the detail that they decided to exempt themselves from this measure.
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 333d
cipres@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 331d
If he ever needs a new job, the NSA will be happy to hire him.
AngryRobot@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 331d
It's literal fucking TrollTrace from South Park...
quick_snail@feddit.nl · 0 pts · 332d
Site doesn't load
Damage@feddit.it · -15 pts · 333d
He may be an asshole, but calling everyone you don't like a fascist is just going to make the word useless
Greddan@feddit.org · 21 pts · 333d
djsaskdja@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 332d
Misguided? Why are liberals always treated with kid gloves? Calling this guy a fascist does not seem out of bounds at all based on his policies.
rollin@piefed.social · 6 pts · 333d
the word's not useless, it's just that its meaning has evolved to encompass pretty much all authoritarianism, rather than just a specific subset of it.
Damage@feddit.it · 6 pts · 332d
Yeah, and we have the word authoritarianism for that
sircac@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 332d
Fascist is as fascist does
Damage@feddit.it · 2 pts · 332d
There you go, I'm Italian so my definition of fascism is Umberto Eco's, seems like this guy falls short a bit, we can use other words.
Charlxmagne@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 332d
I agree, just like when maga or the broader far-right call literally everything "woke" or marxist that they disagree with to the point where they literally start losing their meaning.
Fascism is an ideology, as someone with Polish background I understand how important it is to acc use that word when necessary else it risks losing meaning and gravity and how truly harmful that ideology is, and how important it is to educate people on it's history and how humanity's prior actions had lead to such people come into power.
I personally dunno enough about the guy to know if he is or is not in fact a fascist, he's definitely orwellian, he may in fact be fascist, there's fascists everywhere, but just basing that purely off of his orwellian actions (again idk if that's purely what people based it off of) isn't accurate to what fascism fully encompasses or what his views may encompass.
Keir Starmer, as much as I hate him, who implemented the dystopian, orwellian online safety act and regularly uses the terrorism act to censor people's freedom of speech, and lock up pro-palestinians/anti-zionists, is for example despite that not in fact a fascist.
Same way how zionists linking anti-zionism to anti-semitism, no matter how untrue it is, undermines people who are in fact anti-semitic.
Geometrinen_Gepardi@sopuli.xyz · -7 pts · 333d
Unfortunately people here are mostly incapable of having nuance.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 332d
Oh, the irony!