Committee leaders said in a statement the levy was needed to ensure all highway users “pay their share” as part of an effort to supplant the gas tax to help pay for transportation projects.
I would be ok with this, as $130-$150 a year is not astronomical and hypothetically would be going towards the public good, but with this administration, I don't think they will be putting any money into actually improving life for the general public.
If it were pitched as an excise tax for all motor vehicle owners: sure.
This is specifically targeted on EVs. It’s an attempt to make EVs slightly less appetizing to the general public. Remember who is in charge of the house at the moment.
I believe that it was def a handout to gas and auto companies, but there is not currently a way that EVs are contributing to the public roads in the same way as gas taxes, right?
Edit: Looks like some states do have an annual fee for EVs already.
Another response by states to backfill reductions in gas tax collections has been to implement a tax on EV charging stations. States like Georgia, Iowa, Kentucky, and Oklahoma impose a tax per kilowatt-hour distributed by charging stations. While this added user fee may help equalize treatment between combustion engines and EVs, because many users charge their EVs at home, these taxes can fail to fully account for EV road use.
The registration fees in your link are all annual registrations, not one-time events, which is in line with what I've experienced and heard about. In my state it's roughly equivalent to driving 15k miles/year in a 30 mpg average gas vehicle or 10k miles/year in a 20 mpg vehicle.
Are you talking about Vehicle Excise Duty? All cars pay that although at various rates, the more CO2/km attracts higher rates, going far above what the EVs pay.
The fuel tax is appropriate I think. Larger vehicles that do more damage typically use more fuel, get taxed more. Smaller vehicles that do less damage get taxed less. Driving more gets taxed more. I think we lean into it rather than away.
Quadruple the fuel tax, throw the proceeds toward building out the fast charger network, incentivizing solar charging at home through tax incentive programs, and expanding access to public transit options. All while phasing out fuel subsidies completely.
Fuel only wins right now because it's entrenched and subsidized. My buddy pays $6 worth of electricity to fully charge his electric subaru overnight. Removing the thumb on the scale toward fuel use will cause the electrification movement to cascade.
No it's not appropriate because we're driving to work to make a profit for our billionaire owners, so i have to buy a car pay the gas pay the maintenance eat the depreciation that i cannot deduct like a business and then on top of that i have to pay for the roads out of my salary too all so the owners can make more money tax free
I’m sympathetic to the argument that we replace the 18.5 cents per gallon federal tax with something EV drivers (myself included) still pay. But it should incentivize further EV adoption and not discourage it, and should somehow scale with miles driven (incentives fewer miles driven.)
You could do a mileage one based on odometer inspection with a check for tampering. Require it as part of an annual safety inspection. Would be non-intrusive and mostly work ok
What inspection? Nearly everything happens at the state level, if at all. The only ongoing task required from my state is plates/registration, which is just some minor paperwork, a sticker, and a fee. One that's already higher because of EVs. And I only have to do it every 5 years. There are no inspection facilities anywhere near here.
This fair share concept is crazy to me. The vast majority of road wear comes from Semi Trucks, to why doesn't anyone want them to pay their fair share?
If the funding comes from a federal fuel tax, then the higher per gallon tax on diesel (and the much higher fuel consumption that cargo trucks have) mean they actually do.
Just like a gas tank in your back yard would be, I assume.
How'd you get gas in your backyard tank without paying the tax? And if charging at home is tax free that just benefits the wealthier home owners more than that (probably less wealthy on average) renter.
I assumed it would be wholesale prices. I guess cracking and refining oil yourself, or brewing biofuel, would be the analogue to backyard solar or whatever.
Part of the point is that “home gas” for local commutes and such is hilariously impractical, whereas that’s not the case for EVs.
Farmers are able to get diesel fuel without paying the tax. It’s dyed red if I recall correctly. It wasn’t super uncommon for a farmer to get his truck inspected to make sure he wasn’t driving on the roadways with untaxed fuel.
I quite like that idea, but would worry that home charging would leave too much road maintenance unfunded. Maybe a combination of a low flat EV fee and your fast charger tax.
I dunno. Psychologically, buyers don’t like an upfront tax. It’s just how our monkey brains are.
…How about an EV tax proportional to vehicle mass, or maybe battery mass/capacity? With a cutoff for tiny, cheap EVs. This would tax commercial vehicles and ridiculous luxury EVs like the Hummer EV, but incentivize small EVs or plug in hybrids. And it “makes sense” because heavy, long range vehicles wear roads more.
Others pointed out its probably to replace the gas tax they won't be subject to. And I almost thought it was alright until I remembered most of our roads/infrastructure doesn't get repaired as it is.
Underfunded infrastructure isn't going to improve as a result of less tax though.
Unless there is a deliberate attempt to make EVs pay a lower share of road maintenance costs as part of a plan to increase uptake, with that lost funding collected elsewhere, you're just making roads worse by leaving the tax off.
I'm not sure fuel could ever be taxed high enough to repair the roads/infrastructure. We're talking hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in work needed. The US federal government is so far in debt that in the next decade the largest single expense will be paying interest on said debts.
The problem with fuel taxes is that they are effectively a consumption tax in the US. Sure you can do it but the general population is living paycheck to paycheck while the ultra wealthy can pull up plenty of money for about a trillion dollars in AI data centers.
Yeah that's probably the truth. People complain about shitty roads, so politicians try to increase the gas tax and people just vote no out of instinct. And then the loop just continues forever.
I already fucking pay an extra $225 a year for my EV tabs in Washington state, which ICE car drivers are completely exempt from paying. This is idiotic.
Also how would they even implement it? Federal government doesn't process car tab renewals..
I would agree with a yearly fee for electric vehicles. But it needs to be based off mileage not a static number.
The entire purpose of such a fee is to compensate for the lack of gas taxes going back into the ecosystem that ICE vehicles have.
for perspective, at 130$ a year an ICE vehicle would need 706.5 gallons of fuel a year to meet it, and 815.2 gallons of fuel a year for the ending $150 equivalent. Assuming a average 24 Miles/g for residential, that's roughly 16,956 miles for the 706 gallons, and 19564.8 Miles for the 815.2 gallons.
My car has not done more than 3k miles in the last 2 years as I don't need to drive much. realistically I should be paying closer to 11.50 a year or 23 for both. The fact I would be paying the same amount as someone who drives daily constantly is insane to me.
I can understand having taxes to pay for roads. What I want though, is to have my yearly 200$ dollar road tax fee from my state pro-rated for the amount of time that the gas tax is suspended. There is no fucking reason why EV drivers should be supplying all the public tax dollars for roads while brodozers and pavement princesses pay nothing to rip it up.
Everyone benefits from roads including people that don’t drive vehicles. Grocery stores get deliveries for example.
Just stop building them without adequate cheaper alternatives. Bike lanes should be a requirement. Save space for rail and bus, or take back some of the existing space.
Not really, as transit and bicycles are unaffected. Cars are the problem; EVs are only marginally less bad (maybe, depending on whose lobbyists are doing the math).
They're a lot better in terms of greenhouse gases and air pollution. Switching to EVs doesn't solve social problems or traffic in the way that getting people out of cars does.
I'd be fine with an equal tax on motor vehicles, with adjustments for value or mass. But putting a higher tax on electric ones is just a way to harm Americans
Driving is expensive, societally, and tailpipe emissions are only a small part of that harm. Cyclists and transit riders should not have to pay to subsidize cars murdering children and tearing down our cities to build parking lots. Drivers should have to pay. Shifting the cost of cars to drivers incentivizes drivers to stop driving to save money, which is the goal. We should continue to tax driving in all its forms until the cost of driving to individual drivers adds up to more than the cost of driving to the whole of society.
This perfect be the enemy of good is a relatively extreme part of the biking community. The "tailpipe emissions are only a small part of that harm" is a bit of a stretch to. I would argue its the largest part of that harm but not the only harm.
So would this override states that have enacted EV charges or would they be double taxed? Texas already charges $200 per year for the same reason. This would make it $330/yr and only drive about 5,000 miles a year.
It's a gift link. You can either enable JavaScript and turn off whatever might be removing the gift token from the URL, or use an archive site. 99% of people can just click it and see the article
85 Comments
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 85 pts · 113d
This is absolutely, completely pants-on-head idiotic.
So, par for the course for Congress.
SoupBrick@pawb.social · 31 pts · 112d
I would be ok with this, as $130-$150 a year is not astronomical and hypothetically would be going towards the public good, but with this administration, I don't think they will be putting any money into actually improving life for the general public.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 49 pts · 112d
If it were pitched as an excise tax for all motor vehicle owners: sure.
This is specifically targeted on EVs. It’s an attempt to make EVs slightly less appetizing to the general public. Remember who is in charge of the house at the moment.
SoupBrick@pawb.social · 12 pts · 112d
I believe that it was def a handout to gas and auto companies, but there is not currently a way that EVs are contributing to the public roads in the same way as gas taxes, right?
Edit: Looks like some states do have an annual fee for EVs already.
noodles@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 112d
Most states I know of have an EV tax already
SoupBrick@pawb.social · 7 pts · 112d
It looks like there is a charging tax in very few states, but it has problems.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/electric-vehicle-ev-taxes/
noodles@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 112d
The registration fees in your link are all annual registrations, not one-time events, which is in line with what I've experienced and heard about. In my state it's roughly equivalent to driving 15k miles/year in a 30 mpg average gas vehicle or 10k miles/year in a 20 mpg vehicle.
SoupBrick@pawb.social · 2 pts · 112d
Ah, my bad. Thanks!
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 112d
looks like they could try a nationwide tax on all people who EVs somehow.
ChicoSuave@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 112d
Par for a paid Congress. It wasn't like this and never was directly corrupt as the right has become.
flandish@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 112d
it’s been like this forever. just varying levels of “depth” of course, but yeah… congress has been purchasable since say 1776 or so.
Nollij@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 112d
Not idiotic. Malicious. They know exactly what they're doing on this.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 112d
UK is doing the same thing. Well over US$200/yr. Flat fee.
stsquad@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 112d
Are you talking about Vehicle Excise Duty? All cars pay that although at various rates, the more CO2/km attracts higher rates, going far above what the EVs pay.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 111d
Yes, VED...how much C02/km does an EV make?
apftwb@piefed.social · 61 pts · 112d
Fine. Remove the fuel tax and switch to a yearly car tax on all vehicles.
the_elder@midwest.social · 18 pts · 112d
The fuel tax is appropriate I think. Larger vehicles that do more damage typically use more fuel, get taxed more. Smaller vehicles that do less damage get taxed less. Driving more gets taxed more. I think we lean into it rather than away.
Quadruple the fuel tax, throw the proceeds toward building out the fast charger network, incentivizing solar charging at home through tax incentive programs, and expanding access to public transit options. All while phasing out fuel subsidies completely.
Fuel only wins right now because it's entrenched and subsidized. My buddy pays $6 worth of electricity to fully charge his electric subaru overnight. Removing the thumb on the scale toward fuel use will cause the electrification movement to cascade.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 19 pts · 112d
No it's not appropriate because we're driving to work to make a profit for our billionaire owners, so i have to buy a car pay the gas pay the maintenance eat the depreciation that i cannot deduct like a business and then on top of that i have to pay for the roads out of my salary too all so the owners can make more money tax free
BorgDrone@feddit.nl · 6 pts · 112d
Doesn’t the US have a road tax on vehicles?
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 112d
No. Just gasoline taxes that pay for roads and general taxes that pay for everything (including roads).
apftwb@piefed.social · 9 pts · 112d
Federally? No. At the state level it varies a lot.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 36 pts · 112d
heh. heh. heh. That will teach them for making sensible economic decisions!
eleijeep@piefed.social · 10 pts · 112d
The party of free market economics and small government.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 25 pts · 113d
I’m sympathetic to the argument that we replace the 18.5 cents per gallon federal tax with something EV drivers (myself included) still pay. But it should incentivize further EV adoption and not discourage it, and should somehow scale with miles driven (incentives fewer miles driven.)
reddig33@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 113d
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 113d
There a privacy implication for the tracking mileage I’m not thrilled with, and would support an opt-out but paying more than average system.
Gas tax is/was ingenious because it was not privacy invasive and scaled perfectly with use. But not applicable in the age of EVs.
silence7@slrpnk.net · 17 pts · 112d
You could do a mileage one based on odometer inspection with a check for tampering. Require it as part of an annual safety inspection. Would be non-intrusive and mostly work ok
compostgoblin@piefed.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 112d
Yeah, you have to renew your registration annually anyway. Just add a field for the odometer reading, and there you go.
Nollij@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 112d
What inspection? Nearly everything happens at the state level, if at all. The only ongoing task required from my state is plates/registration, which is just some minor paperwork, a sticker, and a fee. One that's already higher because of EVs. And I only have to do it every 5 years. There are no inspection facilities anywhere near here.
silence7@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 112d
About half the states require a regular inspection including an emissions test
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 112d
North America does not do any annual safety inspections.
entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 112d
True but most states doEdit: I was wrong, see replies
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 111d
14/50 states have annual inspections. 28% is not most, but please check my math.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States
entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 111d
Huh, cool. Thanks for the FYI
ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 112d
This fair share concept is crazy to me. The vast majority of road wear comes from Semi Trucks, to why doesn't anyone want them to pay their fair share?
sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 112d
If the funding comes from a federal fuel tax, then the higher per gallon tax on diesel (and the much higher fuel consumption that cargo trucks have) mean they actually do.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 112d
You must be in Europe. Vehicles in North America are not inspected. They drive until they fall apart.
ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 112d
As always, that depends on the state. Some states actually have mandatory safety/emissions testing every year.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 111d
14 of 50. US road safety is a joke, Canada is even worse.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 113d
How about an EV fast charger tax? Same as gas.
If you charge at home, it’s tax free. Just like a gas tank in your back yard would be, I assume.
I think Republicans would buy that too, as it’s still technically “EV negative” and not very visible to constituents (just like the gas tax).
fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 112d
How'd you get gas in your backyard tank without paying the tax? And if charging at home is tax free that just benefits the wealthier home owners more than that (probably less wealthy on average) renter.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 112d
I assumed it would be wholesale prices. I guess cracking and refining oil yourself, or brewing biofuel, would be the analogue to backyard solar or whatever.
Part of the point is that “home gas” for local commutes and such is hilariously impractical, whereas that’s not the case for EVs.
Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 112d
Farmers are able to get diesel fuel without paying the tax. It’s dyed red if I recall correctly. It wasn’t super uncommon for a farmer to get his truck inspected to make sure he wasn’t driving on the roadways with untaxed fuel.
Nollij@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 112d
Greasel (diesel-vegetable oil conversion) is a thing, albeit uncommon. That would probably be the closest analogue.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 112d
I quite like that idea, but would worry that home charging would leave too much road maintenance unfunded. Maybe a combination of a low flat EV fee and your fast charger tax.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 112d
I dunno. Psychologically, buyers don’t like an upfront tax. It’s just how our monkey brains are.
…How about an EV tax proportional to vehicle mass, or maybe battery mass/capacity? With a cutoff for tiny, cheap EVs. This would tax commercial vehicles and ridiculous luxury EVs like the Hummer EV, but incentivize small EVs or plug in hybrids. And it “makes sense” because heavy, long range vehicles wear roads more.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 112d
We like to subsidize heavy trucks with our money and our lives.
antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 112d
Tax the tires - those are a major source of pollution for EVs and gas autos alike.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 112d
Others pointed out its probably to replace the gas tax they won't be subject to. And I almost thought it was alright until I remembered most of our roads/infrastructure doesn't get repaired as it is.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 112d
The gas tax is far below what's needed for the roads
this_jury_is_hung@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 112d
Underfunded infrastructure isn't going to improve as a result of less tax though.
Unless there is a deliberate attempt to make EVs pay a lower share of road maintenance costs as part of a plan to increase uptake, with that lost funding collected elsewhere, you're just making roads worse by leaving the tax off.
Montagge@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 112d
Probably because people vote down any gas tax increase
Ohmmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 111d
I'm not sure fuel could ever be taxed high enough to repair the roads/infrastructure. We're talking hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in work needed. The US federal government is so far in debt that in the next decade the largest single expense will be paying interest on said debts.
The problem with fuel taxes is that they are effectively a consumption tax in the US. Sure you can do it but the general population is living paycheck to paycheck while the ultra wealthy can pull up plenty of money for about a trillion dollars in AI data centers.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 111d
Yeah that's probably the truth. People complain about shitty roads, so politicians try to increase the gas tax and people just vote no out of instinct. And then the loop just continues forever.
noxypaws@pawb.social · 22 pts · 112d
I already fucking pay an extra $225 a year for my EV tabs in Washington state, which ICE car drivers are completely exempt from paying. This is idiotic.
Also how would they even implement it? Federal government doesn't process car tab renewals..
Pika@sh.itjust.works · 20 pts · 112d
I would agree with a yearly fee for electric vehicles. But it needs to be based off mileage not a static number.
The entire purpose of such a fee is to compensate for the lack of gas taxes going back into the ecosystem that ICE vehicles have.
for perspective, at 130$ a year an ICE vehicle would need 706.5 gallons of fuel a year to meet it, and 815.2 gallons of fuel a year for the ending $150 equivalent. Assuming a average 24 Miles/g for residential, that's roughly 16,956 miles for the 706 gallons, and 19564.8 Miles for the 815.2 gallons.
My car has not done more than 3k miles in the last 2 years as I don't need to drive much. realistically I should be paying closer to 11.50 a year or 23 for both. The fact I would be paying the same amount as someone who drives daily constantly is insane to me.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 112d
The point is to discourage EVs. Not from tax revenue, but keep the bribes coming from oil and gas to politicians.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club · 9 pts · 112d
Don't states handle registration? Why is this a federal thing?
silence7@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 112d
Yes, but the federal government has access to those databases
bdonvr@thelemmy.club · 5 pts · 112d
Sure but a federal registration tax seems really weird. I'm not sure if there's a precedent for it
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 112d
Oil industry pays it. Final offer.
Tronn4@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 112d
GHIIIINYAAA PAYS FOR IT
BigTrout75@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 112d
That will stop this evil EV cars
Bytemeister@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 111d
I can understand having taxes to pay for roads. What I want though, is to have my yearly 200$ dollar road tax fee from my state pro-rated for the amount of time that the gas tax is suspended. There is no fucking reason why EV drivers should be supplying all the public tax dollars for roads while brodozers and pavement princesses pay nothing to rip it up.
piccolo@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 111d
Passengers vehicles, including 'brodozers' virtually dont wear roads unless they were built like shit. Its the 40 ton semis that destroy roads.
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 111d
Passenger vehicles do however make up the majority of traffic, requiring lights, calming measures and other mitigation.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 113d
Everyone benefits from roads including people that don’t drive vehicles. Grocery stores get deliveries for example.
Just stop building them without adequate cheaper alternatives. Bike lanes should be a requirement. Save space for rail and bus, or take back some of the existing space.
Yaky@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 112d
Only $130? Ohio has been taxing EVs (and PHEVs that still use gas!) $200/year for 5 or so years now.
sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 112d
Ohio is still part of the United States, so they'll still pay the state tax and then would add this new federal tax on top of that, too.
betanumerus@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 112d
ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 112d
Ah yes reducing gas tax is what we need to do, let's encourage more people to buy more gas
betanumerus@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 112d
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 111d
or hear me out....clean tax-free coal! mah RAM gets three shovels/50 miles.
rekabis@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 112d
I wonder if they’ll miss older ICE vehicles that have been converted.
Because I can totally see a mid-90s sedan going stealth on its electric conversion to avoid said tax.
CombatWombat@feddit.online · 2 pts · 113d
Hell yeah. Raise the gas tax by like 500% while you're at it. Make cars pay for roads.
silence7@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 113d
This Congress isn't doing that though; they're just out to make it hard to switch away from gas
CombatWombat@feddit.online · -1 pts · 113d
Not really, as transit and bicycles are unaffected. Cars are the problem; EVs are only marginally less bad (maybe, depending on whose lobbyists are doing the math).
silence7@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 112d
They're a lot better in terms of greenhouse gases and air pollution. Switching to EVs doesn't solve social problems or traffic in the way that getting people out of cars does.
I'd be fine with an equal tax on motor vehicles, with adjustments for value or mass. But putting a higher tax on electric ones is just a way to harm Americans
CombatWombat@feddit.online · 3 pts · 112d
Driving is expensive, societally, and tailpipe emissions are only a small part of that harm. Cyclists and transit riders should not have to pay to subsidize cars murdering children and tearing down our cities to build parking lots. Drivers should have to pay. Shifting the cost of cars to drivers incentivizes drivers to stop driving to save money, which is the goal. We should continue to tax driving in all its forms until the cost of driving to individual drivers adds up to more than the cost of driving to the whole of society.
silence7@slrpnk.net · 6 pts · 112d
That's fine, but to disproportionately tax electric ones doesn't achieve those benefits; it just increases the amount of pollution
HubertManne@piefed.social · 3 pts · 112d
This perfect be the enemy of good is a relatively extreme part of the biking community. The "tailpipe emissions are only a small part of that harm" is a bit of a stretch to. I would argue its the largest part of that harm but not the only harm.
CombatWombat@feddit.online · 1 pts · 112d
Not if you raise the gas tax by 500% while you're at it 🤷♂️
ramble81@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 112d
So would this override states that have enacted EV charges or would they be double taxed? Texas already charges $200 per year for the same reason. This would make it $330/yr and only drive about 5,000 miles a year.
quickenparalysespunk@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 111d
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 112d
Paywalled source
silence7@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 112d
It's a gift link. You can either enable JavaScript and turn off whatever might be removing the gift token from the URL, or use an archive site. 99% of people can just click it and see the article