This is the thing imo. Come in under “ban ghost guns” but 10 years from now you try to print a new battery door for your remote and get blocked because the design is the property of Samsung.
Fuck Bambu and co, I’ll keep my voron around as long as humanly possible
It’s more about protecting companies like Disney, Nintendo, etc, not replacement parts. 3D printing is rife with copyright infringement, and companies like those would absolutely love a way to block their IP from being printed, or to be able to sue those who do it.
..and this is why roght to repair laws need to be enforced heavily. If your stupid joystick is broken on purpose so you can squeeze $100 out of me every 6 months, i have a right and duty to correct it for myself and anyone who asks.
(But fr tho stop buying nintendo products. They absolutely arent worth the moral weight and consumer disrespect. Pokemon is an incredibly lazy rpg design meant to sell toys)
Hate or love Nintendo, you gotta admit Mario Odyssey was a fucking good game; but I'm a sucker for 3D platformers. Personally, I hate Nintendo, but love Mario and Zelda and such, so it's a complicated relationship for me. Like sleeping with your toxic ex every couple of years and then remembering why you left them.
it was absolutely not, it was a mindless collectathon at best. why are there 700 moons in it but almost none are an actual challenge to get? a video delving deeper into it: https://youtu.be/1X6D39Cd34k?t=3979 (i recommend watching the whole thing (and the previous one https://youtu.be/jQIHqkudgNY) but the timestamp is for mario speciafically)
Okay but is one very mid game with decent movement worth the consumer rights violations, palworld legal case, shut down of fan-run tornaments, extremely terrible very bad peer-to-peer internet connection, releasing the exact same console but worse but slightly better... I could go on?
BotW/ToTK was a fun game too, but youll never catch me buying it or a nintendo switch ever.
No, it doesn't justify any of those things; that's why I used the toxic ex analogy. A really terrible company can also make really good games, those are two separate variables. My actual ex took the Switch, and I haven't bought another, but I am sorely tempted by Donkey Kong Bananza. It's pretty low on my priorities though, there's plenty of Steam games to keep me entertained
The way I see it, a person can print a company's IP as long as they're not trying to sell it.
What are they going to do, sue me for drawing a picture of mario or making kirby out of clay? Printing for personal use is the same concept.
I could see them going after 3D model designers who post stls of their IP. Personally I think if they're not selling it then it shouldn't be an issue, but I don't think the companies would see it that way, and I don't know exactly where the law stands on it.
This is why they can't simply pass IP laws, but they're sneaking it in with the pretense of "protecting the children" (when most school shootings happen with guns that were legally obtained by the shooter or their parents...)
Yeah, I don’t see how this is a problem. I mean people make all kinds of things without 3D printing. Think of a Star Wars stormtrooper set of armor. People have been making those for decades, and selling them, before 3D printers took over some of the work. I’m sure IP is part of the reason companies want to regulate 3D printing, but I’d also be willing to bet that they want to do the same shit they always do - insert themselves in the middle and force you to pay for designs. Whether it’s a Mario bros. minifig or a replacement knob for your clothes dryer.
I already have a modest library of stls on the nvme ssd in my linux laptop, and they can pry those out of my cold dead fingers, along with my 3D printer that works without an internet connection and I will never connect it to the internet or upgrade its firmware.
I'm like racing to purchase all the tech I might need in the next decade or so before they make it impossible to find non-userlocked hardware without a bunch of obligatory backdoors. It sucks because everything is just so unnecessarily expensive now. I wish I had started sooner but I thought I was being financially responsible at the time by not splurging...
Like I have a DMR and an SDR, a raspberry pi, a few different MCUs, some FPGAs and CPLDs, a collection of various electronic components, rechargeable batteries of various kinds, a couple powerbanks and a portable 30W solar panel. A logic probe, multimeter, gauss meter. A kit for an oscilloscope that I haven't built yet.
Next I want to build a homelab, I'm already working on collecting the things I need for that. I also want to get a higher capacity power bank and a 100W portable solar panel. I want to get a weather station, air quality sensor, geiger counter, etc. I just can't purchase it all at once.
Meanwhile I also need to install all the software packages I would need, or at least download their package builds so I can install them when I need to. I want to make an archive of several different linux ISOs, a library of game assets from itch.io, etc., as many kiwix libraries as possible, etc. etc. etc.
I have this nagging feeling that the downfall of modern society, supply chains, the classic internet infrastructure, etc., is right around the corner, and it feels like a race against time to prepare everything I would need to establish my own little intranet "island" that I could later mesh with others when the time comes. Which also means learning cybersecurity. Sigh...
One person making a Star Wars set of Armor for themself isn’t a worry for Disney.
That person posting the STLs on the internet, allowing millions of other people to make them too, many of who will try and sell the designs and/or finished product, is a worry for Disney.
That’s the beauty of 3d printing, but it’s the thing that IP holders hate - and the IP holders with deep pockets can and do influence legislators.
Don’t for one second think I’m defending these laws and the dolts making them. To them, being able to control what you can print in the first place is 10000000x more powerful than trying to sue everyone that sells them.
mine the older 2.1 design and scratch built. Hard to say because a lot of parts were grabbed from other projects
If I were starting today I’d just get a kit. The LDO kit is the standard and high quality but pricier.~1500 for 350mm. There’s the formbot kit as well, much cheaper (~800 for 350mm) but not as nice quality wise. Never used one of these kits but that’s the general sentiment on the forums now. West3d also has a kit builder, this is def the most expensive option but if you plan to install a bunch of mods this can save you some money buy bundling them at the beginning (but honestly if you’ve never built one before I’d start with the vanilla build)
Time wise it’s not too bad, sort of. I would say if you’re a tinkerer type person you could build it in a weekend, especially with a kit. However, you may spend quite a bit more time calibrating everything. Like the time from a box of shit to actually printing isn’t terrible, but the time to getting a beautiful dimensionally accurate print is potentially a bit more involved, especially before you get it printing fast (if you pursue such a thing)
That’s honestly the primary reason Bambu is destroying in terms of sales right now (plus aggressive marketing). They are shit bc they are consumer hostile, but they do make good equipment. You can get a solid print right from the first startup. You can with voron too tbf but it’s like comparing an iphone to desktop Linux: the former is easier to setup and has a lot of slick features for use, the latter can replicate almost all of them but takes a bit more time to get going (and because it’s open design can be taken much further once you get the hang of it, vorons can get amazing quality at incredibly fast speeds though tbf some of those mods to get truly fast can be pricy)
Alternatively look on their discord or somewhere like Craigslist/facebook marketplace. I see people sell LDO builds for like 6-900 a lot. Resale is tough because once built it’s a nightmare to ship so they drop value like crazy and then you can (hopefully) get one that’s at least printing decently
I got gifted a Bambu P1S a few years ago, but customization is pretty limited.
I like the idea of the Voron and it's upgradability but the initial time investment was really high for me.
Thanks for sharing your information. I am a tinkering person, so I don't feel lost when doing projects like that, but since I am in Canada, sourcing parts was terrible when I looked a few years ago. The LDO kits seem pricy, but I will look for alternatives. But at least, the option's there.
FWIW from what I’ve read the formbot kit seems to be pretty serviceable, almost 50% less and is still pretty good, though by most accounts I’ve seen the LDO kit is objectively better (for a significant premium)
Feels like people casually mocking car registration by pointing to the Hot Rod from Home Improvement.
I mean, sure. It can be done. But I failed to install a water cooling kit in my computer after a very long and harrowing weekend. I'm not fucking with this.
It more like mocking car registration because every neighborhood has a few people who can build you a car from scratch in a day, the city already has several thousand car factories that don't require registration, there's no mechanism to enforce registration, and the cost of building a new car is a few hundred dollars. The motivation for requiring registration is also to stop people from driving full speed into fast food restaurants is custom built murder buggys. Yeah, you don't want people to do that but it's not like it really happens all that often.
Building a 3d printer from a kit is different from building one from scratch. It's basically screwing parts together and plugging colored wires into matching slots.
every neighborhood has a few people who can build you a car from scratch in a day
How many cars does the city demand be produced each day? Cause my own city of Houston sees over 380k new cars sold annually.
the city already has several thousand car factories that don’t require registration
Itty bitty ones, sure. And they take weeks to produce a working vehicle, of substandard quality.
there’s no mechanism to enforce registration
Until you get pulled over
the cost of building a new car is a few hundred dollars
A plastic car that can go maybe a few hundred miles before falling apart if it's made perfectly.
Building a 3d printer from a kit is different from building one from scratch
You can build cars from a kit, too. But I'm not going to do that when I can buy a used Corolla or KIA for couch cushion money and drive it into the ground over the next fifteen years.
I'm not sure honestly sure what your point is, because you went a bit too far with the analogy.
Itty bitty ones, sure. And they take weeks to produce a working vehicle, of substandard quality.
This was about regulating 3d printers, not guns. A diy printer, a new drm printer and an old not-drm printer produce the same quality output.
A diy 3d printer is just as durable as a purchased one.
If your goal is to have an unregistered car, or in this case a drm free printer, the law seems silly when you can get one for cheaper than the "proper" one and have it out together in an afternoon if you have highschool level mechanical aptitude.
Okay? What does that have to do with the drm mandate being easy to get around?
Is your point that it's okay to put unenforceable, easily bypassed restrictions on stuff if you think they're bad?
You'd think with a title that says "California just passed a law", that it would actually be about California passing a law. It still has to go through the senate and then get signed by the governor.
Edit: The bill was passed in the Assembly back in May. This is a nearly 3 month old article.
it's enforced by stopping most people from trying to get into making 3d printer software. Imagine if california made browser drm required: no more open source browsers
Imagine if california made browser drm required: no more open source browsers
Why would that be the case? If I'm a programmer in New York, or Germany, why do I care if my open-source browser meets California's requirements? If there's any chance of litigation, can't you just slap "not for use in California" on it and call it a day?
Say the entire country of America bans 3d printers without DRM, why would a German 3D printing enthusiast stop developing their firmware?
Note that I'm not saying these bans aren't bad. They certainly can and will cause harm to the community as a whole. But I don't see the argument of, "if it gets banned in x place, it goes away forever, for everyone". There are thousands of projects that are already illegal and exist without issue online. Piracy is illegal but still easily doable, it's already illegal in several states to 3D print certain gun parts but people still create the files and print them out.
If that hobbyist is okay with it not being hosted on github or any other american infrastructure sure. And they have to hope EU laws dont follow suit. When GDPR passed, California adopted similar legislation. Why cant it happen in the reverse exactly? Its not like the EU wants 3d printed guns around. How will they be increasing gdp spend on defense if they allow their citizens to arm themselves cheaply and outside the authority of the state?
I’d love to know how they expect printer manufacturers to do this, given all they do is read gcode. Do the legislation makers even know what a slicer is?
I went to a CA committee hearing (and I got to meet Louis Rossmann in the process) and I guarantee you the people supporting this bill and the committee voting on it generally have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
Serious question: why do they feel like they are qualified to make decisions on it then? Like if I was in that position, I would defer to an expert committee or professional association.
What happens is they do defer to the expert. The expert is a plant by which ever lobbiest chose to sponsor the bill. I'm had correspondences with my government about fields I am intimately familiar with and their arguments about technical feasibility were given to them by their Big4 "expert". The problem is I know the field well enough to understand their expert is simply giving the opinion they were paid to give and the technical feasibility of the proposals take a back seat to the political desire of the people pushing the proposal.
If it ever take forms, it will be absolutely unenforceable with how many devices currently operates. Aside from a ban on open hardware (good luck with that), nothing will happen.
Unfortunately, being technically impossible to enforce is of little consequence. It just becomes a convenient law to pull out if they want to hammer you down and you happen to have a 3D printer that don't have this built-in.
The standards will not mandate perfect efficacy – they will allow for “an acceptably low level of evasion” against a bank of identified design files.
They've just admitted that it won't work. It will rely on a bank of banned designs which means anyone can just modify them until the algorithm doesn't recognize it as such while still being functional or simply make their own designs. Whoever finds a way to evade those restrictions will pass on the word.
Sucks that this will act as a push to lock down 3D printer firmware for everyone else though. Mass enshitification inbound. The only hope I see is that 3D printer manufacturers will simply get out of California as a result instead because the expense of developing such an algorithm and the risk of fines if it is not performing well enough are too great to be worth it.
Any such algorithm would be patched out of a jailbroken version of the firmware in minutes. 3D printers are already running on FOSS, so this is worse than useless. Anyone who wants to print a working gun will be able to do so trivially.
I don't think they know what it's designed to stop. Seems like this is pretty clearly just a piece of conspicuous legislation passed just to make it look like they're actually doing something.
There's pedophiles roaming the streets and no one can afford healthcare or housing but yeah, lets make useless laws to try and regulate 3d printers....
Then why did you bring other crimes up? Sorry. But you have no idea how you sound. You directly said "there are these crimes, why are we wasting laws on these other crimes" and wonder why I responded as I did.
You don't know it's impossible. That's just insane to think that recognition software can tell that a person's seatbelt is on if that there is someone at their front door with a package or a bicycle means it's likely possible.
It literally is impossible. The only thing going to a 3d printer is a series of commands to the the various stepper motors and heating elements what to do. It would have to be capable of reversing this code to reconstruct the object being printed. A printer is not going to have enough processing power to do this if it's even possible at all.
My point was their priorities are completely out of wack, and also that this law is useless and shows that they have no idea how 3d printers work so they are wasting time on this to do literally zero good. If the concern is around preventing crime, this is not the way to do it.
That's why I'm here commenting about it for free on the internet instead of being paid to prioritize things that actually matter over ineffective bullshit.
Except nobody is being prosecuted for this, in fact the only person that sits in prison, got moved to minimum security one and a pardon is being considered for her.
Senate just appointed the very person directly responsible for it to head the Department of Justice.
We are literally being run by pedophiles, or pedophile protectors at best and it couldn't be any clearer that there are two justice systems.
When the UH CEO was killed with 3D printed gun I remember being puzzled why trump, trump jr, musk and other members of the Epstein class became vocal about this, to me it seemed like a random murder. Now I understand that to them it was significant because member of their class was killed, this is also why musk was wearing his son as armor, because they were genuinely scared that their class war was firing back.
Whataboutism at it's finest. Two crimes can happen at the same time. Just because one crime "matters" and the others don't according to you, doesn't mean that they both shouldn't be enforced or examined.
OP why are you posting a 3 month old article with no updated information or that needed context that this was in the past? There was a discussion then.
It's almost like you are trying to upset people again for sport, because reddit broke your brain and you think internet points are important. Almost like that.
The software might be complicated enough in the future that you would not be able to just make your own slicer with all the features, like we have with browsers now.
One of the most common uses for 3d printers is for cosplay props. I wonder if the lawmakers considered how this infringes on the rights of people trying to print prop guns from their favorite video games or anime?
California needs to start pushing laws to shut down hardware stores, department stores, shopping malls, and office supply stores since you can buy things in those places to also create makeshift weapons.
I have a mini mill in my garage. I makeb ghost firearms as a hobby.
I have a bit of experience with a mill, but even if I *didn't * these are not hard skills to learn yourself. A couple hundred bucks for a mini mill on marketplace and a few hunted bucks for a blank and some tooling and anybody could be making ghost guns in their living room.
Idiots who don't understand any industry other than public service, being useful idiots for the oligarchs that run the mega corps of the 5th largest economy in the world.
The first thing they need to add to their DRM thing is those flexible dragons that have taken over half the booths at a local comic con. That and The Rock's head.
For a first print, yeah. This is more me bitching about the artist alley of all my local cons being filled with 3D printed garbage than it is an endorsement of terrible DRM practices.
No really what it is is it's what people want it's what people like it's what people enjoy so of course they're being made. You have to remember only a small percentage of people own 3D printers but a lot of people really like the stuff that's made from 3D printers. So they're not being marketed towards you they're being marketed towards everybody else. And they sell really well.
This was a conversation about artist's alley which is for, you know, art. Not kitsch slop. And no, the world really doesn't have a place for more useless plastic garbage.
Very few. The ATF's definition of "ghost gun" also includes ordinary firearms that have had the serial number filed off (which is a crime to do). The vast majority of crimes committed with "ghost guns" are committed with those; ordinary guns with the serial numbers scratched off
The standards will not mandate perfect efficacy – they will allow for “an acceptably low level of evasion” against a bank of identified design files.
So they except this is basically an impossible task. Essentially they're just going to check that the algorithm can detect the test examples, and then anything beyond that is an acceptably low level of evasion apparently.
In the same way you can buy all the stuff to make a bomb without ending up on a list, but if you do it the stupid way you're going to get the SWAT team at your door.
The 3d printer firmware is bullshit outright IMO, but this seems like the most sober-minded attempt. NY's law on the other hand is a fat lol
Anyone who was a serious threat is by definition not going to do it the stupid way anybody who gets swatted is an idiot and probably wasn't a threat to begin with, except to themselves.
It's already illegal to shoot people so why is it more illegal to shoot people with a plastic gun?
I agree, yet people get caught. This makes simply authorizes that, which I'm not inherently against. All I'm saying is, of all the things in the world, this isn't the absolute worst thing that could happen and at least it isn't (currently) being used by that state as a pretext for even more surveillance.
It isn't more illegal to shoot people with a plastic gun; if anything it's less illegal because you don't need to lie on a form about your status to obtain a gun.
I think your arguing with what you think I'm saying instead if what I actually said. I believe we're in agreement with different nuanced takes that affect that agreement. I agree this is dumb and a bad precedent that will likely be ineffective (just like virtually all other punitive preventative measures). I still think it could be worse.
TL; DR: this law to me feels more along the lines of "let's stop giving away guns at candy shops" than "let's completely fix everything all at once"
It's sober minded and an attempt at appeasing their constituency. I disagree with it, but it could be worse and probably won't hurt.
DIY 3D printers aren't that difficult. It's just two or three motors, a motion controller and a hot nozzle for most plastic printing. Replace the hot nozzle with a really epic laser for metal parts or possibly a stick welder. Even better with lithographic printing minus the really toxic fumes of the material. Take a really bright high resolution screen or maybe a projector and one motor and you got yourself a lithographic printer. Are you going to compete directly with cutting edge printers? Probably not. Will you still be able to make shit that works? Most likely after some tinkering.
Haha yeah. I think they know it isn't possible. Just trying to ban people from having guns one way or another. Disarm the cops and the other Nazis and then we can talk about mine.
In the short term i think people will just drive out of state, like they already do for actual guns. CA gun laws are aimed at the working class, thanks Reagan.
Criminals have easy access to real guns, they won't bother with printing plastic ones. A terrorist will just go to a place where they don't monitor to print them.
Of course this is not something a rag like the register and a fraudulent "Cybersecurity reporter" Connor Jones would tell you, but instead trying to actively hide from you. Even thought the evidence is right there. They'd rather tell you some stupid story.
This is yet another mad plutocrat meddling in democracy and neoliberalism and pundits providing some nonsense explanation to distract people.
I friggin hate this authoritarian shit. And California no less. Sounds like some civil disobedience is called for.
Like what if I want to print a play gun for cosplay? Sorry, you live in a free country. Go buy a real one instead. And worse, someone might want to print a shape very similar to a gun but completely unrelated. Nope.
This is so stupid. This is written by people who don’t understand 3D printing. This will catch nothing but fake guns that don’t work because they were printed in one solid piece, it won’t catch all the little pieces that you assemble afterwards.
There are devices now that have a SoC that's completely locked down at the factory, although maybe none are 3D printers. It deserves more attention as the massive threat to digital freedom that it is.
It's more that identifying a gun from a million other vaguely gun-like shapes, as well as completely non-gunlike shapes that are in fact guns... It's an insane question to expect any software to solve, even an AI with a whole datacenter devoted to this one problem wouldn't even begin to approach solving it.
No, most people realize that it’s a nonsense argument based off a couple action movies. Same reason they banned butterfly knives and nunchucks in many states despite the fact that you can have any other knife and say a lock in a sock. It’s hype based pearl clutching. Why sneak a pos plastic gun through a metal detector when the better option that is already used is to wait for the target outside, or to just run in guns blazing? The whole concept of “ghost guns” is the same way. Criminals already are not getting tracked down by serial numbers. Even without the 2A arguments though, this is a stupid thing to put on 3d printers.
3D printed guns do not "get past metal detectors." This is not nuance. It's not a matter of techicalities. You just told a bold faced lie, and you did it speficially to try to fear monger.
Printed guns still require metal springs, metal pins, metal bolts, metal barrels, and metal ammunition.
Printing a gun without a license can be and likely is currently illegal. You can just use traditional manufacturing methods to do the same thing anyways. It's not rocket science. The issue is the control over people to maybe prevent them from doing what you're saying. We could install cameras in everyone's house to make super sure they're not breaking any laws. I think you now see the problem. More control, more safety, less freedom. At the end of the day there's a simple way around any of these control measures and all we're doing is giving up freedom for nothing.
I'll have to double check this.. usually weapons manufacturing is pretty well controlled. Then again there's always a way. Like no one thought that fertilizer sales should be monitored until the Unabomber.
The US it is federally legal to manufacture your own firearm. There are some state level restrictions depending on which one of those you're in. In the rest of the world it's probably considerably more regulated, but then again in the rest of the world it'll be tougher to get your hands on the all the other parts you'd need as well.
Good, means less lunatics waving around guns. No objection here.
To the people bitching, it's a moot point when you can buy a gun at virtually every wallmart in the country.
But this type of law is the exact same as the age verification laws.
There's a plausible sounding risk, but if you dig deeper it's always the government reducing freedoms in a way that doesn't really help the stated goals.
325 3d printed guns were seized in 2024. That's a drop in the ocean.
They sell it as wanting to protect children, but what they really want is to be able to track everything you do on your device, because the verification will happen at the OS level.
It's something that sounds sensible at first. Of course it would be great to be able to prevent children from going certain places online and interacting with predators.
But what's actually happening is everyone is sacrificing their right to privacy for pretty much nothing, because anyone determined enough can get around any safety measure. And both kids and criminals excel at creativity getting around blocks.
Not to mention that a lot of the verification happens through private companies, who shouldn't be trusted with it.
This is stupid easy to bypass plus you still need metal parts to make it work
Guns are actually really easy to make and can be assembled from parts found at a local hardware store. If you want something fancier you could even mill a gun out of metal
Yeah but a right wing incel maniac trying to get a gun to go blow away a high school isn't going to know how to mill his own gun. He might download one and use his father's 3D printer to make one.
Because mass surveillance is bad? I don't want my printer to send everything I print to private companies
Even if you are somehow ok with the surveillance, there are still issues with copywrite. I'm pretty sure it would be pretty easy for some large company to seal ideas or to prevent you from making replacement parts for stuff that you bought and paid for
Because mass surveillance is bad? I don’t want my printer to send everything I print to private companies
I am ok with someone not being able to print out a gun and then blow people away with it.
And if mass surveillance bothers you, then you should get rid of your cell phone.
Also, private companies already have every bit of information about you. How do you think Google and Facebook and Twitter make their money?
Even if you are somehow ok with the surveillance, there are still issues with copywrite. I’m pretty sure it would be pretty easy for some large company to seal ideas or to prevent you from making replacement parts for stuff that you bought and paid for
Yeah but not everything I leagally buy and pay for can be used to murder people. For example, if I print out a battery cover for my remote control I then cannot go to a hotel room in Las Vegas and massacre 50 people at a country music festival with it.
not much more difficult to make a much more effective gun out of stock metal (or so I've heard), but they don't mandate government surveillance on the personal property of every person who owns a welding torch
That kind of metal working? Just to make a dogshit pipe gun that is mostly likely unsafe for the user too? Really doesn't require a ton of skill. Probably more than using a user friendly 3D printer but probably less than a fiddly one.
Making a full on machine gun is literally one of the original cottage industries. They're hard to design but the actual fabrication can be so dumbed down that you can make it out of non un-common household tools with minimal skill.
Some of the tricky bits are making the weapon fire slower, so it doesn't jam or get so hot rounds fire before they're actually in the chamber. Or just keeps firing because releasing the trigger wasn't enough to keep the recoil from keeping it going.
If your goal is to give everyone in the UK too young, old or woman to draft a machine gun to make the Germans regret invading, then a horde of cockney 8 year olds with uncontrolled machine guns and poor trigger discipline is certainly a choice.
224 Comments
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 237 pts · 2d
They're using weapon printing as the wedge, but this is really about protecting all manufacturers.
ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 157 pts · 2d
This is the thing imo. Come in under “ban ghost guns” but 10 years from now you try to print a new battery door for your remote and get blocked because the design is the property of Samsung.
Fuck Bambu and co, I’ll keep my voron around as long as humanly possible
LilBobbyTables@lemmy.today · 37 pts · 1d
It’s more about protecting companies like Disney, Nintendo, etc, not replacement parts. 3D printing is rife with copyright infringement, and companies like those would absolutely love a way to block their IP from being printed, or to be able to sue those who do it.
Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world · 54 pts · 1d
..and this is why roght to repair laws need to be enforced heavily. If your stupid joystick is broken on purpose so you can squeeze $100 out of me every 6 months, i have a right and duty to correct it for myself and anyone who asks.
(But fr tho stop buying nintendo products. They absolutely arent worth the moral weight and consumer disrespect. Pokemon is an incredibly lazy rpg design meant to sell toys)
Zarobi@aussie.zone · -11 pts · 1d
Hate or love Nintendo, you gotta admit Mario Odyssey was a fucking good game; but I'm a sucker for 3D platformers. Personally, I hate Nintendo, but love Mario and Zelda and such, so it's a complicated relationship for me. Like sleeping with your toxic ex every couple of years and then remembering why you left them.
bad1080@piefed.social · 6 pts · 1d
it was absolutely not, it was a mindless collectathon at best. why are there 700 moons in it but almost none are an actual challenge to get? a video delving deeper into it: https://youtu.be/1X6D39Cd34k?t=3979 (i recommend watching the whole thing (and the previous one https://youtu.be/jQIHqkudgNY) but the timestamp is for mario speciafically)
Zarobi@aussie.zone · -4 pts · 1d
Nuh-uh, it so to was a good game
bad1080@piefed.social · 6 pts · 1d
i mean if you put it like that...
BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 12h
Read the room buddy
Zarobi@aussie.zone · 0 pts · 5h
Meh, half my comments end up negative anyway. I don't give a fuck anymore
Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Okay but is one very mid game with decent movement worth the consumer rights violations, palworld legal case, shut down of fan-run tornaments, extremely terrible very bad peer-to-peer internet connection, releasing the exact same console but worse but slightly better... I could go on?
BotW/ToTK was a fun game too, but youll never catch me buying it or a nintendo switch ever.
Zarobi@aussie.zone · -1 pts · 1d
No, it doesn't justify any of those things; that's why I used the toxic ex analogy. A really terrible company can also make really good games, those are two separate variables. My actual ex took the Switch, and I haven't bought another, but I am sorely tempted by Donkey Kong Bananza. It's pretty low on my priorities though, there's plenty of Steam games to keep me entertained
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 16 pts · 1d
The way I see it, a person can print a company's IP as long as they're not trying to sell it.
What are they going to do, sue me for drawing a picture of mario or making kirby out of clay? Printing for personal use is the same concept.
I could see them going after 3D model designers who post stls of their IP. Personally I think if they're not selling it then it shouldn't be an issue, but I don't think the companies would see it that way, and I don't know exactly where the law stands on it.
This is why they can't simply pass IP laws, but they're sneaking it in with the pretense of "protecting the children" (when most school shootings happen with guns that were legally obtained by the shooter or their parents...)
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Yeah, I don’t see how this is a problem. I mean people make all kinds of things without 3D printing. Think of a Star Wars stormtrooper set of armor. People have been making those for decades, and selling them, before 3D printers took over some of the work. I’m sure IP is part of the reason companies want to regulate 3D printing, but I’d also be willing to bet that they want to do the same shit they always do - insert themselves in the middle and force you to pay for designs. Whether it’s a Mario bros. minifig or a replacement knob for your clothes dryer.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 1d
I already have a modest library of stls on the nvme ssd in my linux laptop, and they can pry those out of my cold dead fingers, along with my 3D printer that works without an internet connection and I will never connect it to the internet or upgrade its firmware.
I'm like racing to purchase all the tech I might need in the next decade or so before they make it impossible to find non-userlocked hardware without a bunch of obligatory backdoors. It sucks because everything is just so unnecessarily expensive now. I wish I had started sooner but I thought I was being financially responsible at the time by not splurging...
Like I have a DMR and an SDR, a raspberry pi, a few different MCUs, some FPGAs and CPLDs, a collection of various electronic components, rechargeable batteries of various kinds, a couple powerbanks and a portable 30W solar panel. A logic probe, multimeter, gauss meter. A kit for an oscilloscope that I haven't built yet.
Next I want to build a homelab, I'm already working on collecting the things I need for that. I also want to get a higher capacity power bank and a 100W portable solar panel. I want to get a weather station, air quality sensor, geiger counter, etc. I just can't purchase it all at once.
Meanwhile I also need to install all the software packages I would need, or at least download their package builds so I can install them when I need to. I want to make an archive of several different linux ISOs, a library of game assets from itch.io, etc., as many kiwix libraries as possible, etc. etc. etc.
I have this nagging feeling that the downfall of modern society, supply chains, the classic internet infrastructure, etc., is right around the corner, and it feels like a race against time to prepare everything I would need to establish my own little intranet "island" that I could later mesh with others when the time comes. Which also means learning cybersecurity. Sigh...
LilBobbyTables@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 1d
One person making a Star Wars set of Armor for themself isn’t a worry for Disney.
That person posting the STLs on the internet, allowing millions of other people to make them too, many of who will try and sell the designs and/or finished product, is a worry for Disney.
That’s the beauty of 3d printing, but it’s the thing that IP holders hate - and the IP holders with deep pockets can and do influence legislators.
LilBobbyTables@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 1d
They do try and sell it though, that’s the problem.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 1d
Then they should go after the commercial use of unlicensed intellectual property, not the ownership of a 3D printer...
LilBobbyTables@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 1d
Don’t for one second think I’m defending these laws and the dolts making them. To them, being able to control what you can print in the first place is 10000000x more powerful than trying to sue everyone that sells them.
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com · 1 pts · 1d
There is a single light of science and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere.
Croquette@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
How long was building your voron? And how much did it cost you?
I would like to do it in the future, but right now time is a big constraint for me
ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 1d
mine the older 2.1 design and scratch built. Hard to say because a lot of parts were grabbed from other projects
If I were starting today I’d just get a kit. The LDO kit is the standard and high quality but pricier.~1500 for 350mm. There’s the formbot kit as well, much cheaper (~800 for 350mm) but not as nice quality wise. Never used one of these kits but that’s the general sentiment on the forums now. West3d also has a kit builder, this is def the most expensive option but if you plan to install a bunch of mods this can save you some money buy bundling them at the beginning (but honestly if you’ve never built one before I’d start with the vanilla build)
Time wise it’s not too bad, sort of. I would say if you’re a tinkerer type person you could build it in a weekend, especially with a kit. However, you may spend quite a bit more time calibrating everything. Like the time from a box of shit to actually printing isn’t terrible, but the time to getting a beautiful dimensionally accurate print is potentially a bit more involved, especially before you get it printing fast (if you pursue such a thing)
That’s honestly the primary reason Bambu is destroying in terms of sales right now (plus aggressive marketing). They are shit bc they are consumer hostile, but they do make good equipment. You can get a solid print right from the first startup. You can with voron too tbf but it’s like comparing an iphone to desktop Linux: the former is easier to setup and has a lot of slick features for use, the latter can replicate almost all of them but takes a bit more time to get going (and because it’s open design can be taken much further once you get the hang of it, vorons can get amazing quality at incredibly fast speeds though tbf some of those mods to get truly fast can be pricy)
Alternatively look on their discord or somewhere like Craigslist/facebook marketplace. I see people sell LDO builds for like 6-900 a lot. Resale is tough because once built it’s a nightmare to ship so they drop value like crazy and then you can (hopefully) get one that’s at least printing decently
Croquette@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
I got gifted a Bambu P1S a few years ago, but customization is pretty limited.
I like the idea of the Voron and it's upgradability but the initial time investment was really high for me.
Thanks for sharing your information. I am a tinkering person, so I don't feel lost when doing projects like that, but since I am in Canada, sourcing parts was terrible when I looked a few years ago. The LDO kits seem pricy, but I will look for alternatives. But at least, the option's there.
ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1d
FWIW from what I’ve read the formbot kit seems to be pretty serviceable, almost 50% less and is still pretty good, though by most accounts I’ve seen the LDO kit is objectively better (for a significant premium)
Croquette@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 14h
The nice thing is that I can upgrade along the way, so even taking the formlab kit, I can slowly upgrade the parts if I want to.
bad1080@piefed.social · 8 pts · 1d
WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE IP HOLDERS!!!
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 134 pts · 2d
Even more pointless than DRM on movies.
https://all3dp.com/2/how-to-build-a-3d-printer-from-a-kit-or-from-scratch/
pivot_root@lemmy.world · 115 pts · 2d
Don't worry. It won't be long before possession of an unregistered 3D printer becomes a crime, too.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 28 pts · 2d
I thought this bill did that, but it looks like they crossed out the consumer circumvention clauses anyway.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 2d
That seems like a nightmare to set up.
Feels like people casually mocking car registration by pointing to the Hot Rod from Home Improvement.
I mean, sure. It can be done. But I failed to install a water cooling kit in my computer after a very long and harrowing weekend. I'm not fucking with this.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 2d
It more like mocking car registration because every neighborhood has a few people who can build you a car from scratch in a day, the city already has several thousand car factories that don't require registration, there's no mechanism to enforce registration, and the cost of building a new car is a few hundred dollars. The motivation for requiring registration is also to stop people from driving full speed into fast food restaurants is custom built murder buggys. Yeah, you don't want people to do that but it's not like it really happens all that often.
Building a 3d printer from a kit is different from building one from scratch. It's basically screwing parts together and plugging colored wires into matching slots.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 2d
How many cars does the city demand be produced each day? Cause my own city of Houston sees over 380k new cars sold annually.
Itty bitty ones, sure. And they take weeks to produce a working vehicle, of substandard quality.
Until you get pulled over
A plastic car that can go maybe a few hundred miles before falling apart if it's made perfectly.
You can build cars from a kit, too. But I'm not going to do that when I can buy a used Corolla or KIA for couch cushion money and drive it into the ground over the next fifteen years.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 1d
I'm not sure honestly sure what your point is, because you went a bit too far with the analogy.
This was about regulating 3d printers, not guns. A diy printer, a new drm printer and an old not-drm printer produce the same quality output.
A diy 3d printer is just as durable as a purchased one.
If your goal is to have an unregistered car, or in this case a drm free printer, the law seems silly when you can get one for cheaper than the "proper" one and have it out together in an afternoon if you have highschool level mechanical aptitude.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -17 pts · 1d
3D printers produce plastic crap.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 1d
Okay? What does that have to do with the drm mandate being easy to get around?
Is your point that it's okay to put unenforceable, easily bypassed restrictions on stuff if you think they're bad?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
You can get around the DRM mandate with a bicycle. That doesn't mean you've solved the underlying problem
saltesc@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2d
Same. Unfortunately I wasn't born blessed with those levels of autism. I see a complex project that'd be awesome for my hobby and I change hobbies.
stankmut@lemmy.world · 94 pts · 1d
You'd think with a title that says "California just passed a law", that it would actually be about California passing a law. It still has to go through the senate and then get signed by the governor.
Edit: The bill was passed in the Assembly back in May. This is a nearly 3 month old article.
Godort@lemmy.ca · 73 pts · 2d
How would this even be enforced?
Like, it seems like it would be a trivial process to just install a firmware package without the blocks.
sharkteethsandwich@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 65 pts · 2d
It's probably just an extra charge they can throw at you if your house ever gets searched. Fuck hobby enthusiasts I guess
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 13 pts · 2d
And small businesses.
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 2d
Not true (yet). Could be later, but for now, there's no crime for circumvention.
False@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 2d
Digital signatures and closed firmware.
Bahnd@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 2d
From Lewis Rossmans bit on this from this morning, an internet connection and third party AI scanning tools.
So its a whole bucket of "fuck that noise".
grue@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
It can't. They want to destroy 3D printers and Free Software in general entirely.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 1d
it's enforced by stopping most people from trying to get into making 3d printer software. Imagine if california made browser drm required: no more open source browsers
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 1d
Don't give them ideas
papalonian@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Why would that be the case? If I'm a programmer in New York, or Germany, why do I care if my open-source browser meets California's requirements? If there's any chance of litigation, can't you just slap "not for use in California" on it and call it a day?
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 1d
Do you think California is the first and last place this will happen?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/first-of-its-kind-law-in-new-york-could-block-3d-printers-from-making-guns
papalonian@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Say the entire country of America bans 3d printers without DRM, why would a German 3D printing enthusiast stop developing their firmware?
Note that I'm not saying these bans aren't bad. They certainly can and will cause harm to the community as a whole. But I don't see the argument of, "if it gets banned in x place, it goes away forever, for everyone". There are thousands of projects that are already illegal and exist without issue online. Piracy is illegal but still easily doable, it's already illegal in several states to 3D print certain gun parts but people still create the files and print them out.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1d
If that hobbyist is okay with it not being hosted on github or any other american infrastructure sure. And they have to hope EU laws dont follow suit. When GDPR passed, California adopted similar legislation. Why cant it happen in the reverse exactly? Its not like the EU wants 3d printed guns around. How will they be increasing gdp spend on defense if they allow their citizens to arm themselves cheaply and outside the authority of the state?
The EU already has considered laws banning gun stls. Why won't it require drm again?
LilBobbyTables@lemmy.today · 62 pts · 1d
I’d love to know how they expect printer manufacturers to do this, given all they do is read gcode. Do the legislation makers even know what a slicer is?
ramenshaman@lemmy.world · 74 pts · 1d
I went to a CA committee hearing (and I got to meet Louis Rossmann in the process) and I guarantee you the people supporting this bill and the committee voting on it generally have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
end_stage_ligma@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
Serious question: why do they feel like they are qualified to make decisions on it then? Like if I was in that position, I would defer to an expert committee or professional association.
thanksforreading@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 1d
What happens is they do defer to the expert. The expert is a plant by which ever lobbiest chose to sponsor the bill. I'm had correspondences with my government about fields I am intimately familiar with and their arguments about technical feasibility were given to them by their Big4 "expert". The problem is I know the field well enough to understand their expert is simply giving the opinion they were paid to give and the technical feasibility of the proposals take a back seat to the political desire of the people pushing the proposal.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 1d
Someone's "lobbying" them to make this decision.
ramenshaman@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Also Michael Blomberg has spent over $50M to push for this bill to pass.
Whitebrow@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 1d
Of course they know what a slicer is. Most of these people existed long before pre-cut loaves were sold at the stores.
enix@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 1d
Absolutely fuckin not
cley_faye@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
If it ever take forms, it will be absolutely unenforceable with how many devices currently operates. Aside from a ban on open hardware (good luck with that), nothing will happen.
Unfortunately, being technically impossible to enforce is of little consequence. It just becomes a convenient law to pull out if they want to hammer you down and you happen to have a 3D printer that don't have this built-in.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 2d
They've just admitted that it won't work. It will rely on a bank of banned designs which means anyone can just modify them until the algorithm doesn't recognize it as such while still being functional or simply make their own designs. Whoever finds a way to evade those restrictions will pass on the word.
Sucks that this will act as a push to lock down 3D printer firmware for everyone else though. Mass enshitification inbound. The only hope I see is that 3D printer manufacturers will simply get out of California as a result instead because the expense of developing such an algorithm and the risk of fines if it is not performing well enough are too great to be worth it.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 1d
Any such algorithm would be patched out of a jailbroken version of the firmware in minutes. 3D printers are already running on FOSS, so this is worse than useless. Anyone who wants to print a working gun will be able to do so trivially.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
That's what the bill is designed to stop.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d
I don't think they know what it's designed to stop. Seems like this is pretty clearly just a piece of conspicuous legislation passed just to make it look like they're actually doing something.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 47 pts · 1d
There's pedophiles roaming the streets and no one can afford healthcare or housing but yeah, lets make useless laws to try and regulate 3d printers....
barnaclebutt@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 1d
Roaming the streets? They are sitting in the fucking white house.
WudgieLore@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 22h
Trump fucks kids. Never forget
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
That was oddly specific.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 2h
I mean, it's a little bit of a funny example when "but child porn" is often the argument for removing all digital freedom.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1d
Two crimes can happen at once in different places
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 1d
This isn't going to do anything about crime.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
Well, no. It'll create a whole new class of crimes.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
Then why did you bring other crimes up? Sorry. But you have no idea how you sound. You directly said "there are these crimes, why are we wasting laws on these other crimes" and wonder why I responded as I did.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 1d
You currently can not fully 3D print a gun
Even if you could, distinguishing a gun from everything else is impossible. This is more about people using 3D printing for right to repair
GladiusB@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 1d
You don't know it's impossible. That's just insane to think that recognition software can tell that a person's seatbelt is on if that there is someone at their front door with a package or a bicycle means it's likely possible.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 1d
It literally is impossible. The only thing going to a 3d printer is a series of commands to the the various stepper motors and heating elements what to do. It would have to be capable of reversing this code to reconstruct the object being printed. A printer is not going to have enough processing power to do this if it's even possible at all.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
The computer it's connected to does
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 1d
My point was their priorities are completely out of wack, and also that this law is useless and shows that they have no idea how 3d printers work so they are wasting time on this to do literally zero good. If the concern is around preventing crime, this is not the way to do it.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 1d
Once again. Two crimes can happen at the same time. Prioritizing it is the authorities job. Not yours.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 1d
That's why I'm here commenting about it for free on the internet instead of being paid to prioritize things that actually matter over ineffective bullshit.
takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 1d
Except nobody is being prosecuted for this, in fact the only person that sits in prison, got moved to minimum security one and a pardon is being considered for her.
Senate just appointed the very person directly responsible for it to head the Department of Justice.
We are literally being run by pedophiles, or pedophile protectors at best and it couldn't be any clearer that there are two justice systems.
When the UH CEO was killed with 3D printed gun I remember being puzzled why trump, trump jr, musk and other members of the Epstein class became vocal about this, to me it seemed like a random murder. Now I understand that to them it was significant because member of their class was killed, this is also why musk was wearing his son as armor, because they were genuinely scared that their class war was firing back.
GladiusB@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1d
Whataboutism at it's finest. Two crimes can happen at the same time. Just because one crime "matters" and the others don't according to you, doesn't mean that they both shouldn't be enforced or examined.
Snapz@lemmy.world · 46 pts · 1d
OP why are you posting a 3 month old article with no updated information or that needed context that this was in the past? There was a discussion then.
It's almost like you are trying to upset people again for sport, because reddit broke your brain and you think internet points are important. Almost like that.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 22 pts · 1d
I think about this a lot.
Sometimes I learn about news that greatly affects my hobby but then notice it's like a month old.
And I wonder - so I share it? Do I sit with it? Do others know about it?
Assuming positive intent, OP thought the former.
Varesti@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 22h
First time I've seen this.
tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 1d
3 months isn't 3 years. First I heard of this
Rolive@discuss.tchncs.de · 43 pts · 1d
Good luck with that... 3D printers are not complicated and you could build one yourself if you wanted to.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 1d
Have a friend with one print you one.
outerspace@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 1d
The software might be complicated enough in the future that you would not be able to just make your own slicer with all the features, like we have with browsers now.
jonesey71@lemmus.org · 35 pts · 1d
One of the most common uses for 3d printers is for cosplay props. I wonder if the lawmakers considered how this infringes on the rights of people trying to print prop guns from their favorite video games or anime?
Brimstone@lemmy.ml · 30 pts · 1d
They don’t even know what cosplays is lol
jonesey71@lemmus.org · 3 pts · 19h
Yeah, sigh I know... It was facetious but an obvious argument I haven't seen pushed where there is actually some money behind it.
otacon239@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 1d
They don’t care
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 23h
they did not
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 12h
Well it's not like anyone in California needs lots of props.
brax@sh.itjust.works · 33 pts · 1d
California needs to start pushing laws to shut down hardware stores, department stores, shopping malls, and office supply stores since you can buy things in those places to also create makeshift weapons.
SippyCup@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
I have a mini mill in my garage. I makeb ghost firearms as a hobby.
I have a bit of experience with a mill, but even if I *didn't * these are not hard skills to learn yourself. A couple hundred bucks for a mini mill on marketplace and a few hunted bucks for a blank and some tooling and anybody could be making ghost guns in their living room.
zabadoh@ani.social · 1 pts · 2h
I had never heard of mini CNC mills.
Now I want one.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1d
Isn't California the state where you need to be 18 just to by spray paint?
I think we are already headed in that direction
skibidi@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Many states have similar laws for things you can inhale to get high.
apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 2d
Fuck this country.
KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 26 pts · 1d
I can't wait for the EU to eagerly adopt this like they do for a lot of these dogshit US decisions.
demizerone@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 1d
This what happens when a state is controlled by idiots. I wish we had opposition party that were not a bunch of boot licking freaks.
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 23h
not just idiots. selfish fucks and idiots.
Dearth@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Idiots who don't understand any industry other than public service, being useful idiots for the oligarchs that run the mega corps of the 5th largest economy in the world.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 1d
The first thing they need to add to their DRM thing is those flexible dragons that have taken over half the booths at a local comic con. That and The Rock's head.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 8 pts · 1d
The dragon and Rock's head is the Hello World of the 3D printer world.
Slashme@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19h
I thought that was Benchy.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · -5 pts · 1d
Why? They are great.
nullspace@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 1d
For a first print, yeah. This is more me bitching about the artist alley of all my local cons being filled with 3D printed garbage than it is an endorsement of terrible DRM practices.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 1d
No really what it is is it's what people want it's what people like it's what people enjoy so of course they're being made. You have to remember only a small percentage of people own 3D printers but a lot of people really like the stuff that's made from 3D printers. So they're not being marketed towards you they're being marketed towards everybody else. And they sell really well.
7101334@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
You're describing 3D kitsch, not 3D art
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 1d
I never said 3d art. I said there is a place for these. They were created by artists and some are absolutely amazing.
7101334@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 10h
This was a conversation about artist's alley which is for, you know, art. Not kitsch slop. And no, the world really doesn't have a place for more useless plastic garbage.
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 1d
3d prints that aren't even a person's own design have no place being in a line up of artists
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 1d
They're like 3D printer 101.
This is like seeing baby's first print and they're trying to sell it.
ceenote@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 2d
Has a 3d printed gun been used in a crime? Ever?
snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 2d
Ask Luigi Mangione
obvs@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 2d
Did Luigi Mangione do anything wrong?
News to me.
Drusas@fedia.io · 13 pts · 2d
Not all illegal activities are morally wrong.
nieminen@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1d
Just like how not all law abiding citizens are moral.
FundMECFS@piefed.zip · 2 pts · 1d
Very true based. Also happy cake day :)
Drusas@fedia.io · 2 pts · 1d
Thank you!
pivot_root@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 2d
Very good point. Planting evidence of a crime is itself a crime. /joke
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 1d
No because it isn't possible to make a working gun with a 3D printer
However it is possible to make a gun with a few supplies from a hardware store
FurryMemesAccount@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 2d
Brian Thompson ?
Truly the type of people that need saving.
Dookieman12@piefed.social · 2 pts · 20h
Very few. The ATF's definition of "ghost gun" also includes ordinary firearms that have had the serial number filed off (which is a crime to do). The vast majority of crimes committed with "ghost guns" are committed with those; ordinary guns with the serial numbers scratched off
echodot@feddit.uk · 19 pts · 1d
So they except this is basically an impossible task. Essentially they're just going to check that the algorithm can detect the test examples, and then anything beyond that is an acceptably low level of evasion apparently.
grue@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 15h
They just want to destroy open source firmware. They hate freedom from corporate control, not guns.
rmrf@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 1d
In the same way you can buy all the stuff to make a bomb without ending up on a list, but if you do it the stupid way you're going to get the SWAT team at your door.
The 3d printer firmware is bullshit outright IMO, but this seems like the most sober-minded attempt. NY's law on the other hand is a fat lol
echodot@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 19h
Anyone who was a serious threat is by definition not going to do it the stupid way anybody who gets swatted is an idiot and probably wasn't a threat to begin with, except to themselves.
It's already illegal to shoot people so why is it more illegal to shoot people with a plastic gun?
rmrf@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 14h
I agree, yet people get caught. This makes simply authorizes that, which I'm not inherently against. All I'm saying is, of all the things in the world, this isn't the absolute worst thing that could happen and at least it isn't (currently) being used by that state as a pretext for even more surveillance.
It isn't more illegal to shoot people with a plastic gun; if anything it's less illegal because you don't need to lie on a form about your status to obtain a gun.
I think your arguing with what you think I'm saying instead if what I actually said. I believe we're in agreement with different nuanced takes that affect that agreement. I agree this is dumb and a bad precedent that will likely be ineffective (just like virtually all other punitive preventative measures). I still think it could be worse.
TL; DR: this law to me feels more along the lines of "let's stop giving away guns at candy shops" than "let's completely fix everything all at once" It's sober minded and an attempt at appeasing their constituency. I disagree with it, but it could be worse and probably won't hurt.
HerbGrower@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 20h
Can I have 12 bottles of bleach please?
rmrf@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 57m
And some ... as well as a map to ...'s house, please?
bagsy@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 1d
Are we even fucking free any more?
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 1d
ramenshaman@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 1d
Just configured my router to block my new printer. Looking up how to set up Linux to block my slicer. Fuck this sucks.
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
Airgapping is the way
ramenshaman@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
I'm not ready for that amount of inconvenience. If things get worse then I'll do it.
thejml@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 2d
Soooooooo, go buy a new printer now is what I'm hearing.
deacon@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
I went and got a Snapmaker U1 when I first started seeing rumblings of this a few months ago and I can’t recommend it enough.
I bought it for the peace of mind, but I’m now quite into 3D printing so beware.
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 1d
DIY 3D printers aren't that difficult. It's just two or three motors, a motion controller and a hot nozzle for most plastic printing. Replace the hot nozzle with a really epic laser for metal parts or possibly a stick welder. Even better with lithographic printing minus the really toxic fumes of the material. Take a really bright high resolution screen or maybe a projector and one motor and you got yourself a lithographic printer. Are you going to compete directly with cutting edge printers? Probably not. Will you still be able to make shit that works? Most likely after some tinkering.
electric_nan@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 1d
California also wants firearms manufacturers to develop a system that stamps your serial number on bullet casings when fired.
CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1d
Lmfao, as if machining gun parts isn't alreafy so easy it's problematic.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
And the primer. They want the firing pin to stamp the serial.
electric_nan@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 1d
Haha yeah. I think they know it isn't possible. Just trying to ban people from having guns one way or another. Disarm the cops and the other Nazis and then we can talk about mine.
Craccoon@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
Exactly. They've got another thing coming if they think I'm going to disarm while these fascist fuckers are acting up.
rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 19h
I guess we're returning to reprap then. That'll actually be good for innovation, I think.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 12h
In the short term i think people will just drive out of state, like they already do for actual guns. CA gun laws are aimed at the working class, thanks Reagan.
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 1d
Should put the tracker in the filament, since most ghost guns just get a solvent bath when they're done now.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
They should put trackers on people instead
Uranus_Hz@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1d
They already have those. They’re called “cell phones”
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 12h
Criminals have easy access to real guns, they won't bother with printing plastic ones. A terrorist will just go to a place where they don't monitor to print them.
AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 12h
In case anyone is wondering why something so idiotic: The destruction of 3D printing: Bloomberg is behind it - YouTube
Of course this is not something a rag like the register and a fraudulent "Cybersecurity reporter" Connor Jones would tell you, but instead trying to actively hide from you. Even thought the evidence is right there. They'd rather tell you some stupid story.
This is yet another mad plutocrat meddling in democracy and neoliberalism and pundits providing some nonsense explanation to distract people.
FundMECFS@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 1d
(1) Use DRM 3d printer to print copyleft non-DRM 3d printer
(2) Profit??
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 1d
The bill is sponsored by a company selling gun detection technology
village604@adultswim.fan · 4 pts · 1d
You don't even need to print anything. Just run Klipper instead of the stock firmware.
Professorozone@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
Guess Californians need to grab an old printer real quick and hang on to it.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
It won't just affect Californians. Printer manufacturers will make one model for everyone, and it will comply with this law.
Professorozone@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23h
I friggin hate this authoritarian shit. And California no less. Sounds like some civil disobedience is called for.
Like what if I want to print a play gun for cosplay? Sorry, you live in a free country. Go buy a real one instead. And worse, someone might want to print a shape very similar to a gun but completely unrelated. Nope.
Impractical_Island@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 7h
Shit, now how will I manufacture illegal sex toys and sex toy accessories in a covert, anonymous fashion? Woe is me....
W3dd1e@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 11h
This is so stupid. This is written by people who don’t understand 3D printing. This will catch nothing but fake guns that don’t work because they were printed in one solid piece, it won’t catch all the little pieces that you assemble afterwards.
CalypsoGirl@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 1d
by July 2028?? Welp that gives DIY gun-making enthisiasts plenty of time & advance notice to crank out as many guns possible 🤦🏼♀️
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 1d
Not that is matters as this law has zero impact on guns
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 1d
Surely you're not suggesting people not update the firmware on their already purchased and perfectly functional 3D printer.
herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 12h
This feels idiotic?
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 2 pts · 2h
So now you can be a cyberpunk black market tech peddler for real?
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
guess i should be happy mine predates that shit. although its currently bugged enough to fuck up basic prints available online right now.
Jiral@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 7h
Oh no, don't. Firmware can't be flashed /s
smh
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 2h
There are devices now that have a SoC that's completely locked down at the factory, although maybe none are 3D printers. It deserves more attention as the massive threat to digital freedom that it is.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 14h
Let's get rid of, or use less, plastic! No, says coffee pods and 3d printers.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 13h
While I get what your saying, I do think 3D printers reduce waste as they allow people to fix there own stuff
spongeborgcubepants@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 8h
Yup, plastic parts on headset broke. Could not wear it in a useable manner anymore, taping did not hold.
Printed replacement parts (which I could not buy anywhere), still using it today. Good as new.
3D printing is a blessing if you're not just using it to print flex-dragons.
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · -6 pts · 1d
yermaw@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 1d
It wont be about the guns. Its about control.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 1d
Yes, stopping gun crime is how they sell it; protecting corporate profits by preventing home-made repairs and prototyping is how they will use it.
holy_scroller@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 1d
With that logic you should have mandatory reporting of anyone entering a hardware store. Neither of these is a real problem.
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 1d
It's more that identifying a gun from a million other vaguely gun-like shapes, as well as completely non-gunlike shapes that are in fact guns... It's an insane question to expect any software to solve, even an AI with a whole datacenter devoted to this one problem wouldn't even begin to approach solving it.
cy888@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
Pop tarts may need to be banned
kent_eh@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 1d
You can't 100% 3D print a working gun that won't be as dangerous to the user as it is to the target.
You still need some actual metal gun parts to make it do gun things properly.
cloudshouter@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 1d
No, most people realize that it’s a nonsense argument based off a couple action movies. Same reason they banned butterfly knives and nunchucks in many states despite the fact that you can have any other knife and say a lock in a sock. It’s hype based pearl clutching. Why sneak a pos plastic gun through a metal detector when the better option that is already used is to wait for the target outside, or to just run in guns blazing? The whole concept of “ghost guns” is the same way. Criminals already are not getting tracked down by serial numbers. Even without the 2A arguments though, this is a stupid thing to put on 3d printers.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
3D printed guns do not "get past metal detectors." This is not nuance. It's not a matter of techicalities. You just told a bold faced lie, and you did it speficially to try to fear monger.
Printed guns still require metal springs, metal pins, metal bolts, metal barrels, and metal ammunition.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
I don't think Tetsuya Yamagami used 3d printed parts. This has nothing to do with making things safe.
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
Printing a gun without a license can be and likely is currently illegal. You can just use traditional manufacturing methods to do the same thing anyways. It's not rocket science. The issue is the control over people to maybe prevent them from doing what you're saying. We could install cameras in everyone's house to make super sure they're not breaking any laws. I think you now see the problem. More control, more safety, less freedom. At the end of the day there's a simple way around any of these control measures and all we're doing is giving up freedom for nothing.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1d
*Highly dependant on location, in much of the US it is completely legal, you just can't sell it.
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
I'll have to double check this.. usually weapons manufacturing is pretty well controlled. Then again there's always a way. Like no one thought that fertilizer sales should be monitored until the Unabomber.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1d
https://legallyexplained.com/is-it-legal-to-build-your-own-gun/
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
The US it is federally legal to manufacture your own firearm. There are some state level restrictions depending on which one of those you're in. In the rest of the world it's probably considerably more regulated, but then again in the rest of the world it'll be tougher to get your hands on the all the other parts you'd need as well.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · -13 pts · 1d
Good, means less lunatics waving around guns. No objection here.
To the people bitching, it's a moot point when you can buy a gun at virtually every wallmart in the country.
village604@adultswim.fan · 4 pts · 1d
Be honest. What percentage of gun crimes do you think 3D printed guns are?
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Probably zero.
I just like the idea of there being less guns on the street.
I also like the idea of access to guns being highly regulated.
village604@adultswim.fan · 5 pts · 1d
I don't disagree with you.
But this type of law is the exact same as the age verification laws.
There's a plausible sounding risk, but if you dig deeper it's always the government reducing freedoms in a way that doesn't really help the stated goals.
325 3d printed guns were seized in 2024. That's a drop in the ocean.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
What's wrong with age verification laws, exactly?
village604@adultswim.fan · 3 pts · 1d
They sell it as wanting to protect children, but what they really want is to be able to track everything you do on your device, because the verification will happen at the OS level.
It's something that sounds sensible at first. Of course it would be great to be able to prevent children from going certain places online and interacting with predators.
But what's actually happening is everyone is sacrificing their right to privacy for pretty much nothing, because anyone determined enough can get around any safety measure. And both kids and criminals excel at creativity getting around blocks.
Not to mention that a lot of the verification happens through private companies, who shouldn't be trusted with it.
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 22h
Oh, I thought this was age verification to buy a firearm. But you mean age verification laws for online pornography.
Yeah fuck that shit.
village604@adultswim.fan · 1 pts · 21h
Ah, duh on my part. I should have specified.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
This is stupid easy to bypass plus you still need metal parts to make it work
Guns are actually really easy to make and can be assembled from parts found at a local hardware store. If you want something fancier you could even mill a gun out of metal
Hawanja@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 1d
Yeah but a right wing incel maniac trying to get a gun to go blow away a high school isn't going to know how to mill his own gun. He might download one and use his father's 3D printer to make one.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1d
You can't use a 3D printer to make a working gun and it isn't possible to distinguish a gun from anything else.
This is security theater that hurts the general public and small businesses while giving yet more power to the wealthy
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
How does it hurt the general public, exactly? By not letting them shoot each other?
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
Because mass surveillance is bad? I don't want my printer to send everything I print to private companies
Even if you are somehow ok with the surveillance, there are still issues with copywrite. I'm pretty sure it would be pretty easy for some large company to seal ideas or to prevent you from making replacement parts for stuff that you bought and paid for
Hawanja@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 22h
I am ok with someone not being able to print out a gun and then blow people away with it.
And if mass surveillance bothers you, then you should get rid of your cell phone.
Also, private companies already have every bit of information about you. How do you think Google and Facebook and Twitter make their money?
Yeah but not everything I leagally buy and pay for can be used to murder people. For example, if I print out a battery cover for my remote control I then cannot go to a hotel room in Las Vegas and massacre 50 people at a country music festival with it.
echodot@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 1d
Won't they just use his father's gun? That's what they always seem to do.
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · -41 pts · 2d
Its not like americans can be trusted not to make their own bang sticks so fair enough.
arctanthrope@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 2d
not much more difficult to make a much more effective gun out of stock metal (or so I've heard), but they don't mandate government surveillance on the personal property of every person who owns a welding torch
graycube@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 2d
Although metal working requires skill, but downloading and 3d printing stuff not so much.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 2d
From what I've seen, 3d printing a firearm isn't worth the trouble. Especially when you can get 80%'s and finish them with a drill press.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 2d
80% Glock frames only require simple hand tools.
SolSerkonos@piefed.social · 13 pts · 2d
That kind of metal working? Just to make a dogshit pipe gun that is mostly likely unsafe for the user too? Really doesn't require a ton of skill. Probably more than using a user friendly 3D printer but probably less than a fiddly one.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 1d
Making a full on machine gun is literally one of the original cottage industries. They're hard to design but the actual fabrication can be so dumbed down that you can make it out of non un-common household tools with minimal skill.
Some of the tricky bits are making the weapon fire slower, so it doesn't jam or get so hot rounds fire before they're actually in the chamber. Or just keeps firing because releasing the trigger wasn't enough to keep the recoil from keeping it going.
If your goal is to give everyone in the UK too young, old or woman to draft a machine gun to make the Germans regret invading, then a horde of cockney 8 year olds with uncontrolled machine guns and poor trigger discipline is certainly a choice.
architect@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 1d
I think people think this kind of metalwork is difficult. It’s really not.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 2d
Getting a proper industrially manufactured firearm has never been easier.
The paranoia around Ghost Guns is more an expression of the gun regulation movement's impotence.
If you want a gun in this country, and you've got more than a couple hundred dollars, you can get one.